Italy shuts out another migrant rescue ship

[rooster59]

Italy shuts out another migrant rescue ship

 

ROME (Reuters) - Italy's new government barred a migrant rescue ship from docking at its ports on Friday, in its third such refusal this month, hours after a tense meeting of European leaders over migration ended.

 

Transport Minister Danilo Toninelli said in a statement he had received a formal request from the interior ministry, headed by far-right leader Matteo Salvini, to deny Spanish charity Proactiva Open Arms entry on the grounds that it was a danger to public order.

 

In less than a month since taking office, Salvini has spearheaded a new government policy to shut ports to charity ships that pick up migrants from overcrowded smugglers' boats.

 

The Aquarius, carrying 630 migrants, and Lifeline, carrying some 230 people, ended up in Spain and Malta respectively when Italy closed its ports to them earlier this month. The Open Arms vessel has no migrants on board.

 

An Open Arms spokesman had no immediate comment.

 

European Union leaders on Friday came to a hard-fought agreement over migration that Salvini and Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte said was positive for Italy. However, the agreement does not oblige other EU states to share the burden of sea rescues. [L8N1TV3XR]

 

More than 650,000 migrants have come ashore in Italy since 2014, mostly after being rescued at sea off the Libyan coast by private and public groups. Italy is sheltering about 170,000, but the number of arrivals has plummeted this year.

 

From Libya, the main departure point, they have fallen more than 80 percent. Deaths at sea are estimated by the United Nations at nearly 1,000 so far this year.

 

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-06-30

[taipan1949]

Good job Italy. It is a little late but better late than never. I am hoping France, Spain and Greece follow your sensible lead very soon.

 

[lovelomsak]

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ROME (Reuters) - Italy's new government barred a migrant rescue ship from docking at its ports on Friday, 

 

In less than a month since taking office, Salvini has spearheaded a new government policy to shut ports to charity ships that pick up migrants from overcrowded smugglers' boats.

 The above says it all huh.

  Smugglers get paid to smuggle people. They now can transfer their cargo to these rescue ships and pocket the money. Pretty good business huh.

  Any one who supports illegal immigrants supports human smuggling. Think about it.

  So all the holy left wingers are basically ok with human smuggling if it suits their purpose huh.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, lovelomsak said:

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ROME (Reuters) - Italy's new government barred a migrant rescue ship from docking at its ports on Friday, 

 

In less than a month since taking office, Salvini has spearheaded a new government policy to shut ports to charity ships that pick up migrants from overcrowded smugglers' boats.

 The above says it all huh.

  Smugglers get paid to smuggle people. They now can transfer their cargo to these rescue ships and pocket the money. Pretty good business huh.

  Any one who supports illegal immigrants supports human smuggling. Think about it.

  So all the holy left wingers are basically ok with human smuggling if it suits their purpose huh.

I do wish posters would give up on the right/left wing 'narrative'!

 

I'm left-wing, but fully agree with Italy's decision regarding these 'rescue ships', and hope the other countries affected follow suit.

 

Fully agree with the rest of your post though.

[otherstuff1957]

While I usually have left-wing/progressive viewpoints, I can't help but feel that these 'rescue' ships are thinly disguised human traffickers.

 

They frequently turn off their ais transponders and are untraceable for days at a time.  When they turn their transponders back on, they are in international waters with loads of refugees!

 

 

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, otherstuff1957 said:

While I usually have left-wing/progressive viewpoints, I can't help but feel that these 'rescue' ships are thinly disguised human traffickers.

 

They frequently turn off their ais transponders and are untraceable for days at a time.  When they turn their transponders back on, they are in international waters with loads of refugees!

 

 

I don't disbelieve you, but evidence would be appreciated for these assertions.

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

I don't disbelieve you, but evidence would be appreciated for these assertions.

I think we will   agree with the article that states  the ships pick up migrants from smuggler ships. It is irrelevant if the ship's ais transponders are on or off. Even if the transponder was on it would make no difference I am sure the smuggler boat moves  undetected.,so who knows when  or where they exchange cargo. The cargo is still trafficked humans. 

  So what we have is migrants (illegal migrants) are ferried from land to these rescue boats which deliver the cargo as humanitarians. Italy is wise to this and has put a stop to it good for them.

[simple1]

24 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

I think we will   agree with the article that states  the ships pick up migrants from smuggler ships. It is irrelevant if the ship's ais transponders are on or off. Even if the transponder was on it would make no difference I am sure the smuggler boat moves  undetected.,so who knows when  or where they exchange cargo. The cargo is still trafficked humans. 

  So what we have is migrants (illegal migrants) are ferried from land to these rescue boats which deliver the cargo as humanitarians. Italy is wise to this and has put a stop to it good for them.

Italian Navy has and still does transfer rescued people to NGO ships - your argument is deeply flawed. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by simple1

[Deli]

Do we need to unbury Admiral Nelson to sink these ships before they reach Europe ?

[Baerboxer]

3 hours ago, otherstuff1957 said:

While I usually have left-wing/progressive viewpoints, I can't help but feel that these 'rescue' ships are thinly disguised human traffickers.

 

They frequently turn off their ais transponders and are untraceable for days at a time.  When they turn their transponders back on, they are in international waters with loads of refugees!

 

 

 

There have been some allegations that some "rescue' ngo's were cooperating and meeting up with traffickers to take over their "cargo". All in the interests of safety of course!

[KhunBENQ]

33 minutes ago, Deli said:

Do we need to unbury Admiral Nelson to sink these ships before they reach Europe ?

Let's hope it does  not get that nasty in the near future.

But just don't forget that Africa's population will grow from 1 billion now to 2 billion in 2050 if nothing drastically changes (and then would be 4 billion in 2100).

And a large percentage lives in poverty.

I will likely not reach 2050. Heaven thanks.

[Ulic]

2 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

I think we will   agree with the article that states  the ships pick up migrants from smuggler ships. It is irrelevant if the ship's ais transponders are on or off. Even if the transponder was on it would make no difference I am sure the smuggler boat moves  undetected.,so who knows when  or where they exchange cargo. The cargo is still trafficked humans. 

  So what we have is migrants (illegal migrants) are ferried from land to these rescue boats which deliver the cargo as humanitarians. Italy is wise to this and has put a stop to it good for them.

Not exactly true as far as I am concerned. If rescue ships are actually turning off transponders so they

can pick up migrants in Lybian territorial waters and not international waters what is to stop them from

docking at Lybian ports and making everything safer. No feet ever get wet, smugglers can maximize profits.

I don't think the smuggler boats even have outboards anymore. They are just towed out a couple of miles

and they then call/radio "rescue" ships for "Uber Boat" pickup. If the ships are turning off AIS the captains and

crew should be charged with people smuggling. I am sure they have a professional crew paid by charity groups.

That would make them paid people smugglers.

[lovelomsak]

2 hours ago, simple1 said:

Italian Navy has and still does transfer rescued people to NGO ships - your argument is deeply flawed. 

Gee I did not know I had presented an arqument please fill me in on what my arqument was.

[lovelomsak]

2 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Not exactly true as far as I am concerned. If rescue ships are actually turning off transponders so they

can pick up migrants in Lybian territorial waters and not international waters what is to stop them from

docking at Lybian ports and making everything safer. No feet ever get wet, smugglers can maximize profits.

I don't think the smuggler boats even have outboards anymore. They are just towed out a couple of miles

and they then call/radio "rescue" ships for "Uber Boat" pickup. If the ships are turning off AIS the captains and

crew should be charged with people smuggling. I am sure they have a professional crew paid by charity groups.

That would make them paid people smugglers.

That crossed my mind too. But hey that will bring out the nasty people here that will attack so I stayed away from that.

[Opl]

15 minutes ago, Ulic said:

Not exactly true as far as I am concerned. If rescue ships are actually turning off transponders so they

can pick up migrants in Lybian territorial waters and not international waters what is to stop them from

docking at Lybian ports and making everything safer. No feet ever get wet, smugglers can maximize profits.

I don't think the smuggler boats even have outboards anymore. They are just towed out a couple of miles

and they then call/radio "rescue" ships for "Uber Boat" pickup. If the ships are turning off AIS the captains and

crew should be charged with people smuggling. I am sure they have a professional crew paid by charity groups.

That would make them paid people smugglers.

yes it maybe the case, even only 3 feet after the Lybian territorial waters line, which is precisely the package sold for the trip by the smugglers, also the reason why the rubber boats are overbooked  

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, lovelomsak said:

Gee I did not know I had presented an arqument please fill me in on what my arqument was.

From your spelling, seems English is not your first language; to assist your comprehension...

argument - a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory

[lovelomsak]

32 minutes ago, simple1 said:

From your spelling, seems English is not your first language; to assist your comprehension...

argument - a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory

Thanks for that always good to fully understand what others mean

  So now can you fill me in on what my arqument was I still do not get it

  This is what I posted please pick it apart and explain please so I understand the arqument part

 

 think we will   agree with the article that states  the ships pick up migrants from smuggler ships. It is irrelevant if the ship's ais transponders are on or off. Even if the transponder was on it would make no difference I am sure the smuggler boat moves  undetected.,so who knows when  or where they exchange cargo. The cargo is still trafficked humans. 

  So what we have is migrants (illegal migrants) are ferried from land to these rescue boats which deliver the cargo as humanitarians. Italy is wise to this and has put a stop to it good for them.

[RT555]

Take all the refugees in camps, Spain Portugal. France, Italy, Greece.. And take them to camps on the African coast. Let them All try it again... I don't want immigrants cookingy food. 

[simple1]

1 hour ago, lovelomsak said:

Thanks for that always good to fully understand what others mean

  So now can you fill me in on what my arqument was I still do not get it

  This is what I posted please pick it apart and explain please so I understand the arqument part

 

 think we will   agree with the article that states  the ships pick up migrants from smuggler ships. It is irrelevant if the ship's ais transponders are on or off. Even if the transponder was on it would make no difference I am sure the smuggler boat moves  undetected.,so who knows when  or where they exchange cargo. The cargo is still trafficked humans. 

  So what we have is migrants (illegal migrants) are ferried from land to these rescue boats which deliver the cargo as humanitarians. Italy is wise to this and has put a stop to it good for them.

Why you believe the Italian Navy has stopped 'migrants' travelling by sea I do not understand as hundreds are found at sea every week. BTW currently 40% are eventually assessed as genuine refugees.

 

Your reasoning (argument) was that NGO vessels are solely picking up asylum seekers from traffickers which is proven to be incorrect as Italian Navy, among other nation vessels rescue those at sea and transfer to NGO shipping. Secondly why you assume illegal vessels can move undetected by Libyan Coast Guard and other naval shipping is rather odd given...

 

http://www.france24.com/en/20180625-libyan-coastguard-picks-nearly-1000-migrants-one-day

 

Libya has a truly awful reputation of mistreatment for those held in detention, those forcibly returned to Libya will likely face many horrors e.g.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved/take-action/urgent-stop-selling-and-detention-of-refugees-and-migrants-in-libya/

Edited June 30, 2018 by simple1

[lovelomsak]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Why you believe the Italian Navy has stopped 'migrants' travelling by sea I do not understand as hundreds are found at sea every week. BTW currently 40% are eventually assessed as genuine refugees.

 

Your reasoning (argument) was that NGO vessels are solely picking up asylum seekers from traffickers which is proven to be incorrect as Italian Navy, among other nation vessels rescue those at sea and transfer to NGO shipping. Secondly why you assume illegal vessels can move undetected by Libyan Coast Guard and other naval shipping is rather odd given...

 

http://www.france24.com/en/20180625-libyan-coastguard-picks-nearly-1000-migrants-one-day

 

Libya has a truly awful reputation of mistreatment for those held in detention, those forcibly returned to Libya will likely face many horrors e.g.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/get-involved/take-action/urgent-stop-selling-and-detention-of-refugees-and-migrants-in-libya/

Now I see were you found the arquement in my post.

 You made it up.

 Read again please I never once mentioned the navy so where you got that is really weird and incorrect. So first arquement is wrong no arquement form me just your imaginations running wild

  Second mistake by you. I never said NGO vessels were solely picking up asylum seekers. Why do you lie so much

 The reason I believe ships can navigate undetected is because they can sorry.. 

[Sir Dude]

Italy isn't a dumping ground for refugees and they are within their rights to be a little pissed off...and these NGOs are facilitating the criminal migration. The way to stop it is to adopt the Aussie model, take the do-gooder NGOs out of the equation and make it perfectly clear that unless you are fleeing state sponsored persecution and you can prove it...might as well not bother. Highly skilled migration is to be embraced with qualified people applying who will contribute and pay tax/not commit crime/contribute etc. - no drama - , the rest can take a hike...not OK. Despite the howls of the unrealistic, the EU is not some collection point for the economically downtrodden of the world. If the EU leaders don't get to grips with it then they will see the downfall of all they think is so precious. Italy is right, it's been thrown under the bus (along with Greece) by the Brussels elite.

[Trouble]

13 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

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ROME (Reuters) - Italy's new government barred a migrant rescue ship from docking at its ports on Friday, 

 

In less than a month since taking office, Salvini has spearheaded a new government policy to shut ports to charity ships that pick up migrants from overcrowded smugglers' boats.

 The above says it all huh.

  Smugglers get paid to smuggle people. They now can transfer their cargo to these rescue ships and pocket the money. Pretty good business huh.

  Any one who supports illegal immigrants supports human smuggling. Think about it.

  So all the holy left wingers are basically ok with human smuggling if it suits their purpose huh.

Maybe what the rescue ships should do is rescue the migrants and take them back to the port of embarkation. The Italian navy should sink the smugglers ships with the smugglers on them.  Problem solved. It's humane as the migrants have been saved and returned safely and the smugglers are out of business.

Edited June 30, 2018 by Trouble

[simple1]

10 hours ago, lovelomsak said:

Now I see were you found the arquement in my post.

 You made it up.

 Read again please I never once mentioned the navy so where you got that is really weird and incorrect. So first arquement is wrong no arquement form me just your imaginations running wild

  Second mistake by you. I never said NGO vessels were solely picking up asylum seekers. Why do you lie so much

 The reason I believe ships can navigate undetected is because they can sorry.. 

Within your original post on these matters you made no attempt whatsoever to qualify your comments. No further response as a complete waste of time getting you to acknowledge facts.

[nkg]

13 hours ago, simple1 said:

From your spelling, seems English is not your first language; to assist your comprehension...

argument - a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory

 

I have noticed that you try to portray yourself as more intelligent than other people on this forum.

 

But here you come across as smug and patronizing.

 

As a so-called liberal, you are supposed to hold yourself to higher standards.

[simple1]

17 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

I have noticed that you try to portray yourself as more intelligent than other people on this forum.

 

But here you come across as smug and patronizing.

 

As a so-called liberal, you are supposed to hold yourself to higher standards.

I do my research and usually backup my replies with credible source links contrary to many; if you perceive my method as endeavouring to be more 'intelligent', 'smug and patronizing' - so be it.

 

The member allegedly didn't understand the word 'argument' in the context of my reply so I assumed English is not his first language and provided clarification. As opposed to yourself I politely responded.

Edited June 30, 2018 by simple1

[nkg]

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The member allegedly didn't understand the word 'argument' in the context of my reply so I assumed English is not his first language and provided clarification. As opposed to yourself I politely responded.

 

Feigning misunderstanding is disingenuous, as well you know. You were attempting to dismiss his point by attacking his literacy. I called you out on it. Making fun of people's language skills is beneath you.

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

Feigning misunderstanding is disingenuous, as well you know. You were attempting to dismiss his point by attacking his literacy. I called you out on it. Making fun of people's language skills is beneath you.

Feigning misunderstanding is disingenuous - agree, but wanted to see how he would respond to my providing a definition. Your accusation is incorrect.

Edited June 30, 2018 by simple1

[nkg]

Just now, simple1 said:

Off Topic and false accusations

 

Don't be silly. Anywhere on the internet, "English is not your first language", followed by something copy and pasted from a dictionary website, is an insult. Nobody believes your assertation that you were trying to be helpful by providing the definition of a word.

 

I'm sure that you have reported my posts to the moderators, who will quickly take them down. But it is your post that deserves to be removed.

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

Don't be silly. Anywhere on the internet, "English is not your first language", followed by something copy and pasted from a dictionary website, is an insult. Nobody believes your assertation that you were trying to be helpful by providing the definition of a word.

 

I'm sure that you have reported my posts to the moderators, who will quickly take them down. But it is your post that deserves to be removed.

I have honestly replied, but you will not accept, so...

 

Nope, but highly likely a Mod will remove the dialogue as they have with other personalised attack comments within this topic.

[nkg]

9 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Feigning misunderstanding is disingenuous - agree, but wanted to see how he would respond to my providing a definition. Your accusation is incorrect.

 

And you would no doubt agree that he responded in a fair and reasonable manner.

 

Look, I like your posts. They are usually fair, reasonable and logical. They often provide a good alternative viewpoint. I just thought that your standards had slipped a little here.