U.S. forces, British divers join search for boys missing in Thai cave

[KiwiKiwi]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Hoorah! Semper Fi. Carry On BS. So far we have no news there has been ant damage to the cave system. It is just full of water.  You have no proof that any of the US servicemen on-site have any cave rescue experience. At least the UK cave guys have documented proof of diving expertise in caves and potholes plus they have knowledge of that particular cave system.  They are by the way the holders of the world record for the longest cave dive in history. 8.5kms. Sure they had a support team but...

The UK guys can't drill holes on their own and don't have chain of command access to equipment they didn't bring with them but if you had to pick two guys to actually go into a submerged cavern and have a look personally. Who would you choose?

 

But we shouldn't worry. We all know who will take credit when the children come out. 

 

 

Indeed we do. If they do, which I frankly doubt.

 

A cautious man I see...?

[pegman]

10 hours ago, Media1 said:

All to late. Being a former soldier the whole operation from day 1 was compromiszed. Your comment is without knowledge. Thai seal team not up to par. Secondly to many chiefs on site. No strategic plan on the table. Hit and miss Somchai style shots in the dark. Time is not on your side. A bit like the path to democracy which was not planned to begin with

Cave specialists, Seal teams 3. Search and rescue crews and heavy equipment onsite day 2 full green light. This has been a circus show.

You can not educated a soldier who served on matters of strategic planning. But you are welcome to have your say 

 

I take from your evasive answer that the American team is also not up to par then. That or you have no direct knowledge of what is truly happening on the ground. 

[simon43]

I find it strange that the rescue teams are squeezing through narrow passageways far from the entrance, which would seem to indicate that the missing kids also squeezed through these narrow passageways, (since they have not been located closer to the entrance).

 

I assume that the kids would only squeeze through such narrow passageways if they were forced to do so, - by rising water.  No inexperienced person would want (or even have the courage) to squeeze themselves through a dark,  narrow passageway that could lead nowhere.

 

So I find it strange indeed that they have not been located to date. I hope for the best, but realistically fear the worst ?

[steve73]

Squeezing through narrow gaps to see where they lead to is half the fun of caving...although obviously it's a bit easier when it's dry and you can see where you're going than for the rescuers with air tank, when the squeezes are  flooded with muddy water with zero visibility.

Remember also that the kids have visited this cave on a few previous occasions, and so are not totally "inexperienced".

 

The latest reports I see suggest the divers have managed to get to the next chamber (3).  Not clear if this is the so-called "Pattaya beach", but as yet no reported sign of the kids.

 

There's still a lot of cave beyond this where they could be sitting it out.. Plenty of hope yet.

[Media1]

7 hours ago, pegman said:

I take from your evasive answer that the American team is also not up to par then. That or you have no direct knowledge of what is truly happening on the ground. 

The US are a elite unit in all conditions. My whole point was they should have contacted the day after realizing the matter was evolving. Which they did not.

[pegman]

45 minutes ago, Media1 said:

The US are a elite unit in all conditions. My whole point was they should have contacted the day after realizing the matter was evolving. Which they did not.

 

45 minutes ago, Media1 said:

The US are a elite unit in all conditions. My whole point was they should have contacted the day after realizing the matter was evolving. Which they did not.

If they can't get to those kids now they wouldn't have been any better off a week ago. Two days or seven days doesn't matter. It's not possible period until the water is drained. 

[Media1]

6 minutes ago, pegman said:

 

If they can't get to those kids now they wouldn't have been any better off a week ago. Two days or seven days doesn't matter. It's not possible period until the water is drained. 

It's up to god now. But I hold little hope sorry

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, Media1 said:

The US are a elite unit in all conditions. My whole point was they should have contacted the day after realizing the matter was evolving. Which they did not.

1. What could the U.S. do that the Thais couldnt do ?
2.  And why arent the "elite Americans" being "elite " now and carrying out their eliteness ?

[KiwiKiwi]

34 minutes ago, Media1 said:

It's up to god now. But I hold little hope sorry

It's up to god [sic] now.

 

'Riiiiight. Thats all good then - it must be 'down the wat for a quick pray' time then... That'll work.

[Media1]

26 minutes ago, sanemax said:

1. What could the U.S. do that the Thais couldnt do ?
2.  And why arent the "elite Americans" being "elite " now and carrying out their eliteness ?

I already answered dig through posts. Operation is a complete abortion from go. A circus tent

You have not been involved in a military operation with elite officers. I not need to speak again. 

[Media1]

3 minutes ago, KiwiKiwi said:

It's up to god [sic] now.

 

'Riiiiight. Thats all good then - it must be 'down the wat for a quick pray' time then... That'll work.

I speak from experience it's the way it is. No food no light flooded tunnels and it's not possible for them.to venture that far in. Simple now it's a miracle and I hope also they have it happen.

[sanemax]

14 minutes ago, Media1 said:

I already answered dig through posts. Operation is a complete abortion from go. A circus tent

You have not been involved in a military operation with elite officers. I not need to speak again. 

   So you cannot say , just say everythings wrong and we could do better , without stating in which way and ignoring that fact that you are here and cannot do better

[greenchair]

20 minutes ago, Media1 said:

I already answered dig through posts. Operation is a complete abortion from go. A circus tent

You have not been involved in a military operation with elite officers. I not need to speak again. 

The American said we have to look at this from several angles. 

Drain the water. 

Look for alternative entrances from above. And another one that I can't remember. 

Which is what the Thai were already doing. 

It might surprise you to know that thailand also have an elite force that actually do most of their training in America England and Australia. The Thai elite force is there. The 3 brits have been the most valuable as they have found a new entrance and they are very experienced with these caves. I haven't heard that the American have been that much useful at all. 

[greenchair]

22 minutes ago, Media1 said:

I speak from experience it's the way it is. No food no light flooded tunnels and it's not possible for them.to venture that far in. Simple now it's a miracle and I hope also they have it happen.

I don't think they went that far in. 

They weren't prepared for a long stay. 

 

[greenchair]

I really thought they would find them now. 

[lvr181]

2 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I don't think they went that far in.

Based on?

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, greenchair said:

The American said we have to look at this from several angles. 

Drain the water. 

Look for alternative entrances from above. And another one that I can't remember. 

Which is what the Thai were already doing. 

It really is quite simple :

The cave is impassable when its flooded and all the water needs to be drained and that is what they are trying to do , dont need "the etite" to state that

[sanemax]

28 minutes ago, Media1 said:

I speak from experience it's the way it is. No food no light flooded tunnels and it's not possible for them.to venture that far in. Simple now it's a miracle and I hope also they have it happen.

They got to a certain point in the cave and were unable to set up a base camp there, because that area was liable to flooding 

[tingtongtourist]

7 hours ago, simon43 said:

I find it strange that the rescue teams are squeezing through narrow passageways far from the entrance, which would seem to indicate that the missing kids also squeezed through these narrow passageways, (since they have not been located closer to the entrance).

 

I assume that the kids would only squeeze through such narrow passageways if they were forced to do so, - by rising water.  No inexperienced person would want (or even have the courage) to squeeze themselves through a dark,  narrow passageway that could lead nowhere.

 

So I find it strange indeed that they have not been located to date. I hope for the best, but realistically fear the worst ?

The way i read the reports is that they think the kids is in the area they call Pattaya beach.

Sounds like the normal route to get to there is flooded so i guess that why they squeezing through passages, so can find another way to get to that spot.

 

Although unlikely, It might be that this so called Pattaya beach is a area that somehow will not be flooded when other parts of the cave does?

Or another possibility that if they were at this spot they could of got higher or to some other dry spot.  

 

I dont loose hope for them, actually i would not be suprised if the rescuers find a ways to get to this Pattaya beach they will find them there waiting it out.

 

they probably had some water to start with and maybe not in great condition but i wouldnt think 6 days in there will be absolutely fatal.

best for them remain positive i think

 

 

[CGW]

34 minutes ago, greenchair said:

It might surprise you to know that thailand also have an elite force that actually do most of their training in America England and Australia. The Thai elite force is there. The 3 brits have been the most valuable as they have found a new entrance and they are very experienced with these caves. I haven't heard that the American have been that much useful at all. 

I would hope that all involved are looking at this as a "Team" effort & there resources are being best utilized by the command center, if there are a thousand people roaming around trying to prove who has the most "value" the operation is doomed!

[Just Weird]

20 hours ago, Media1 said:

All to late. Being a former soldier the whole operation from day 1 was compromiszed. Your comment is without knowledge. Thai seal team not up to par. Secondly to many chiefs on site. No strategic plan on the table. Hit and miss Somchai style shots in the dark. Time is not on your side. A bit like the path to democracy which was not planned to begin with

Cave specialists, Seal teams 3. Search and rescue crews and heavy equipment onsite day 2 full green light. This has been a circus show.

You can not educated a soldier who served on matters of strategic planning. But you are welcome to have your say 

 

"But you are welcome to have your say".

Thank you for your condescension, I'm so honoured to have your go-ahead to comment.

 

"Being a former soldier the whole operation from day 1 was compromiszed. Your comment is without knowledge".

So you think that your "former soldier's" knowledge is unarguably better than that of the Forces' rescue teams who are currently in service with up to date training as opposed to your out of date training?  

By the way, professor, what makes you think that my comment is without knowledge, do you know me?  You may be right, though, that a soldier (presumably you're referring to yourself) can not [sic] be educated, I would imagine with you it may be an uphill task.

 

This is my comment that you chose to have your say about so is there any chance that your "superior knowledge" (inverted commas for obvious reasons when using that phrase)  would allow you to actually comment on what I said...

20 hours ago, Media1 said:

Apart from increased numbers, what has the US done so far that the Thai rescuers haven't, then?

Have the US personnel contributed anything tangible apart from increased numbers.  I'm asking the question seriously in anticipation of a serious response about their specific contribution that was unavailable from any of the other teams.

[sanemax]

8 hours ago, simon43 said:

I find it strange that the rescue teams are squeezing through narrow passageways far from the entrance, which would seem to indicate that the missing kids also squeezed through these narrow passageways, (since they have not been located closer to the entrance).

I assume that the kids would only squeeze through such narrow passageways if they were forced to do so, - by rising water.  No inexperienced person would want (or even have the courage) to squeeze themselves through a dark,  narrow passageway that could lead nowhere.

So I find it strange indeed that they have not been located to date. I hope for the best, but realistically fear the worst ?

The kids went caving , caving involves squeezing through small spaces and the kids had been there before .

   More likely that the kids went through the small spaces , got to the otherside and then got stranded because they way back was flooded

[Jingthing]

I don't think it's up to "God" now.

If there are any survivors it's up to the decisions they make and also the skill and "luck" of the human beings trying to rescue them.

I guess many people think good luck is because of "God" but then it would follow that bad luck would also be because of a deity. So if they all end up dead, "God" wanted that? 

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, lvr181 said:

Based on?

I just don't think they went that far. They were wearing flipflops. 

 

[greenchair]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

It really is quite simple :

The cave is impassable when its flooded and all the water needs to be drained and that is what they are trying to do , dont need "the etite" to state that

That's what I said. 

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, greenchair said:

I just don't think they went that far. They were wearing flipflops. 

 

Some were and some were discarded which I still don't understand why they would have done that.

[KiwiKiwi]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some were and some were discarded which I still don't understand why they would have done that.

 

Slipping on wet rocks?

 

 

[greenchair]

51 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Some were and some were discarded which I still don't understand why they would have done that.

It was late when they went there. Right after practice. Almost like a spur of the moment thing. 

So I don't think a long excursion was planned. 

Of course I might have to eat my words. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they were quite near. 

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, greenchair said:

It was late when they went there. Right after practice. Almost like a spur of the moment thing. 

So I don't think a long excursion was planned. 

Of course I might have to eat my words. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they were quite near. 

Well you're obviously right that they didn't enter in the morning so it would have been nuts to go super far into the cave if they expected to go back before dark. Obviously at one point they encountered the waters and what happened after that is a total mystery. 

[greenchair]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well you're obviously right that they didn't enter in the morning so it would have been nuts to go super far into the cave if they expected to go back before dark. Obviously at one point they encountered the waters and what happened after that is a total mystery. 

I'm just remembering past experiences. 

Sometimes they are so busy looking in the hard places, they forget about the simple things. 

Be awful if they were very near and missed them.