United Nations condemns excessive Israeli force against Palestinians

[webfact]

United Nations condemns excessive Israeli force against Palestinians

By Michelle Nichols

 

Israeli Ambassador to the United Nations Danny Danon addresses a United Nations General Assembly meeting ahead of a vote on a draft resolution that would deplore the use of excessive force by Israeli troops against Palestinian civilians at U.N. headquarters in New York, U.S., June 13, 2018. REUTERS/Mike Segar

 

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - The U.N. General Assembly condemned Israel on Wednesday for excessive use of force against Palestinian civilians and asked U.N. chief Antonio Guterres to recommend an "international protection mechanism" for occupied Palestinian territory.

 

The General Assembly adopted a resolution with 120 votes in favour, eight against and 45 abstentions. It was put forward in the General Assembly by Algeria, Turkey and the Palestinians after the United States vetoed a similar resolution in the 15-member U.N. Security Council earlier this month.

 

The General Assembly text condemned the firing of rockets from Gaza into Israeli civilian areas, but did not mention Hamas, the Islamist group that controls Gaza. General Assembly resolutions are not legally binding but carry political weight.

 

"The nature of this resolution clearly demonstrates that politics is driving the day. It is totally one-sided. It makes not one mention of the Hamas terrorists who routinely initiate the violence in Gaza," U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley told the General Assembly before the vote.

 

The United States failed in a bid to amend the resolution with a paragraph that would have condemned violence by Hamas.

 

"By supporting this resolution you are colluding with a terrorist organisation, by supporting this resolution you are empowering Hamas," Israel's U.N. Ambassador Danny Danon told the General Assembly before the vote.

 

More than 120 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces in Gaza border protests since March 30. The largest number of deaths occurred on May 14, the day the United States moved its embassy in Israel to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

 

Amid international condemnation of its use of lethal force, Israel said many of the dead were militants and that the Israeli army was repelling attacks on the border fence between Israel and Gaza. Washington has maintained Israel's right to defend itself and refrained from joining calls for Israeli restraint.

 

Palestinians and their supporters said most protesters were unarmed civilians and Israel used excessive force against them.

"We need protection of our civilian population," Palestinian U.N. envoy Riyad Mansour told the General Assembly before the vote, adding that the resolution was "intended to contribute to a de-escalation of the volatile situation."

 

"We cannot remain silent in the face of the most violent crimes and human rights violations being systematically perpetrated against our people," Mansour said.

 

The resolution asked Guterres to report back within 60 days on proposals "on ways and means for ensuring the safety, protection and well-being of the Palestinian civilian population under Israeli occupation, including ... recommendations regarding an international protection mechanism."

 

In December 128 countries defied President Donald Trump and voted in favour of a U.N. General Assembly resolution calling for the United States to drop its recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital.

 

(Reporting by Michelle Nichols; Editing by James Dalgleish)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-14

[ezzra]

The UN has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite and under pressure from the arab/muslim members, the UN can go on condemning Israel as much as they like, the bottom line is that Israel is fighting for its survival and existence in a sea of hostile terrorists and misguided Palestinians,

as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership, and be sent to be a sniper's fodder, they will continue to suffer and the UN will continue to condemn Israel...

[ChidlomDweller]

5 minutes ago, ezzra said:

The UN has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite and under pressure from the arab/muslim members, the UN can go on condemning Israel as much as they like, the bottom line is that Israel is fighting for its survival and existence in a sea of hostile terrorists and misguided Palestinians,

as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership, and be sent to be a sniper's fodder, they will continue to suffer and the UN will continue to condemn Israel...

Says who?!  Nearly all Europeans and a majority of Americans I talk to hate Israel now, and well deserved because of its behavior.

[ezzra]

2 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Says who?!  Nearly all Europeans and a majority of Americans I talk to hate Israel now, and well deserved because of its behavior.

Don't know who your friends are, but hating Israel is nothing new, Israel and the jews were hated and persecuted  since the dawn of time and long before any  palestinian were ever came to be...

There are 54 Arab/muslim countries in the world, and many more with a large vocal and belligerent muslim populations, and only one state of Israel, those who voted to condemn Israel doing it out of politic and economic preferences and nothing more, they're intimidated by the vast resources and selling/buying powers and the fear of terrorism hitting their cities if they vote against it...

Edited June 14, 2018 by ezzra

[carmine]

The UN vote is a very fair reflection of europes views of the Israeli behavior.  of course they won't be pulled into line because the current Trump administration won't allow it.  I suppose they want Israel onside for when they want their next piece of dirty work carried out in the region.  

 

Perhaps someone else is getting invaded soon, in the name of freedom or some other bullshit like that, because the last month at the UN Assembly has been quite humiliating for Trump yet they plough on with the same flawed rhetoric that no ones buying into.

[car720]

A toothless tiger telling a snake not to slither into its territory.  They are a joke.

[rudi49jr]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

The UN has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite and under pressure from the arab/muslim members, the UN can go on condemning Israel as much as they like, the bottom line is that Israel is fighting for its survival and existence in a sea of hostile terrorists and misguided Palestinians,

as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership, and be sent to be a sniper's fodder, they will continue to suffer and the UN will continue to condemn Israel...

'as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership'

 

Maybe that should read: as long as the Israelis are being led by brutal and murderous want-to-be dictators like Bibi ...

 

[carmine]

3 hours ago, ezzra said:

The UN has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite and under pressure from the arab/muslim members, the UN can go on condemning Israel as much as they like, the bottom line is that Israel is fighting for its survival and existence in a sea of hostile terrorists and misguided Palestinians,

as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership, and be sent to be a sniper's fodder, they will continue to suffer and the UN will continue to condemn Israel...

Actually, in this instance, the UN has actually recovered some of its moral legitimacy.  Everyone is appalled and sick to death of Israel's attempts to justify their vile behavior.

 

Israelis global reputation under the brutal and flawed leadership of Netanyahu is getting flushed down the toilet. 

 

What is astonishing the manner in which the US ambassador carries on with the same flawed, lying rhetoric, obviously because her bullying narcissistic boss tells her to, in the face of ever mounting disdain from the rest of the assembly.  Its almost painful to watch!!

Edited June 14, 2018 by carmine

[nobodysfriend]

It was about time for this move by the UN .

An " international protection mechanism " , is badly needed , send a UN Peace force to document what really happens at the border ...

Israel has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite , aggressive and overreacting to provocations by Hamas > that's exactly what Hamas wants .

Hamas is sacrificing the lives of it's own people just to ruin Israel's reputation in the world ... they would not need to do this , Israel alone is taking good care of it already .

The State of Israel had got to learn to live in the same atmosphere of free criticism which every other state in the world must endure...

[dexterm]

The world (120-8) overwhelmingly condemns Israel for its crimes and failure to explain why over 120 have been killed including 15 children, 2 clearly identifiable press and 2 medics in uniform with over 13,000 injured some crippled for life. And asks for some "international protection mechanism" for occupied Palestinians so that it does not happen again and again. But such a measure would probably have to go through the UN Security Council, where no doubt USA would cover for Israel again by using its veto.

 

If this were some tremendous plot by Hamas why did the IDF so willingly oblige to pull the trigger to kill so many unarmed civilians?

 

The rocket business is a red herring by Haley muddying the timeline to give the impression that Israel was somehow justified in the massacring so many at the fence as though it were some sort of response to rockets being fired. When in fact no rockets had been fired for almost 3 months before the Great March of Return began and the bulk of Israel's killing was perpetrated before any rockets had been fired at all.

 

30 March No rockets! Great March of Return began along with Israel's first murders ..15 killed that day
21 May No rockets! 112 killed so far of whom 13 were under 18, 13,190 Injured more at..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Gaza_border_protests#Casualties_and_damage
29 May First rockets fired  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2018

 

I regard any rockets fired in the aftermath as a waste of time and counterproductive, mere lashing out in anger and frustration that the West does nothing to stop Israel's brutal crimes.

I do not condone the firing of rockets because it's futile compared with Israel's vast military machine, they could hit innocent Israeli civilians (putting them on a par with the IDF), and of course it gives Haley and other Israeli apologists an excuse to deflect from the monstrous crimes that Israel has committed.

Edited June 14, 2018 by dexterm

[carmine]

9 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

It was about time for this move by the UN .

An " international protection mechanism " , is badly needed , send a UN Peace force to document what really happens at the border ...

Israel has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite , aggressive and overreacting to provocations by Hamas > that's exactly what Hamas wants .

Hamas is sacrificing the lives of it's own people just to ruin Israel's reputation in the world ... they would not need to do this , Israel alone is taking good care of it already .

The State of Israel had got to learn to live in the same atmosphere of free criticism which every other state in the world must endure...

In short Israel has to stop indescriminently  murdering innocent women and children and laying the blame for their action on others.  Why are sanctions not being imposed, same as is down to other states that break international law?  They are being allowed to behave in their barbaric way because the American administration condones it.  

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, ezzra said:

The UN has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite and under pressure from the arab/muslim members, the UN can go on condemning Israel as much as they like, the bottom line is that Israel is fighting for its survival and existence in a sea of hostile terrorists and misguided Palestinians,

as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership, and be sent to be a sniper's fodder, they will continue to suffer and the UN will continue to condemn Israel...

Hypocrites?

You would have thought Jews, sorry Israelis, would have learned empathy and humility to other peoples, after what happened to them in the holocaust.

Nah, now the shoe, sorry, jackboot is on the other foot.

Disgusting country. It could and should be so much better.

Edited June 14, 2018 by thaiguzzi

[Morch]

6 hours ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Says who?!  Nearly all Europeans and a majority of Americans I talk to hate Israel now, and well deserved because of its behavior.

 

And "says who" would apply directly to your post as well. No idea who you talk to, in which capacity and under what circumstances. I guess the same comments form the likes of either @ezzra or @dexterm would yield very different results. IMO most people are more opinionated than informed, but maybe that's just my take.

[ChidlomDweller]

Eric Bahrt has a very good letter in the Nation newspaper today.  It's all common sense really, but one that's tirelessly being denied by rightwing Jews who prefer to confound criticism of the Likud party and other hardline factions with anti-semitism.  

[Morch]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

The UN has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite and under pressure from the arab/muslim members, the UN can go on condemning Israel as much as they like, the bottom line is that Israel is fighting for its survival and existence in a sea of hostile terrorists and misguided Palestinians,

as long as the Palestinian are being led by a brutal and murderous leadership, and be sent to be a sniper's fodder, they will continue to suffer and the UN will continue to condemn Israel...

 

The UN might be this or that, but that's no excuse for hyperbole.

 

Israel is hardly "fighting for its survival and existence" - it's pretty much an accepted fact that it is stronger than regional enemies, or equal to them. There is no "sea of hostile terrorists" threatening Israel's existence - there are terrorist groups and organizations posing a threat, yes. Existential - I think not. As for the supposed "brutal and murderous leadership" of the Palestinians - which one would this apply to? The Hamas? Alright. But then the Palestinian leadership is a contested issue, and I don't think the PA's description as "brutal and murderous" holds much water these days.

 

Israel does have a right to protect its borders, and is not obligated to unconditionally let a horde of Palestinians in. That said, there was obviously excessive force used to prevent such an eventuality. Whether other means would have been effective dealing with the situation, can be debated, though. And while Hamas does bear some of the responsibility for how things panned out, it doesn't fully excuse Israel's transgressions. Sometimes there are no perfect solutions, or even good ones.

[geriatrickid]

4 hours ago, carmine said:

The UN vote is a very fair reflection of europes views of the Israeli behavior.  of course they won't be pulled into line because the current Trump administration won't allow it.  I suppose they want Israel onside for when they want their next piece of dirty work carried out in the region.  

 

Perhaps someone else is getting invaded soon, in the name of freedom or some other bullshit like that, because the last month at the UN Assembly has been quite humiliating for Trump yet they plough on with the same flawed rhetoric that no ones buying into.

Is this the same Europe that saw Hungary erect that  razor wire fence, and Italy abandon those boat  refugees, both violating the UN agreements on refugees?

Is this the same Europe that has Afghan refugees in Greece forced into prostitution? Is this the same Europe that provoked the war in Libya causing the refugee crisis for which it refuses to accept responsibility? I could go on, but really, Europe isn't much of a moral force when it comes to these things.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, carmine said:

The UN vote is a very fair reflection of europes views of the Israeli behavior.  of course they won't be pulled into line because the current Trump administration won't allow it.  I suppose they want Israel onside for when they want their next piece of dirty work carried out in the region.  

 

Perhaps someone else is getting invaded soon, in the name of freedom or some other bullshit like that, because the last month at the UN Assembly has been quite humiliating for Trump yet they plough on with the same flawed rhetoric that no ones buying into.

 

European countries' votes were actually split between those supporting of the resolution and those abstaining. I don't know that this is quite what you had in mind when making the assertion. Hard to tell what you were on about in the first part, anyway.

[ChidlomDweller]

15 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

And "says who" would apply directly to your post as well. No idea who you talk to, in which capacity and under what circumstances. I guess the same comments form the likes of either @ezzra or @dexterm would yield very different results. IMO most people are more opinionated than informed, but maybe that's just my take.

Just read the comment section on related articles in the NY Times, when comments are turned on at all.  Sort comments by Popularity et voila...   And you can hardly accuse the NY Times of being an anti-semitist rag.  It's just that most people value fairness.  I know it's a very complicated issue and understand why Israelis have become hardened, but ultimately the onus is squarely on their shoulders to make reparations.  If they'd tireless done that the past 2 generations, this conflict would be mostly over by now.  

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Is this the same Europe that saw Hungary erect that  razor wire fence, and Italy abandon those boat  refugees, both violating the UN agreements on refugees?

Is this the same Europe that has Afghan refugees in Greece forced into prostitution? Is this the same Europe that provoked the war in Libya causing the refugee crisis for which it refuses to accept responsibility? I could go on, but really, Europe isn't much of a moral force when it comes to these things.

Doesn't make them wrong in this case.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, nobodysfriend said:

It was about time for this move by the UN .

An " international protection mechanism " , is badly needed , send a UN Peace force to document what really happens at the border ...

Israel has lost it's moral legitimacy long time ago by being bias, hypocrite , aggressive and overreacting to provocations by Hamas > that's exactly what Hamas wants .

Hamas is sacrificing the lives of it's own people just to ruin Israel's reputation in the world ... they would not need to do this , Israel alone is taking good care of it already .

The State of Israel had got to learn to live in the same atmosphere of free criticism which every other state in the world must endure...

 

To get your "point" straight - Israel is at fault for not ignoring Hamas "provocations"?

As for "the same atmosphere of free criticism which every other state in the world must endure" - you do realize that the UN doesn't actually carry as many meetings and resolutions on other conflict and crises, right? If anything, Israel is targeted by such way more than other countries. Cases in point, Syria, Sudan, Myanmar, China etc.

Edited June 14, 2018 by Morch

[Saladin]

It is disgrace that Australia was one of only 8 countries (the others being the US, Israel, and 5 Pacific Island nations) that voted against the resolution. As an Australian expat I am disgusted by the moral depths to which my country of birth has sunk. Fellow countrymen ask me "Aren't you proud to be Australian" to which I reply "No, I am not but Ia m grateful to be born an Australian". How can one be proud of a country that condones cold blooded mass murder - Australia is an Accessory After The Fact.

[Morch]

 

@dexterm

 

Your tally Conveniently leaving out 45 abstentions (many by countries hailing from what you often label the "civilized world"). Additionally, many of the other "civilized world" countries voting in support of resolution, did express their regrets it was not articulated in a more balanced manner.

 

I don't know that it was a "tremendous plot" by Hamas. Nor do I fall for you faux queries about the IDF supposedly "obliging".

 

Muddying the waters with regard to both facts and the timeline is something you repeatedly attempt on this and other topics. That you make rockets into the only form of Palestinian violence on offer, doesn't make it so. In the relevant time frame (before and during the protests), there were numerous incidents involving firearms, IED's and attempts to cross or sabotage the border fence. Quite a few of these were acknowledged by both the Hamas and the Islamic

[nobodysfriend]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

To get your "point" straight -"?

As for "the same atmosphere of free criticism which every other state in the world must endure" - you do realize that , right? If anything, Israel is targeted by such way more than other countries. Cases in point, Syria, Sudan, Myanmar, China etc.

Yes , Israel is at fault for not ignoring Hamas provocations , because it is just provocations ... should be mostly ignored by Israel , as it does not cause a lot of damage .

By overreacting violently Israel plays Hamas' game . Not very clever ...

 

Yes , the UN doesn't actually carry as many meetings and resolutions on other conflict and crises , because none of those conflicts can be compared to this one .

[Morch]

3 hours ago, carmine said:

In short Israel has to stop indescriminently  murdering innocent women and children and laying the blame for their action on others.  Why are sanctions not being imposed, same as is down to other states that break international law?  They are being allowed to behave in their barbaric way because the American administration condones it.  

 

The UN doesn't step up and get involved in all international crises, not even those more severe than the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I don't see many of the posters active in these "discussions" up in arms at every such instance.

[Rimmer]

Off topic baiting post and reply removed

[Morch]

24 minutes ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Just read the comment section on related articles in the NY Times, when comments are turned on at all.  Sort comments by Popularity et voila...   And you can hardly accuse the NY Times of being an anti-semitist rag.  It's just that most people value fairness.  I know it's a very complicated issue and understand why Israelis have become hardened, but ultimately the onus is squarely on their shoulders to make reparations.  If they'd tireless done that the past 2 generations, this conflict would be mostly over by now.  

 

Notice that I said nothing about antisemitism, you and other posters keep bringing it up, though. IMO, the NYT reader base is mostly what one would call left-wing or liberal - so the comments would be as expected. It's just an extension of your previous argument, nothing more. Pick another venue (say, Fox) and you'll get different reactions. Echo chambers are like that.

 

And allow me to reiterate most people are opinionated rather than informed. Take your own post as an example:

- It's a very complicated issue.

- If Israel would have made reparations in the past two generations, the conflict would be mostly over by now.

 

That's a very simplistic take on things, to put it mildly.

 

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Doesn't make them wrong in this case.

 

"Them" how? It's not like Europe unanimously supported the resolution.

[Morch]

16 minutes ago, nobodysfriend said:

Yes , Israel is at fault for not ignoring Hamas provocations , because it is just provocations ... should be mostly ignored by Israel , as it does not cause a lot of damage .

By overreacting violently Israel plays Hamas' game . Not very clever ...

 

Yes , the UN doesn't actually carry as many meetings and resolutions on other conflict and crises , because none of those conflicts can be compared to this one .

 

That you assert they are "just provocations" doesn't make it a fact. In the context of the current mass protests - would a mass breaching of the border fence and the assured ensuing mayhem be considered "just a provocation" as well?

 

I'm not claiming Israel's response was "clever", or that it didn't play into Hamas's hands. My point is that sometimes there are no great options.

 

As for your last bit of nonsense - are you for real? Sudan, Syria, Myanmar, and Tibet "cannot be compared" to this one? Pray tell why.

[ChidlomDweller]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

And allow me to reiterate most people are opinionated rather than informed. Take your own post as an example:

- It's a very complicated issue.

- If Israel would have made reparations in the past two generations, the conflict would be mostly over by now.

 

That's a very simplistic take on things, to put it mildly.

Basic outlines of this conflict have been around for long enough.  I've read up plenty on this conflict, but have no desire to spend an hour posting details we all know.  I've read books on the topic from both sides, and even did a work stint in Israel for 6 weeks where I visited the West bank.  Your argument strikes me as similar to the Thai pro-elite one that foreigners cannot possibly understand Thailand.  What I do agree is that people get opinionated.  Having heartless <deleted> like Netanyahu and Lieberman carry the word for has a way of making people opinionated.

Edited June 14, 2018 by ChidlomDweller

[Morch]

1 minute ago, ChidlomDweller said:

Basic outlines of this conflict have been around for long enough.  I've read up plenty on this conflict, but have no desire to spend an hour posting details we all know.  Your argument strikes me as similar to the Thai pro-elite one that foreigners cannot possibly understand Thailand.  

 

Your previous posts do not exactly inspire confidence that your take is indeed informed. I have said nothing about commenters being foreigners or not, that's just something you tossed in. My post addressed the way you presented things - first claiming the issue to be complex, then offering a simplistic take.