1 hour ago, pegman said:

Labour didn't start this road to ruin. It is Cameron's debacle.

 

No he did not!  He merely gave the people the choice of "in or out"   And, guess what?

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Now, that is past almost 70 years. You paid the fee for being a free country or do you think you would be better off with a German Chancellor ruling Britain? (though you got a lot of German Royals on the throne already!) It's a shame that UK is the only country showing all these bullshit war movies, day by day. You can't accept that you lost all your colonies and almost the war? You can't accept that the time you might have been number one in Europe (in your eyes) is gone for ever?

 

Your knowledge of history is lacking. British royals have a mixed lineage not German alone. 

 

Britain fought 2 World Wars for the freedom of Europe, along with allies. Both were against a side that desired to impose it's dictatorial views on the rest and led both times by Germany.

 

One of the issues, and quite a big one, in the EU is the German desire to dominate and dictate to others. Now they've been militarily neutered they use economic power. Ironic that, under US insistence, the allies rebuilt Germany after WW11 and created their economic power for them. Whereas allies of the US had to pay debts to America, pay for their own rehabilitation or were given away to the evil communist dictator Stalin.

 

The US had it's firm foreign policies, which it implemented after WW11. Dismantle the old imperial powers, Britain, France etc, even though they were allies, and change the world order, which increased it's own prominence. The US doesn't want a EU superstate despite Obama trying hard to interfere in the Brexit vote.

 

 

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Now, that is past almost 70 years. You paid the fee for being a free country or do you think you would be better off with a German Chancellor ruling Britain? (though you got a lot of German Royals on the throne already!) It's a shame that UK is the only country showing all these bullshit war movies, day by day. You can't accept that you lost all your colonies and almost the war? You can't accept that the time you might have been number one in Europe (in your eyes) is gone for ever?

Had we decided to stay in the EU, we probably would have eventually ended up with a German Chancellor ruling Britain under a "United States of Europe" banner.  We understood that the last World War was precisely to avoid that!

No he did not!  He merely gave the people the choice of "in or out"   And, guess what?

Exactly, something Labour (under Blair) also intended however yet another coward renegades on this choice for the 'electorate'.


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32 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

But the "advisory" referendum which the cowardly Cameron ineptly tried to use for his own ends, was in fact a U-Turn on the previous referendum held prior to joining what was then the Common Market.

 

If you think there are no U-Turns in politics you must be some kind of hermit.

...but with a 40+ year cooling off period during which time 80% of the electorate had either died at one end or achieved adulthood at the other!

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by evadgib

17 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Had we decided to stay in the EU, we probably would have eventually ended up with a German Chancellor ruling Britain under a "United States of Europe" banner.  We understood that the last World War was precisely to avoid that!

Under a German Chancellor your GREAT Britain would have developed much better. You comment reminds me of a comedy series called "Little Britain"

8 hours ago, pegman said:

U.K. will be a basket case in 5 years. 

A bit like Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain - stalwarts of the drive for European Unity - as long as someone else pays?

 

The EU will be a basket case in 5 years - it's only a question of when the first of this four goes bust - then domino time...

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The UK fought WW2 for reasons of self preservation.

 

The US insisted on the UK paying its war debt with the specific intent of forcing the collapse of the British Empire.

 

 

So you don't pay back money you borrow...?

9 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Under a German Chancellor your GREAT Britain would have developed much better. You comment reminds me of a comedy series called "Little Britain"

But Brits do not exterminate folk...

30 minutes ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

Had we decided to stay in the EU, we probably would have eventually ended up with a German Chancellor ruling Britain under a "United States of Europe" banner.  We understood that the last World War was precisely to avoid that!

To be fair there is much about modern Germany that i like but i take your point.

2 minutes ago, transam said:

But Brits do not exterminate folk...

....any more ?

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Now, that is past almost 70 years. You paid the fee for being a free country or do you think you would be better off with a German Chancellor ruling Britain? (though you got a lot of German Royals on the throne already!) It's a shame that UK is the only country showing all these bullshit war movies, day by day. You can't accept that you lost all your colonies and almost the war? You can't accept that the time you might have been number one in Europe (in your eyes) is gone for ever?

If I do hope that you are not suggesting that the UK, and for that matter the rest of Europe, would have been better off if the ghastly regime which subjegated Europe, gave us the horrors of the Holocaust and launched a war of annihilation against the Soviet Union, had prevailed?

If so then you should be howled down at every opportunity. Yes it is seventy years ago. That is well within living memory.

59 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Now I know you better. So I meant YOU

You're talking like a republican now.

31 minutes ago, transam said:

So you don't pay back money you borrow...?

I suggested no such thing.

 

The historical context is the UK was economically ruined at the end of WW2, the US enforced the UK debt while massively supporting the rebuilding of Germany under the Marshall Plan.

 

These two policies had stated political and strategic aims.

 

Don’t confuse simple debt/repayment with US policy towards the UK at the end of WW2

58 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

One of the issues, and quite a big one, in the EU is the German desire to dominate and dictate to others. Now they've been militarily neutered they use economic power. Ironic that, under US insistence, the allies rebuilt Germany after WW11 and created their economic power for them. Whereas allies of the US had to pay debts to America, pay for their own rehabilitation or were given away to the evil communist dictator Stalin.

That is not quite right:

in the EU is the German desire to dominate and dictate to others. They can't. Every decision in EU has to be made by all members, not only one. Do you have examples for your statement or is it a fake statement?

they use economic power. Obviously they have more to offer than other countries

the allies rebuilt Germany after WW11 and created their economic power for them. There was a plan to destroy Germany and make it an agricultural state, planned bey Morgenthau. However this was to costly, means to support at least 90 Mill. people. US was not able to finance this support. Therefore is was cheaper to let Germany delelop themselves, planned by Marshal. Obviously German Engineering is more effectful than others.

 

 

31 minutes ago, JAG said:

If I do hope that you are not suggesting that the UK, and for that matter the rest of Europe, would have been better off if the ghastly regime which subjegated Europe, gave us the horrors of the Holocaust and launched a war of annihilation against the Soviet Union, had prevailed?

If so then you should be howled down at every opportunity. Yes it is seventy years ago. That is well within living memory.

The good thing is that this generation which was involved in that stupid war will diminished and vanished by nature. And also the Brexit is not forever. There are always incompetent politicians as Trump or May e.g. The next generation will get the chance to join the EU again because they know after years of poverty what it means to be a member of a strong community! Better together than alone.

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Under a German Chancellor your GREAT Britain would have developed much better. You comment reminds me of a comedy series called "Little Britain"

....whereas your reminds us of..

23 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

The good thing is that this generation which was involved in that stupid war will diminished and vanished by nature. And also the Brexit is not forever. There are always incompetent politicians as Trump or May e.g. The next generation will get the chance to join the EU again because they know after years of poverty what it means to be a member of a strong community! Better together than alone.

If the EU still exists in a generations time...

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

...or any of these ?

How many of 'those' do you know?

 

Or are you commandeering the sacrifice of the millions of people who died fighting for all our freedom?!

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How many of 'those' do you know?

 

Or are you commandeering the sacrifice of the millions of people who died fighting for all our freedom?!

 

 

Millions didn't die fighting...Millions were executed after humiliation......I wonder who did that.....

3 minutes ago, transam said:

Millions didn't die fighting...Millions were executed after humiliation......I wonder who did that.....

Tens of millions died fighting.

 

And yes millions of others where executed after being humiliated. 

 

The people who did that were nationalists. 

 

Do you wish to continue with that?

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by Chomper Higgot

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Tens of millions died fighting.

 

And yes millions of others where executed after being humiliated. 

 

The people who did that were nationalists. 

 

Do you wish to continue with that?

A nationalist party Government voted in by the populous....What country was it...?

1 minute ago, transam said:

A nationalist party Government voted in by the populous....What country was it...?

It was Germany transam. 

 

The German people voted in a nationalist government, that then proceeded to scape goat an ethnic minority, attack and subjugate the media, attack and subjugate the judiciary, employ the propaganda of the big lie, demonise the already scape goated ethnic minority, blame them for crimes, talk of them as animals, as an infestation, intern them and then murder them. 

 

They did so with the help of nationalist sympathisers in every country they invaded. 

 

It wasn't Germans rounding up Jews in France, Italy, Hungary, Poland and across occupied Europe, it was the local rightwing sympathisers. 

 

It sounds awfully familiar, don't you think. 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was Germany transam. 

 

The German people voted in a nationalist government, that then proceeded to scape goat an ethnic minority, attack and subjugate the media, attack and subjugate the judiciary, employ the propaganda of the big lie, demonise the already scape goated ethnic minority, blame them for crimes, talk of them as animals, as an infestation, intern them and then murder them. 

 

They did so with the help of nationalist sympathisers in every country they invaded. 

 

It wasn't Germans rounding up Jews in France, Italy, Hungary, Poland and across occupied Europe, it was the local rightwing sympathisers. 

 

It sounds awfully familiar, don't you think. 

I don't think even Jeremy Corbyns anti semetic Labour Party would go to such lengths...........or would they???

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It was Germany transam. 

 

The German people voted in a nationalist government, that then proceeded to scape goat an ethnic minority, attack and subjugate the media, attack and subjugate the judiciary, employ the propaganda of the big lie, demonise the already scape goated ethnic minority, blame them for crimes, talk of them as animals, as an infestation, intern them and then murder them. 

 

They did so with the help of nationalist sympathisers in every country they invaded. 

 

It wasn't Germans rounding up Jews in France, Italy, Hungary, Poland and across occupied Europe, it was the local rightwing sympathisers. 

 

It sounds awfully familiar, don't you think. 

Yes even the UK had traitors, looking for stardom when the Germans arrived...

 

Bit like remoaners who can't accept what the UK populous voted for..

35 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

How many of 'those' do you know?

Or are you commandeering the sacrifice of the millions of people who died fighting for all our freedom?!

I wouldn't want to stray too far off topic but you could perhaps spare a thought for the generation(s) who gave you the right to troll.

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by evadgib

57 minutes ago, JAG said:

If the EU still exists in a generations time...

no, you are right, but the United States of Europe?

Yes the march got lots of coverage in the press and on TV.  100,000 people hit the streets for the anti Brexit rally!  Of course we mustn't forget that the pro Brexit supporters fielded their own march in retaliation.... No really they did... Apparently.....   Unfortunately there weren't enough of them who turned up for comment.    

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

....whereas your reminds us of..

Now I know where Trump copied his behaviour from! I remember his roots are in Germany. Heil Trump! Jawohl!

12 minutes ago, evadgib said:

I wouldn't want to stray too far off topic but you could perhaps spare a thought for the generation(s) who gave you the right to troll.

Utterly digraceful.

 

 

Edited June 24, 20188 yr by Chomper Higgot