1 minute ago, tebee said:

au contraire - I think it's becoming obvious that the benefits we were promised just don't exist in the real world, but the downsides are more and more real.

tebee

 

You can spout as much doom and gloom as you like. You are so filled with negativity that I'm beginning to think your mum sent you for a pint of milk and ran away while you were at the shops.

 

I will stand by this

 

8 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Because you think it is a mistake does not make it a mistake 

 

Whether it is a mistake or not will not be known for a generation.

 

So come back in 15 - 20 years and we can discuss whether it was a mistake or not.

Spare me the crystal ball, or that you can see the future shoite.

7 minutes ago, sandyf said:

If it wasn't a mistake, there wouldn't be a problem and leaving would be as easy as they claimed.

This is how easy leaving the EU is

 

Quote

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

Do you see anything about freedom of movement ?

Do you see anything about trade ?

Do you see anything in there that is difficult ?

Do you see anything in there that remainers constantly howl about ?

 

What has made it difficult is remainers bumping their gums and trying their utmost to keep the UK joined at the hip to the EU.

Quote

The EU has issued a veiled warning that it will not budge on its red lines after Theresa May unveiled her long-awaited Brexit plan.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/12/uks-latest-brexit-plans-likely-to-cross-eu-red-lines-barnier-hints

 

Good

 

Time to tell the EU that Para 3 now applies from the 28 March 2019

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

and WTO rules start on the 29 March 2019.

JRM hit the nail on the head again.

 

Raab also faced a scathing response from the Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg, the chair of the European Research Group of Tory Eurosceptics. In a statement he called the white paper “the greatest vassalage since King John paid homage to Philip II at Le Goulet in 1200”.

Rees-Mogg said: “This white paper has not needed age to turn yellow. There are very few signs of the prime minister’s famous red lines. It is a pale imitation of the paper prepared by David Davis, a bad deal for Britain. It is not be something I would vote for nor is it what the British people voted for.”

 

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/12/brexit-white-paper-seeks-free-movement-for-skilled-workers-and-students

13 hours ago, nauseus said:

Continual P. Fear. Boring.

When the UK leaves the EU, any UK travellers will have to join the non-EU queues, unless of course there is yet another reciprocal agreement to be added to the negotiations.  That is not 'project fear' - what a cute name - it's reality, something that pro-Brexit people fail to acknowledge. Amongst other disastrous consequences about to befall the UK.

 

But hey, you can eat fish all-day instead of rats. 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

 

So you don't think people should ever be prepared to admit they made a mistake?

 

We already know that the electorate have been "prepared to admit they made a mistake" - as although they voted to join the EEC decades ago, they voted to leave the eu in the latest referendum!

3 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

When the UK leaves the EU, any UK travellers will have to join the non-EU queues,

Just imagine, they might also have to get a visa.

 

What a hardship ?

 

How will the mollycoddled cope ?

 

The indignity of having to stand in a queue ?

 

I take it you have never traveled further than the confines of the EU. The above is standard practice throughout most of the World.

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

When the UK leaves the EU, any UK travellers will have to join the non-EU queues, unless of course there is yet another reciprocal agreement to be added to the negotiations.  That is not 'project fear' - what a cute name - it's reality, something that pro-Brexit people fail to acknowledge. Amongst other disastrous consequences about to befall the UK.

 

But hey, you can eat fish all-day instead of rats. 

 

 

 

Ease of travel was not up front in the list of priorities for most leavers. If the EU want to adopt this stupid immigration strategy for UK passport holders after Brexit then that's up to it. 

10 minutes ago, vogie said:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/12/brexit-white-paper-seeks-free-movement-for-skilled-workers-and-students

You know you are having a really bad day and produced something of epic piles of dung when the remainer bible is attacking your White Paper ?

 

Quote

Never has there been a white paper of such profound potential importance and simultaneous absolute insignificance

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jul/12/theresa-may-brexit-plan-white-paper

 

Taxi for May.

27 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/12/uks-latest-brexit-plans-likely-to-cross-eu-red-lines-barnier-hints

 

Good

 

Time to tell the EU that Para 3 now applies from the 28 March 2019

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

and WTO rules start on the 29 March 2019.

Couldn't agree more.  Only then will the eu start genuinely negotiating trade terms.

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

You were talking about the dark secrets of Norway. I just replied.

OH I see. When I point out that my comment was a reply, that doesn't matter.

But when you do it, it's relevant.

Doublethink much?

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Couldn't agree more.  Only then will the eu start genuinely negotiating trade terms.

Sounds like a great idea (not).

Trade deals take many years and the UK will have to make those deals with a lot of countries because after a hard Brexit it will start from zero. Good luck with that approach....

18 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

As a long term project, the government may need to warn the people that there will be an immediate and  huge disruption to the UK economy and business and that people will lose jobs as a result,

Ohhhh wail, howl and cry buckets of tears ??

 

As a long term project, that should have already started, a plan should have been put in motion to start building, producing and making ALL the stuff that the UK currently imports but should be being produced in the UK.

 

Loads of jobs.

 

Great for fighting climate change.

 

Self reliant and great for the economy.

 

What is not to like ?

 

21 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Hopefully a generation of old pro-leaver codgers will have kicked the bucket by then.

And remainers complain that they get abused, castigated and their intelligence levels called into question on a daily basis ??

9 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Couldn't agree more.  Only then will the eu start genuinely negotiating trade terms.

 

Just now, whatsupdoc said:

Sounds like a great idea (not).

Trade deals take many years and the UK will have to make those deals with a lot of countries because after a hard Brexit it will start from zero. Good luck with that approach....

Fortunately, that's a problem for eu countries as well as the uk.

 

I've no doubt that if the uk made it clear that it was genuinely leaving - the eu would start talking trade very quickly!

 

The population of various eu countries are already unhappy with the eu, and companies would become equally unhappy if there is no trade deal.

5 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Ohhhh wail, howl and cry buckets of tears ??

 

As a long term project, that should have already started, a plan should have been put in motion to start building, producing and making ALL the stuff that the UK currently imports but should be being produced in the UK.

 

Loads of jobs.

 

Great for fighting climate change.

 

Self reliant and great for the economy.

 

What is not to like ?

 

 

So back to the North Korean economy model then?

 

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

You can spout as much doom and gloom as you like. You are so filled with negativity that I'm beginning to think your mum sent you for a pint of milk and ran away while you were at the shops.

 

I will stand by this

 

Spare me the crystal ball, or that you can see the future shoite.

This is House of Commons Brexit Committee full official internal Brexit Impact study.

Above 0 - benefits of Brexit

Below 0 - cost of Brexit 

Cutting to the chase, Brexit means a much greater recession than even the 2009 economic collapse after the financial crisis.

 

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Fortunately, that's a problem for eu countries as well as the uk.

 

I've no doubt that if the uk made it clear that it was genuinely leaving - the eu would start talking trade very quickly!

 

The population of various eu countries are already unhappy with the eu, and companies would become equally unhappy if there is no trade deal.

A company in the EU can compensate for the loss of trade with the UK by dealing with other counties (inside or outside of the EU). The UK, on the other hand will lose all of its trade deals (because they are currently still trading via the EU made deals).

Companies in the EU are already looking for alternatives in the case of a hard Brexit, but what can UK companies do?

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

This is House of Commons Brexit Committee full official internal Brexit Impact study.

Above 0 - benefits of Brexit

Below 0 - cost of Brexit 

Cutting to the chase, Brexit means a much greater recession than even the 2009 economic collapse after the financial crisis.

 

tebee

 

Here is a Brexit business opportunity for you.

 

Take your negativity and bottle it. You have a market of at least 16 million in the UK alone that will need at least a bottle a week to satisfy their negativity.

 

At £1 a bottle you will be rich beyond your wildest dreams within a month.

 

Turn that negativity into creativity and hop to it 

2 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

tebee

 

Here is a Brexit business opportunity for you.

 

Take your negativity and bottle it. You have a market of at least 16 million in the UK alone that will need at least a bottle a week to satisfy their negativity.

 

At £1 a bottle you will be rich beyond your wildest dreams within a month.

 

Turn that negativity into creativity and hop to it 

I guess when the facts are against you, all you've got is empty ridicule.

1 hour ago, The Renegade said:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/12/uks-latest-brexit-plans-likely-to-cross-eu-red-lines-barnier-hints

 

Good

 

Time to tell the EU that Para 3 now applies from the 28 March 2019

 

http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html

 

and WTO rules start on the 29 March 2019.

And the British economy (and the GBP) go down the pan on 30th March 2019.

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

And the British economy (and the GBP) go down the pan on 30th March 2019.

Great crystal ball you have ?

 

Or did your Spidey sense kick in and tell you the future ? ??

6 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

This is House of Commons Brexit Committee full official internal Brexit Impact study.

Above 0 - benefits of Brexit

Below 0 - cost of Brexit 

Cutting to the chase, Brexit means a much greater recession than even the 2009 economic collapse after the financial crisis.

It gets worse, Trump has just announced that you can forget the US FTA.

10 hours ago, kwilco said:

no it IS patronising and unfortunately like many uneducated elderly you fail to realise the biological and dementia changes that often lead older people to make more and more irrational and right wing decisions.

 

Back to the childish insults once again.

 

You seem to have no idea how educated or uneducated elderly people are.

 

What exactly IS an irrational and right wing decision?

 

Who gets to make that decision? Certainly not you.

3 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It gets worse, Trump has just announced that you can forget the US FTA.

It's really not worse. Already tariffs imposed by the US on British goods are very low, If anything, the US will insist on the UK lowering its food standards to allow US agribusiness to decimate UK agriculture and food manufacturing.

 

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Time has a habit of telling all.

 

Mr Trump added that he had advised Ms May against pursuing a soft Brexit strategy and said she "didn't listen" to him. 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/trump-brexit-latest-uk-visit-theresa-may-white-paper-trade-deal-us-president-a8445106.html

 

Who does listen to him, and how many of them actually understand him.

1 minute ago, bushdoctor said:

 

The deaf, dumb and blind kids cannot hear, understand or see any of this ?

4 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Great crystal ball you have ?

 

Or did your Spidey sense kick in and tell you the future ? ??

No, just economics 101. See the chart that Teebee posted.

 

Also, days before the vote the polls suddenly showed Remain having a clear lead. The GBP rose 10% on the strength of that. When the result was announced, the GBP tanked by 30%. Remain = strong pound, Brexit = weak pound.

 

Any expats who rely on a strong stock market and a high value pound will have to consider packing their bags and going home if we leave with no deal. Quite a few have already. Maybe that's what you secretly want?

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

No, just economics 101

Still waiting for Osborne's & the IMF's economic 101.

 

The one that went '' immediate recession'' in the event of a leave vote.

 

Stick to spinning webs, you should be better at that than trying to spin fear.

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

The deaf, dumb and blind kids cannot hear, understand or see any of this ?

 

Perhaps I should mention this is from 10th November 2015. ?