Trump tells Kim a 'terrific relationship' beckons as summit begins

[bristolboy]

Just now, thaibeachlovers said:

So you have to agree that it has been a success for Trump. No one is saying it was a failure.

Trump wins again. 

I'm guessing you think you just said something either perceptive or witty. Or are you just badly confused?

Let's say a jury is still out, and supporters of the defendant maintain they're going to return a verdict of innocent. And supporters of the government case say nothing. Does the supporters' prediction qualify as evidence?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obama lied many times ( if you like your Dr you can keep your Dr etc etc etc ), but was given a pass by Obama supporters. Why shouldn't Trump supporters have the same "right"?

But Obama... But nobody lies with the frequency or the blatant disregard for truth that Trump does. Nobody even comes close. Obama's falsehood sticks in everyone mind because it was rare. Trump lies 6.5 times per day. So it's hard for a particular falsehood to stand out.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

I'm guessing you think you just said something either perceptive or witty. Or are you just badly confused?

Let's say a jury is still out, and supporters of the defendant maintain they're going to return a verdict of innocent. And supporters of the government case say nothing. Does the supporters' prediction qualify as evidence?

They had a meeting which may lead to something, and signed a document.

Ergo, the meeting was a success.

What did you expect?

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, ravip said:

Even with all the criticisms aimed at Trump, he has achieved something others could not.

Morch : Why are you confused about this post ?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

They had a meeting which may lead to something, and signed a document.

Ergo, the meeting was a success.

What did you expect?

In that case, previous negotiations with the Kim family were also a success.. After all, papers were signed then, too.

As for what I expected? This is exactly what I expected. Nothing of substance accomplished and Trump claiming success.

 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, bristolboy said:

In that case, previous negotiations with the Kim family were also a success.. After all, papers were signed then, too.

As for what I expected? This is exactly what I expected. Nothing of substance accomplished and Trump claiming success.

 

I agree but what's different now is that NK now has an in place and significant nuclear program. They can bargain based on that and things might actually change, but to expect the gold standard of them giving up what got them there is foolhardy. The realistic goal should be similar to an IRAN deal. 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

In that case, previous negotiations with the Kim family were also a success.. After all, papers were signed then, too.

As for what I expected? This is exactly what I expected. Nothing of substance accomplished and Trump claiming success.

 

You are talking about long term accomplishments. I am referring to the meeting.

Yes, previous negotiations were also successful as far as the meetings were concerned. Certainly the politicians involved claimed success.

[Berkshire]

2 hours ago, impulse said:

 

Hard to say, but by my count in the post above, 12 presidents have had 60+ years to try one tack.  Without success.

 

Maybe it's time to try a different one?

 

"Without success....?"  They've managed to avoid war in the Korean peninsula, which is pretty good.  All Trump had to do was keep his mouth shut and he could have done the same.  But now he's successfully hoisted Kim Jong Un and N Korea to the level of world superpower.  Have to admit, the previous 12 Presidents haven't been able to do THAT.   

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

In that case, previous negotiations with the Kim family were also a success.. After all, papers were signed then, too.

As for what I expected? This is exactly what I expected. Nothing of substance accomplished and Trump claiming success.

 

The situation is different this time , history doesnt always repeat itself and NK seem quite sincere in their quest for a peaceful outcome

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Berkshire said:

"Without success....?"  They've managed to avoid war in the Korean peninsula, which is pretty good.  All Trump had to do was keep his mouth shut and he could have done the same.  But now he's successfully hoisted Kim Jong Un and N Korea to the level of world superpower.  Have to admit, the previous 12 Presidents haven't been able to do THAT.   

LOL. Even the Kims that ran the country knew that if they started a war with nuclear armed US they'd lose.

 

[sanemax]

Just now, Berkshire said:

"Without success....?"  They've managed to avoid war in the Korean peninsula, which is pretty good.  All Trump had to do was keep his mouth shut and he could have done the same.  But now he's successfully hoisted Kim Jong Un and N Korea to the level of world superpower.  Have to admit, the previous 12 Presidents haven't been able to do THAT.   

Are North Korea a World superpower now ?

Does a meeting with Trump make a Country a world super power ?

This may have bought NK out of obscurity and no longer being a secretive state , but, that is of benefit to the World

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

The situation is different this time , history doesnt always repeat itself and NK seem quite sincere in their quest for a peaceful outcome

Amazing what real sanctions can achieve. Only put in since Trump became president.

[lannarebirth]

10 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

In that case, previous negotiations with the Kim family were also a success.. After all, papers were signed then, too.

As for what I expected? This is exactly what I expected. Nothing of substance accomplished and Trump claiming success.

 

 

Assuming something doesn't derail it in the interim, this meeting has led to the agreement to hold future meetings with the goal of de-escalation and perhaps de-nuclearization (whatever that means). I would count that as a success given the expectations.  If the expectations had been higher I would still call it a limited success. 

[Jingthing]

I think overall the meeting is a good thing. I don't like legitimizing a horrible murderous dictator like Kim but that's his reward for succeeding in building a significant nuclear program. Why he would ever fully give that up given what he's already achieved and that regime preservation is always priority one in NK is a question I can't answer. 

 

For "trump" to a lesser degree, this is also about regime preservation. He clearly reckons the PR from this meeting will save his presidency. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[lannarebirth]

7 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

"Without success....?"  They've managed to avoid war in the Korean peninsula, which is pretty good.  All Trump had to do was keep his mouth shut and he could have done the same.  But now he's successfully hoisted Kim Jong Un and N Korea to the level of world superpower.  Have to admit, the previous 12 Presidents haven't been able to do THAT.   

 

I don't think you'll be seeing North Korea in attendence at the next G-7 meeting. Or G-20 or G-50 or G-100.

[lannarebirth]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I think overall the meeting is a good thing. I don't like legitimizing a horrible murderous dictator like Kim but that's his reward for succeeding in building a significant nuclear program. Why he would ever fully give that up given what he's already achieved and the regime preservation is always priority one in NK is a question I can't answer. 

 

Xi and Putin are horrible, murderous dictators and we hold meetings with them. In fact we do hundreds of billions of dollars of trade with them despite their human rights abuses.

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, lannarebirth said:

 

Xi and Putin are horrible, murderous dictators and we hold meetings with them. In fact we do hundreds of billions of dollars of trade with them despite their human rights abuses.

Well said.

Nixon met with the murderous leaders of China and opened the door for them to take over the world ( as I see them doing within 100 years ), and everyone claimed it was a great success.

The western leaders feted Stalin during the war, a man responsible for the deaths of many millions of his own citizens.

[tubby johnson]

[Opl]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Amazing what real sanctions can achieve. Only put in since Trump became president.

 

The real dictator and the best deal breaker shake hand to get what they want: food for the first and voters for the second.
Live Trump Show goes on. 
So does NK dictatorship .

""But it is an image that will be seen by the relatives of North Korean political prisoners, defectors who escaped to freedom, despots around the world considering their own nuclear programs. It is an image that can never be taken back."

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/12/asia/singapore-summit-intl/index.html

[ballpoint]

I await the photo of Trump returning to Washington, waving the piece of paper they signed and declaring "Peace in our time".

[Jingthing]

Even though I totally detest "trump" and don't think he should be anywhere near the Oval office, objectively, even though there is almost nothing of substance in the signed agreement, the summit can be seen as a success as the bare minimum of an agreement was signed, there are announcements to move forward over time, and even though this was clearly choreographed not to fail, it didn't totally fail (and of course it could have). 

So I'll give the commander of Chaos credit for this. For all the MANY other things he's torn apart and made worse with no replacement, one small "success" early stages is the least he could accomplish. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

I await the photo of Trump returning to Washington, waving the piece of paper they signed and declaring "Peace in our time".

At the time, no one complained that Chamberlain met with a murderous thug to make a deal.

Seems times have changed.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

If a person were to say something that is untrue, of course this should be pointed out and the truth should be told , but what I meant was , say that it was Obama now in Singapore meeting with Kim , would all the anti-Trump brigade still be as critical as they are now or would they have a different opinion ?

  I do believe that the anti-Trump brigade would have a completely different stance , praising  Obama for his efforts to bring a peaceful conclusion to the conflict .

   Judge people on their actions , rather than just constant criticism of people you dont like 

 

Don't know what you meant to say, it sure did come out like a variation on "but but but Obama".

 

You wish to ignore Trump's troubled relationship with telling the truth? Go right ahead. You wish to deny all them instances Trump flip flopped on statements? No problem. That you insist on ignoring Trump track record doesn't hold much water, as arguments go. Not one solid reason other than bringing up Obama.

 

What you call the "anti-Trump brigade" would probably go easy on Obama, under such circumstances. I suspect that other than politics, this would have something to do with the man's character - some happen to think such things matter.

 

As for judging actions - what actions? A photo op? A handshake? Another self-aggrandizing boast? I'll say it again - the meeting is a first step, whether it will lead anywhere remains to be seen. IMO, Trump's record on such things is far from proven (to put it mildly), so no particular reason for applause, yet.

 

[Morch]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Obama lied many times ( if you like your Dr you can keep your Dr etc etc etc ), but was given a pass by Obama supporters. Why shouldn't Trump supporters have the same "right"?

 

Obama didn't lie "many times". And nowhere near as much as Trump does. Them alternative facts at it again.

Edited June 12, 2018 by Morch

[Morch]

58 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Morch : Why are you confused about this post ?

 

Because I don't think he (Trump) "achieved something others could not". Other than a photo-op, what was actually "achieved"? And I mean from the US point of view, not Trump's nor Kim's.

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Because I don't think he (Trump) "achieved something others could not". Other than a photo-op, what was actually "achieved"? And I mean from the US point of view, not Trump's nor Kim's.

Yes, he did achieve giving the NK leader the parity with a U.S. president that they've been aching for for decades. It's possible (only possible) that this gift to NK (they had to be taken seriously now based on their advanced nuclear program) might pay future dividends in peace, but surely no guarantees or even likelihoods.

History will judge this by what happens over time. I'll give it to "trump" to a take a bold risk giving NK this propaganda victory because maybe this was the best chance for real progress, but way to early to be at all certain that this big risk will actually lead there. 

Edited June 12, 2018 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Because I don't think he (Trump) "achieved something others could not". Other than a photo-op, what was actually "achieved"? And I mean from the US point of view, not Trump's nor Kim's.

Defused the whole aggressive , confrontational attitude from the area : North Korea , South Korea , Japan , USA , E.U , China were all squaring up to each other with a possible conflict between USA & China all because of the actions of NK.

    This meeting quite possibly will put an end to hostilities .

Adverting a world war and bringing peace to the region is quite an achievement 

[tonbridgebrit]

This is it, this is brilliant. It doesn't get better than this.

Donald Trump, yes, you have caused problems for America and planet earth, but you are now in Singapore, and you're talking to North Korea Kim. This photo shows it. This makes up for all the problems and aggro that you previously created. Yes, Donald Trump, you are the dog's bolla___s.

Hillary Clinton would never have done this. Trump is actually a man of peace.

Edited June 12, 2018 by tonbridgebrit

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Defused the whole aggressive , confrontational attitude from the area : North Korea , South Korea , Japan , USA , E.U , China were all squaring up to each other with a possible conflict between USA & China all because of the actions of NK.

    This meeting quite possibly will put an end to hostilities .

Adverting a world war and bringing peace to the region is quite an achievement 

 

You're simply making stuff up. This did not happen, but may happen. In time.

There was no World War averted, and tensions between some Asian countries (notably, China) didn't go anywhere.

[sanemax]

17 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Don't know what you meant to say, it sure did come out like a variation on "but but but Obama".

Just to address that point : I simply asked the question about whether the anti-Trump brigade would have a different opinion of the meeting in Singapore, had it been Obama there instead of Trump .

   Would the Obama supporting anti-Trump brigade have poured so much scorn on Obama , had he been there instead of Trump ?