Thai Newspaper Headlines

[meadish_sweetball]

One thing that is still quite difficult for me is interpreting/understanding Thai newspaper headlines. Now and then I will ask a Thai for an explanation, and I am nigh always intrigued when I understand how they are composed (which is not too often... ).

Anyway, there must be some general rules as to how they are composed and should be read, and this thread is dedicated to trying to understand them better.

Hoping we can explore this together, and also hoping one or more of our native Thai members will be kind enough to help us if we get stuck or misunderstand something.

There are some online tools that could be helpful:

www.thai2english.com Free service which allows you to paste Thai text into a box and then hover your mouse over each individual word to get alternative translations. This is a great tool in order to get a basic idea of the words in the headline, but it is unable to translate everything - headlines typically contain many abbreviations and slang words not normally heard in everyday speech (at least not in my everyday life).

Also, Bangkok Post still has an archive of Thai news article translations called 'sàp jàak khàao' (words from the news) that could serve as a good introduction for anyone who has not worked with learning Thai from newspapers before. Click here: Thai-English vocabulary from the Thai dailies

If anyone has any other suggestions for free web resources that could be used, please post them here. However, please bear in mind that links to commercial web pages and plugging of adware/payware are discouraged and will be removed.

[meadish_sweetball]

http://www.thairath.co.th/online.php?secti...p;content=35246

Ok, I will go first. Here is the main headline from ไทยรัฐ today.

คนงาน ปรับพื้น ผิวถนน ดวง กุด แค่ เตือน ซิ่ง 2 หนุ่ม ลาย พราง ยิง ดับ

My attempt at an approximate translation (this can definitely be improved, but will give the general idea at least)

Ill-fated road repairman shot after telling off two speeding youth in camouflage

Words:

คนงาน = worker

ปรับพื้น = level the ground; smooth; even; flatten

ผิวถนน = road surface

ดวง กุด = ดวง 'duang' here is used in the sense (stars; fate) and กุด 'kùd' probably is used in the sense meaning maimed; mutilated.

ยิง ดับ = ยิง 'ying' = shoot, and ดับ dàb = switch off, turn out. When I have seen ยิง ดับ before, it has meant 'shoot dead', but the article claims he was just seriously wounded and brought to hospital).

ซิ่ง = to be speeding. In this case used as a noun. The entire noun phrase is ซิ่ง 2 หนุ่ม ลาย พราง 'sîng [R]sawng nùm laai phraang' "two speeding young men (dressed in) camouflage"

Link to the story, processed by www.thai2english.com in order to separate words for easy reading and allow hovering over words to see their meaning in English: http://www.thai2english.com/trans.html?query_id=240461

The story, in short, is about a road repairman in Bangkok who was shot in the back of his head by two youth dressed in camouflage on a motorcycle, apparently because he had shouted at them earlier when they stirred up dust while speeding over the road repair area.

[Grover]

great idea. it is like deciphering code sometimes with these newspaper headlines.

ยิง ดับ = ยิง 'ying' = shoot, and ดับ dàb = switch off, turn out. When I have seen ยิง ดับ before, it has meant 'shoot dead', but the article claims he was just seriously wounded and brought to hospital).

perhaps the meaning of ดับ in these cases could mean "to xxx his lights out" as in "to knock his lights out". So the combination of ยิง ดับ could have the range of meaning from shoot and kill to shoot and make unconscious or at least totally incapacitate.

Thats my 2 bahts, still trying to put the rest of the jigsaw puzzle together.

[meadish_sweetball]

Agree about ยิง ดับGrover, it has to be something like that.

[bangsue]

i liked ผิว ถนน

i'd only heard ผิว used for 'skin' (ie. of a person or animal) before.

so can ผิว be used for the surface or coating of anything?

[meadish_sweetball]

bangsue,

ผิว often means surface, for example in ผิวน้ำ water surface... A more exact word for 'skin' is ผิวหนัง where หนัง can mean 'hide'; 'skin'... which makes it more obvious that ผิว by itself means surface - "skin surface".

Another good word is ผิวเผิน superficial; on the surface; skin deep.

[bangsue]

thanks meadish, i understand that word better now.

[Grover]

i liked ผิว ถนน

one amusing characteristic of Thai language that they often relate 'things' & verbs to animal characteristics/behaviors. In english the boundaries are more rigid.

eg. they call the electric cord from a desk lamp the 'tail', or when a printer uses paper, they say the printer 'eats' the paper. I shake my head and smile when I hear these expressions, but at least it makes them easy to remember.

[aanon]

http://www.thairath.co.th/online.php?secti...p;content=35246

Ok, I will go first. Here is the main headline from ไทยรัฐ today.

คนงาน ปรับพื้น ผิวถนน ดวง กุด แค่ เตือน ซิ่ง 2 หนุ่ม ลาย พราง ยิง ดับ

My attempt at an approximate translation (this can definitely be improved, but will give the general idea at least)

Ill-fated road repairman shot after telling off two speeding youth in camouflage

great idea meadish. good translation too, but can i have a go at getting more of the original 'flavour'?

Road repairman out of luck: merely warns off speeding youth, ends up shot dead.

Ok, i left out the camouflage, and the 'ends up' bit is mine, but i reckon that if we can try to get into the phrasing, rhythm and (implied) punctuation of thai headlines we might even be able to create something authentic-sounding on our own (although admittedly just understanding is an ongoing challenge!).

all the best.

[taxexile]

Link to the story, processed by www.thai2english.com in order to separate words for easy reading and allow hovering over words to see their meaning in English

there are other sections of thai rath that i like to (try and ) read , but due to the length of time involved , rarely get beyond the first paragraph , how is it possible to configure thai2english to help me read the thai press.

my favourite thai rath column is เลขที่๑วีภาวดีฯ , on the inside of the back page.

he writes , often sarcastically , about the incompetence of thai officialdom and wacky criminal cases.

its not too hard to get the gist of the stories , but sometimes putting the meat on the bones drives me up the wall ( and my wife too if i keep pestering her for translations) and i have to give up and hope the next days story will be easier.

how is it possible to configure thai2english to help me read this column , or do i have to cut and paste phrase by phrase.

[meadish_sweetball]

aanon> your suggestion is definitely better. I can never hope to compete with a creative native speaker when it comes to flow...

Only one thing that confused me - he was not shot dead, as you can see further down in the article... still they use ยิง ดับ. A mistake?

taxexile - just copy the URL from the address line of the article in your browser, and paste it into the lowest field on the thai2english.com website, and you will get the entire page processed for easy reading. Hover the mouse over each word and its alternative translations will be shown. For an example of what it looks like when processed, just click on this link: http://www.thai2english.com/trans.html?query_id=240461

[meadish_sweetball]

Screendump showing where to put the URL from the newspaper, in the thai2english.com website.

[taxexile]

thanks meadish , it works a treat.

wifes happy too !!

[meadish_sweetball]

Today's headline from this Thai Rath article: http://www.thairath.co.th/onlineheadnews.html?id=35327 :

คาดได้ข้อยุติส.ส.สังกัดพรรค ลดเวลาสังกัดเหลือ30วันแทน

คาด ได้ ข้อยุติ ส.ส. สังกัด พรรค ลด เวลา สังกัด เหลือ 30 วัน แทน

[L]khaad [F]daai [FS]khaw [H]yud [R]saw [R]saw [R]sang[L]kad [H]phag [H]lod [M]wee[M]laa [R]sang[L]kad [RL]luea [R]saam[L]sib [M]wan [M]thaen

My general attempt at a translation:

Settlement expected in lowering the party affiliation time to 30 days for MPs

คาด ได้ = (it is) expected (to) get

ข้อยุติ = settlement

ส.ส. = Member of Parliament (short for สมาชิกรัฐสภา where รัฐสภา means parliament and สมาชิก means member)

สังกัด = affiliated with (belong to; be under; be a member of; be affiliated with)

พรรค = party (short for พรรคการเมือง 'political party')

ลด เวลา = reduce (the) time

เหลือ = to remain; to be left over

แทน = instead (also 'in lieu of' etc.)

Thaiglish: Expect get settlement MP belong party reduce time affiliation remain 30 days instead

General idea of the article: The commitee who are overseeing the rewriting of the constitution want to curb MPs ability to shift party loyalty during their term, and reserve movement between parties for election times. As I understand it, although I am not certain this is correct, it is the minimum amount of notice before changing party, that is to be reduced.

The article can be found here, processed by thai2english.com: http://www.thai2english.com/trans.html?query_id=242047

Comments very welcome - my translation won't be very idiomatic English but hopefully good enough to increase people's understanding of Thai. It is also possible I have misunderstood some of the details of the article's contents.

If anybody else wants to have a go at their own headline, please feel free.

[aanon]

aanon> your suggestion is definitely better. I can never hope to compete with a creative native speaker when it comes to flow...

Only one thing that confused me - he was not shot dead, as you can see further down in the article... still they use ยิง ดับ. A mistake?

taxexile - just copy the URL from the address line of the article in your browser, and paste it into the lowest field on the thai2english.com website, and you will get the entire page processed for easy reading. Hover the mouse over each word and its alternative translations will be shown. For an example of what it looks like when processed, just click on this link: http://www.thai2english.com/trans.html?query_id=240461

that is confusing, meadish. all i can think of with ยิงดับ is perhaps ดับ can apply to unconsciousness as per grover's suggestion? or, less likely, ยิงดับ is talking about the intentions of the youths?

ps. i think your translation would be preferred by most english speakers, in mine i'm merely playing around and trying to get closer to "thinking like a thai person", whatever that means!

pps. perhaps as we go on we will be able to formulate some general rules of thai headline writing, for example (starting with the easy stuff): leave out connecting words like และ and กับ, use nicknames where commonly known, shorten verbs to minimum understandable length...

ppps. after looking at your example link, i'm shocked to see how hard it is to read thai with gaps between all the words! i want to pause after every word.

all the best.

Edited January 31, 2007 by aanon

[meadish_sweetball]

that is confusing, meadish. all i can think of with ยิงดับ is perhaps ดับ can apply to unconsciousness as per grover's suggestion? or, less likely, ยิงดับ is talking about the intentions of the youths?

I checked this with my wife; she says ยิงดับ is always used for 'shot dead' and nothing else. She is of the opinion they have made a mistake in using it here.

ps. i think your translation would be preferred by most english speakers, in mine i'm merely playing around and trying to get closer to "thinking like a thai person", whatever that means!

Thanks - I really do prefer your version though, it feels more 'newspaper-like' in its brevity.

pps. perhaps as we go on we will be able to formulate some general rules of thai headline writing, for example (starting with the easy stuff): leave out connecting words like และ and กับ, use nicknames where commonly known, shorten verbs to minimum understandable length...

This is exactly what I was hoping as well. The more examples we can get in here, the more general rules we should be able to find - and also learn typical newspaper headline jargon, such as ยิงดับ, บึ้ม etc.

ppps. after looking at your example link, i'm shocked to see how hard it is to read thai with gaps between all the words! i want to pause after every word.

Yes - it definitely creates a weird staccato effect, doesn't it?

[In the Rai!]

Hi guys, this is todays I just realised. I clicked on the link and had a go and realised after that it was not the same as yesterdays. I will have a go at that after.

Anyway, here is todays. Bloody tough 1 methinks...I just put my own spin on it to make it sound more of an English heading.

ชี้เหตุอัปยศถ่วงความเจริญ โค้ชหรั่งยันนัด2ไม่มีเอาคืน

After a disgraceful decision in game 1 coach Rang's plead for rematch is denied.

Again not a literal translation but after reading the story, this is the best I could come up with.

I would love to hear others.

Cheers ITR

[In the Rai!]

Today's headline from this Thai Rath article: http://www.thairath.co.th/onlineheadnews.html?id=35327 :

คาดได้ข้อยุติส.ส.สังกัดพรรค ลดเวลาสังกัดเหลือ30วันแทน

คาด ได้ ข้อยุติ ส.ส. สังกัด พรรค ลด เวลา สังกัด เหลือ 30 วัน แทน

[L]khaad [F]daai [FS]khaw [H]yud [R]saw [R]saw [R]sang[L]kad [H]phag [H]lod [M]wee[M]laa [R]sang[L]kad [RL]luea [R]saam[L]sib [M]wan [M]thaen

My general attempt at a translation:

Settlement expected in lowering the party affiliation time to 30 days for MPs

คาด ได้ = (it is) expected (to) get

ข้อยุติ = settlement

ส.ส. = Member of Parliament (short for สมาชิกรัฐสภา where รัฐสภา means parliament and สมาชิก means member)

สังกัด = affiliated with (belong to; be under; be a member of; be affiliated with)

พรรค = party (short for พรรคการเมือง 'political party')

ลด เวลา = reduce (the) time

เหลือ = to remain; to be left over

แทน = instead (also 'in lieu of' etc.)

Thaiglish: Expect get settlement MP belong party reduce time affiliation remain 30 days instead

General idea of the article: The commitee who are overseeing the rewriting of the constitution want to curb MPs ability to shift party loyalty during their term, and reserve movement between parties for election times. As I understand it, although I am not certain this is correct, it is the minimum amount of notice before changing party, that is to be reduced.

The article can be found here, processed by thai2english.com: http://www.thai2english.com/trans.html?query_id=242047

Comments very welcome - my translation won't be very idiomatic English but hopefully good enough to increase people's understanding of Thai. It is also possible I have misunderstood some of the details of the article's contents.

If anybody else wants to have a go at their own headline, please feel free.

Nice work Meadish,

I will have a crack.

A conclusion is expected for MP's on the lowering the Political Party affiliation time to a period of 30 days.

Although the "political party affiliation" just doesnt sit well with me. I can't think of anything better myself (I am not a politics man) but it just is missing something I think.

cheers ITR

[bannork]

Today's headline from this Thai Rath article: http://www.thairath.co.th/onlineheadnews.html?id=35327 :

คาดได้ข้อยุติส.ส.สังกัดพรรค ลดเวลาสังกัดเหลือ30วันแทน

คาด ได้ ข้อยุติ ส.ส. สังกัด พรรค ลด เวลา สังกัด เหลือ 30 วัน แทน

[L]khaad [F]daai [FS]khaw [H]yud [R]saw [R]saw [R]sang[L]kad [H]phag [H]lod [M]wee[M]laa [R]sang[L]kad [RL]luea [R]saam[L]sib [M]wan [M]thaen

My general attempt at a translation:

Settlement expected in lowering the party affiliation time to 30 days for MPs

คาด ได้ = (it is) expected (to) get

ข้อยุติ = settlement

ส.ส. = Member of Parliament (short for สมาชิกรัฐสภา where รัฐสภา means parliament and สมาชิก means member)

สังกัด = affiliated with (belong to; be under; be a member of; be affiliated with)

พรรค = party (short for พรรคการเมือง 'political party')

ลด เวลา = reduce (the) time

เหลือ = to remain; to be left over

แทน = instead (also 'in lieu of' etc.)

Thaiglish: Expect get settlement MP belong party reduce time affiliation remain 30 days instead

General idea of the article: The commitee who are overseeing the rewriting of the constitution want to curb MPs ability to shift party loyalty during their term, and reserve movement between parties for election times. As I understand it, although I am not certain this is correct, it is the minimum amount of notice before changing party, that is to be reduced.

The article can be found here, processed by thai2english.com: http://www.thai2english.com/trans.html?query_id=242047

Comments very welcome - my translation won't be very idiomatic English but hopefully good enough to increase people's understanding of Thai. It is also possible I have misunderstood some of the details of the article's contents.

If anybody else wants to have a go at their own headline, please feel free.

Nice work Meadish,

I will have a crack.

A conclusion is expected for MP's on the lowering the Political Party affiliation time to a period of 30 days.

Although the "political party affiliation" just doesnt sit well with me. I can't think of anything better myself (I am not a politics man) but it just is missing something I think.

cheers ITR

It is expected the time required to be a member of a political party will be reduced to 30 days.

[bannork]

Hi guys, this is todays I just realised. I clicked on the link and had a go and realised after that it was not the same as yesterdays. I will have a go at that after.

Anyway, here is todays. Bloody tough 1 methinks...I just put my own spin on it to make it sound more of an English heading.

ชี้เหตุอัปยศถ่วงความเจริญ โค้ชหรั่งยันนัด2ไม่มีเอาคืน

After a disgraceful decision in game 1 coach Rang's plead for rematch is denied.

Again not a literal translation but after reading the story, this is the best I could come up with.

I would love to hear others.

Cheers ITR

Game 1 could better be translated as the first leg.

[In the Rai!]

Hi guys, this is todays I just realised. I clicked on the link and had a go and realised after that it was not the same as yesterdays. I will have a go at that after.

Anyway, here is todays. Bloody tough 1 methinks...I just put my own spin on it to make it sound more of an English heading.

ชี้เหตุอัปยศถ่วงความเจริญ โค้ชหรั่งยันนัด2ไม่มีเอาคืน

After a disgraceful decision in game 1 coach Rang's plead for rematch is denied.

Again not a literal translation but after reading the story, this is the best I could come up with.

I would love to hear others.

Cheers ITR

Game 1 could better be translated as the first leg.

Your right Bannork,

Maybe like this..

After a disgraceful decision in last nights game coach Rang's plead for rematch is denied.

[meadish_sweetball]

ITR, great to see you join in!

Just a small request - If possible, could you provide a small glossary of the individual terms as well, similar to what I did above? All that is needed is a bit of cut and paste from the thai2english.com generated page and indicating their meaning, something like this:

ชี้เหตุ = [H]chii [L]heed ... This is typical newspaper jargon. I still do not have a good translation for it, and thai2english does not combine the two as one expression in their division either. The basic construction is easy enough - ชี้ = to point (out); indicate; mark; show; direct + เหตุ = cause, reason; by reason of; due to.

อัปยศ [L]ab [L]bpa [H]yod = defamed ; shameful ; disgraceful ; ignominious

ถ่วงความเจริญ [L]thuang [M]khwaam [L;M]ja-roen= obstruct(ive); hinder

โค้ช หรั่ง [H]khood [L]rang = Coach Rang

ยัน [M]yan = insist; verify; confirm; attest

นัด 2 [M]nad [R]sawng = นัด = date. นัด 2 = second leg; second game/match

ไม่มี เอา คืน = there will be no retaliation; revenge

I cheated a little, and asked my patient wife for advice about this headline and article, as it was complete jibberish when I first tried to decode it. She broke it down for me thus:

1. (somebody) points out an obstructive disgrace (crap English, but bear with me) This "disgrace" refers to the referee giving Singapore a penalty because one of their players feigned being attacked, which Coach Rang thought was not the case.

2. Coach Rang insists that Thailand will not retaliate for this in the second leg

This section of the article supports her interpretation:

โค้ช หรั่ง ยืนยัน ด้วยว่า หลังจาก เดินทาง กลับ ประเทศไทย ใน วันนี้ แล้ว จะ ให้ ลูกทีม พัก 1 วันก่อน เรียก เข้า แคมป์ เก็บตัว เตรียมตัว เล่น ใน นัด ที่สอง ต่อไป ตามปกติ เวลา นี้ ลูกทีม ทำใจ ได้ แล้ว และ จะ ไม่มี การ เอา คืน เด็ดขาด จะ เอาชนะ ด้วย ฟุตบอล เรื่อง ที่ เกิดขึ้น ความผิด ไม่ได้ มาจาก นักเตะ

Freely translated:

Furthermore, Coach Rang insists that after having returned to Thailand today, he will let the team rest for 1 day and then call them to the camp to focus and prepare for the second leg as usual. At this time, the team has accepted what has happened, and there will be no retaliation whatsoever - they will win by playing football, and the incident can not be blamed on the players.

[In the Rai!]

ITR, great to see you join in!

Just a small request - If possible, could you provide a small glossary of the individual terms as well, similar to what I did above? All that is needed is a bit of cut and paste from the thai2english.com generated page and indicating their meaning, something like this:

ชี้เหตุ = [H]chii [L]heed ... This is typical newspaper jargon. I still do not have a good translation for it, and thai2english does not combine the two as one expression in their division either. The basic construction is easy enough - ชี้ = to point (out); indicate; mark; show; direct + เหตุ = cause, reason; by reason of; due to.

อัปยศ [L]ab [L]bpa [H]yod = defamed ; shameful ; disgraceful ; ignominious

ถ่วงความเจริญ [L]thuang [M]khwaam [L;M]ja-roen= obstruct(ive); hinder

โค้ช หรั่ง [H]khood [L]rang = Coach Rang

ยัน [M]yan = insist; verify; confirm; attest

นัด 2 [M]nad [R]sawng = นัด = date. นัด 2 = second leg; second game/match

ไม่มี เอา คืน = there will be no retaliation; revenge

I cheated a little, and asked my patient wife for advice about this headline and article, as it was complete jibberish when I first tried to decode it. She broke it down for me thus:

1. (somebody) points out an obstructive disgrace (crap English, but bear with me) This "disgrace" refers to the referee giving Singapore a penalty because one of their players feigned being attacked, which Coach Rang thought was not the case.

2. Coach Rang insists that Thailand will not retaliate for this in the second leg

This section of the article supports her interpretation:

โค้ช หรั่ง ยืนยัน ด้วยว่า หลังจาก เดินทาง กลับ ประเทศไทย ใน วันนี้ แล้ว จะ ให้ ลูกทีม พัก 1 วันก่อน เรียก เข้า แคมป์ เก็บตัว เตรียมตัว เล่น ใน นัด ที่สอง ต่อไป ตามปกติ เวลา นี้ ลูกทีม ทำใจ ได้ แล้ว และ จะ ไม่มี การ เอา คืน เด็ดขาด จะ เอาชนะ ด้วย ฟุตบอล เรื่อง ที่ เกิดขึ้น ความผิด ไม่ได้ มาจาก นักเตะ

Freely translated:

Furthermore, Coach Rang insists that after having returned to Thailand today, he will let the team rest for 1 day and then call them to the camp to focus and prepare for the second leg as usual. At this time, the team has accepted what has happened, and there will be no retaliation whatsoever - they will win by playing football, and the incident can not be blamed on the players.

No probs Meadish, I will add a breakdown and some definitions too.

Thanks for the help (and to your girlfriend too)

I did not know that ไม่มี เอา คืน = there will be no retaliation; revenge Can or could be used like that. I have always used it as (nothing to return)

I like your translation though.

But I reckon (not 100%) that if ไม่มี เอา คืน can be used as revenge I reckon it could be used as repeated.

So how does this sound?

Coach Rang insists that the disgraceful events that marred last nights game will not be repeated when they clash in the 2nd leg.(or next game)

ITR

[meadish_sweetball]

Yep, I like that.

[jeabsun]

annon and meadish sweetbal...

I would like to explain about "ยิงดับ". It means that the worker was shoot dead. However, the writer used ยิงดับ even though the worker was not dead. It is totally wrong. However, the writer intented to write it that way for exaggerating the story. Thairath often does this. I , and many other Thais, feel that Thairath is not a good source of information because they always exaggerate the headline or even the details inside. If you read Thairath more often, you will learn that the writer know about the story very well (too much details) just like that the writer was at the scene. However, we know that some bad writers just make it up based on just some information they got. They put their opinions or their guess about the story in their writing. There is a phrase in Thai to describe this action as "นั่งเทียนเขียนข่าว".

Edited March 7, 2007 by jeabsun

[Grover]

many thanks for your input, jeabsun! its appreciated.

[mangkorn]

annon and meadish sweetbal...

I would like to explain about "??????". It means that the worker was shoot dead. However, the writer used ?????? even though the worker was not dead. It is totally wrong. However, the writer intented to write it that way for exaggerating the story. Thairath often does this. I , and many other Thais, feel that Thairath is not a good source of information because they always exaggerate the headline or even the details inside. If you read Thairath more often, you will learn that the writer know about the story very well (too much details) just like that the writer was at the scene. However, we know that some bad writers just make it up based on just some information they got. They put their opinions or their guess about the story in their writing. There is a phrase in Thai to describe this action as "??????????????????".

Khun Jeabsun:

Fantastic! Could you please translate that? I read it literally as "sit on a candle and write the news" or "stick a candle up your butt and just invent the news."

But I'm probably missing something.

This is a vital idiom for me to know, as I'm a journalist, and I could probably use it several times a day.

Cheers.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think it is much more akin to 'burning the midnight oil' - i.e. they compose headlines late at night, by candlelight (implying insufficient lighting, a metaphor for unclarity) - implying mistakes easily slip in.

Sayings and idioms often deviate from formal grammar - much like the shorthand of newspaper headlines. Hence the lack of preposition between นั่ง and เทียน. Note also the proximity rhyme between เทียน and เขียน - very commonly used in traditional Thai poetry and song lyrics.

[mangkorn]

I think it is much more akin to 'burning the midnight oil' - i.e. they compose headlines late at night, by candlelight (implying insufficient lighting, a metaphor for unclarity) - implying mistakes easily slip in.

Sayings and idioms often deviate from formal grammar - much like the shorthand of newspaper headlines. Hence the lack of preposition between ???? and ?????. Note also the proximity rhyme between ????? and ????? - very commonly used in traditional Thai poetry and song lyrics.

Aw, Meadish, you're no fun.

But I must admit that your translation is probably correct.

I have only recently discovered the rhyming scheme to which you allude, and so am finally beginning to see how that works.

Thanks much.

[yoot]

I think it is much more akin to 'burning the midnight oil' - i.e. they compose headlines late at night, by candlelight (implying insufficient lighting, a metaphor for unclarity) - implying mistakes easily slip in.

Sayings and idioms often deviate from formal grammar - much like the shorthand of newspaper headlines. Hence the lack of preposition between นั่ง and เทียน. Note also the proximity rhyme between เทียน and เขียน - very commonly used in traditional Thai poetry and song lyrics.

Well, Khun Meadish, that is not correct.

นั่งเทียน means to sit staring at a the candle-fire. It's used when someone who claim that they can see the future or whatever which had happened in the past or future by watching through the water in the alms-bowl of a monk which has candles lighten and put them around the alms-bowl. When it's used with journalists, นั่งเทียนเขียนข่าว means that journalist had made up a story by without knowing the true story.