Former Thai PM Thaksin: "I'm Calling It Quits"

[Journalist]

^Here's about 100....

Hitler

Nelson Mandela

Robert Mugabe

Numerous Israelis and Middle easterners after WW2

Lenin and various iron curtain revolutionary leaders in 20th C

Tons of Irishmen

Need spoon feeding on history any more? Can Thaivisa people do their own research instead of just ranting in a silence where nobody is listening? No? Well google 'British Empire' and you'll see the Brits handed power to many criminals who spent time in British jails at some point.

None were on tax evasion. Treason and insurrection often!

So all this high-moralising about tax evasion is a load of piffle......

"OH-HO he's a convicted fugitive on the lam. He is shamed for life due to his tax indiscretions and having fallen out of love with his Missus. Tee hee. He won't dare show his mug again." (repeat 10,000 times before meals in order to persuade yourselves this is the only extant view)

Reality outside of a safe warm forum is very different.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Journalist

[Plus]

The reality is that he has six outstanding warrants and eight cases in the pipeline. One of them is proceeding in absentia, the rest will restart as soon as he is presented to the court.

He is FINISHED.

The only way back for him is a revolution, and he threatens exactly that.

So, despite all the progress achieved due to massive popular campaign against him that was spearheaded by PAD, the war is not over yet.

If his revolution doesn't come about soon, he might lose all the money, too. If PPP can't win the next elections, which is not unlikely given their performance, he will be lucky if he escapes jail at all.

>>>>

If you look at the big picture - having all those puppets in the government and the parliament hasn't done him ANY good. It has inflicted a lot of damage on the country, but they coulnd't save him, and in less than a month they will probably be dissolved themselves.

[sriracha john]

^Regardless of the stains on him, the material changes in Thailand have been no more than cosmetic. Samak gives way to some other puppet.

Still, if you're satisfied with the divorce and the tax indictment, then fine. I thought you wanted a more decisive outcome.

I can give you a list of fifty individuals with far far worse criminal records and jail time who became leaders of their country.

Years of time in office with the country as his fiefdom (extrajudicial murders galore).......Nearly as many years police investigation after his exit.......the result .............."Guilty of tax evasion"

Pathetic.

You think those charges are a serious obstacle to his return to power? They're a fart in a typhoon.

I'd say its even money he will be Prime Minister again within 10 years. Any takers?

Are you even aware of all the other cases against Thaksin? Because it sure sounds like you don't....

[Journalist]

^How long do we have to wait for the other cases to come to trial. Five more years?

If the evidence is there. Try him. Lets hear the case pronto.

('As soon as he's presented to the court' ? Come on, please. Lets deal in realities here. He isn't going to be there because he's scarpered. Does that mean no trial? )

You all talk as if this all has to be resolved before Michelmas! That a multi-year process is going to split the nation. Of course its going to be years.

[JacknDanny]

^Regardless of the stains on him, the material changes in Thailand have been no more than cosmetic. Samak gives way to some other puppet.

Still, if you're satisfied with the divorce and the tax indictment, then fine. I thought you wanted a more decisive outcome.

I can give you a list of fifty individuals with far far worse criminal records and jail time who became leaders of their country.

Years of time in office with the country as his fiefdom (extrajudicial murders galore).......Nearly as many years police investigation after his exit.......the result .............."Guilty of tax evasion"

Pathetic.

You think those charges are a serious obstacle to his return to power? They're a fart in a typhoon.

I'd say its even money he will be Prime Minister again within 10 years. Any takers?

Are you even aware of all the other cases against Thaksin? Because it sure sounds like you don't....

As far as I am concerned, any credibility that Journalist may have had, disintegrated when he compared the likes of Hitler and Robert Mugabe with Nelson Mandele..

[sriracha john]

^How long do we have to wait for the other cases to come to trial. Five more years?

If the evidence is there. Try him. Lets hear the case pronto.

('As soon as he's presented to the court' ? Come on, please. Lets deal in realities here. He isn't going to be there because he's scarpered. Does that mean no trial? )

You all talk as if this all has to be resolved before Michelmas! That a multi-year process is going to split the nation. Of course its going to be years.

Apparently you are unaware of how in Thailand, ALL legal cases require the presence of the defendant in court to hear the initial charges.

That's just the way things are here within their legal system.

They are on hold until he returns.... which may be Christmas according to PPP proxies... which is also exactly when his Pastrygate lawyers are due for release from prison. Maybe he's been waiting for their release as they are such crackerjack legal wizards, he's wants them available for his defense team.

[Journalist]

^^All future leaders that were vilified and condemned at one point by the Courts. Some became heroes of history, some villains.

Terrorists or freedom fighters? Monsters or saviours? The courts judged them fairly or not on the evidence presented.

I think we can safely say Mandela is a different kettle of fish from Mugabe.

^

SrJ : thanks for the clarification on his return and lets hope its all over by Xmas !!

Edited November 21, 2008 by Journalist

[Ricardo]

This all the system that has aircraft carriers sitting in port rusting to death.

I believe that it is just the one elderly ex-Spanish aircraft-carrier, now rusting in port, not plural.

If some group is making ANY EFFORT to change the system to less corrupt,

we should applaud their efforts.

If any group is making an extended effort to return the system to a more corrupt way,

we should hold them in contempt.

I am SURE someone will come and twist this comment to the inverse of it's intent,

but you can then judge THEIR motives for your self.

My highlight.

Agreed. One of the things that initially made Thaksin look attractive, was that he claimed to want to reduce corruption, sadly it turned out that he really wished to control & expand it instead. What a wasted opportunity !

And as a further example of his integrity & probity, one need only look at his current threats to plunge the country into chaos, to further his own (not the peoples') political or financial ends, after having promised that he had quit Thai politics for good.

It says a lot for Thailand, that the problem wasn't solved with an assassin's bullet, as in many other emerging-democracies.

That this level of integrity & probity is shared by his brother-in-law, the current PM, is evidenced by his refusal to remove Thaksin's diplomatic passport, despite his being a convicted criminal on-the-run from justice. That Thailand lets someone like that retain a diplomatic passport, with the endorsement which that implies, shames Thailand before the world IMHO.

[sriracha john]

^

SrJ : thanks for the clarification on his return and lets hope its all over by Xmas !!

not likely... PPP dissolution (plus coalition nub parties) and the removal of most Cabinet Ministers (including PM Somchai) from the NCCC case are all likely to occur in December. Either/both will be cause for new elections occurring 3 months after that... things are going to be bumpy in Thailand for the near foreseeable future... with Thaksin, no doubt, fully immersed in all of it.

[Samuian]

........edited..

It doesn't need Thaksin's influence/money for the Economist to point out the problems with what has, is and will go on in Thailand.

I didn't wanted to imply this... !

But it is a valued point in this mess, that he might be using any available channel to promote his and the PPP

's "democratic leadership".

I remember that takky had 2 journalists declared "persona non grata" whilst he was upset about an article in the FEER and the netlink blocked, I got the article concerned, via a 3rd party... well nothing really against his person, a review of his empire and the power involved being the PM...

Makes one wonder...

[JacknDanny]

^^All future leaders that were vilified and condemned at one point by the Courts. Some became heroes of history, some villains.

Terrorists or freedom fighters? Monsters or saviours? The courts judged them fairly or not on the evidence presented.

I think we can safely say Mandela is a different kettle of fish from Mugabe.

OK,

I apologise, I got the wrong end of the stick.

[animatic]

I think we can safely say Mandela is a different kettle of fish from Mugabe.

Such drole economy of irony!!

[Plus]

Not ALL cases require presence of the defendant, only criminal ones, I believe. Civil suit against Thaksin, the one that could hurt him the most - asset seizure - can and will proceede in his absense.

Once he comes back he will be tied up with courts forever, with zero chance qualifying for running in elections.

[baht&sold]

Just look at this clown:

Acting Executive Director Sam Moon.

His resume includes The Economist, Dow Jones (publisher of Wall Street Journal), and Business Week.

I agree this guy hasn't exactly got an intelligent looking face!

But just for the record I don't think he has had any editorial or journalistic background on the newspapers/journals named, just organising conferences.

he's hired Gordon Gekko...as, thus far, the solitary employee of the scam...

Note: Today, all references to Sam Moon below were posted on www.Economist.com but were removed by The Economist's moderator (the headlines below are paraphrased, the quotes are direct from news articles)

*Sam Moon hired as Thaksin's PR man

(The Nation Nov 18 2008)

-Finally, we now know who has been actively behind Thaksin Shinawatra's PR war from the outside. He is Sam Moon. Thaksin previously won the PR war from the outside, painting himself as a champion of democracy and a victim of a military coup. However, after the UK's denial of his visa, Thaksin's image has taken a beating. Inside Thailand, Thaksin has won the battle in the upcountry, where the political stake is the highest. The PR War from the outside and the reinforcement of the rural political base are what Thaksin is trying to strengthen to corner the Bangkok middle class and his political enemies.

-----------------------------------------------------------

*Sam Moon, The Economist ties

(The Nation Nov 19 2008)

-Sam Moon has lived in and worked across Asia for the past 23 years working for The Economist, Dow Jones and his own company in partnership with BusinessWeek. Based mainly in Hong Kong, Sam spearheaded the effort of two global media companies, namely The Economist Group and Dow Jones, in transforming their respective conference activities into an actual growth-oriented and profitable business units. While in The Economist Group, Sam was also made responsible for The Economist Group’s conference business for the United States and Latin America, with the aim of facilitating a similar business turnaround for The Economist brand. Mr. Moon first met Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra 16 years ago and has remained in contact with him over the years. Sam holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Tennessee, United States.

----------------------------------------------------------

*Sam Moon likens Thaksin to Clinton

(Bangkok Post Nov 23 2008)

-"Having seen Dr Thaksin work with media, handle challenges and 'work' a crowded room, Mr Moon feels Dr Thaksin is one of only a handful of a new generation of Asian leaders who could become a 'Clinton from Asia'. Dr Thaksin's leadership ability, vision, charm and media savvy put him in a league all his own."

----------------------------------------------------------

*Thaksin likens himself to Nelson Mandela, threatens to expose 'certain figure'

(Reuters interview Nov 11 2008)

-Thaksin likened his struggle to that of South African freedom fighter and statesman Nelson Mandela. Thaksin's threat to reveal names of people who had cornered him would stop at a certain figure he has previously characterised as "charismatic" and "extra-constitutional".

[sriracha john]

Just look at this clown:

Acting Executive Director Sam Moon.

His resume includes The Economist, Dow Jones (publisher of Wall Street Journal), and Business Week.

I agree this guy hasn't exactly got an intelligent looking face!

But just for the record I don't think he has had any editorial or journalistic background on the newspapers/journals named, just organising conferences.

he's hired Gordon Gekko...as, thus far, the solitary employee of the scam...

Note: Today, all references to Sam Moon below were posted on www.Economist.com but were removed by The Economist's moderator (the headlines below are paraphrased, the quotes are direct from news articles)

Thank you for your updated and timely post, baht&sold, and just to clarify my quote above in it, the "scam" refers to:

www.BuildingBetterFuture.org

The Building a Better Future Foundation, www.BuildingBetterFuture.org, has been hastily put together, with offices in Hong Kong and Dubai. Its objective is to address the financial, economic and social development in the developing nations, but it is seen as Thaksin's attempt to win back his international image tarnished by the UK government's denial of his visa.

[Jai Dee]

New HK home for Thaksin's kid

Ms Shinawatra signed an agreement to buy the three-story house at the King's Park Hill development for 45 million Hong Kong dollars (S$8.7 million).

HONG KONG - THE youngest daughter of Thailand's fugitive ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has bought a luxury home in Hong Kong, according to public records, in the latest sign the family is expanding its base in the city to monitor the Thai political situation.

Ms Paetongtarn Shinawatra, 22, signed an agreement last month to buy the three-story house at the King's Park Hill development for 45 million Hong Kong dollars (S$8.7 million), according to land registry records obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The daughter began negotiating the deal for the property on a wooded hill on the Kowloon peninsula in early November before her father and mother, Pojaman Shinawatra, divorced, said Mr Henry Ng, the real estate agent who handled the transaction.

Mr Ng said he never met the buyer, who signed the agreement Nov 24, and only dealt with her representatives. The entire transaction, which usually takes two to three months, has yet to be finalised but the house is considered bought, he said.

The agent said the 3,313 square foot (307 square metre) home was bought at a bargain price that was 20.8 per cent lower than the previous transaction in the estate. He said since the deal, the price has already risen by 11 per cent to about HK$50 million.

Since Thaksin was ousted from power in a 2006 military coup, he has been living in exile mostly in London, Hong Kong and Dubai.

He also made one five-month return to Thailand early this year. Hong Kong has been one of the former telecom tycoon's most popular perches for observing the political scene in Thailand, just a three-hour flight away.

Forbes Asia magazine put Thaksin's estimated net worth at US$400 million in July after Thai authorities froze more than US$2 billion of his family's assets pending the outcome of corruption cases against him.

He was sentenced in absentia by a Thai court in October to two years in prison for violating a conflict of interest law while he was prime minister. He had his British visa revoked last month while he was traveling.

Source: New Straits Times - 11 December 2008

[Sandstone Art]

New HK home for Thaksin's kid

Ms Shinawatra signed an agreement to buy the three-story house at the King's Park Hill development for 45 million Hong Kong dollars (S$8.7 million).

HONG KONG - THE youngest daughter of Thailand's fugitive ex-Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has bought a luxury home in Hong Kong, according to public records, in the latest sign the family is expanding its base in the city to monitor the Thai political situation.

Ms Paetongtarn Shinawatra, 22, signed an agreement last month to buy the three-story house at the King's Park Hill development for 45 million Hong Kong dollars (S$8.7 million), according to land registry records obtained by The Associated Press on Wednesday.

The daughter began negotiating the deal for the property on a wooded hill on the Kowloon peninsula in early November before her father and mother, Pojaman Shinawatra, divorced, said Mr Henry Ng, the real estate agent who handled the transaction.

Mr Ng said he never met the buyer, who signed the agreement Nov 24, and only dealt with her representatives. The entire transaction, which usually takes two to three months, has yet to be finalised but the house is considered bought, he said.

The agent said the 3,313 square foot (307 square metre) home was bought at a bargain price that was 20.8 per cent lower than the previous transaction in the estate. He said since the deal, the price has already risen by 11 per cent to about HK$50 million.

Since Thaksin was ousted from power in a 2006 military coup, he has been living in exile mostly in London, Hong Kong and Dubai.

He also made one five-month return to Thailand early this year. Hong Kong has been one of the former telecom tycoon's most popular perches for observing the political scene in Thailand, just a three-hour flight away.

Forbes Asia magazine put Thaksin's estimated net worth at US$400 million in July after Thai authorities froze more than US$2 billion of his family's assets pending the outcome of corruption cases against him.

He was sentenced in absentia by a Thai court in October to two years in prison for violating a conflict of interest law while he was prime minister. He had his British visa revoked last month while he was traveling.

Source: New Straits Times - 11 December 2008

The above photo is that of the elder daughter.

I think the one that bought the property ( using daddy's big wallet of course ) is the younger but more meaty one !

[sriracha john]

The stoutly one is the new 22-year-old 207 Million Baht Homeowner

Paetongtarn Shinawatra

The pretty one is:

Pinthongtha Shinawatra

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thaksin-s-Da...74.html&hl=

Thaksin's Daughter Thailand's Richest Stockholder

Edited December 11, 2008 by sriracha john

[hammered]

Thaksins interview in the Arabian paper -catch me if you can - included a claim in the preamble that the UK authorities had frozen a huge amount of his assets forcing him to sell Manchester City. This seemed to have not beeen noticed at the time, so I assumed it was an error. However, the story that the UK froze a vast anmount of his money now seems to be doing the rounds on the streets of at least Chonburi. I think it was reported in a Thai newspaper too.

Does anyone have any clarification on this?

[sriracha john]

If Thaksin is no longer a gazillionaire, that might explain why Newin et al have bailed on him.

[sriracha john]

Paetongtarn has come a long way... her divorced parents must be so proud...

From a poorly showing as 3rd Runner-Up in a McDonald's Employee of the Month contest:

To:

An aerial view of the three-story homes at the King's Park Hill development in Hong Kong. The youngest daughter of fugitive ex-Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has bought a luxury home in Hong Kong, according to public records, in the latest sign the family is expanding its base in the city to monitor the political situation in Thailand.

Associated Press / 2008-12-11

[h90]

Thaksins interview in the Arabian paper -catch me if you can - included a claim in the preamble that the UK authorities had frozen a huge amount of his assets forcing him to sell Manchester City. This seemed to have not beeen noticed at the time, so I assumed it was an error. However, the story that the UK froze a vast anmount of his money now seems to be doing the rounds on the streets of at least Chonburi. I think it was reported in a Thai newspaper too.

Does anyone have any clarification on this?

I got that rumor as well, but no source. Would be nice to know if it is true or not.

[h90]

If Thaksin is no longer a gazillionaire, that might explain why Newin et al have bailed on him.

I am sure he still has a few thousand baht on a Singapore/Switzerland, etc bank account.

TRT 3rd Edition still offers: 5 Million+25+25 for MPs who change side.

Even if they cheat them for the last 25 it is 30 MBaht per head and more for the big boys.

(there are rumors that Nevin got cheated for some money on one of the last deals).

So Thaksin still has a bit more money on the bank account than I have .

[Samuian]

If Thaksin is no longer a gazillionaire, that might explain why Newin et al have bailed on him.

I am sure he still has a few thousand baht on a Singapore/Switzerland, etc bank account.

TRT 3rd Edition still offers: 5 Million+25+25 for MPs who change side.

Even if they cheat them for the last 25 it is 30 MBaht per head and more for the big boys.

(there are rumors that Nevin got cheated for some money on one of the last deals).

So Thaksin still has a bit more money on the bank account than I have .

May be they are "offered" that money but the pay check never arrives... you become a "share holder" of his empire, but without shares...

Cayman, Bahamas, Channel Islands and how about "Ample Rich" and other institutions?

Edited December 11, 2008 by Samuian

[permanent_disorder]

Paetongtarn has come a long way... her divorced parents must be so proud...

arn't that beautiful symbols of capitalism

first Mc Do, capitalism is there for the people

For the many, in many countries of the world, it supplies the Big Mac. This is a product people want, of good and reliable quality, at an excellent price, with no waiting. McDonald's provides flexible, short-term jobs, which are not highly-paid but which earn reasonable wages. Its food, despite the "junk" label, is relatively healthy. Hygiene is good. It is more sensitive to environmental concerns than many multinationals - and the court in the "McLibel" case three years ago concluded that it did not use beef from cattle grazed on cleared rainforest in Central America.

www.independent.co.uk In defence of McDonald's (and global capitalism)

and than money, capitalism is there for you

"Until and unless you discover that money is the root of all good, you ask for your own destruction. When money ceases to become the means by which men deal with one another, then men become the tools of other men. Blood, whips and guns--or dollars. Take your choice--there is no other.

Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another--their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

Ayn Rand Atlas Shrugged

[h90]

If Thaksin is no longer a gazillionaire, that might explain why Newin et al have bailed on him.

I am sure he still has a few thousand baht on a Singapore/Switzerland, etc bank account.

TRT 3rd Edition still offers: 5 Million+25+25 for MPs who change side.

Even if they cheat them for the last 25 it is 30 MBaht per head and more for the big boys.

(there are rumors that Nevin got cheated for some money on one of the last deals).

So Thaksin still has a bit more money on the bank account than I have .

May be they are "offered" that money but the pay check never arrives... you become a "share holder" of his empire, but without shares...

Cayman, Bahamas, Channel Islands and how about "Ample Rich" and other institutions?

At the moment the deal is: 5 Million if you apply for party membership, 25 Million after it got approved and 25 Million after TRT 3rd edition PM is installed.

So they can only cheat you for the last 25 Million. I am sure they still have billions, just maybe not 300 anymore.

[FatherF]

Thaksins interview in the Arabian paper -catch me if you can - included a claim in the preamble that the UK authorities had frozen a huge amount of his assets forcing him to sell Manchester City. This seemed to have not beeen noticed at the time, so I assumed it was an error. However, the story that the UK froze a vast anmount of his money now seems to be doing the rounds on the streets of at least Chonburi. I think it was reported in a Thai newspaper too.

Does anyone have any clarification on this?

I got that rumor as well, but no source. Would be nice to know if it is true or not.

I doubt very much that the UK could freeze any of his assets, as far as the UK government are aware, he has not commited any crime in the UK, and certainly not any crime that would result in seizure of assets, that is normally reserved for cases of major fraud, imbezelment, major drugs trafficking etc.

FF

[Samuian]

-----------------------------------------------------------

*Sam Moon, The Economist ties

(The Nation Nov 19 2008)

-Sam Moon has lived in and worked across Asia for the past 23 years working for The Economist, Dow Jones and his own company in partnership with BusinessWeek. Based mainly in Hong Kong, Sam spearheaded the effort of two global media companies, namely The Economist Group and Dow Jones, in transforming their respective conference activities into an actual growth-oriented and profitable business units. While in The Economist Group, Sam was also made responsible for The Economist Group’s conference business for the United States and Latin America, with the aim of facilitating a similar business turnaround for The Economist brand. Mr. Moon first met Dr. Thaksin Shinawatra 16 years ago and has remained in contact with him over the years. Sam holds a Bachelor of Arts degree from the University of Tennessee, United States.

----------------------------------------------------------

*Sam Moon likens Thaksin to Clinton

(Bangkok Post Nov 23 2008)

-"Having seen Dr Thaksin work with media, handle challenges and 'work' a crowded room, Mr Moon feels Dr Thaksin is one of only a handful of a new generation of Asian leaders who could become a 'Clinton from Asia'. Dr Thaksin's leadership ability, vision, charm and media savvy put him in a league all his own."

----------------------------------------------------------

*Thaksin likens himself to Nelson Mandela, threatens to expose 'certain figure'

(Reuters interview Nov 11 2008)

-Thaksin likened his struggle to that of South African freedom fighter and statesman Nelson Mandela. Thaksin's threat to reveal names of people who had cornered him would stop at a certain figure he has previously characterised as "charismatic" and "extra-constitutional".

Holds me breathless an explains the latest, now banned issue of The Economist... it's Takky PR!

Oh' boy how far will this man go?

"Asia's Clinton" - Joke of the Year!

The comparison with Nelson Mandela makes any peace/human rights activist puke!

[Plus]

The latest Economist issue bases all its analysis on ideas from Handley's book (banned here), and all it can say for the source is that "it hasn't been refuted yet".

Duh!

[animatic]

Not over the top,

this is over the Moon....

Thaksin is going to start a rival group of Moonies maybe?