1 minute ago, simple1 said:

I have honestly replied, but you will not accept, so...

 

Nope, but highly likely a Mod will remove the dialogue as they have with other personalised attack comments within this topic.

 

I would not have posted what I did if I had seen your edited reply. I'm sorry that you choose to see my comments as an attack.

10 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Italy isn't a dumping ground for refugees and they are within their rights to be a little pissed off...and these NGOs are facilitating the criminal migration. The way to stop it is to adopt the Aussie model, take the do-gooder NGOs out of the equation and make it perfectly clear that unless you are fleeing state sponsored persecution and you can prove it...might as well not bother. Highly skilled migration is to be embraced with qualified people applying who will contribute and pay tax/not commit crime/contribute etc. - no drama - , the rest can take a hike...not OK. Despite the howls of the unrealistic, the EU is not some collection point for the economically downtrodden of the world. If the EU leaders don't get to grips with it then they will see the downfall of all they think is so precious. Italy is right, it's been thrown under the bus (along with Greece) by the Brussels elite.

As a clarification 'boat people' trying to enter Australian waters were not assisted by NGOs, they just lobbied the Oz government to change policy. In addition the Oz government use of Manus island has been declared illegal as in breach of International Human Rights and ordered to be closed down by PNG Supreme Court. Accordingly at this stage not a model for other countries to emulate.

11 minutes ago, nkg said:

 

And you would no doubt agree that he responded in a fair and reasonable manner.

 

Look, I like your posts. They are usually fair, reasonable and logical. They often provide a good alternative viewpoint. I just thought that your standards had slipped a little here.

Don't concur with your first sentence, as to the rest - thanks for the feedback

16 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

There have been some allegations that some "rescue' ngo's were cooperating and meeting up with traffickers to take over their "cargo". All in the interests of safety of course!

 

Allegations made by whom?

" “We are a humanitarian agency, and we carry out proactive search and rescue operations because the alternative is that hundreds of people will die from drowning, asphyxiation and dehydration. If we just wait 60 miles out to sea for boats that may pass by chance, rather than going to the areas where the smugglers are operating, there will be many more deaths. ”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/27/ngo-rescues-off-libya-encourage-traffickers-eu-borders-chief

 

"a Frontex border agency February report claimed that charities operating near the Libyan coast “unintentionally help criminals achieve their objectives at minimum cost, strengthen their business model by increasing the chances of success”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-boat-rescue-charities-medicins-sans-frontieres-save-the-children-mediterranean-sea-migrants-a7699571.html

 

" “There are smugglers who work for the pleasure of making money, even in Zuwara, but there are others who work for the pleasure of putting pressure on you [Europeans]. It’s simply not going to stop. The borders in the south [of Libya] are open, and there is always going to be an appetite for it.”

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/24/libyas-people-smugglers-how-will-they-catch-us-theyll-soon-move-on

 

 

Edited July 1, 20188 yr by Opl

" Follow the money: What are the EU's migration policy priorities?""From tackling the root causes of migration to fighting human trafficking: The EU has many different goals for its migration policy. On paper they are sold as equal. Financially, they are not, as DW data analysis shows."

 

http://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/7590/follow-the-money-what-are-the-eu-s-migration-policy-priorities

It's an industry like any other, a lot of people are making money off the back of the migrants.

If only every European country took the same position as italy does now from the very begining, Europe would still be a beautifull place. now it's become a shithole.

11 hours ago, Voodoochile said:

If only every European country took the same position as italy does now from the very begining, Europe would still be a beautifull place. now it's become a shithole.

I stayed in Paris and Strasbourg and visited parts of Switzerland and Germany late last year, never came across any 'shithole'. To call out Europe in the manner which you have is ridiculous.

Edited July 6, 20188 yr by simple1

There are many African Migrants willing to risk the journey to Europe. Many but it is but a trickle. If something is not done to change their prospects in Africa it will become a deluge. Sometimes you have to give a spanner to someone to fix their car so they do not steal yours.

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

I stayed in Paris and Strasbourg and visited parts of Switzerland and Germany late last year, never came across any 'shithole'. To call out Europe in the manner which you have is ridiculous.

 

Wouldn't describe Europe the way poster replied to did, clearly over the top.

Never coming across any areas with significant presence of asylum seekers/refugees/migrants, and which aren't in the best of shapes (to put it mildly) is a choice.

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by Morch

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

I stayed in Paris and Strasbourg and visited parts of Switzerland and Germany late last year, never came across any 'shithole'. To call out Europe in the manner which you have is ridiculous.

"There are none so blind as those who do not want to see"

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

I stayed in Paris and Strasbourg and visited parts of Switzerland and Germany late last year, never came across any 'shithole'. To call out Europe in the manner which you have is ridiculous.

Well i stay in Britain for a month or so every year and i never see immigrants ,but then ,they do not want to go to the countryside where my family live ,i never go to London ,Birmingham ,Luton , etc etc .

On 6/30/2018 at 1:38 PM, simple1 said:

Italian Navy has and still does transfer rescued people to NGO ships - your argument is deeply flawed. 

<deleted> are you talking about? It's quiet the opposite NGO boats are picking up migrants few miles off Libya and transfer them in international waters. Some of this boat are not even legally registered, if was for me I WILL SHOOT THEM DOWN...

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

Wouldn't describe Europe the way poster replied to did, clearly over the top.

Never coming across any areas with significant presence of asylum seekers/refugees/migrants, and which aren't in the best of shapes (to put it mildly) is a choice.

Sure if you go looking you will find, basically the same anywhere. e.g. When I use to regularly visit the US plenty of places I wouldn't go 'looking'.

4 minutes ago, MekkOne said:

<deleted> are you talking about? It's quiet the opposite NGO boats are picking up migrants few miles off Libya and transfer them in international waters. Some of this boat are not even legally registered, if was for me I WILL SHOOT THEM DOWN...

A member fantasizing the murder of civilians - regrettable not the first on this forum

2 minutes ago, simple1 said:

A member fantasizing the murder of civilians - regrettable not the first on this forum

I wrote I will shoot the boats down, did I mention if the boats has to be filled up with migrant or empty? So do not make any assumption... BTW I'm not taking judgment from somebody that comes from the most racist/fascist country in the world when it comes to immigration laws and order...

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

I stayed in Paris and Strasbourg and visited parts of Switzerland and Germany late last year, never came across any 'shithole'. To call out Europe in the manner which you have is ridiculous.

 

 

36 minutes ago, Opl said:

 

 

As said can find if you go looking, but does not represent Europe in general which is lovely. I'm curious what you and others get out of your constant focusing on the negative - comes across as a miserable way of life to me.

 

For a while I stayed in the Gare l'Est area, also parts of Paris,  travelled along the Seine, never observed such scenes and never was threatened and so on. The only times I observed 'street people' were homeless whites, appearance of alcoholics, sleeping in doorways. 

 

Think I've found the source of one of your photos...

 

https://www.thelocal.fr/20180524/thousands-of-migrants-to-be-quickly-evacuated-from-paris-canal-camps

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Sure if you go looking you will find, basically the same anywhere. e.g. When I use to regularly visit the US plenty of places I wouldn't go 'looking'.

 

In some European cities/countries not a whole lot of "looking" is involved.

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

In some European cities/countries not a whole lot of "looking" is involved.

Go to a city as large as Paris, London and so on you would have to have a reasonable idea where to find the 'undesirable' locations. I reject your observation

3 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Go to a city as large as Paris, London and so on you would have to have a reasonable idea where to find the 'undesirable' locations. I reject your observation

 

I think you're cherry-picking there, a bit. Didn't say this applies to all European cities, and not to the same degree. Granted, my personal (former, the Mrs. doesn't hold with that) interest in cities' underbelly parts may effect what I notice when traveling, but not like really hard to find or unknown as presented.

 

Good job Italy. Keep it up Europe!

23 minutes ago, simple1 said:

As said can find if you go looking, but does not represent Europe in general which is lovely. I'm curious what you and others get out of your constant focusing on the negative - comes across as a miserable way of life to me.

 

For a while I stayed in the Gare l'Est area, also parts of Paris,  travelled along the Seine, never observed such scenes and never was threatened and so on. The only times I observed 'street people' were homeless whites, appearance of alcoholics, sleeping in doorways. 

 

Think I've found the source of one of your photos...

 

https://www.thelocal.fr/20180524/thousands-of-migrants-to-be-quickly-evacuated-from-paris-canal-camps

The wealthy areas remain largely free from these ghettos - only the poor areas are evaluated as the 'right area' for immigrants centres.

4 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think you're cherry-picking there, a bit. Didn't say this applies to all European cities, and not to the same degree. Granted, my personal (former, the Mrs. doesn't hold with that) interest in cities' underbelly parts may effect what I notice when traveling, but not like really hard to find or unknown as presented.

 

 Didn't infer "unknown", that's your interpretation. IMO members grossly exaggerate by pinpointing problem areas; it ain't the norm.

1 minute ago, simple1 said:

 Didn't infer "unknown", that's your interpretation. IMO members grossly exaggerate by pinpointing problem areas; it ain't the norm.

 

Already agreed about exaggerations. Point made was that it's not like there's nothing to it, though.

There may be hope for these poor souls. If the angels Merkel or May can save them it would be another blessing for Germany or the UK. Assalamualaikum

Edited July 7, 20188 yr by Peasandmash

9 hours ago, simple1 said:

I stayed in Paris and Strasbourg and visited parts of Switzerland and Germany late last year, never came across any 'shithole'. To call out Europe in the manner which you have is ridiculous.

Yes well.... You visited and I live there. Beleive me when I say shithole.

also was it your first visit? If so how could you tell if the places you visited are better or worst than they where before. 

1 hour ago, Peasandmash said:

There may be hope for these poor souls. If the angels Merkel or May can save them it would be another blessing for Germany or the UK. Assalamualaikum

because Italians are evil racist fascist people... You'll see how many of that poor souls (that are poor, but everyone of them got an Iphone) will be accepted in Germany or UK...

1 hour ago, Peasandmash said:

There may be hope for these poor souls. If the angels Merkel or May can save them it would be another blessing for Germany or the UK. Assalamualaikum

BTW they can come to Italy with a flight, It's cheaper than the boat, but this is difficult because you have to obtain a visa and pass a police check to see if you are a criminal or not...