Thais and English: Stop the rote learning, be brave to speak, get better jobs and be happy!

[overherebc]

35 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

I remember but only 85% pure, it was not an isolated element.  I would rather find out what they called it back then but there probably was no CAPITALISED ABC organization for the approval. So it must have been named by that current emperor.  We will never know it's true name.

 

Since the Chinese came first, I WILL finish it - aluminko so we can all agree on something for a change.  I'm open for suggestions but I really did not like aluminese or alumchinium.

Think it came from using Alum that they used as a fire retardant on wooden forts, or something like that. How that ended up being used for casting/molding metallic objects I have not a clue.. ?

[DrTuner]

Be brave to speak .. and have a multi page bickering contest as the result. Now who wouldn't just love to do that?

[bkk6060]

If you are young and want a sucessful future, learn Chinese as they will rule the world in 15 years.

[Dumbastheycome]

8 hours ago, jayboy said:

You forget that in the early days of colonial and independent America (say 1650 - 1800) immigrants were motivated as much by the wish for religious freedom as anything else and were not escaping from extreme poverty.That came later in the late nineteenth and twentieth centuries.It's misleading to stress the "semi educated" aspect of the earlier settlers.If you study the social history of America at this time it's very clear this was a well educated and intellectually vibrant society.The founding fathers of the Revolution were astonishing accomplished men with Thomas Jefferson for example - but not uniquely - a near genius.What is sometimes characterized as debased American English is in many cases the vocabulary and  accent of their English ancestors.Language moved on in England as it does everywhere but with the interesting consequence that in many cases current American colloquial English is in fact close to the language of their seventeenth century English ancestors.

Be  it so as  you  wish it  be then. Unto  myself  it be of little  consequence  other  than such jugglery does  give    cause for  slight contemplation of reason. 

Whereas  I  suggest  sound cause in  the formation  of a colloquial English as a  derivation  that is no less legitimate than any other  colonial derivative.

[Dumbastheycome]

9 hours ago, newatthis said:

 This is the way to go {many thanks to David Brown}:

 

The European Commission

 

The European Commission has announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the EU, rather than German, which was the other contender. Her Majesty's Government conceded that English spelling had room for improvement and has therefore accepted a five-year phasing in of "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make sivil servants jump for joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of the "k", Which should klear up some konfusion and allow one key less on keyboards.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f", making words like "fotograf" 20% shorter.

In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible. Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling. Also, al wil agre that the horible mes of the silent "e" is disgrasful.

By the fourth yer, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and similar changes vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yer, ve vil hav a reli sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and everivun vil find it ezi to understand ech ozer. ZE DREM VIL FINALI COM TRU!

Herr Schmidt

Hmmm.  Nothing  new  in that.  Bahasa  Indonesia has  adopted  some  of the more  decipherable  aspects. Although   "c"  sounding  as  "ch" does   take some   getting  used  to.

On a  postive it  would  become  much easier  to understand EU  speakers  of  English.  lol

[jimster]

On 6/15/2018 at 11:08 AM, Orton Rd said:

They need to forget the boring and unnecessary grammar lessons, even I don't know what half of it means.

True. Even after all these grammar lessons, very few Thais can form a grammatically correct sentence. The vast majority, even those who speak reasonable English still have trouble with tenses (for example, 2 car instead of 2 carS) and they say things like "I ever been to Phuket" a statement which doesn't make any sense in English.

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, jimster said:

True. Even after all these grammar lessons, very few Thais can form a grammatically correct sentence. The vast majority, even those who speak reasonable English still have trouble with tenses (for example, 2 car instead of 2 carS) and they say things like "I ever been to Phuket" a statement which doesn't make any sense in English.

I have often wondered where that came from, I ever been to xxxxxxx. Are they missing the N or what? 

After many years here I still don't understand exactly what they are trying to convey.

[Catoni]

23 hours ago, Dumbastheycome said:

For  sure  rote  learning  the  Times  Table  and  the letters of the  alphabet are instances where it  has  some  advantage.

Maybe in individual instance also.

However I  can  not understand  how mimic  or parroting a  language provides  any real comprehension.

To learn to  sing a song  or say a poem in an unknown  language simply  by  memorising  it  does  not  require  any  understanding  of the words.

I can happily  sing along  to a kareoke song in Thai  but  little  comprehension  of  what I am singing. lol

   How about a child learning to read with just Phonics.    Instead of the Whole Language/Look Say method ? ? 

  

    I had one teacher tell me that children learning with Phonics are just "word calling" and don't know what the word means...

    But I replied.... "If the word is in the child's speaking vocabulary... of course they know what it means."  

 

            I bring this up because our local schools in Canada taught with Whole Language which has also been the teaching reading fad in the U.S.  (Canadian and U.S. teachers have some cross border get-togethers. Fads spread.)

 

      I bought a $32.00 book called Alpha-Phonics... kept my kids out of Kindergarten and taught them how to read myself.  All three of my kids were quite fluent readers by the time I let them attend public school..... the best readers in their class. No other kid in their age range in the neighborhood could read as well as my children..  (Except for one little girl, Ellie,  down the street whose grandmother also taught her with phonics. She came in one day while I was teaching my son David... and she read words from my white board.  I asked her how she learned to read... .and she said "My grandma taught me the sounds of the letters."    She did not say that she learned to read at school.)   You simply start with the sounds of the vowels... both long and short..  add the shwa sound and consonants and consonant blends....  teach the quiet letters... (Like in knife... phone....the few exceptions to the general rules (such as "i" before "e" except after "c"      Good rule.... with only a few exceptions... not hard at all.

     By the time you get through the book... you have created a fluent reader of the English language who will be able to pronounce every new word they see. And if the word is already in their speaking vocabulary.. of course they know what it means.

 And if they come upon a word they don't know the definition of, they look it up in the dictionary or ask.  It's so very simple...  

(Whole Language kids often can't even pronounce a new unfamiliar word.) 

    All three of my childen are book addicts to this day and have their own small libraries of book shelves at home... 

  So happy I taught my kids how to read.... even though I received much criticism from others for doing so..  ("Your not a teacher".  'It's not your job".   " You think you know better than the schools? "     It's what we hire teachers for." etc... )

  As a child... after learning basic reading..one of the first books I learned to use was the Dictionary.  So that as I continued reading books, if I came upon a word I did not know the definition of... I could look up the meaning...  I was.. in effect... teaching myself. 

   Most people who are learning a song in a foreign language.. if they have any curiosity or desire to learn, will find out what the word mean.  It's not that difficult.. 

Edited June 19, 2018 by Catoni
addition

[Dumbastheycome]

13 hours ago, Catoni said:

   How about a child learning to read with just Phonics.    Instead of the Whole Language/Look Say method ? ? 

  

    I had one teacher tell me that children learning with Phonics are just "word calling" and don't know what the word means...

    But I replied.... "If the word is in the child's speaking vocabulary... of course they know what it means."  

 

            I bring this up because our local schools in Canada taught with Whole Language which has also been the teaching reading fad in the U.S.  (Canadian and U.S. teachers have some cross border get-togethers. Fads spread.)

 

      I bought a $32.00 book called Alpha-Phonics... kept my kids out of Kindergarten and taught them how to read myself.  All three of my kids were quite fluent readers by the time I let them attend public school..... the best readers in their class. No other kid in their age range in the neighborhood could read as well as my children..  (Except for one little girl, Ellie,  down the street whose grandmother also taught her with phonics. She came in one day while I was teaching my son David... and she read words from my white board.  I asked her how she learned to read... .and she said "My grandma taught me the sounds of the letters."    She did not say that she learned to read at school.)   You simply start with the sounds of the vowels... both long and short..  add the shwa sound and consonants and consonant blends....  teach the quiet letters... (Like in knife... phone....the few exceptions to the general rules (such as "i" before "e" except after "c"      Good rule.... with only a few exceptions... not hard at all.

     By the time you get through the book... you have created a fluent reader of the English language who will be able to pronounce every new word they see. And if the word is already in their speaking vocabulary.. of course they know what it means.

 And if they come upon a word they don't know the definition of, they look it up in the dictionary or ask.  It's so very simple...  

(Whole Language kids often can't even pronounce a new unfamiliar word.) 

    All three of my childen are book addicts to this day and have their own small libraries of book shelves at home... 

  So happy I taught my kids how to read.... even though I received much criticism from others for doing so..  ("Your not a teacher".  'It's not your job".   " You think you know better than the schools? "     It's what we hire teachers for." etc... )

  As a child... after learning basic reading..one of the first books I learned to use was the Dictionary.  So that as I continued reading books, if I came upon a word I did not know the definition of... I could look up the meaning...  I was.. in effect... teaching myself. 

   Most people who are learning a song in a foreign language.. if they have any curiosity or desire to learn, will find out what the word mean.  It's not that difficult.. 

I  can  find  no  cause   to disagree  with  you in the   contextual situation  you  describe. That  being non Thai.

The  majority  of the  Thai  population  struggle  to comprehensively  cope with  the complexity  of the written Thai language as  it  is currently  instilled. And  too often  by "teachers"  who are the product  of  the same  process.

The  pronunciation, enunciation, inflection, intonation in  spoken  Thai is  an imperative for adequate  comprehension let  alone written  Thai given  formal  and  non  formal form.

Languages  based  on  the  Latin  alphabet  are  much  more basically  acquired by  those  who  are born  into them. 

Accent variants are  generally less important in the basic conveyance  of  intent in  meaning. Direct  translation is  also  more  accurate or  at  least  decipherable.

The  Thai  "alphabet"  versus  the  "Latin"  lack  in comparatives. That gives  cause  for  so   much comment  about  transliterations and  translations. 

Thai  who are lacking  in  written Thai language  capacity struggle  to  and  are  often  derided in attempt despite their  ability  to  converse without issues.

Therefore even to attempt spoken  English is a  huge  test  of  fortitude.

Yet  as  you   have  said those  that  have  any...desire... to learn can and  will do  so. For  that  reason  Bar Girls are often as  proficient as offshore  trained professionals in at  least  spoken  English whilst  the  remaining rural and/or urban population finds no cause or reason  to . Or are  even encouraged  to. Almost  without  exception  Movies  on  FTA   Television  channels  are dubbed to Thai  language and  often  even if a  Thai production have Thai  language  sub titles  whilst  the commercial interruptions   contain an average of  40 %  or  more English language advermation.

Education policy , in compliance with  International edict, which claims some meritorious intent is  so  often  a  facade to  enhance  the  position  of  "Educators" with  evidence of  the  policy  extended only  to the favoured wealthy in some  form  of  subsidy or   compensation.

In all  honesty I think  Thai need  to  be  taught  the   reason, the desire,  to learn  the  reason  for learning  before  anything  else.

The  current  and  historical  rote  learning  of  compliance  to  ignorance and cultural submission  to  that  effect has  had  it's   day !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[payanak]

On 6/16/2018 at 7:38 PM, Jonah Tenner said:

‘Learnt’ or ‘learned’?

These are alternative forms of the past tense and past participle of the verb learn. Both are acceptable, but learned is often used in both British English and American English, while learnt is much more common in British English than in American English.

 

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/usage/learnt-vs-learned

 

 

Seems like I may have ruffled the feathers of a few of my Pommie friends.

 

Jonah, I've checked your link and it seems accurate.  I stand corrected.  Thank you.  However, I noticed that your reference is England based.  After checking two American references I find no such corroboration.  Just for fun I asked two friends here, both from London, about this.  Each had a pretty good chuckle about my question, amused that I was even aware of this.  Each gave me pretty much the same answer.  Although the conjugation is grammatically correct, such use of the past tense is limited to uneducated street vernacular.  

 

So, technically you are correct.  But I will continue to maintain, however,  that at least from my perspective, "learnt" is not a word.  I find no validation of its use in my "own language."  I guess I have just not been exposed to such solecisms, barberisms, and gaucheries.  Appreciate the excellent input.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jonah Tenner]

13 hours ago, payanak said:

 

Seems like I may have ruffled the feathers of a few of my Pommie friends.

 

Jonah, I've checked your link and it seems accurate.  I stand corrected.  Thank you.  However, I noticed that your reference is England based.  After checking two American references I find no such corroboration.  Just for fun I asked two friends here, both from London, about this.  Each had a pretty good chuckle about my question, amused that I was even aware of this.  Each gave me pretty much the same answer.  Although the conjugation is grammatically correct, such use of the past tense is limited to uneducated street vernacular.  

 

So, technically you are correct.  But I will continue to maintain, however,  that at least from my perspective, "learnt" is not a word.  I find no validation of its use in my "own language."  I guess I have just not been exposed to such solecisms, barberisms, and gaucheries.  Appreciate the excellent input.

 

I too have observed that it has been going out of use, except in some street vernacular. However when I was learning English as my first foreign language about fifty seven years ago, it was the accepted past tense of learn in British English (at least for my teachers). American English was not something I had even heard about at that time.(I was eleven)

[BobbyL]

On 6/18/2018 at 6:42 PM, bkk6060 said:

If you are young and want a sucessful future, learn Chinese as they will rule the world in 15 years.

I will bet anyone that Chinese will not be the language of the world in 15 years, not even in 50 years.

 

[HAKAPALITA]

2 hours ago, BobbyL said:

I will bet anyone that Chinese will not be the language of the world in 15 years, not even in 50 years.

 

An astute observation, English is the status symbol for Chins today.My only dislike is that very few Native Brit teachers cant speak without some weird dialect as if its something to be proud  about....Im happy i learned from BBC in the late 50s  before it went Geordie Shore yob/chav style.!!. My spelllnz kin awfull, but its comunication that matters

[DrTuner]

4 hours ago, BobbyL said:

I will bet anyone that Chinese will not be the language of the world in 15 years, not even in 50 years.

Commies have a history of managing to implode by themselves, hoping that happens and they'll build another Great Wall, this time to keep them in.

[Poottrong]

11 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

An astute observation, English is the status symbol for Chins today.My only dislike is that very few Native Brit teachers cant speak without some weird dialect as if its something to be proud  about....Im happy i learned from BBC in the late 50s  before it went Geordie Shore yob/chav style.!!. My spelllnz kin awfull, but its comunication that matters

The younger generation in England like to imitate black West Indian mode of English innit? In the same way white kids (wiggers) in the US talk black - wassup dawg?

 

 

 

 

[payanak]

On 6/16/2018 at 6:36 PM, rkidlad said:

I'm just gonna post this comment again so other readers can enjoy your ignorance. Welcome to TV. 

Your field of reference is probably too narrow for you to ever understand how ignorant you are.  There is no American reference that confirms this to be a word.  About 330 million people would agree with me.  Come into the 21st century. 

 

Because I am such a nice guy I will repeat it for your enjoyment and that of your simian clan mates.  "Learnt" is not a word.  (Hey, even your TV spellchecker is telling me now this is not a word)

 

Wow, you're a Platinum member?  Over 4700 posts.  That's really somethin' now.  Your mother must be so proud.  Did you get a certificate for that?  Maybe a little card for your wallet?  You should think about getting a life.

 

No, really!  Get your hands out from under the blanket, turn off the computer, and get out into the world.  Maybe you can still learn something.

[rkidlad]

6 hours ago, payanak said:

Your field of reference is probably too narrow for you to ever understand how ignorant you are.  There is no American reference that confirms this to be a word.  About 330 million people would agree with me.  Come into the 21st century. 

 

Because I am such a nice guy I will repeat it for your enjoyment and that of your simian clan mates.  "Learnt" is not a word.  (Hey, even your TV spellchecker is telling me now this is not a word)

 

Wow, you're a Platinum member?  Over 4700 posts.  That's really somethin' now.  Your mother must be so proud.  Did you get a certificate for that?  Maybe a little card for your wallet?  You should think about getting a life.

 

No, really!  Get your hands out from under the blanket, turn off the computer, and get out into the world.  Maybe you can still learn something.

Again, I will post your comment to let everyone see not only your ignorance, but your desperate attempt in not wanting to appear so. 

[vogie]

On 6/16/2018 at 6:27 PM, payanak said:

 

Hopefully your wife has learned that "learnt" is not a word.

Hope this helps.

 

"These are alternative forms of the past tense and past participle of the verb learn. Both are acceptable, but learned is often used in both British English and American English, while learnt is much more common in British English than in American English."

[brewsterbudgen]

Hope this helps.
 
"These are alternative forms of the past tense and past participle of the verb learn. Both are acceptable, but learned is often used in both British English and American English, while learnt is much more common in British English than in American English."

Exactly. Last night I dreamt that this silly discussion would end.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[newatthis]

1 hour ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Exactly. Last night I dreamt that this silly discussion would end.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Let's hope that nothing kills the dream you dreamed.

[Kieran00001]

On 6/27/2018 at 6:43 PM, Poottrong said:

The younger generation in England like to imitate black West Indian mode of English innit? In the same way white kids (wiggers) in the US talk black - wassup dawg?

 

 

 

 

 

Nice try with the racist generalizations, shame you don't know what you are talking about.

 

'Init' comes from Punjabi communities in the UK, nothing to do with the West Indies, it is a direct translation of 'Haina" a Punjabi tag on negative question word and gained hold in the UK in the West Midlands where lots of Punjabi words have made it into the British vocabulary.

 

'What's up, dawg', comes from combining Bugs Bunny's, 'What's up, doc?', with the pronunciation of dog seen in the cartoon Deputy Dawg, people started saying, 'What's up, dawg', in the 70's when Deputy Dawg was on TV, nothing to do with "talk black", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

[Poottrong]

2 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Nice try with the racist generalizations, shame you don't know what you are talking about.

 

'Init' comes from Punjabi communities in the UK, nothing to do with the West Indies, it is a direct translation of 'Haina" a Punjabi tag on negative question word and gained hold in the UK in the West Midlands where lots of Punjabi words have made it into the British vocabulary.

 

'What's up, dawg', comes from combining Bugs Bunny's, 'What's up, doc?', with the pronunciation of dog seen in the cartoon Deputy Dawg, people started saying, 'What's up, dawg', in the 70's when Deputy Dawg was on TV, nothing to do with "talk black", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean.

"Nice try with the racist generalizations, shame you don't know what you are talking about."

 

Never watched Ali G then?

 

“The term MLE describes a ‘social dialect’ (sociolect), an informal spoken style of UK English used initially by ‘younger’ speakers and first identified and associated with London,” Antony Thorne, a linguistics researcher at King’s College London, wrote to me. “This way of speaking is characterised by a vocabulary reflecting a high degree of ‘black’ (terms possibly coined by African-Caribbean speakers in the UK, and US black ‘street’ language and hip hop terminology) influences, with some noticeable ‘cockney’ elements too. "

 

"'Init' comes from Punjabi communities in the UK, nothing to do with the West Indies, it is a direct translation of 'Haina""

 

I stand corrected. 

 

"people started saying, 'What's up, dawg', in the 70's when Deputy Dawg was on TV, nothing to do with "talk black""

 

"The word "dawg" is often used when referring to or gretting friends -- mainly used by the Black American community. Alternative words used instead of "dawg" are: homie, gangster, G, n*gger, bro, brava, etc."

 

"nothing to do with "talk black", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean."

 

Look it up then. Also known as African American Vernacular English or Ebonics. 

 

So, as I said in my original comment, white youth culture in both the US and UK is highly imitative of black culture. 

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Poottrong

[Kieran00001]

2 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

"Nice try with the racist generalizations, shame you don't know what you are talking about."

 

“The term MLE describes a ‘social dialect’ (sociolect), an informal spoken style of UK English used initially by ‘younger’ speakers and first identified and associated with London,” Antony Thorne, a linguistics researcher at King’s College London, wrote to me. “This way of speaking is characterised by a vocabulary reflecting a high degree of ‘black’ (terms possibly coined by African-Caribbean speakers in the UK, and US black ‘street’ language and hip hop terminology) influences, with some noticeable ‘cockney’ elements too. "

 

 

"'Init' comes from Punjabi communities in the UK, nothing to do with the West Indies, it is a direct translation of 'Haina""

 

I stand corrected. 

 

"people started saying, 'What's up, dawg', in the 70's when Deputy Dawg was on TV, nothing to do with "talk black""

 

"The word "dawg" is often used when referring to or gretting friends -- mainly used by the Black American community. Alternative words used instead of "dawg" are: homie, gangster, G, n*gger, bro, brava, etc."

 

"nothing to do with "talk black", whatever the hell that is supposed to mean."

 

Look it up then. Also known as African American Vernacular English or Ebonics.

 

So, as I said in my original comment, white youth culture in both the US and UK is highly imitative of black culture. 

 

 

Oh, so British Punjabi culture is being imitated by British youths, really, and there was me thinking they are British youths, you learn something everyday, I guess you meant that British youths pick up vernaculars from their peers. 

 

But what are you on about when you say, 'black culture'?  Punjabi is a language, the speakers of it tend not to be black people.

 

Dawg really did become popular from the Deputy Dawg cartoon and if you didn't realize he was a white dog who happened to come from the Southern states where people pronounce dog like dawg, that has nothing to do with black people, it is just a regional accent.

 

So, as you said, or at least implied, you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

 

 

[DILLIGAD]

I thought it was ‘what’s up Doc’ from Bugs Bunny??? Never heard of ‘what’s up Dawg’ from Londoners or Deputy Dawg.

Maybe I lived 1/2 a century in a different part of London?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[trainman34014]

On 6/15/2018 at 11:08 AM, Orton Rd said:

They need to forget the boring and unnecessary grammar lessons, even I don't know what half of it means.

That's their way of bogging them down so that most give up.   They don't want too many smart, critical thinking people here who start to threaten the powers of The Elite !

[Poottrong]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Oh, so British Punjabi culture is being imitated by British youths, really, and there was me thinking they are British youths, you learn something everyday, I guess you meant that British youths pick up vernaculars from their peers. 

 

But what are you on about when you say, 'black culture'?  Punjabi is a language, the speakers of it tend not to be black people.

 

Dawg really did become popular from the Deputy Dawg cartoon and if you didn't realize he was a white dog who happened to come from the Southern states where people pronounce dog like dawg, that has nothing to do with black people, it is just a regional accent.

 

So, as you said, or at least implied, you haven't the faintest idea what you are talking about.

 

 

 

You're making my point for me. White British youths are imitating the vernacular of immigrants, particularly Jamaican patois. Or to put it another triggering way for you, "talking black". Ali G typified this whole phenomenon to a tee.

 

As for "wassup dawg", yes white kids say that because of the original old cartoon and has nothing at all to do with hearing cool black dudes say it to each other and trying to imitate them. Riiiiiiight.

 

[Kieran00001]

6 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

 

You're making my point for me. White British youths are imitating the vernacular of immigrants, particularly Jamaican patois. Or to put it another triggering way for you, "talking black". Ali G typified this whole phenomenon to a tee.

 

As for "wassup dawg", yes white kids say that because of the original old cartoon and has nothing at all to do with hearing cool black dudes say it to each other and trying to imitate them. Riiiiiiight.

 

 

I can assure you that me talking about the Punjabi influence on the English language has done nothing to make your point, in fact it has rubbished it.

 

Jamaican patois does not contain the vernacular 'init', however British Jamaican youths use the term, having picked it up in the UK, where it developed originally from British Punjabi youths.  You should, unless you are a completely hopeless racist, be able to see that 'init' is no more a black thing than it is a white thing.

 

Do you think that white kids in Georgia say dawg to try to sound like black people?  How would that work considering they all say dawg, blacks and whites the same.  The pronunciation is an imitation of a southern states accent, nothing to do with black people, get over it, you were wrong about both examples you gave.

[Kieran00001]

 

25 minutes ago, Poottrong said:

 

You're making my point for me. White British youths are imitating the vernacular of immigrants, particularly Jamaican patois. Or to put it another triggering way for you, "talking black". Ali G typified this whole phenomenon to a tee.

 

As for "wassup dawg", yes white kids say that because of the original old cartoon and has nothing at all to do with hearing cool black dudes say it to each other and trying to imitate them. Riiiiiiight.

 

 

Dawg origin

This was the 1970s, before Ted Turner was famous outside of Georgia. But the program was called "Deputy Dawg," and it was spelled this way. And this is a "suth'nism," if you catch my drift: an eye dialect on how Southerners actually pronounce words as opposed to the American English standard.

[Poottrong]

6 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

I can assure you that me talking about the Punjabi influence on the English language has done nothing to make your point, in fact it has rubbished it.

 

Jamaican patois does not contain the vernacular 'init', however British Jamaican youths use the term, having picked it up in the UK, where it developed originally from British Punjabi youths.  You should, unless you are a completely hopeless racist, be able to see that 'init' is no more a black thing than it is a white thing.

 

Do you think that white kids in Georgia say dawg to try to sound like black people?  How would that work considering they all say dawg, blacks and whites the same.  The pronunciation is an imitation of a southern states accent, nothing to do with black people, get over it, you were wrong about both examples you gave.

Two things:

 

1. I made it clear in my first reply that you were correct about "innit" being of Punjabi origin. Although there are Punjabi elements in youth slang the bulk of it comes from the black immigrant culture. So you can move on from the Punjabi thing now as you seem to be stuck there and ignoring the relevant point. Why it seems to be difficult for you to admit that white British kids like to talk like black kids (a fact supported by linguists) seems to be a denial of the obvious.

 

2. If you do a quick google search you will see that "dawg" in the urban dictionary  means "Slang for "my close acquaintance of an African-American ethnic background" . So yes white kids are trying to sound like black guys when they say it and not like their white grandfathers. Again, quite obvious you'd think.

 

 

[Poottrong]

10 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

Dawg origin

This was the 1970s, before Ted Turner was famous outside of Georgia. But the program was called "Deputy Dawg," and it was spelled this way. And this is a "suth'nism," if you catch my drift: an eye dialect on how Southerners actually pronounce words as opposed to the American English standard.

Exhibit A Dawg: