dick dasterdly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 MANY young girls are just as interested in sporty/adventurous activities as young boys, but girl scouts/guides/brownies are (to a certain extent) directed towards more traditionally 'feminine' activities via girl scouts/brownies. Perhaps this is no longer the case (?), but it makes sense to have one 'Scout' movement IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 5 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: More members? More funding? Do you know anything about this subject at all? http://time.com/5270638/mormon-church-boy-scouts-cut-ties/ Religious zealots depart the Scout movement - in the long run this will be a good thing for the Scouts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Religious zealots depart the Scout movement - in the long run this will be a good thing for the Scouts. The Boy Scouts aren't a religious organization. You would never know what another member's religion was unless you asked them. The loss of those scouts will be a great loss to the BSA and frankly to those scouts as well, cuz it sounds like what the Mormons are cooking up is nothing like scouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: More members? More funding? Do you know anything about this subject at all? http://time.com/5270638/mormon-church-boy-scouts-cut-ties/ I'm not sure why the mormons leaving (because the scouts no longer fits their religious ideals) is a bad thing? But I take your point that it means a loss of funding. Kids don't join these organisations for the religious element, they join because they want to be part of a group and enjoy the activities. Religion should play no part. Edited May 30, 2018 by dick dasterdly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, dick dasterdly said: I'm not sure why the mormons leaving (because the scouts no longer fits their religious ideals) is a bad thing? But I take your point that it means a loss of funding. Kids don't join these organisations for the religious element, they join because they want to be part of a group and enjoy the activities. Religion should pay no part. Religion plays no part in scouting. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, lannarebirth said: The Boy Scouts aren't a religious organization. You would never know what another member's religion was unless you asked them. The loss of those scouts will be a great loss to the BSA and frankly to those scouts as well, cuz it sounds like what the Mormons are cooking up is nothing like scouting. I'm not about to get into the original intention of the boy scouts and the religious subtext, because it's irrelevant nowadays. I agree that it's a shame (for the mormon children) that the mormon parents are withdrawing their funding because it no longer fits their religious ideals. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 "The Mormon church said Tuesday it will sever all ties with the Boy Scouts of America at the end of next year and place its remaining 425,000 boys into a gospel-focused youth program it is developing. The move ends a nearly century-old relationship that was based on their shared values." From your own link. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: Religion plays no part in scouting. The Mormons clearly have some thoughts on that. But hey-ho. How many Mormans, how many girls? Doubling the number of kids able to join the Scouts has to be a good thing. You are clearly very much in the Pro-Scout camp (pun intended) and rightly so, the Scouts are a fabulous movement. Why then you have a problem with girls begin able to participate in Scouting with the boys is beyond me. Scouting is a fabulous opportunity for kids - now its a fabulous opportunity for all kids, with the exception of a few Mormons who don't want their kids to share this fabulous opportunity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 hour ago, bristolboy said: you seem more like a minion of uncontrolled confusion. Alas my dear. Who isn't these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said: The Mormons clearly have some thoughts on that. But hey-ho. How many Mormans, how many girls? Doubling the number of kids able to join the Scouts has to be a good thing. You are clearly very much in the Pro-Scout camp (pun intended) and rightly so, the Scouts are a fabulous movement. Why then you have a problem with girls begin able to participate in Scouting with the boys is beyond me. Scouting is a fabulous opportunity for kids - now its a fabulous opportunity for all kids, with the exception of a few Mormons who don't want their kids to share this fabulous opportunity. I don't have any philosophicalproblem with boys and girls being in the BSA. My problem mainly stems from my observation that when women join previously male focused groups the entire dynamic changes to the perspective of feminine sensibilities. I'd like to see boys allowed to be boys. They never are when girls are present. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 3 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: I don't have any philosophicalproblem with boys and girls being in the BSA. My problem mainly stems from my observation that when women join previously male focused groups the entire dynamic changes to the perspective of feminine sensibilities. I'd like to see boys allowed to be boys. They never are when girls are present. I'm not sure where you grew up but when I was a lad the presence of girls never hindered the boys from being boys. If 'boyhood' needs to be cosseted as you wish it to be then it surely is a fragile thing. My view: Raise kids in as close to real society as possible - i.e. no segregation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Forgive me, I had no idea how fragile you are feeling today. Here's a thing. The girls are have a great time in the Scouts and I'm sure the boys are too. The Scouts get more members and with more members more funding. I think that's good news. I was waiving the BS flag on your obvious BS. Before you pounce on the hypocrisy attack line about that...... I feel the same way about the alt right and their nonsense too. Once you abandoned all that and got back on topic, I don't disagree with you at all. I wasn't contesting girls and boys together. In fact, I even said that. I bet we would agree on plenty of other stuff once you drop the shock jock nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said: I'm not sure where you grew up but when I was a lad the presence of girls never hindered the boys from being boys. If 'boyhood' needs to be cosseted as you wish it to be then it surely is a fragile thing. You've got it backwards. Boys don't need to be cosseted. But they shouldn't be put in straight jacket simply for being boys. 20% of boys are on ADHD drugs in the US for being boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 1 minute ago, 55Jay said: I was waiving the BS flag on your obvious BS. Before you pounce on the hypocrisy attack line about that...... I feel the same way about the alt right and their nonsense too. Once you abandoned all that and got back on topic, I don't disagree with you at all. I wasn't contesting girls and boys together. In fact, I even said that. I bet we would agree on plenty of other stuff once you drop the shock jock nonsense. We might agree on much. But here's something we will not agree on. You don't get to tell me how I choose to express myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 (edited) 1 minute ago, lannarebirth said: You've got it backwards. Boys don't need to be cosseted. But they shouldn't be put in straight jacket simply for being boys. 20% of boys are on ADHD drugs in the US for being boys. Nothing to do with the Scouts. Edit (Probably a lot more to do with how pharmaceuticals are marketed in the US... so let's not use that as an excuse to exclude girls from the Scouts). Edited May 30, 2018 by Chomper Higgot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lannarebirth Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: Nothing to do with the Scouts. It's all got to do with the loss of their right to be what they are. Scouting will change from it. They'll lose boys, gain girls. The girls will be better for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, lannarebirth said: I don't have any philosophicalproblem with boys and girls being in the BSA. My problem mainly stems from my observation that when women join previously male focused groups the entire dynamic changes to the perspective of feminine sensibilities. I'd like to see boys allowed to be boys. They never are when girls are present. "They never are when girls are present." That's a problem for both sexes after around the age of 12/13 onwards.... Nonetheless, whilst segregating them probably works when it comes to their best chance for an academic education - it just reinforces stereotypes in scouts/guides. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
55Jay Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 Just now, Chomper Higgot said: We might agree on much. But here's something we will not agree on. You don't get to tell me how I choose to express myself. Another thing we agree on. Goes both ways, mate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 A troll post and replies have been rmeoved Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dick dasterdly Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 6 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: You've got it backwards. Boys don't need to be cosseted. But they shouldn't be put in straight jacket simply for being boys. 20% of boys are on ADHD drugs in the US for being boys. One of my brothers was put on drugs for a short time to calm him down. But that had NOTHING to do with him 'just being a boy' as my other two brothers were undoubtedly very much into getting into trouble too..... But I do agree that girls are generally calmer than boys. Not that this has anything to do with the topic, I'm just calling you out on the 'But they shouldn't be put in straight jacket simply for being boys. 20% of boys are on ADHD drugs in the US for being boys.' comment.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 30, 2018 Share Posted May 30, 2018 16 minutes ago, lannarebirth said: It's all got to do with the loss of their right to be what they are. Scouting will change from it. They'll lose boys, gain girls. The girls will be better for it. Allowing girls into the Scouts (like they do in other places around the world) will undoubtedly change Scouting. Boys and girls experiencing Scouting together, I think that's a good thing for both boys and girls. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 On 5/30/2018 at 10:04 AM, Chomper Higgot said: How fragile is your masculinity if allowing girls into the Scouts bruises it? Do you realise that you are referring to 10 year old boys that have no idea what "masculinity" is? Try not imposing an adult's opinion onto young boys that have no understanding of all the BS that adults indulge in. When I was 10, I disliked girls, and would not have liked being in a troop with them in it. Unless humans have fundamentally changed, 10 year old boys still don't like girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 hours ago, lannarebirth said: It's all got to do with the loss of their right to be what they are. Scouting will change from it. They'll lose boys, gain girls. The girls will be better for it. Someone should start another organisation for boys that does the same as scouts. Then all the boy scouts can leave scouts and go do their thing while leaving the girls to do theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: You are clearly very much in the Pro-Scout camp (pun intended) and rightly so, the Scouts are a fabulous movement. Why then you have a problem with girls begin able to participate in Scouting with the boys is beyond me. I am pro scouts and against integrating them with girls because it becomes a female dominated organisation. It will not remain the same once girls are included, as women will obviously also be joining to help "run" the meetings. After all, they 'aint going to be allowed to have a load of middle aged men being in charge of pubescent girls. I enjoyed doing boys stuff with other boys. I had no desire to do anything with girls. I find it hard to believe that you were a scout, with all the irrelevant stuff you are posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said: But I do agree that girls are generally calmer than boys. You have it right there. The girls won't like the boys running around as boys do when in a group and getting up to mischief, so the women that have joined to run the meetings will be forever telling the boys to calm down and behave. I got enough of that from mother, and I would not have welcomed it at scouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Did anyone ask the boys what they wanted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said: I am pro scouts and against integrating them with girls because it becomes a female dominated organisation. It will not remain the same once girls are included, as women will obviously also be joining to help "run" the meetings. After all, they 'aint going to be allowed to have a load of middle aged men being in charge of pubescent girls. I enjoyed doing boys stuff with other boys. I had no desire to do anything with girls. I find it hard to believe that you were a scout, with all the irrelevant stuff you are posting. The only irrelevance I see is your issues regarding losing out to women. The Scouts certainly do not agree with you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 The upside is the campgrounds will be cleaner and neater and the tents will be tastefully decorated and color coordinator. Oh, and did I mention the cookies? If they bring the cookies along, it would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 22 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: The only irrelevance I see is your issues regarding losing out to women. The Scouts certainly do not agree with you. I repeat: Did anyone ask the boys what they want? This is all driven by adults, and most posters have been imposing their adult opinions onto an organisation that caters for young boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said: I repeat: Did anyone ask the boys what they want? This is all driven by adults, and most posters have been imposing their adult opinions onto an organisation that caters for young boys. Unless there’s some regulation in the charter of the Scouts that requires the Organization polls it’s child members on such decisions, then I doubt very much anyone did ask the boys. It seems too they didn’t ask middle aged men suffering angst and fear that women are taking over their world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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