Landlords petition Prayut to kill new tenant protections

[Cadbury]

5 hours ago, webfact said:

Landlords petition Prayut to kill new tenant protections

Instead of petitioning Prayut the landlords should be filling the fattest envelopes they can find. That normally works to get what you want with Thai government legislation.

[tropo]

57 minutes ago, pookiki said:

I wish it was as easy at that. Residential electricity can be billed under three different methods - two are graduated scales based on usage and one is based on 'time' of usage. Water is billed on a graduated scale based on usage. In some apartment buildings, there are ONLY individual meters for each room. However, most apartment buildings have a 'master' meter for billing purposes for water and electricity and then tenants are billed by individual usage.  There is nothing in the law that speaks to the maximum charge. The law says that tenants are to pay the same rates as applies to residences.  There is no such thing as  'normal' price.   In the case of a master meter situation, the only thing the landlord can do is to average the normal cost associated with usage. This method will punish those who conserve and reward those who don't.

You're needlessly making it more complicated than it really is. An average per kWh can be calculated from the master meter and applied to all individual meters. Of course, that's too obvious and simple and doesn't give landlords any reason to add a surcharge.

[moontang]

10 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Obviously, when you allow "service charges" and the like to pad bills, there is no real savings. The only answer is prices being dictated by a central authority. Landlords NEVER have enough profit to satisfy them.

Rent control has helped few, and hurt many, while keeping buildings in disrepair.  My savings is 6%+....it counts.

[Sir Dude]

Quote

Business operators on Monday urged Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha to cancel a Consumer Protection Board measure implemented on May 1 to protect customers from being overcharged on utility fees by hostels, apartments or rented rooms in residential buildings.

Says it all.....how dare they take away our right to scam/overcharge people as we see fit. Give me a break. The consumer is way long overdue for a little reasonable protection here.

[Bassosa]

3 minutes ago, Sir Dude said:

Says it all.....how dare they take away our right to scam/overcharge people as we see fit. Give me a break. The consumer is way long overdue for a little reasonable protection here.

Such nonsense. Why sign up to a lease if you feel cheated?

 

If you don't like the landlord's terms and conditions.....don't rent!

[DrTuner]

Not surprisingly they are not petitioning for faster judicial processes.

[tropo]

4 hours ago, clokwise said:

Our apartment has lowered the electricity rates, however there is a new "maintenance fee" ostensibly for the cleaning and security services. It all balances out around the same amount I guess.

Of course, they can't incorporate all peripheral services into the rent and be done with it.

 

Here's the most ridiculous extra service I've ever heard of... I was looking for a house to rent. The access road to one house I looked at was private and they wanted me to pay an additional 2000 baht per month to use the access road to this house. The house was way overpriced as it was and I would have had to pay an additional 2000 baht per month to get to it LOL. Believe it or not, the owner was NOT Thai.

 

Hopefully, they'll send these 60 idiots on their way.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Bassosa said:

Such nonsense. Why sign up to a lease if you feel cheated?

 

If you don't like the landlord's terms and conditions.....don't rent!

Some of these tenants are already signed up and can't just leave... as the landlords fiddle with various costs.

 

My first landlord in Pattaya tried to justify an inflated electric bill by saying the additional cost will cover maintenance costs on electrical equipment. The more you use them, the more you pay to maintain them. In actual fact it was bs because I left because he refused to fix an air conditioner that was guzzling electricity... to the point that my electric bills were nearly 5000 baht per month... and that was in a small apartment nearly 10 years ago.

Edited May 28, 2018 by tropo

[Destiny1990]

They are correct 2 months deposit for a furniture room is a standard practice.

Also if u sign a year rental agreement and u walk out after 3 months then u loose ur deposit this is the case in every country in the word so why not in Thailand?

[klauskunkel]

I am renting out several properties. All my tenants pay their electricity bill directly to the MEA and their water/maintenance bill directly to the Condo. All my units are rented out to Thai people, same tenants since 10 years. 

[The Deerhunter]

16 hours ago, Bassosa said:

It's a silly law.

 

Landlords should be able to charge whatever costs at whatever rates as long as the tenant is aware of them and has agreed to them.

 

It's a free market. Overcharging landlords will quickly find their properties empty, wouldn't they?

 

A free market and free choice is a beautiful thing.

 

Don't like it? Move out. Don't act like you're a victim.

 

 

It is not always the practical option to say "Vote with your feet."   Not everyone has those options.  Sometimes tenancy is linked to a job or there are other complications like shortage of rental in a giver area, or finding another deposit or bond when the current landlord still has yours.   A bit like saying "if slaves do not like the slavery, they can always leave."     Why should a landlord charge power or water out at more than it costs?  If he had taken the trouble to lay in separate meters for utilities to each unit, it would not be his problem.   

[LukKrueng]

17 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Its probably there so that unscrupulous landlords cannot evict quickly on trumped up reasons !

yet the tenant can just cancel the contract and move out with no notice and no reason at all....

[Lupatria]

Interesting to watch the outcome to see who makes the rules here: a bunch of greedy untouchables or a 'government' famous for back paddling? Maybe it was all a big misunderstanding again.

[anon537687643]

Ah the leeches are coming out demanding protection for their activities


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[LukKrueng]

26 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

It is not always the practical option to say "Vote with your feet."   Not everyone has those options.  Sometimes tenancy is linked to a job or there are other complications like shortage of rental in a giver area, or finding another deposit or bond when the current landlord still has yours.   A bit like saying "if slaves do not like the slavery, they can always leave."     Why should a landlord charge power or water out at more than it costs?  If he had taken the trouble to lay in separate meters for utilities to each unit, it would not be his problem.   

the utility bills are under the landlords' name and responsibility. If anything goes wrong, a bill not paid or repairs needed, the landlord has to cover the costs. If a landlord installs a private meter to the units, the cost of the meters+upkeep is on the landlord as well. So basically what happens is that a landlord is actually a middleman between the suppliers and final customers. In other countries utilities are usually registered under the tenants' name and the landlord has no responsibility over any misconduct of the tenants in regards to utility providers. 

[Johnnyondaspot]

17 hours ago, Bassosa said:

It's a silly law.

 

Landlords should be able to charge whatever costs at whatever rates as long as the tenant is aware of them and has agreed to them.

 

It's a free market. Overcharging landlords will quickly find their properties empty, wouldn't they?

 

A free market and free choice is a beautiful thing.

 

Don't like it? Move out. Don't act like you're a victim.

 

 

The poor don't have a choice or the resources to 'just move out'.  It's a really simple world when you have the means to pivot away but that's not the case for many.  A truly 'free market' without any regulations always hurts the poor, who have little say.   It's one function of government (the institution representing all of the citizens) to protect the most vulnerable (elderly, children, poor).  But thanks for the easy solution.   You can always tell when someone doesn't have a grasp of everything,  they consider everything 'easy'.

Edited May 29, 2018 by Johnnyondaspot

[yellowboat]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

It was impractical to follow the new requirement to charge no more then the electricity and tap-water fees charged by the authorities to the business, they said, because an individual apartment’s monthly bill cycle date might not match the dates on the bill from power and water authorities.

That is so stupid.  Other countries do not have the idiotic practice .   Have rented apartments all over Asia and only Thai landlords practice this idiocy .    It is the only practical and fair thing the junta has done. 

 

Rarely does a utility jump exponentially in the final month of the rental agreement.  They just want to cheat and make it legal.  Have very little respect for Thai landlords compared to those in China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Cambodia, Malaysia and Singapore. 

[impulse]

57 minutes ago, The Deerhunter said:

It is not always the practical option to say "Vote with your feet."   Not everyone has those options.  Sometimes tenancy is linked to a job or there are other complications like shortage of rental in a giver area, or finding another deposit or bond when the current landlord still has yours.   A bit like saying "if slaves do not like the slavery, they can always leave."     Why should a landlord charge power or water out at more than it costs?  If he had taken the trouble to lay in separate meters for utilities to each unit, it would not be his problem.   

 

Not even close on the slavery analogy.  A) Slaves didn't sign on for it and B) Slaves can't leave without risk of punishment or death.

 

And, by that same line of reasoning, restaurants should charge 7 baht for a bottled water, and one baht for a bowl of rice because that's what it costs them? 

 

Landlords are in business to make money.  If their policies are honestly detailed on the lease agreement, renters have the option of renting from them, or looking elsewhere.   If they're smart, they look at the total cost, and not just the base rent, or the power and water rate.

 

Personally, I like the idea of a lower base rent rate, and charging people more if they consume more.  The alternative is to raise the rent for everyone (even if it's under the guise of a "service fee").

 

Edit:  I would add that I pay a premium for power at my place.  But I don't feel too bad about it because my co-workers who live nearby and pay the lower utility rate are in the same square footage at 2-4 times my rental rate.  So I'd ask... Who's getting the better deal?

Edited May 29, 2018 by impulse

[NanLaew]

Landlords and tenants in Thailand.

 

All a bit like the lords and serfs of yore.

 

When the serfs get a bit stroppy, the lords go running to the king of the castle.

 

Serfdom is the status of many peasants under feudalism, specifically relating to manorialism. It was a condition of bondage, which developed primarily during the High Middle Ages in Europe and lasted in some countries until the mid-19th century.

 

Only until the mid-19th century? Looks like this wiki needs an edit, no?

[NanLaew]

12 minutes ago, impulse said:

Landlords are in business to make money.  If their policies are honestly detailed on the lease agreement, renters have the option of renting from them, or looking elsewhere.   If they're smart, they look at the total cost, and not just the base rent, or the power and water rate.

Spoken like a true lord of the manor! But you lost it with the "honestly detailed on the lease agreement" bit.

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Landlords and tenants in Thailand.

 

All a bit like the lords and serfs of yore.

 

When the serfs get a bit stroppy, the lords go running to the king of the castle.

 

Serfdom is the status of many peasants under feudalism, specifically relating to manorialism. It was a condition of bondage, which developed primarily during the High Middle Ages in Europe and lasted in some countries until the mid-19th century.

 

Only until the mid-19th century? Looks like this wiki needs an edit, no?

 

Bad analogy,  Serfs were born to the land, and had no right to leave the land where they were born.  Thai people are free to move out of their digs any time they don't like the terms and conditions.

[impulse]

3 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Spoken like a true lord of the manor! But you lost it with the "honestly detailed on the lease agreement" bit.

 

I pay exactly what my lease agreement says I should pay.

[robertson468]

So many sour puss people on this website, so listen to the other side of the story.  My Wife is a landlord and in addition to paying for the electricity and water, she needs to pay for the maintenance of the swimming pool, the lovely tropical garden we have and for the communal lights so that Guests can see their way safely to their Villas.  She also had to buy the transformer and to maintain all the electricity lines to the Villas.  Sure, there are some landlords who will overcharge, but that should be evident on the Contract of Rental.  If you don't have one, more fool you.  There also needs to be a clause to evict Guests who are breaking the law (drugs taking) and causing premeditaded damage to your property.  My Sister-in-Law, also a landlord had one female guest who picked up the flat screen tv and smashed it on top of a glass topped table, destroying both items beyone repair.  She had had a disagreement with her boyfriend about how much of an allowance he should give her!  My Wife had a long term Guest who was heavily in to coke (not the fizzy drink) and despite being warned of his behaviour three times persisted in using it in her Villa.  He was told to leave, or that she would ask the Police to help him to leave.............he left!

 

So you see folks, it's not all one sided and there are many landlords who seek to the the right thing by their guests and provide them with a good service, at a fair price and to have a lovely environment in which to live.

[moontang]

They are free to charge whatever rent they want, but not allowed to jack up rates on a utility with monopoly powers.  Now, they will no longer be punished for using energy efficient appliances and keeping them in good order.  What is wrong with that?  Be up front and put it in the rent.  Might be nice to avoid the guys who only wear their undies and occasionally a wife beater, unplug their refrigerators, and keep their places sweltering hot, because of high electric rates.  They find some dead bodies after heat waves....often the a/c is not on.

 

The whole low rent, utility ripoff thing seems illogical.  An apartment buildings mission is to provide comfortable housing.  But they want to penalize people for keeping comfortable.  A business has a social responsibility to conserve energy, yet they are penalized for using efficient, (often thai made) appliances.  March and April are the most costly months to live, but this system makes them much more expensive...it is all a fool's game.  

Edited May 29, 2018 by moontang

[robblok]

16 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

I can understand your libertarian viewpoint.  What do you think about self-help evictions?  Do you think they should be illegal?  Do you think landlords should be allowed to steal your property from your unit if you are behind on your rent?  What about refusing to refund security deposits unless the tenant obtains a court judgment?  No, those aren't libertarian-approved actions and change in the law was necessary to make the market more level between landlord and tenant, and ban obviously illegal eviction tactics.

No that is totally wrong that they can help themselves to a tennants property.

 

However the change that they can't charge extra for electricity is a bit crazy. Because they had an amount of money they could get for their rooms based on rent and electricity. So they could lower the rent but get it back on electricity and many did so keeping the rent low. Now all of a sudden they can't charge for the electricity and lose out. That is totally unfair they should be allowed to raise the rent then. 

 

I don't own property like that but i see it from a business owners point of view a tenant agrees to the terms and then the state changes it.  Had the property owner known this he would never have kept his rent this low. I dislike the making money on electricity but with it came a lower rent. 

 

 

[moontang]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

No that is totally wrong that they can help themselves to a tennants property.

 

However the change that they can't charge extra for electricity is a bit crazy. Because they had an amount of money they could get for their rooms based on rent and electricity. So they could lower the rent but get it back on electricity and many did so keeping the rent low. Now all of a sudden they can't charge for the electricity and lose out. That is totally unfair they should be allowed to raise the rent then. 

 

I don't own property like that but i see it from a business owners point of view a tenant agrees to the terms and then the state changes it.  Had the property owner known this he would never have kept his rent this low. I dislike the making money on electricity but with it came a lower rent. 

 

 

They were able to add a service fee out of the blue, so it isn't like we were locked in to the artificially low rent.

[hansnl]

19 hours ago, Bassosa said:

It's a silly law.

 

Landlords should be able to charge whatever costs at whatever rates as long as the tenant is aware of them and has agreed to them.

 

It's a free market. Overcharging landlords will quickly find their properties empty, wouldn't they?

 

A free market and free choice is a beautiful thing.

 

Don't like it? Move out. Don't act like you're a victim.

 

 

Oh dear, a free market idol.

What about reasonable periods of time to cancel a contract, for both sides?

What about a reasonable price for water and electricity, for example the official rates plus 10%?

What about some restraint on landlord's antics?

And yes, reasonable powers for the landlord to do something about idiotic renters.

As it was before, landlords could do anything without any restraint.

Charging 10 baht for a kilowatt/h 8s slightly over the top if the rate charged is around 4.5 baht.

Don't you think?

[Media1]

21 hours ago, sweatalot said:

Not surprised. They want to continue overcharging.

Yes there  crooks crying. Can't carry the burden sell your room bye

[Media1]

21 hours ago, overherebc said:

I know, how can they continue to rip people off when the law doesn't seem to be on their side.

Maybe have to sell a Benz or better/worse still use it as a taxi.

Yes  mafia style Thais  preying on the weak

[Media1]

21 hours ago, smedly said:

 

have to agree, the billing cycle is different   

 

what a complete pile of nonsense - if it really bothers them that much then alter the dates so they are aligned 

if you can't afford the billing cycle sell your house and move on. Embeciles lol.