Fighting For Our Rights In Thailand!

[Dutchy]

How about we send a a peition to the immigration office at Sathon about us expaites not statisfyied we their racist immigration polices. Even if they ignore us and don't respone at least they how we feel.

Your font size is a bit annoying britainmale, by shouting you don't get anywhere. Try behaving like that at Thai immigration, we'd all understand why they wouldn't want to give you pr then....

Dutchy

[britainmal]

Sorry, about the font size it was a mistake.

[Artisi]

Be aware that the staff at Sathorn do in fact monitor a lot of what is said in Thaivisa.com - so you do yourselves no favours by "bad-mouthing" everyone and everything.

For myself. I have never had a problem in dealing with the staff at Sathorn when applying for visa's, sourcing information or submitting my 90 day notification. Remember, they are doing a job and having to work within the rules set down, whether we agree with them (the rules) or not, so being polite and considerate to the staff gets the same returned.

Being an ###### or going dressed like you were just rescued from being deserted on a desert island for 5 years certainly doesn't win any friends or favours.

[camerata]

The land ownership is an issue that sticks in the craw of many farangs in Thailand. If farangs were allowed to own land, what I see happening is that farangs (and large companies) would quickly buy up all the prime land at prices that are much more than the worth of the land.I would like to see changes that would make it more convenient for farangs to live in LOS for extended periods of time without the hassles of the current visa laws. However, realistically, I do not expect those things to get any better in my lifetime.

Interestingly, the land ownership laws that stick in the craw of so many farang were originally drawn up specifically to keep Chinese and Vietnamese males from immigrating, marrying a Thai and getting control of Thai land. It was feared they would form the proverbial communist "fifth column" inside the country.

[thaimee]

Thanx for that insight camerata.

This thread for future reference.

Thaimee.

[camerata]

Most folks have the wrong story abouyt Residency- and citizenship. It is easy to QUALIFY to APPLY for residency - and they do have a quota of 100 per nationality per year. But - they are EXTREMELY selective in actually approving residency - this year, only nine (9) non-Asians have made it to the final selection process - and those who made it have tremendous personal credentials here. Most applicants apply several times before being approved - if ever.

What is it about the selection process that makes it so difficult to get residency? On paper the requirements look pretty straightforward. If successful applicants have often applied several times, it seems to indicate the rejections were because of incorrect documents or procedure rather than being an unsuitable applicant.

[britainmal]

Actually, we would go to Sathon immigration office to peition the immigration authoirities in a nice and respecful manner just becaue we disagree does not mean we have to be rude to them. Also , we would peition the officials that can change the laws not the employees that are just there to do paperwork.

[samran]

then the only person(s) worth petitioning is the Ministers of Interior and Labour, and probably the head of immigration police too.

As one who used to work in the Thai civil service, I wish you all the very best.

[Bobcat]

Indo-Siam - where do you get your information about only 9 non-asians being accepted to the final processing stage for the last batch of PR applications?

[thaigene2]

No, not funny, but yes very R-a-c-i-s-t!! Even the not so high-class Thai people have no rights!! Unfortunately the Kingdom is part owned by a few rich Thai-Chinese families. They are the corruptors of opportunity and human dignity!

Oh, Welcome to Amazing Thailand.

Thaimee. 

Right on Thai Mee. Agree 100%. However on the bigger question of "our rights here"..Indo-Thai is right. If we don't like it too bad. I don't think Thailand is out of line to want to keep out the Farang Kee Nok (their term for farang losers - means 'bird sh*t'). There are already enough Thai 'losers' (e.g. no connections, no crony family influence - you know 90 % of Thais, right Thaimee?) .."they" don't need pennyless foreigners too. The other thing that is racist, is that the foreigners from neighbouring countries appear to 'know their place' where we foreigners are perceived as a bit of a pain in the arse.

There is, however, a way to get our issues onto the govt agenda. But it takes careful planning and a professional approach like those used by more successful pressure groups.

The way it is done is by making them see that our agenda is their agenda, in other words think of a way to make the gov't see it is in the THAI INTEREST to change something.

The other way is to be confrontational which doesn't really work in this society. It's the seeming consensus which fools so many foreign companies into thinking they have an amicable partnership..while we all see the corporate corpses of those who have misjudged and been taken to the cleaners by the Thai-Chinese families Thaimee mentioned! (Carlsberg, Pizza Hut, several banks, a certain American partner of a very rich Thai telecoms company!). This isn't Thailand for Thais. It's Thailand for one or two dozen extremely rich and powerful families.

However, in Thaksin's 'Nationalist' Thailand (nationalist when it comes to getting votes), a farang stomping his feet and making lots of noise would be used to furtherThaksin's nationalist agenda in traditional scapegoat fashion..'the foreigners are a problem. we will deal with them.' I don't think we are too far away from that card being played here. But maybe I'm just getting paranoid.

[Indo-Siam]

Bobcat - I know one of the nine who made it that far this year.

I think people have the wrong idea about residency - they think it is like a non-immigrant entry permit extension, or work permit. For both of those types of permits, if you meet qulaifications, and your paperwork is in order, you basically get approved.

Such is not the case with residency. The government is quite selective - more so in recent years than in the past. Here is what I understand about the nine westerners who made it through final screening this year:

* Most of them have been in Thailand 10 years or more

* Most (or all) of them read, write, and speak Thai reasonably fluently

* Several are women

* Most have served time as a monk (or nun) in a wat

* Most (or all) have a sponsoring Thai such as a member of Royal Family, cabinet minister, or very senior Buddhist monk

* Most (or all) have delivered distinguished service - either as educators, or to charity, or to the Buddhist faith, or to the Thai government

* The youngest is perhaps 39 or 40 years old. Several are 60 or older.

Residency is NOT the case of - "well, I've now been here three years on consecutive long-term extensions - whew, I am tired of scraping through - thank God I can now get residency, so that I can live happily ever after with my ex-bg girlfriend." You have to have distinguished service, or some clout behind you.

I'm not sure how long things have been like this. I think as recently as maybe five years ago, if you were married to a Thai, with kids in a thai school, a reasonable job, and you spoke Thai - residency was fairly automatic - if someone had been here 10 years or so.

I know that there are a handful of people active on this board who have received residency - I would be interested to hear if any of them have knowledge of ANYONE ever actually getting residency with just four or five years worth of consecutive one-year extensions.

Indo-Siam

[pipchatel]

I think I read some place if Thais have a grievence, and if they can get 1000? signitures and send it to the government and it must be addressed.

Well why not a petition of all long term Farangs on the site(say here more than 2/3 years) to the government/ ministry requesting more rights. It could also have secondary petition attached with all the Thai spouses, families, friends, etc.

It could well amount to a good size petition, send it to mr Taxsin would be best!!!!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

How about we send a a peition to the immigration office at Sathon about us expaites not statisfyied we their racist immigration polices. Even if they ignore us and don't respone at least they how we feel.

Self flagellation has a lot more chance of success. Does anyone here really think that a loose association of foreign whingers will have the Thai government make major policy changes.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

then the only person(s) worth petitioning is the Ministers of Interior and Labour, and probably the head of immigration police too.

As one who used to work in the Thai civil service, I wish you all the very best.

I think that you might agree with my post above Chris. Rabble rousing is totally unproductive.

[samran]

How about we send a a peition to the immigration office at Sathon about us expaites not statisfyied we their racist immigration polices.  Even if they ignore us and don't respone at least they how we feel.

Self flagellation has a lot more chance of success. Does anyone here really think that a loose association of foreign whingers will have the Thai government make major policy changes.

There are many not-so-mysterious ways of getting things done in Thailand (that don't involve money I might add). A petition by a bunch of whinging farangs isn't one of them.

I would wager a years salary that any moves to do petition such as the one suggested would be counter productive and actually promt authorities to simply raise the bar higher in terms of gaining residency to the detriment of those who are doing things the right way.

Indo-Siam actually has a lot of good points and I like his comment

Residency is NOT the case of - "well, I've now been here three years on consecutive long-term extensions - whew, I am tired of scraping through - thank God I can now get residency, so that I can live happily ever after with my ex-bg girlfriend." You have to have distinguished service, or some clout behind you.

Its a bit like the John Howard approach to becoming Prime Minister, hang around long enough and they'll eventually pick you. Problem is, that approach doesn't necessarily produce the best candidates.

An Australian friend of mine is one of these people and has devoted himself to Thailand for many years at the highest levels and is applying for PR. Although he was rejected last year over a paper work technicality, he has reapplied without fuss and I am sure he will get this time around. He has worked co-operatively with the Suan Phlu people to make sure that his application has all the i's dotted and t's crossed this time. He also has has immaculate personal references which I am sure will help him get through.

I would be absloutely devistated if some rabble rousers stuffed the chances of people like him who truely deserve Thai residency.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Rabble rousing will confirm what the Government is beginning to think about the foreigners residing in the Kingdom.

[taxexile]

Rabble rousing will confirm what the Government is beginning to think about the foreigners residing in the Kingdom.

rabble rousing will also confirm what a lot of foriegners here think about many of the other foriegners residing here.

if its not to your liking here, then move on.

Actually, we would go to Sathon immigration office to peition the immigration authoirities in a nice and respecful manner just becaue we disagree does not mean we have to be rude to them. Also , we would peition the officials that can change the laws not the employees that are just there to do paperwork.

would you put your signature ,address and passport number on that petition ??

[mbkudu]

The land ownership is an issue that sticks in the craw of many farangs in Thailand. If farangs were allowed to own land, what I see happening is that farangs (and large companies) would quickly buy up all the prime land at prices that are much more than the worth of the land.I would like to see changes that would make it more convenient for farangs to live in LOS for extended periods of time without the hassles of the current visa laws. However, realistically, I do not expect those things to get any better in my lifetime.

Interestingly, the land ownership laws that stick in the craw of so many farang were originally drawn up specifically to keep Chinese and Vietnamese males from immigrating, marrying a Thai and getting control of Thai land. It was feared they would form the proverbial communist "fifth column" inside the country.

It was also drawn up to keep Japanese occupiers from buying up land as well.

You have to admit that they are not discriminating; they are not letting any foreigners buy land. Sometimes I think Farangs believe they are somehow priveledged for some reason, when in fact many Asians and Africans are in the same boat.

[snowleopard]

Most folks have the wrong story abouyt Residency- and citizenship.  It is easy to QUALIFY to APPLY for residency - and they do have a quota of 100 per nationality per year.  But - they are EXTREMELY selective in actually approving residency - this year, only nine (9) non-Asians have made it to the final selection process - and those who made it have tremendous personal credentials here.  Most applicants apply several times before being approved - if ever. 

What is it about the selection process that makes it so difficult to get residency? On paper the requirements look pretty straightforward. If successful applicants have often applied several times, it seems to indicate the rejections were because of incorrect documents or procedure rather than being an unsuitable applicant.

I got mine on the first shot!

Of course,it was some years ago and I had to wait almost two years for the decision.

They might have played that waiting game in the hope of my throwing in the towel and giving up the fight!?

When they found out that I was a die-hard survivalist and non-quitter with lots of perseverance,it finally dawned on them that I probably belong here on the Realm's holy territory;so they acquiesced to my permanence!

All the power lies in the hands of the Ministry of the Interior so it doesn't help to petition the Immigration Bureau!

Aim at the bull's eye!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[Dutchy]

No offense but what is a snowleopard doing in Thailand....?

Dutchy

[snowleopard]

No offense but what is a snowleopard doing in Thailand....?

Dutchy

Howdy Dutchy,

Looking for prey to sate and hopefully satiate its insatiable appetite!

It's an endangered species up in the north due to habitat loss and poaching!

Now it's found a survival niche with new hunting grounds down here in the Tropics and has adapted amazingly well to this "Amazing Realm".

This is mainly because of the enlightened Buddhists who say "Live and Let Live!

Hope this answer is good enough until I think of a better one!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

No offense but what is a snowleopard doing in Thailand....?

Dutchy

Howdy Dutchy,

Looking for prey to sate and hopefully satiate its insatiable appetite!

It's an endangered species up in the north due to habitat loss and poaching!

Now it's found a survival niche with new hunting grounds down here in the Tropics and has adapted amazingly well to this "Amazing Realm".

This is mainly because of the enlightened Buddhists who say "Live and Let Live!

Hope this answer is good enough until I think of a better one!

Cheers.

Snowleopard.

As a PR of this fair land Snowleopard, we accept entirely your answer. Good luck to you. Polite perseverance is the way to go.

[Bobcat]

Indo-Siam - very interesting information you have provided with respect to the 9 non-asians who have passed to the final selection stage for this round of PR applications. Are you certain that your information is accurate? I spoke to my contact at immigration earlier this week and he informed me that there were significantly more than 9 non-asians approved for PR this year. He said the number was around 40. Apparently, the approval process was much quicker this year than in previous years. I understand that the papaers are now only waiting for approval from the Minister of the Interior.

In any event, it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[bangkokblue]

Those that whinge about the thai system of things are in my mind little travelled and/or have the experience of non other than a easy option too an alternative lifestyle of which thailand is one. As one member pointed out compare it with Japan or quite simply your second choice if LOS is your first and then ask yourself the question does it really matter. You love the LOS because the thai people have given you that option but with terms, do you accept.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Those that whinge about the thai system of things are in my mind little travelled and/or have the experience of non other than a easy option too an alternative lifestyle of which thailand is one. As one member pointed out compare it with Japan or quite simply your second choice if LOS is your first and then ask yourself the question does it really matter. You love the LOS because the thai people have given you that option but with terms, do you accept.

Very well put Blue. You can stay but there are a few conditions. Abide by those conditions and enjoy life. Alas, there are so many that don't want to abide by the conditions, and then are bewildered and upset by the outcomes.

[Axel]

Ever tried to join a club? If you like it become a guest member to check it out, study their rules and by-laws.

Work for a company, try to get an interview, submit your CV.

In neither case you tell them, I will join but only under my rules.

Once you are accepted, you might be able to get promoted or accepted for higher level and mightr propose changes to others, you colleagues or members.

Somehow I think it is the same to come and live in Thailand, or any oither country. Find out if it is really what you want, learn about their conditions and acccept it or not. The country at one point in your life might accept you as a citizen, under it's own rules. Than you might, just might, be able to change the laws or the constitution.

[4iner]

Thailand is overall a great place to live. Hence many of us have chosen it as #1 choice as a home. But it is not perfect, just like every where else in the world there is room for improvement. If you don't believe that you should cut down on your sleeping medication because you are not awake.

As for fighting for our rights, which I see as a way to "improve our situation" that would imply that we actually have rights. I truly do not believe we have rights here we are just tolerated, some more than others based upon how worthwhile our positive contribution to Thai society is seen by those in power.

I love it here, which is why I choose to live here, But if we lose significant "rights" or are tolerated considerably less I will of course consider residing in a more welcoming country, not my first choice but an option none the less.

Want to make your voice heard. Go spend "contribute" elsewhere. As you probably well know it is sometimes easier to appreciate what you have lost, than what you still have, If the Thai Government loses ypur "contributions" they would appreciate you more.

Bottom line I truly feel the contibutions of the long term Visitors/Expats/Foreign residents etc. is extremely under apprectiated.

How can we change that?

[Dutchy]

Want to make your voice heard. Go spend "contribute" elsewhere. As you probably well know it is sometimes easier to appreciate what you have lost, than what you still have, If the Thai Government loses ypur "contributions" they would appreciate you more.

Bottom line I truly feel the contibutions of the long term Visitors/Expats/Foreign residents etc. is extremely under apprectiated.

How can we change that?

by following your advice I guess.... A wellknown member wrote on another thread that he's making a living in Japan and plans to retire in Thailand. I guess that's the best option, the Thais can perfectly take care of them selves. I also do not agree with the idea that we have to contribute something to Thailand, it's always a dual relationship. You buy something, you pay, and you'll get something back. We only pay, that what we get back has nothing to do with official regulations..

So I guess 4iner's advice is not bad at all.....

Dutchy

[britainmal]

We seem to have people here that just like to say something negative to this cause. To all you people including the devil himself Patpong and Samran , I recently read in Bangkok post opinion section that some Thai people have been voicing their opinions against the current Thai citizenship laws. So, that is a blow to all of you who think we should just do nothing. Peitioning the Thai governemnt is not wrong because this is how a lot people make their voices known in many countires including Hong KONG SAR. If you do not have anything to say positive about this cause then please don't commit.

[Dutchy]

To all you people including the devil himself Patpong and Samran ,

oh la la Britainmale, that's a bit too much. This is a message board and not everybody agrees with you. People have different opinions, that's a fact of life. Why don't you go to immigration yourself to protest? We will all read about it next day on Thaivisa.com and give you our honest opinion. What you're doing now doesn't bring your case forward at all, it's in fact a stagnant situation.

If nothing serious happens you may never get your PR, you would be posting here forever. Please protest where your voice will be heard by decision makers!

Dutchy