Chiang Rai: Search teams ‘making headway’

[canuckamuck]

10 minutes ago, greenchair said:

But I saw all those big pumps. 

 

It's really hard to know how much water is retained in the larger chambers and unknown recesses. But I think if the weather cooperates, they will eventually start winning against the water.

[Artisi]

8 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Its a pathetic sight to see them practicing how to carry a stretcher into a helicopter. Just proves how useless and unprepared some of them are.

About as pathetic as your useless comment. 

[KiwiKiwi]

11 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It's really hard to know how much water is retained in the larger chambers and unknown recesses. But I think if the weather cooperates, they will eventually start winning against the water.

 

As I understand it the EL press is saying heavy rain again tomorrow, so making hay would seem to be important.

[Artisi]

22 minutes ago, greenchair said:

But I saw all those big pumps. 

 

I can show you pictures of even bigger pumps, much much bigger - but fairly useless if you can't get them to an effective location. 

47 minutes ago, greenchair said:

Oops, there's some news. 

I'm just really not understanding why they haven't made this pattaya beach. 

You really must have a problem comprehending reality

[Jonathan Fairfield]

Footballers not yet found, says governor in dispelling rumours

 

File photo : Chiang Rai Governor Narongsak

 

Chiang Rai Governor Narongsak Osottanakorn on Sunday denied rumours that the rescue team have found the missing 12 members and their assistant coach of Mu Pa Academy FC believed to be trapped inside Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai’s Mae Sai district since June 23.

Rumours have it that the governor wished to keep the news confidential and will reveal it when evacuations of team members to hospitals begin.

 

He said that he will certainly hold a press conference right away if the missing group is found. 

 

The rumours spread as SEAL teams are closing in on a location that is connected to Pattaya Beach where the missing team members are believed to have taken shelter.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30349058

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2018-07-01

[Artisi]

4 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

El zilcho. Which is why it is irresponsible  to risk other lives.  Whoever's in charge needs to  make the announcement it's over,  and the task is to  simply attempt to recover bodies.

It's a real shame you and Jenny 2017 aren't part of the school party, I'm sure you would both concur that the search should be terminated and then wait out the wet session before entering the cave system to locate your miserable bones. 

Certainly the best solution. 

[josephbloggs]

6 minutes ago, Artisi said:

It's a real shame you and Jenny 2017 aren't part of the school party, I'm sure you would both concur that the search should be terminated and then wait out the wet session before entering the cave system to locate your miserable bones. 

Certainly the best solution. 

I have a feeling both of them and Kiwi Kiwi are the same person.  All three have exactly the same miserable, condescending, defeatist attitudes.

[KiwiKiwi]

 

Thailand and it's interminable rumours and denials of rumours... it just goes on and on.

 

 

[KiwiKiwi]

13 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I have a feeling both of them and Kiwi Kiwi are the same person.  All three have exactly the same miserable, condescending, defeatist attitudes.

 

You're wrong (of course) but then you usually are. Or are you accusing me of having multiple accounts?

 

I'm pretty sure that to accuse me of something demonstrably false would be against forum rules... perhaps even libellous. I'm sure the management would have a view on that.

Edited July 1, 2018 by KiwiKiwi

[Artisi]

3 minutes ago, josephbloggs said:

I have a feeling both of them and Kiwi Kiwi are the same person.  All three have exactly the same miserable, condescending, defeatist attitudes.

Maybe members of the one family. 

[kevvy]

5 hours ago, PhuketSarah said:

• Condolences to the families. These boys are dead and likely expired  within the first day or two. Exposure,  drowning,  lack of oxygen. Not a chance they are alive. This is now a recovery operation. 

well , imagine the world full of people like you ...

Obsessively , you were not born when the Chilean mines collapse. 33 men were trapped 700 meters  below ground who survived  69 days. All 33 men were rescued and brought to the surface  in 2010 over a period of almost 24 hours.

Edited July 1, 2018 by kevvy

[nausea]

Nil Desperandum.

[InfinityandBeyond]

56 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

It's really hard to know how much water is retained in the larger chambers and unknown recesses. But I think if the weather cooperates, they will eventually start winning against the water.

I am not a geologist, but if I remember my lessons correctly most (if not all) caves are/were sub-terranean water courses. I.e. natural caves exist because of water permeating through fissures in the rock and slowly eroding away the rock over millenia.  

That being said, it appears from warning signs near the cave that this is an extant water course for around half the year. 

From an infographic in NYT (?- will try to find it), this cave system appears to be a natural "overflow valve" for surrounding watersheds to the north, south and west. (Again, I may be wrong-working from memory). 

In any case, Mrs. Beyond told me today that on Thai social media they were discussing one of the British spelunkers that suggested that for pumping/draining to be effective, inflows of water into the cave system need to be halted or significantly curbed. 

Which totally makes sense to me. 

I think others on this thread or another have suggested the same. 

I recognize that is impossible to seal fissures in the mountain face that is allowing small amounts of water to seep through, but an attempt at stemming water flow into the cave system from major surrounding water sources could help with the drainage. Otherwise the pumps are just simply relocating the water via the caves and possibly hampering efforts. 

[tukkytuktuk]

This latest news report pretty much sums up today.

Frustratingly close but no cigar.

 

 

[InfinityandBeyond]

20 minutes ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

I am not a geologist, but if I remember my lessons correctly most (if not all) caves are/were sub-terranean water courses. I.e. natural caves exist because of water permeating through fissures in the rock and slowly eroding away the rock over millenia.  

That being said, it appears from warning signs near the cave that this is an extant water course for around half the year. 

From an infographic in NYT (?- will try to find it), this cave system appears to be a natural "overflow valve" for surrounding watersheds to the north, south and west. (Again, I may be wrong-working from memory). 

In any case, Mrs. Beyond told me today that on Thai social media they were discussing one of the British spelunkers that suggested that for pumping/draining to be effective, inflows of water into the cave system need to be halted or significantly curbed. 

Which totally makes sense to me. 

I think others on this thread or another have suggested the same. 

I recognize that is impossible to seal fissures in the mountain face that is allowing small amounts of water to seep through, but an attempt at stemming water flow into the cave system from major surrounding water sources could help with the drainage. Otherwise the pumps are just simply relocating the water via the caves and possibly hampering efforts. 

Not sure of the compass orientation, but it appears water is entering the system from the right (according to the infographic). 

[chickenslegs]

22 minutes ago, InfinityandBeyond said:

I am not a geologist, but if I remember my lessons correctly most (if not all) caves are/were sub-terranean water courses. I.e. natural caves exist because of water permeating through fissures in the rock and slowly eroding away the rock over millenia.  

That being said, it appears from warning signs near the cave that this is an extant water course for around half the year. 

From an infographic in NYT (?- will try to find it), this cave system appears to be a natural "overflow valve" for surrounding watersheds to the north, south and west. (Again, I may be wrong-working from memory). 

In any case, Mrs. Beyond told me today that on Thai social media they were discussing one of the British spelunkers that suggested that for pumping/draining to be effective, inflows of water into the cave system need to be halted or significantly curbed. 

Which totally makes sense to me. 

I think others on this thread or another have suggested the same. 

I recognize that is impossible to seal fissures in the mountain face that is allowing small amounts of water to seep through, but an attempt at stemming water flow into the cave system from major surrounding water sources could help with the drainage. Otherwise the pumps are just simply relocating the water via the caves and possibly hampering efforts. 

I am certain that I read a press release that teams are already working to divert water flow away from the caves.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1045675-thailand-live-sunday-1-jul-2018/?do=findComment&comment=13129995

[InfinityandBeyond]

1 minute ago, chickenslegs said:

I am certain that I read a press release that teams are already working to divert water flow away from the caves.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1045675-thailand-live-sunday-1-jul-2018/?do=findComment&comment=13129995

Ok. Thanks.

[Enoon]

 

How long would they be able to survive if they had spent the entire time (except for day 1) up to their necks in water?

 

That would seem to be the worst case which might offer some chance of survival.

 

 

 

 

[janclaes47]

3 hours ago, bannork said:

Let me take a guess. To avoid detection by soldiers , helicopters and villagers. No. that's far too simple.

Much more likely they have read 'The Smugglers' Caves' by Enid Blyton and thought they would give it a go themselves.

I have seen a post, in this thread or one of the others, that officials admitted that the cave is/was used by drug traffickers.

 

I can imagine that it's only useful for traffickers of any kind if the entrance and exit are not in the same location.

[bannork]

8 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

I have seen a post, in this thread or one of the others, that officials admitted that the cave is/was used by drug traffickers.

 

I can imagine that it's only useful for traffickers of any kind if the entrance and exit are not in the same location.

Not necessarily. Could be used for storage whilst waiting for pick up.

[GBW]

43 minutes ago, bannork said:

Not necessarily. Could be used for storage whilst waiting for pick up.

Why would 'traffickers' , use a known public accessible area to stow their bads?    

[bannork]

56 minutes ago, GBW said:

Why would 'traffickers' , use a known public accessible area to stow their bads?    

Good point. But by being public it's not in anyone 's house, and there are probably thousands of nooks and crannies where it could be stashed.

[lamyai3]

6 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

How long would they be able to survive if they had spent the entire time (except for day 1) up to their necks in water?

 

That would seem to be the worst case which might offer some chance of survival.

 

 

 

 

Not long, physical exhaustion would take over. But they knew the cave system and where they needed to retreat to, so it's reasonable to assume they're stuck inside in a safe area, but have been unable to get past the narrower flooded sections and exit the cave. 

[JAZZDOG]

28 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Not long, physical exhaustion would take over. But they knew the cave system and where they needed to retreat to, so it's reasonable to assume they're stuck inside in a safe area, but have been unable to get past the narrower flooded sections and exit the cave. 

I agree it is very possible they made it to higher ground, There are other things working in their favor. It is fairly warm and as a group they can huddle and reserve heat. They have fast flowing water, might make them sick but survivable. Food will not be a critical issue for at least a month. They have their coach they respect to keep them focused. I am sure he feels responsible and will give all to see his team gets safely through this. By all accounts the divers made up of Aussies and Seals made good progress late Sunday. I intend to keep the positive energy that those directly involved have shown. I don't see a recovery stage anytime soon coming from those involved with this rescue. They seem to have only one mindset.

[lvr181]

1 hour ago, lamyai3 said:

Not long, physical exhaustion would take over. But they knew the cave system and where they needed to retreat to, so it's reasonable to assume they're stuck inside in a safe area, but have been unable to get past the narrower flooded sections and exit the cave. 

"If" that is the case then it's going to be one hell of a tough job to get them out, depending on their physical/mental condition. 

[lamyai3]

12 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

"If" that is the case then it's going to be one hell of a tough job to get them out, depending on their physical/mental condition. 

Of course it depends on the water levels and several other factors. But the challenge is to find them alive and safe... once they do they will also be able to provide supplies, not to mention an enormous boost in morale. Given also that the rescue teams are not moving any further into the caves than they can safely retreat, if they can locate them, they can also get them out. 

[peperobi]

Is time to send away all that cars, many some peoples will leave definitely.

[lvr181]

Navy SEALs making all-out efforts to reach Cave's Pattaya Beach

Rescue operations are going ahead at full steam in the Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai province in the hope of saving all 13 members of a local football club who are believed to be stranded inside since June 23.

The Royal Thai Navy’s SEALs are now trying to dive through 800-metre-wide body of water to get closer to the “Pattaya Beach” part of the cave. 

 

After diving through the waters, the SEALs will reach an intersection. From there, the team will have to go about 1.3 kilometres to reach the Pattaya Beach zone.

 

“There have been many obstacles inside the cave and the water level did not reduce as much as we expected. We are doing our best to overcome them all,” Naval Special Warfare Command chief Rear Admiral Apakorn Yukongkaew said on Sunday.

 

Six policemen from Australia who are highly skilled in cave diving have already reached the cave.

 

From The Nation Newspaper. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30349035

 

My question is what cave have the Australians reached or does the reporter mean they have arrived?

Edited July 2, 2018 by lvr181
Additional wording

[Essaybloke]

On 7/1/2018 at 8:12 AM, yrag said:

Today is the day located ....Sunday at latest.....God Speed

As you can see, people are doing it. Let's support them all we can. Little point sitting around waiting for supernatural intervention! 

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, lvr181 said:

Navy SEALs making all-out efforts to reach Cave's Pattaya Beach

Rescue operations are going ahead at full steam in the Tham Luang cave in Chiang Rai province in the hope of saving all 13 members of a local football club who are believed to be stranded inside since June 23.

The Royal Thai Navy’s SEALs are now trying to dive through 800-metre-wide body of water to get closer to the “Pattaya Beach” part of the cave. 

 

After diving through the waters, the SEALs will reach an intersection. From there, the team will have to go about 1.3 kilometres to reach the Pattaya Beach zone.

 

“There have been many obstacles inside the cave and the water level did not reduce as much as we expected. We are doing our best to overcome them all,” Naval Special Warfare Command chief Rear Admiral Apakorn Yukongkaew said on Sunday.

 

Six policemen from Australia who are highly skilled in cave diving have already reached the cave.

 

From The Nation Newspaper. http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30349035

 

My question is what cave have the Australians reached or does the reporter mean they have arrived?

Another report on Yahoo stated the Aussies were in the water with Seals late Sunday heading for Pattaya Beach. Report is for little rain for two more days. You would think we might hear something late today.