Wat Tamkrabok

[garro]

I would just like to share my experiences of Wat Tamgrabok Treatment Center and to reccomend it to anybody in need of help with their addictions.

I stuggled with a serious alcohol problem from the age of seventeen until thirty-six when I made my way to Wat Tamgrabok; that was seven months ago. At the end of my drinking I felt completely defeated, it was a physical stuggle to keep the alcohol down but I still I continued to drink. Four years previously I had been informed that my liver was being damaged as proved from results from a liver function test; this did not stop me but only increased the worry that drink was causing.

I did have previous experience of sobriety; due to spending two years in AA but I left due to my belief that I was too young at 25 to be a serious alcoholic. I still have enormous respect for AA but they are not part of this journey into sobriety. I do however agree with much of the 'Big Book' and believe that like Bill W it was a 'spiritual experience' that completely changed me.

When I arrived at Wat Tamgrabok I was prepared to do anything told me to stop drinking; I would have run around Thailand naked if they asked me but luckily they didn't. The regime at the temple is very tough; all your clothes and money are taken away and you need to wear an outfit similar to a prison uniform. I was informed that the police in the area are well aware of what the uniform means and have no problem escourting runaways back to the temple. The treatment also involves vomiting litres of medicine up each day in front of a crowd who claps and cheers (this is a really humbling and life changing experience; and I am getting upset and full of gratitude just thinking about it; shit I even started crying).

The most important part of the treatment, for me at least, was the satja or solemn vow never to drink again. This is done in front of a senior monk and once I made it I knew that my story with alcohol was over. This satja is what keeps me sober and it has worked perfectly.

At Wat Tamgrabok there is a very wise Swiss monk who thinks that people who become problem drinkers do so because they have lost the purpose of their lives. He feels that if we don't find and follow this purpose we suffer and this leads us to addiction. He suggested that my previous addiction should not be looked upon negitively but rather as a tool to get my back on my path; I now no longer need that tool so have put it down.

Wat Tamgrabok has a superb reputation amoung the Thai people (of all religions) and has helped many hopeless farangs.

I could not express enough my gratitude to Wat Tamgrabok and I would never hesitate to recommend it.

[jumnien]

Garro,

Thank you so much for this post, it moved me to read it and appreciate the power and possibility of spiritual change. We are lucky brothers with parallel paths. I am a 12-stepper, alcoholic/crack addict, for 11 years now. I met Ajahn Jumnien from Krabi miraculously in California in 1995 and my life changed forever. I visited Wat Tham Krabok and talked to Monk Gordon for a few hours back about 9 years ago; what a privilege! I am so happy life is good for you and would love to come visit you someday. Feel free to e-mail me. I live in Hua Hin but drive around Thailand a lot.

[garro]

Thank you mdeland for this post, it means a lot to know that their are others on similar paths.

Funnily enough, I have just replied to another post you made on a different thread, not realizing it was the same person.

Monk Gordon is definitely a facinating person who is not only wise but also funny.

[jumnien]

Thanks, Garro. I hope that others suffering from addiction/alcoholism contact you regarding your wonderful experience at Wat Tham Krabok or just go directly to find out for themselves that there is hope, recovery is possible.

[ThaiPauly]

Wonderful posts.

I suffer from this awful addiction as well and have considered going there myself.

At the moment I am dry...but not very comfortable with it, I am going to give AA here another go...if that fails to keep me off the sauce then I may very well head in the same direction. I belive the Temple is in the Lopburi region if I am thinking of the same one? I recall Sabajai posting a link to it..the treatment certainly does not look nice, but then I suppose its all down to the choice of life or death. I was in hospital last week..I have hepititis and have been told that if I continue to drink I will die..so I have to do something positive....but the first step is always the hardest!

How long were you there for? (I may have missed it)

Thanks once again for the post.

[garro]

Wonderful posts.

I suffer from this awful addiction as well and have considered going there myself.

At the moment I am dry...but not very comfortable with it, I am going to give AA here another go...if that fails to keep me off the sauce then I may very well head in the same direction. I belive the Temple is in the Lopburi region if I am thinking of the same one? I recall Sabajai posting a link to it..the treatment certainly does not look nice, but then I suppose its all down to the choice of life or death. I was in hospital last week..I have hepititis and have been told that if I continue to drink I will die..so I have to do something positive....but the first step is always the hardest!

How long were you there for? (I may have missed it)

Thanks once again for the post.

Hi Thaipauly, the temple is in the Lopburi/Sariburi area. I struggled for 19 years with my alcohol problem and probably tried every method to stop. Wat Thamkrabok is what has worked for me. Like you, I was able to get 'dry' but being 'dry' wasn't much fun. I did stay sober for two years once with AA also.

Leaving Wat Tamkrabok I felt like a great weight had been lifted off me. I felt free. Staying off the sauce is not a struggle for me now and I personally don't use any other support except what was provided me by Wat Tamkrabok. I have no regrets about my drinking days but feel a great relief that it is behind me.

I was very worried about my liver before attending the temple. I had two prior blood tests which showed elevated LFTs (Liver function). I had constant abdominal pain and probably went three years without having a solid shit. While at the temple they gave me a herbal remedy for this which I'm convinced helped. I had a repeat blood test a few months ago and my LFTs are normal. There were many people at the temple who had liver problems and they all received help from the monk in charge of the herbal remedies. One guy with hepatitis actually travelled to Thailand just for another few more doses of this medicine.

Nearly all the monks at the temple are ex-substance abusers so they really know what they are talking about. I only stayed for 10 days but most people stay for a month. I actually didn't want to leave in the end but needed to because of other commitments.

Another that you should know about Wat Tamkrabok is that you are only allowed one chance there. If you drink again you are not allowed to return and repeat the treatment. I am sure that if you are ready to stop then this will work for you. Not only will you be free of your addiction but you won't even hardly think about it anymore.

Wat Tamkrabok has been a 100% successful in my case and from what I have heard this been true for many others too. I have no problem believing the high success rates they claim. I really wish you all the best no matter what you decide. Please PM me if you need any advice.

By the way; there is a forum called 'We Quit Drinking' which I found useful before. I no longer use it now though. It is not affiliated to any one method of quiting alcohol so you get to see many perspectives.

http://wqd.netwarriors.org/

Paul

[Chris Lawrence]

Wonderful posts.

I suffer from this awful addiction as well and have considered going there myself.

At the moment I am dry...but not very comfortable with it, I am going to give AA here another go...if that fails to keep me off the sauce then I may very well head in the same direction. I belive the Temple is in the Lopburi region if I am thinking of the same one? I recall Sabajai posting a link to it..the treatment certainly does not look nice, but then I suppose its all down to the choice of life or death. I was in hospital last week..I have hepititis and have been told that if I continue to drink I will die..so I have to do something positive....but the first step is always the hardest!

How long were you there for? (I may have missed it)

Thanks once again for the post.

Hi ThaiPauly,

Sorry to hear your current situation.

I have worked in rehabilation services for a few years. The first 90 days appears to be a hard struggle then there seems to be a good period for about 6-9 months. Not the same for all but what I did see was somewhat common. Keep some people around you that are positive with the outcome you want. Keep yourself occupied. If you want to drink, drink water; you may be thirsty.

I see you mention Hepatitis. A lot of people from the 60' 70 and early 80's found that they were testing positive to Hep C. These people also had a past or history using IV drugs. If this is the Hep you have, yes I agree it would be wise to stop the drink. Alcohol causes havoc to the function of the liver but the added strain of an illness in the liver may develop other illnesses.

Don't know to much about this suggested rehab in Thailand. You can only but try I suppose? In the meantime AA can offer some support. I remember one young man hanging with people from a 12 step fellowship, from the day he got up until it was time to go to sleep. Did this for about 3-4 months. Stayed clean for over 10 years, got married, went back to study and got a career. I believe he is still doing OK. Most people in the 12 step fellowship won't mind your company, because they too were once in your position. They generally have a good hand out. If you don't find the hand out move onto the next person. You will find someone.

Good luck, you can do it.

[Chris Lawrence]

[

Another that you should know about Wat Tamkrabok is that you are only allowed one chance there. If you drink again you are not allowed to return and repeat the treatment. I am sure that if you are ready to stop then this will work for you. Not only will you be free of your addiction but you won't even hardly think about it anymore.

It bit strange? For an alcoholic or addict the most natural thing is to use a substance. If I did this in my work would not have too many clients; many people need many goes at this. Not many got it first go or second or third etc. (This is just my own personal experience). We always had the door open because we did not know when a person was ready to make the commitment to stop.

Sometimes the attitude of a one stop policy can reinforce in a persons mind that they have failed completly. I have also seen this process end the persons drinking problem permanently.

The fact is that this is an insidious dis-ease, that takes control of you. This temple may be great; I would also like to hear from people who have had different experinces from the service. I just know if I had said to some people, hear you need to get your plane fare and spending money together we are going to a rehab in Thailand, I would be the only person at the airport going to board the plane. The tickets and spending money would not make it past the first bar or dealer.

I am not against this temple, as it sounds as it does great work, I was just hoping to hear another perspective.

[benw]

re: Chris' comment about their "no repeats" policy.

Is that correct about the Wat T. program? That you're only allowed one chance, and that's it? I hadn't heard that before.

[jumnien]

I like that "one shot" idea. Wat Tham Krabok is a sacred place with a sacred solution. Choose a path and follow it, but don't waste their time using it as a detox so you can get well and then start using again. I worked for two years at a treatment center in California. We allowed people 3 times to go thru the 28 day program. After that we felt like we would just be taking people's money and they would be taking a place for someone else who might be ready for recovery. There were lots of other places people could go. If people want a modality with an endless open door policy there are 12-step programs everywhere.

[garro]

re: Chris' comment about their "no repeats" policy.

Is that correct about the Wat T. program? That you're only allowed one chance, and that's it? I hadn't heard that before.

Yes, you are only allowed to go once.

This is due to the seriousness in which the satja (Vow) is taken. You are not allowed to take a vow, break it, then make it again. At Wat Tamkrabok when you make this solemn vow you need to be prepared to keep it for the rest of your life (if you decide to quit for the rest of your life).

Many Thais believe that if they break the vow terrible things will happen to them but if they keep it fantastic things will happen.

As mdeland states, there are plenty of places that have a revolving door policy when you can go for a break from alcohol.

[benw]

re: Chris' comment about their "no repeats" policy.

Is that correct about the Wat T. program? That you're only allowed one chance, and that's it? I hadn't heard that before.

Yes, you are only allowed to go once.

This is due to the seriousness in which the satja (Vow) is taken. You are not allowed to take a vow, break it, then make it again. At Wat Tamkrabok when you make this solemn vow you need to be prepared to keep it for the rest of your life (if you decide to quit for the rest of your life).

Many Thais believe that if they break the vow terrible things will happen to them but if they keep it fantastic things will happen.

As mdeland states, there are plenty of places that have a revolving door policy when you can go for a break from alcohol.

Thanks.

I can see the spiritual basis for their policy. Unfortunately, addiction is a relapsing and remitting disorder. The overwhelming majority of people of who ultimately quit and stay sober, clean, or change whatever behavior for the rest of their lives go through more than one attempt before they are successful (and a simple majority appear to go through multiple attempts). So, for some people who go to Wat T., this time isn't going to be >the< time. Not because they're bad people, but because beating addiction is hard and requires determination and persistence.

Unlike California, Thailand doesn't have dozens of residential treatment programs for farang who want to beat their addiction (In the US, the "three tries" rule makes sense- I worked in a residential program with the same policy).

Aside from Wat T., does anyone of any residential, substance abuse treatment programs here in Thailand that foreigners can benefit from? (I'm already familiar with a number of the Thai programs, such as BMA's past Onnut, and I wouldn't recommend them for foreigners)

[garro]

re: Chris' comment about their "no repeats" policy.

Is that correct about the Wat T. program? That you're only allowed one chance, and that's it? I hadn't heard that before.

Yes, you are only allowed to go once.

This is due to the seriousness in which the satja (Vow) is taken. You are not allowed to take a vow, break it, then make it again. At Wat Tamkrabok when you make this solemn vow you need to be prepared to keep it for the rest of your life (if you decide to quit for the rest of your life).

Many Thais believe that if they break the vow terrible things will happen to them but if they keep it fantastic things will happen.

As mdeland states, there are plenty of places that have a revolving door policy when you can go for a break from alcohol.

Thanks.

I can see the spiritual basis for their policy. Unfortunately, addiction is a relapsing and remitting disorder. The overwhelming majority of people of who ultimately quit and stay sober, clean, or change whatever behavior for the rest of their lives go through more than one attempt before they are successful (and a simple majority appear to go through multiple attempts). So, for some people who go to Wat T., this time isn't going to be >the< time. Not because they're bad people, but because beating addiction is hard and requires determination and persistence.

Unlike California, Thailand doesn't have dozens of residential treatment programs for farang who want to beat their addiction (In the US, the "three tries" rule makes sense- I worked in a residential program with the same policy).

Aside from Wat T., does anyone of any residential, substance abuse treatment programs here in Thailand that foreigners can benefit from? (I'm already familiar with a number of the Thai programs, such as BMA's past Onnut, and I wouldn't recommend them for foreigners)

I would say that many of the people who have gone to Wat Tamkrabok have made many previous attempts to stop. I do not however believe that people need to slip or relapse before becoming sober for good.

I feel a bit uncomfortable with your claim that addiction is a relapsing and remitting disorder. This sort of message certainly never helped me in the past. The only people who benefit from this kind of approach are those working in the addiction business where relapse means more money. Relapse is not a normal part of recovery in my opinion.

I personally got better when I admitted that I wasn't an alcoholic and stopped being a victim. This term had allowed me to blame all my problems on a 'disease' and use it is an excuse for unexcusable behaviour. I now take responsibility for my own life and actions.

I do have great respect for AA and I understand that they use the disease model with good results. It just isn't for me as I am no longer an 'alcoholic' but just someone who doesn't drink.

This is my own personal opinion and not meant to represent that of Wat Tamkrabok. I also do not wish to insult those who view themselves as alcoholics. This is just my view.

Edited March 6, 2007 by garro

[jumnien]

Your truth is in the pudding, so to speak. You are clean and sober and actively helping others to acheive sobriety. For an ex-problem drinker, it doesn't get any better than that. Your story is inspirational, keep on the path!

[Chris Lawrence]

Like mdeland I have worked in 28 day program, Cognative Behavioural Thereapy program, needle exchange program and long term recovery program.

In Australia I have also seen the work of the high fee programs; they seem to also refer to 12 step programs in this country as a cheaper form of after care. I saw one service charge $7000 for herion withdrawals and $9500 for methadone withdrawals. The parents guarrenteed the payment and acted as nurse, and minder to their children during the course of treatment. I believe that these people felt this was the only way out for there children. There was high promotion of this as a high sustainable cure that was in great success from Isreal. I aslo saw the doctor and his two counselors atarting to also refer to 12 step programs. The other thing with this treatment was that the client could still smoke dope and use speed. They just would not get an effect from the herion or methadone. When you look into the eyes of a person who is holding their child going thru rapid detox, not saying antthing esle but 'there ok now', knowing only to well that due to their childs age this may be the beging of a long road, all I could do was smile and say yes. Their tears in their eyes prevented me to say to much more as I saw the suffering that they were going thru.

All I know from my experience is to question the process. Try to deliver back a service that does not take advantage people, And give hope.

The services I have been involved in were one's where if you didn't have the money you would still be treated. However the fees that were charged were in proportion to the clients social security payment. That is a proportion of this was charged as rent. The Govt. paid a funding contribution to the services. Running a service you also had to find many ways of trying to get the funding dollar.

The point that I am making is not all services are driven by how much you can make out of the 'drunk or addict'; this was uasually zero, particulary the client's I dealt with. What they did need was compasion and understanding. They needed to know what love was again. There was that need to have an open door policy but attempt to slow the 'revolving door syndrome' that I think mdeland is aluding too.

The other point is that yes this temple may be a very holy place, with a strong spiritual feel too it; but it may have some restrictions. Just be aware of what they are. They do not mean that if you don't get it you have failed.

I have seen a few people that have failed certian programs only to have that resolve to bounce back a few months or even years latter having found it at another service. All services have a part to play in a persons journey, what we must not loose sight of it is their journey not ours. I am a realist in how people use or abuse what is on offer but there are ways of making people accountable and then pointing this out in a way that is not condercending or in taking the moral high ground.

Wat Tamkrabok is an option in Thailand. But is an option of many. I think it is great to hear how these places work so people on this forum may have the ability to choose if needed a method to deal with a problem.

[garro]

Just an update. It is now one year since I entered Wat Thamkrabok and what a wonderful sober year it has been. This time last year I was such a different person and when I entered the temple it really was my last hope. I was convinced I was about to die at 36 because my health was deteriorating so much, I had constant abdominal pain and had been told that my LFTs were elevated. I also vomitted every time I drank but couldn't stop.

What a difference a year makes. I rarely ever think of alcohol and when I do I wonder what the attraction ever was, it is like it was a different person. I don't regret my years of alcohol addiction because it got me to where I am today. I love my life and wouldn't change a thing but still it gets better all the time.

I remain very grateful to Wat Thamkrabok and would never hesitate to recommend it to anyone struggling with an addiction. Wat Thamkrabok worked for me when nothing else would. It really is a magical place.

Edited June 27, 2007 by garro

[jumnien]

Congratulations on your one year of happy sobriety! There is no better measure of success than a personal story of hope like your own. Thank you so much for sharing your recovery and inspiring others in the process. May all beings be free from addiction. I've visited Wat Tham Krabok and talked to Monk Gordon and was very impressed myself.

[garro]

Thank you Mdeland

[Neeranam]

Congratulations Garro - truly awesome!

[ThaiPauly]

I'll second that.

What an amazing turn around in your life

Thanks for the help you have given to me as well.

I have not plucked up the courage to go yet

But I am 5 days without a drink now...if I fail this time then I will need help

Posting on these theads certainly helps to keep my resolve.

[garro]

I'll second that.

What an amazing turn around in your life

Thanks for the help you have given to me as well.

I have not plucked up the courage to go yet

But I am 5 days without a drink now...if I fail this time then I will need help

Posting on these theads certainly helps to keep my resolve.

It is obvious from the way that you keep on trying to get back on track that you will soon make. I hope it is this time. You deserve better. Living as a drunk is a dog's life.

[garro]

I hope that this doesn't sound like I am becoming an ego maniac but I have written a blog about my experiences at Wat Thamkrabok and the reasons why I ended up there. It has actually become a bit long at this stage but somebody might be able to get some use out of it. I know a few people have sent a pm to me asking for information so maybe this will help. Writing it is certainly helping me so if it could help somebody else that would be a bonus.

Anyway it is in the blog section of this site.

Just to reassure everyone, I have not developed 'dellusions of grandeur' and I don't see myself as the next Stephen King.

[Neeranam]

Garro - where can we see your blog?

[garro]

Hi neeranam, here is the link;

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?au...blogid=617&

[garro]

I have found a nice video on youtube about my favorite place in the world Wat Thamkrabok. It follows the journey of Tim Arnold a UK singer/songwriter an ex-patient ot the temple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhNFD-jb85o

There is also this new website about music made be ex-patients;

http://thamkrabokmusic.com/

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Just an update. It is now one year since I entered Wat Thamkrabok and what a wonderful sober year it has been. This time last year I was such a different person and when I entered the temple it really was my last hope. I was convinced I was about to die at 36 because my health was deteriorating so much, I had constant abdominal pain and had been told that my LFTs were elevated. I also vomitted every time I drank but couldn't stop.

What a difference a year makes. I rarely ever think of alcohol and when I do I wonder what the attraction ever was, it is like it was a different person. I don't regret my years of alcohol addiction because it got me to where I am today. I love my life and wouldn't change a thing but still it gets better all the time.

I remain very grateful to Wat Thamkrabok and would never hesitate to recommend it to anyone struggling with an addiction. Wat Thamkrabok worked for me when nothing else would. It really is a magical place.

Good upon you

[sabaijai]

I have found a nice video on youtube about my favorite place in the world Wat Thamkrabok. It follows the journey of Tim Arnold a UK singer/songwriter an ex-patient ot the temple.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhNFD-jb85o

There is also this new website about music made be ex-patients;

http://thamkrabokmusic.com/

Inspiring.

[garro]

Here is another Wat Thamkrabok video I found on youtube.

[borracho]

I just finished up a two week stint at Wat Thamkrabok.

I'm happy I ran into this thread which jogged me into getting a grip on my life and stop drinking and drugging.

The monastery is a great place for it. Highly recommended for those serious about making a life change.

I guess I'll have to change my nickname now.

Thanks Garro.

[garro]

I just finished up a two week stint at Wat Thamkrabok.

I'm happy I ran into this thread which jogged me into getting a grip on my life and stop drinking and drugging.

The monastery is a great place for it. Highly recommended for those serious about making a life change.

I guess I'll have to change my nickname now.

Thanks Garro.

Great news.

I am so happy to hear that it helped you.

I wish you all the best.

Remember that if you keep your satja vow, great things will enter your life.

I know for a 100% fact that this is true.

I am so amazed by the wonderful things that have entered my life since making my satja vow.