Jomtien immigration -- tracking rumor about change in policy about freshness of income letters

[Jingthing]

The idea that IO workers know ANYTHING except what is written on their handouts, needs to be put to rest. They are going through the motions like ALL bureaucrats. They repeat what they are told.

Not sure what your point is related to this particular issue. No need to further stir the pot unless and until we get even one credible report of a rejection based on income letter age up to 6 months.

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[Pattaya46]

@Jingthing Why are you trying to keep this topic always alive by posting again and again just to say that there is nothing new ??

Please stop posting in it and let it die. It was just one more "false rumour report" as the too many we have on this forum.

I even don't understand why a moderator didn't lock this topic long ago: Not the beginning of a proof of a possible change...

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

@Jingthing Why are you trying to keep this topic always alive by posting again and again just to say that there is nothing new ??

Please stop posting in it and let it die. It was just one more "false rumour report" as the too many we have on this forum.

I even don't understand why a moderator didn't lock this topic long ago: Not the beginning of a proof of a possible change...

Three reasons --

 

One -- there was a credible report of an expat being told (almost definitely by an officer not actually working at the retirement desk but that isn't confirmed) that the current rule was one month, no six months. If that reflected the truth, that would have reflected a MAJOR change in policy. (But turns out it didn't reflect the truth.)

 

The above justified the topic.

 

Two -- there was not so credible third person report of an expat having an application rejected based on a letter over one month and under six.

 

That muddied the waters.

 

Overall, this thread has been productive in strongly confirming that there has been no rule change and the rule is still six months, not six.

 

Three -- As I've mentioned before, the only reason I think to keep this topic open is JUST IN CASE there are any credible reports to emerge of expats being denied based on letter age (under six months).

 

I don't expect any such reports, but that's the only reason I think it might be good for it to continue and if you read the thread I already said I am OK with it being closed.

 

If you have a moderation issue, do a REPORT. This is not the place to discuss such things. 

 

Cheers. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Jingthing

[mugaly]

8 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

@Jingthing Why are you trying to keep this topic always alive by posting again and again just to say that there is nothing new ??

Please stop posting in it and let it die. It was just one more "false rumour report" as the too many we have on this forum.

I even don't understand why a moderator didn't lock this topic long ago: Not the beginning of a proof of a possible change...

Let sleeping dogs lie.....ooops, I can expect a 500 word response and 5 more pages for that, no doubt!

Edited June 5, 2018 by mugaly

[Hans Rayong]

On 6/3/2018 at 1:48 PM, tropo said:

The Australian Embassy increased the price last year from about 500 baht to about 1700 (depending on exchange rates).

Swedish Consulate in Pattaya just charge 400 baht and it takes 15 minutes.

[Jingthing]

Let sleeping dogs lie.....ooops, I can expect a 500 word response and 5 more pages for that, no doubt!

Those old doggies can sleep for up to six months in regards to their embassy/consulate income letters. So you're counting words eh?

 

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[mugaly]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Those old doggies can sleep for up to six months in regards to their embassy/consulate income letters. So you're counting words eh?

 

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That was short and pithy.

[jimn]

I7 pages of mostly off topic nonsense nothing to do with the question raised by the OP. My contribution is this. In April I used an income letter 6 weeks old with no problem. One thing to be aware of at Jomtien is the front desk. These people check your documents and then issue you with a queue number. Now the issue here is if this person is miss informed about the validity of the letter then he/she may tell you the income letter is invalid, whereas it may not be the policy of the Retitement desk. If this happens to you I strongly suggest you go to the Retirement Desk 8 and challenge this with Retirement Desk IO. I hope this helps

Edited June 5, 2018 by jimn

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, jimn said:

I7 pages of mostly off topic nonsense nothing to do with the question raised by the OP. My contribution is this. In April I used an income letter 6 weeks old with no problem. One thing to be aware of at Jomtien is the front desk. These people check your documents and then issue you with a queue number. Now the issue here is if this person is miss informed about the validity of the letter then he/she may tell you the income letter is invalid, whereas it may not be the policy of the Retitement desk. If this happens to you I strongly suggest you go to the Retirement Desk 8 and challenge this with Retirement Desk IO. I hope this helps

Yes I agree with you but in my experience they don't look all that closely at such details and I think the chances of that happening are very slim. But it's a good point. If that did happen to anyone, they would need to persist in getting their meeting with the actual people that process the applications. This thread can help with that if it ever happened, because people can KNOW they're right and the intake people are WRONG. (But be polite about it!) 

[anon537687643]

 
Overall, this thread has been productive in strongly confirming that there has been no rule change and the rule is still six months, not six.
 

 
Cheers. 

“six months not six “ and folk whine about disinformation ?


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[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, markaoffy said:

“six months not six “ and folk whine about disinformation ?


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Thanks for catching that keyboard fart.

Of course, anyone reading this thread would know that should have read:

 

six months not one.

 

In other words:

The 

Rule 

Has

Not

Changed

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by Jingthing

[KhunFred]

Heard yet ANOTHER version today at the Embassy Outreach in Pattaya. A woman sitting close to me was explaining to a friend why she came to the outreach and she mentioned that the income letter was only good for THREE months. I started to open up a conversation but I was hot and exhausted and completely unwilling to get into a debate with anyone over anything. I don't know why Thai Immigration does not concentrate on making things MORE convenient, rather than less. I knew the woman was dead wrong but there she was spreading more bad information for someone else to repeat. Before I came here, I had the erroneous idea that the Embassy was here to HELP Americans. Today, they had a woman announcing the numbers that was so incompetent with microphone technique that her announcements were nearly impossible to hear because of distortion. She also forgot where we were in the number order and had to correct herself several times. Just a pack of overpaid, American royalty that does as little as possible to lubricate the process for their countrymen. Exactly WHAT is the point of having an Embassy that does the minimum and constantly invents ways to make the process less convenient. The bank draft requirement is one example, being available for only two hours is another. The place was packed. The environment was much friendlier than the head office in Bangkok, where they refuse to let you in earlier than 15 minutes before your appointment and practically want to strip search you when entering.

[tropo]

On 6/5/2018 at 10:14 AM, Hans Rayong said:

Swedish Consulate in Pattaya just charge 400 baht and it takes 15 minutes.

Isn't that nice... I have to take a bus to BKK and pay over 4x what you pay.

[Jingthing]

28 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Heard yet ANOTHER version today at the Embassy Outreach in Pattaya. A woman sitting close to me was explaining to a friend why she came to the outreach and she mentioned that the income letter was only good for THREE months. I started to open up a conversation but I was hot and exhausted and completely unwilling to get into a debate with anyone over anything. I don't know why Thai Immigration does not concentrate on making things MORE convenient, rather than less. I knew the woman was dead wrong but there she was spreading more bad information for someone else to repeat. Before I came here, I had the erroneous idea that the Embassy was here to HELP Americans. Today, they had a woman announcing the numbers that was so incompetent with microphone technique that her announcements were nearly impossible to hear because of distortion. She also forgot where we were in the number order and had to correct herself several times. Just a pack of overpaid, American royalty that does as little as possible to lubricate the process for their countrymen. Exactly WHAT is the point of having an Embassy that does the minimum and constantly invents ways to make the process less convenient. The bank draft requirement is one example, being available for only two hours is another. The place was packed. The environment was much friendlier than the head office in Bangkok, where they refuse to let you in earlier than 15 minutes before your appointment and practically want to strip search you when entering.

THREE months?

Sounds like people are just making things up now.

Not that I'm surprised.

I reckon some people hear six months and think, wow, that's a really long time, sounds too good to be true, Thai immigration couldn't possibly have such an expat friendly policy -- so it must be three months.

The objective reality is most people on income letters have income that is PENSION based (such as social security) and that means LIFETIME income (with minor adjustments).

Most other nations with retirement expat programs realize that and only require the proof of pension income ONE time.

[KhunFred]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

THREE months?

Sounds like people are just making things up now.

Not that I'm surprised.

I reckon some people hear six months and think, wow, that's a really long time, sounds too good to be true, Thai immigration couldn't possibly have such an expat friendly policy -- so it must be three months.

The objective reality is most people on income letters have income that is PENSION based (such as social security) and that means LIFETIME income (with minor adjustments).

Most other nations with retirement expat programs realize that and only require the proof of pension income ONE time.

Yes, that is the problem with this system. I suppose it must be a revenue enhancement requirement for the Embassy. They MUST have enough influence to tell Immigration that PENSIONS are lifetime income and do not change unless SS gets a cost of living adjustment. In my case, I get SS, plus a state retirement pension and an annuity payment. These only change if there is a COLA adjustment. Embassies do NOTHING for the exorbitant outlay they are granted by the government. What a great job. I wish I had taken a different career path and become an American Embassy employee.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

Before I came here, I had the erroneous idea that the Embassy was here to HELP Americans. Today, they had a woman announcing the numbers that was so incompetent with microphone technique that her announcements were nearly impossible to hear because of distortion. She also forgot where we were in the number order and had to correct herself several times. Just a pack of overpaid, American royalty that does as little as possible to lubricate the process for their countrymen. Exactly WHAT is the point of having an Embassy that does the minimum and constantly invents ways to make the process less convenient. The bank draft requirement is one example, being available for only two hours is another. The place was packed. The environment was much friendlier than the head office in Bangkok, where they refuse to let you in earlier than 15 minutes before your appointment and practically want to strip search you when entering.

I think that your Embassy helps you Americans considerably more than ours helps us Brits! No question of British Embassy staff venturing anytime outside their 4 walls for outreach sessions anywhere in the provinces - instead we're expected to traipse in person to Bangkok each and every time we need anything from them (income confirmation letters, as per this thread, excepted). And we, too, now need to book an appointment to grace their portals usually weeks or even months in advance.

 

@Jingthing - apologies for this off-topic digression.

[KhunFred]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

I think that your Embassy helps you Americans considerably more than ours helps us Brits! No question of British Embassy staff venturing anytime outside their 4 walls for outreach sessions anywhere in the provinces - instead we're expected to traipse in person to Bangkok each and every time we need anything from them (income confirmation letters, as per this thread, excepted). And we, too, now need to book an appointment to grace their portals usually weeks or even months in advance.

 

@Jingthing - apologies for this off-topic digression.

Interesting. I would have thought that you Brits would have outpaced us Yanks in Embassy service. The UK does most things more equitably than the USA. I suppose that's what I get for thinking.

[soisanuk]

On 6/2/2018 at 9:20 PM, ThaiBob said:

The Pattaya City Expats Club monitors changes in retirement extension policy at the Jomtien Immigration office. Several club members are volunteers for the American Embassy Outreach program. Yes, at one time there was a policy change that the Income Affidavit could not be more than 30 days old, however, because of pressure from various foreign embassies it was rescinded. Income Affadavits are valid for six months. Any updates will be be posted on the club website, PCEC.club  I personally used an Income Affadavit that was more than 30 days old in April..... no problems. 

I know the person at the PCEC who does his best to keep up with requirements at Jomtien Immigration, mostly from first hand reports of their members.  Today, he received an email from one of their Australian members who did his annual extension this morning using a 4 month old Embassy Income letter - he reported that it was accepted without question. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by soisanuk

[Jingthing]

Excellent. That is a good report because it refutes not only the notorious one month rumor but also the recent silly three months rumors.

 

Again folks the rule is six months and there has been no change.

 

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[NanLaew]

On 6/4/2018 at 8:32 AM, Jingthing said:

Suggestion -- I don't think it's productive for many or even any more people to ask the officers at Jomtien about this issue. Why continue to annoy them in a repetitive way with a question that we ALREADY have a very real answer to? They're busy enough with their work. 

The answer we have by now -- 

 

THERE IS NO POLICY CHANGE.

That policy there is DEFINITELY still income letters allowed as old as six months.

The policy never changed to one month. That was definitely MISINFORMATION.

So, here we are.

What's the point of this thread now?

To upset the few who have been kicked into touch by Jomtien IO when they presented their older than 1-month income papers?

 

I have been around the Thai bureaucratic block long enough to know that this  'comfort' that some will take in there being no apparent rule change today is fleeting. It won't mean a hill of beans to the poor soul who can and will be sent packing for a less than 1-month income letter all because they can.

 

It's like the movie Jaws... you simply KNOW it's still out there.

[KhunFred]

Here's ANOTHER wrinkle in this discussion. I don't believe it but this guy on YouTube swears that he uses the same Embassy income affidavit every time. He says he copies it with a color printer, changes the date and uses it over and over. How is this possible? The Embassy uses an embossed stamp on the affidavit and I refuse to believe that Immigration does not notice that the stamp is not embossed.  Comments???

[Jingthing]

To upset the few who have been kicked into touch by Jomtien IO when they presented their older than 1-month income papers?
 
I have been around the Thai bureaucratic block long enough to know that this  'comfort' that some will take in there being no apparent rule change today is fleeting. It won't mean a hill of beans to the poor soul who can and will be sent packing for a less than 1-month income letter all because they can.
 
It's like the movie Jaws... you simply KNOW it's still out there.

Actually you are wrong. We do not know it and I'm calling fear mongering BS on your post.

I read this forum. No reports about that actually happening for years. One totally suspicious unconfirmed third person report here that simply cannot be taken seriously.

Sure changes can happen in future.

But they haven't happened yet and there is no logical reason now to expect income letters as old as six months to be rejected.

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[Jingthing]

Here's ANOTHER wrinkle in this discussion. I don't believe it but this guy on YouTube swears that he uses the same Embassy income affidavit every time. He says he copies it with a color printer, changes the date and uses it over and over. How is this possible? The Embassy uses an embossed stamp on the affidavit and I refuse to believe that Immigration does not notice that the stamp is not embossed.  Comments???

Comments? That is fraud and nobody should do that. If he's caught there may be serious consequences under Thai law for submitting a forged document.

 

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[Jingthing]

I will also add that if this rule ever changes it will likely be formally announced by the office to the local press . Also in such a case where there is a change in my experience at Jomtien sometimes they will allow the old rules on a current application but warn it will be enforced next year. No guarantees but they aren't always as draconian when people are surprised by rule changes as some imagine.

 

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[bkk6060]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Comments? That is fraud and nobody should do that. If he's caught there may be serious consequences under Thai law for submitting a forged document.

Don't do that.

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I agree, no way.

But it begs a question does Thai rule require the "original embassy cert".  Or, just a copy of the cert/evidence of the cert.?

[NanLaew]

57 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I agree, no way.

But it begs a question does Thai rule require the "original embassy cert".  Or, just a copy of the cert/evidence of the cert.?

Jomtien only accepts the embossed original UK consular letter of income.

 

Some other IO's require that the embossed original UK consular letter of income be checked for authenticity by the MFA wherein the name and signature thereon is checked against the gazette of current foreign consular appointments. I guess maybe someone reporting under that IO jurisdiction was caught taking the mickey with a Xerox of an old one?

 

As in all things related to Thai bureaucracy, your experience and that of others can and will vary.

 

That's not scaremongering BTW, it's called being pragmatic, prescient even.

[Jingthing]

People need to know, for now, not for all eternity, whether with a massive amount of probability that their income letters up to SIX MONTHS old will be accepted or not at Jomtien.

 

We know.

 

They can indeed confidently expect such letters to be accepted.

 

To suggest any differently at this point in time is indeed just noise and fear mongering. 

 

End of, short of any real news of a change in the FUTURE.

 

Next ... 

Edited June 7, 2018 by Jingthing

[mugaly]

18 hours ago, OJAS said:

Today, they had a woman announcing the numbers that was so incompetent with microphone technique that her announcements were nearly impossible to hear because of distortion

Sounds like a technology problem.  Maybe it wasn't her fault.

[KhunFred]

1 minute ago, mugaly said:

Sounds like a technology problem.  Maybe it wasn't her fault.

It may be a technology problem, but there have been issues with this every time I have ever gone to the outreach. Unless you are sitting at the front, it is difficult to understand the announcement of the numbers. You would think that they could provide visuals as well as audio. Large cue cards and a magic market are not expensive.

 

 

[mugaly]

8 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

It may be a technology problem, but there have been issues with this every time I have ever gone to the outreach. Unless you are sitting at the front, it is difficult to understand the announcement of the numbers. You would think that they could provide visuals as well as audio. Large cue cards and a magic market are not expensive.

 

 

Maybe they should start charging 500 baht admission?  That way they could afford all the bells and whistles, power point presentations etcetc.