Gloom, Doom, Hotel Room...

[swissie]

As I can still see no benefit to the Thai Economy and especially not to the small Thai Businessman by this Guest House "crackdown". I must assume that the big players in the Hotel-Segment simply want the small hotel/guest house competition out of the way. Enabeling them to raise room-rates massively.

The burning question:

- Will the few millions of Pattaya visitors, not willing or able to pay 5-star hotel prices, be allowed to sleep on the beach, provided that they will not drop their cigarette-butts on the beach and refrain from molesting nearby working Lady-Boys?
In the EU, a pig must be provided with a minimum space of 0.7 square-meters. Can't see any reason an average tourist should be provided with more space, just for sleeping on the beach.

- An other solution wold be, that the remaining (licensed) 5-star hotels might allow for a occupancy rate of 17 1/2 people per room. Not all that bad, can meet lots of new people thanks to close contact, improve on language skills, and hone darwinian survival-skills, when it comes to "who gets to use the Toilet first and for how long".

Pattaya has been famous for "adventure-tourism" (in the broadest sense of the word). Sleeping on the beach in S/E Asia's "premier beach-resort" or sharing a room with 17 other "jolly good fellows", will give new meaning to "adventure tourism".
Cheers.

 

[impulse]

If you have more tourists than the resource can sustainably support, one way to cut down the numbers while keeping up revenue is to jack up the price across the board.  It sucks for the lower budget tourists, but it's working for high end destinations around the world..

 

Another way is to eliminate the lower cost options, in hopes of improving the quality of the experience for those who pay for the higher end accommodations.

 

Thailand's already got too many tourists to maintain the resource and keep offering a quality experience into the future.  Something's gotta give, or all of Thailand's resorts will look like Newark, New Jersey eventually.  (No offense to Newark, which is not meant to be a tourist destination)

 

The decision is made a lot easier when a huge subset of low cost accommodations aren't registered, pay no hotel taxes to contribute their share to maintain the infrastructure, don't report their guests to immigration, and have all kinds of safety issues because they weren't built as hotels.

 

 

[DrTuner]

Most visitors are Chinese in buses, stack them inside there for the nights.

[The manic]

The smaller places will continue but just have to register.  The rogue condo owners who rent places out for short periods to anti social elements will be stopped hopefully. The raids are not designed to close all places down but to get them to register and register their guests. There will be no big changes. BTW Pattaya has never been famous for adventure tourism...Golf and nightlife have been the traditional draws to come here.

Edited June 10, 2018 by The manic

[mugaly]

2 hours ago, The manic said:

Golf and nightlife have been the traditional draws to come here.

Nonsense post.  The Chinese tour groups partake in neither.

[sanemax]

2 hours ago, The manic said:

BTW Pattaya has never been famous for adventure tourism...Golf and nightlife have been the traditional draws to come here.

Pattaya is famous for prostitution, nothing else

[mugaly]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Pattaya is famous for prostitution, nothing else

Isn't that adventure of a sort...or is it misadventure?

[NanLaew]

On my recently completed Pattaya visit, it was interesting to see so many hostels have opened up in single and double shophouses all over Pattaya and exclusively aimed at the Chinese backpacker. They can be found on Beach Road, up near the bus station on Nua near Sukhumvit and pretty much all points in between.

 

On my previous visit, I noted the mid-morning crowds of Chinese getting in and out of minivans and generally hanging about outside the Base condo on Second. I assumed that this is the standard airbnb check-in/out procedure where they hang about waiting for the condo owners and/or agents to turn up with the keys?

 

Hardly noticed the Chinese tour buses.

Edited June 10, 2018 by NanLaew

[The manic]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

Pattaya is famous for prostitution, nothing else

Nothing wrong with that if it was true but it's not the whole picture at all. Its the best city in Thailand for all round entertainment, food, day trips, and is the only truly international, cosmopolitan  ity left. This weekend saw a quarter of a million people watch a firework competition...How many of those used sex workers? Germany is more famous for its sex workers than Thailand.  

[brling]

14 hours ago, The manic said:

 Germany is more famous for its sex workers than Thailand.  

Laughable 

[lamyai3]

23 hours ago, mugaly said:

Isn't that adventure of a sort...or is it misadventure?

Only when it goes wrong. 

[scorecard]

On 6/10/2018 at 6:31 PM, mugaly said:

Nonsense post.  The Chinese tour groups partake in neither.

Mass tourism to Pattaya started decades go, decades before Chinese mass tour groups.

[The manic]

6 hours ago, brling said:

Laughable 

To those in the know Germany is famous for its legal, regulated but highly diverse sex scene. Same with DR. Australia and New Zealand also have legal and infamous legal prostituion. But such truths don't fit the stereotypical narratives of the ill informed. Thai food is experienced by more people than Thai sex.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:17 AM, The manic said:

Nothing wrong with that if it was true but it's not the whole picture at all. Its the best city in Thailand for all round entertainment, food, day trips, and is the only truly international, cosmopolitan  ity left. This weekend saw a quarter of a million people watch a firework competition...How many of those used sex workers? Germany is more famous for its sex workers than Thailand.  

Certainly used to be true, back when Pattaya had little else. While it still has more farang bars than any other Thai city, it also has all the other things you mention. The only similar city for tourists ( other than Patong and I will never go back to that place ) is Chiang Mai, and the nightlife there is a sad, pathetic joke, compared to Pattaya. For anyone that wants nightlife with a zing, it's Pattaya. Temples are fine, far as they go, but most of us want a bit more than them for an interesting life.

[meinphuket]

They are illegal, violate the building usage code, violate the hotel code regarding safety issues such as fire escapes, smoke detectors, hydrants. They don't have the proper insurance, pay the OrBorTor/ TAO hotel bed tax, and probably don't pay any taxes at all as they fly under the radar. Need anymore reasons ?

[The manic]

10 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Certainly used to be true, back when Pattaya had little else. While it still has more farang bars than any other Thai city, it also has all the other things you mention. The only similar city for tourists ( other than Patong and I will never go back to that place ) is Chiang Mai, and the nightlife there is a sad, pathetic joke, compared to Pattaya. For anyone that wants nightlife with a zing, it's Pattaya. Temples are fine, far as they go, but most of us want a bit more than them for an interesting life.

Agreed Paying dreadful...CM is sad but Issan Rocks during the Rocket season. I return to Pattaya for a bit of peace and quiet!

People party like mad especially in Yasothon and Phanom Phrai.

[brling]

On 6/10/2018 at 6:17 PM, The manic said:

Nothing wrong with that if it was true but it's not the whole picture at all. Its the best city in Thailand for all round entertainment, food, day trips, and is the only truly international, cosmopolitan  ity left. This weekend saw a quarter of a million people watch a firework competition...How many of those used sex workers? Germany is more famous for its sex workers than Thailand.  

There is a thread today on this forum in the Thailand News, ="The Reality and DENIAL of sex work in Thailand".  Why not chime in as usual and defend/ apologize for the Thais, as it it will keep you busy for a few hours.

[SOTIRIOS]

...apparently...when a foreigner is implicated in some way...they can confiscate all his assets...

 

...sadly it doesn't seem like the same rules apply when Thais are the culprits....

 

...especially, as you read....when they are under the wings of some 'V.I.P.'s'...

[KKr]

Posted yesterday at 02:41 PM

   On 6/11/2018 at 12:17 AM,  The manic said: 

 Germany is more famous for its sex workers than Thailand.  

On 6/11/2018 at 2:41 PM, brling said:

 Laughable 

seems there is a misunderstanding here,
At first sight, I would agree with the second statement but considering that I never realised
that Germans-on-the-Job are considered sex-workers, now lean towards the first statement

[KKr]

On Topic of unregistered guesthouses and pressing for registration.

I have seen quite a lot of nice well thought through places, and it was a pleasure to stay there.
On the other side of the spectrum, I have also seen many guesthouses that are death traps in case of a fire. (p.e. iron barred windows for "safety", one staircase, and kitchen right next to that on the ground floor; a linen cabinet blocking half a staircase; trolleys with linen in front of the emergency exit.)
Rightly so if these get closed down.

[sam neuts]

The crackdown on all short term rentals is causing problems for many.

 

The affect to so many businesses that have been operating legally until the 2016 amendment is devastating.

 

This is from a villa rental company in Thailand.

 

"Many years of employing Thai staff, paying tax, obtaining any available licences, expense of operations and building maintenance. All wasted time and money."

 

It is a terrible situation for Travellers, Business Owners, Investors and many essential parts of Thailand's 37 million visitors annually Tourism Industry.

 

A sensible Hotel Act which has a classification for "Small Hotels" is the only option.

 

Obviously buildings need to be licensed and business owners need to follow regulations, pay tax and provide good safe alternative accommodation for visitors to Thailand.

 

But, this is not possible with the enforcement of the current act.

 

GuestHouses, Homestays, Villa and House, Room or Rooms. Nearly all daily rentals of accommodation is now illegal without a Hotel Licence.

 

Less than 300 Hotels with a Licence in Pattaya and over 7 million Tourists.

[swissie]

7 hours ago, sam neuts said:

The crackdown on all short term rentals is causing problems for many.

 

The affect to so many businesses that have been operating legally until the 2016 amendment is devastating.

 

This is from a villa rental company in Thailand.

 

"Many years of employing Thai staff, paying tax, obtaining any available licences, expense of operations and building maintenance. All wasted time and money."

 

It is a terrible situation for Travellers, Business Owners, Investors and many essential parts of Thailand's 37 million visitors annually Tourism Industry.

 

A sensible Hotel Act which has a classification for "Small Hotels" is the only option.

 

Obviously buildings need to be licensed and business owners need to follow regulations, pay tax and provide good safe alternative accommodation for visitors to Thailand.

 

But, this is not possible with the enforcement of the current act.

 

GuestHouses, Homestays, Villa and House, Room or Rooms. Nearly all daily rentals of accommodation is now illegal without a Hotel Licence.

 

Less than 300 Hotels with a Licence in Pattaya and over 7 million Tourists.

Quote:  "Less than 300 Hotels with a Licence in Pattaya and over 7 million Tourists."

 

That's the essence of this (my) thread...

 

But I also have offered solutions in my OP.

 

- If the "shake-down" is truly implemented, and my solutions should not prove practical, a "Touristic-Melt-Down" will take place in Pattaya.
Cheers.

[DrTuner]

25 minutes ago, swissie said:

- If the "shake-down" is truly implemented, and my solutions should not prove practical, a "Touristic-Melt-Down" will take place in Pattaya.

Wouldn't it be lovely if the bloody tourists went elsewhere .. like North Korea. Bring it on, expats FTW! ? 

[flyingtlger]

Good guys go to heaven, bad guys go to Pattaya......Ah, very profound!

[JAZZDOG]

On ‎6‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:57 PM, meinphuket said:

They are illegal, violate the building usage code, violate the hotel code regarding safety issues such as fire escapes, smoke detectors, hydrants. They don't have the proper insurance, pay the OrBorTor/ TAO hotel bed tax, and probably don't pay any taxes at all as they fly under the radar. Need anymore reasons ?

If you read Hotel Act 2016 it is not that simple. The only hotels that comply are ones licensed AND built to code as hotels. That makes up only 10% of the  hotels in the country. The other 90% would find it nearly impossible to fully comply after the fact. Is the government prepared to close 90% of all the hotels? I think not.

[JAZZDOG]

23 hours ago, swissie said:

Quote:  "Less than 300 Hotels with a Licence in Pattaya and over 7 million Tourists."

 

That's the essence of this (my) thread...

 

But I also have offered solutions in my OP.

 

- If the "shake-down" is truly implemented, and my solutions should not prove practical, a "Touristic-Melt-Down" will take place in Pattaya.
Cheers.

The sky falls about this time every year

 

[tootall]

This is an operation run by the big corporations who build too many of these high price condo/hotel buildings and their payoffs to the police to circumvent/make rules as they go along. There are way too condo and hotels going up all over Pattaya. They build and build and do not have the infrastructure to support all the buildings and traffic they have now. I have a friend who has a restaurant/hotel and has all the up to date license yet he know he will be closed down. He states the police are telling all these lower priced establishments, that offer daily/weekly/monthly rates that they have to have an elevator and a pool, Where in the law books does this say it is mandatory?  It is the pressure from the big hotel/condo buildings going up every week that is the force/payments to the police for them to make this new crackdown 

[thaibeachlovers]

21 hours ago, tootall said:

This is an operation run by the big corporations who build too many of these high price condo/hotel buildings and their payoffs to the police to circumvent/make rules as they go along. There are way too condo and hotels going up all over Pattaya. They build and build and do not have the infrastructure to support all the buildings and traffic they have now. I have a friend who has a restaurant/hotel and has all the up to date license yet he know he will be closed down. He states the police are telling all these lower priced establishments, that offer daily/weekly/monthly rates that they have to have an elevator and a pool, Where in the law books does this say it is mandatory?  It is the pressure from the big hotel/condo buildings going up every week that is the force/payments to the police for them to make this new crackdown 

He states the police are telling all these lower priced establishments, that offer daily/weekly/monthly rates that they have to have an elevator and a pool,

If that is true, I'll be evicted soon, so I hope it is just a wild rumour.

If I get evicted, I'm out of LOS. There's just so much insanity that I can tolerate.

[swissie]

I know only one thing: In the future I will have to call my favourite guest-house of 10 years, asking "Are you still in business?" AND, "Would you agree to put my monthly rent with an Escrow-Company, so in case you will be closed down during my stay, I will get the unused part of my rent back from the Escrow-Company?"

OR: TVF opens a new sub-forum GUEST HOUSES/HOTEL'S CLOSED DOWN RECENTLY OR IN THE PROCESS OF BEING CLOSED DOWN.
Boy, we have come far in Thailand, haven't we?
Cheers.

[BestB]

On 6/10/2018 at 4:31 PM, The manic said:

The smaller places will continue but just have to register.  The rogue condo owners who rent places out for short periods to anti social elements will be stopped hopefully. The raids are not designed to close all places down but to get them to register and register their guests. There will be no big changes. BTW Pattaya has never been famous for adventure tourism...Golf and nightlife have been the traditional draws to come here.

Where do you think smaller places need to register?

 

We are all registered with rooms for rent license, pay city tax, building tax, even sign tax

 

Whoever told you raids were designed to register? register what and where?

 

Whoever told you raids were designed to get hotels to register guests?

 

I am a small hotel owner and i was raided, i was arrested, i was jailed, i was judged and released.

 

I was not told, or ordered or required to "register" anything anywhere

 

I have all required by law licenses, which now as it turns out are not enough

 

I have tax receipts, company documents, work permit and everything else imaginable and yet i was jailed and judged.

 

There is another thread going at the moment, where all the reasons and speculations have been discussed.

 

Bottom line is no one really knows why places been raided, what they hoping to achieve and why they trying to achieve it

 

No one knows what to do after being raided, most if not all unable to comply with the new regulations, as not only waiting time for hotel license is 2-3 years, but no one could possibly comply with insane regulations.

 

Interesting interview with Hotel association president, where most of what she says is an absolute waffle mumbo jumbo, but 1 thing she said which rang some bells for me.

 

Just recently, they had 300 members, meaning only 300 hotels have hotel license, In this interview she stated 800 members,

 

How on earth they managed to triple the number of members in such a short time when licenses are not being issued and people are told "backlogged"