All Aussie Related Stuff (excluding the old age pension)

[stud858]

23 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

That is also the way I interpret what he is saying it, however I think the only way you could do it, is to say, hey Mr Taxman, I have been on an extended overseas holiday, here is my passport, I haven't stayed at any places too long and you will see that by the stamps in my passport, I haven't worked, it was a holiday, so I haven't really had an abode of sorts apart from my place here in Australia, and the rent from the property helped me survive while I was on my extended holiday/trip.

You need to interpret more than one post of mine.

But your example is a fair one and there is nothing on it suggesting there would be a loss of tax residemcy going by the ATO rules. 

[4MyEgo]

2 minutes ago, stud858 said:

You need to interpret more than one post of mine.

But your example is a fair one and there is nothing on it suggesting there would be a loss of tax residemcy going by the ATO rules. 

Agreed, the reason I didn't mention any loss of tax residency is that it would at the ATO's discretion, based on your personal circumstances, remember, not cut and dry.

[stud858]

24 minutes ago, Will27 said:

So you think you're a resident because you haven't got Thai residency and you've got a house

with a pooch buried in the backyard?

 

Gee, I'm glad you cleared that up for the rest of us Aussies here.

 

Might've as well close the topic?

 

Along with what you say there has to be a reason to tag me as a non tax resident.  Not just deny me tax residemcy.  by denying me tax residemcy you automatically set me as a non tax resident. So what would the reason be?  

[Will27]

13 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Yes totally possible. Are you saying it's not possible? But that's not my argument anyway.

Some are saying that's not possible  AT ALL if you are out of Australia and in Thailand for the year.  . I've listed through the rules and concerns  in previous posts.  You may need to go back and re read to get my complete point of view. It's not correct or fair to say that is my stance from a single post. My stance involves,  types of visas, personal circumstances,  etc. 

 

When I'm shown the ATO advice on the matter I can agree with you about being out of the country for a year will void my tax residency status without other circumstance. 

 

 

I agree everyone has slightly different circumstances, but the ATO doesn't care about your visa

or residency status in Thailand. That type of stuff doesn't concern them.

 

I don't know your circumstances on how long you stay in Thailand per year and how often

you return etc. All I'm saying, is that if you think having a house in Australia means you're 

a resident is pretty much incorrect.

[Will27]

7 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Along with what you say there has to be a reason to tag me as a non tax resident.  Not just deny me tax residemcy.  by denying me tax residemcy you automatically set me as a non tax resident. So what would the reason be?  

Sorry, I've no idea what that means.

 

We obviously have a different interpretation of the residency requirements.

[stud858]

13 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I agree everyone has slightly different circumstances, but the ATO doesn't care about your visa

or residency status in Thailand. That type of stuff doesn't concern them.

 

I don't know your circumstances on how long you stay in Thailand per year and how often

you return etc. All I'm saying, is that if you think having a house in Australia means you're 

a resident is pretty much incorrect.

No.  That's not what I'm saying. It's a small and insignificant part of what I'm saying. 

I'm trying to clear up the matter that historical time away from your Australian address, even if it is a lot, solely, has nothing to do with why you would be denied or given tax residency or non tax residency.*

 

*183 day rule excepted.  An obvious time ruling for people who want to claim tax residency such as people visiting Australia. 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by stud858

[stud858]

4 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Sorry, I've no idea what that means.

 

We obviously have a different interpretation of the residency requirements.

Let me answer the question how I think you would.  I may be wrong but no harm intended. No need to interpret my question. 

You are suggesting the reason I would be tagged a non resident is because I am out of the country for a long time in spite of my announcing my aussie abode location and intent to return.

Is that correct? 

[stud858]

39 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I agree everyone has slightly different circumstances, but the ATO doesn't care about your visa

or residency status in Thailand. That type of stuff doesn't concern them.

 

I don't know your circumstances on how long you stay in Thailand per year and how often

you return etc. All I'm saying, is that if you think having a house in Australia means you're 

a resident is pretty much incorrect.

Maybe they would use visa type if there was a breakdown in communication about what is agreed upon as your permanent abode. They would use an immigrant visa to their advantage if they wanted to prove you a non tax resident. 

And personally I would want to show a temporary visa to show my stay is temporary.

 

We're getting to near the end guys.  We have spread our wisdom. We should move on as Wil suggests 

 

I'd just like to conclude on 3 very important points.

Get the meanings of "Usual" and " "usually at" Correct in your mind.

 

You don't have to regard yourself as "permanently retired to another country" because you have a temporary visa based on retirement with extensions and being over the age of 50,

 

And finally call the ATO to conform and confirm.

 

 

Edited August 13, 2018 by stud858

[sceadugenga]

I certainly think it's been well thrashed out and a move to less complex issues would be beneficial.

 

[Will27]

38 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Let me answer the question how I think you would.  I may be wrong but no harm intended. No need to interpret my question. 

You are suggesting the reason I would be tagged a non resident is because I am out of the country for a long time in spite of my announcing my aussie abode location and intent to return.

Is that correct? 

Like I said, I don't know how long you've been away from Australia for or how often you've been back.

 

But, for example, if you've been pretty much staying in Thailand for, let's say 11 months of the

year for 3 or 4 years, I reckon if you were audited, you would be assessed as a non-resident.

 

Just having a house in Australia and an "intent" to return wouldn't cut it in my opinion.

[stud858]

11 minutes ago, Will27 said:

Like I said, I don't know how long you've been away from Australia for or how often you've been back.

 

But, for example, if you've been pretty much staying in Thailand for, let's say 11 months of the

year for 3 or 4 years, I reckon if you were audited, you would be assessed as a non-resident.

 

Just having a house in Australia and an "intent" to return wouldn't cut it in my opinion.

Haha. You were close.  It's 8 months in the year.  

 

I'm heading back in a month. 

 

Anybody been taking back more than two packets of ciggies. Last time I took 2 and an open personal pack. 

Officer said ok.  I know one chap who risks it and takes more.

 

[sceadugenga]

Beware the ever vigilant nose of the tobacco dog.....

[Lacessit]

I'm a bit confused over the tax thing, please advise if I have it correct:

 

1/ Considered as a resident in Australia, I get a part age pension. My taxable income is the AP plus earnings on investments in Australia. I am taxed with the Senior Citizen's tax offset and also get franking credits.

 

2/ Considered as a non-resident, I still get a part age pension. I am not taxed on the AP;  however, I am taxed at 32.5 cents on the dollar and don't get any franking credits on any Australian investment income.

 

If I am considered non-resident, why would I want to be investing in Australian businesses?

[ELVIS123456]

Three things I think might be beneficial regarding being a resident for tax purposes:

 

1.  The rules were not written for someone retiring and living overseas for all/part of any taxataion year. They were written for people who are working and earning (taxable) income.  If you look at all the examples on the ATO web site previously mentioned, they are for peope who are working.  But the ATO uses those 'rules' for people who are overseas retired/visiting and are generating income from/in Australia.  That is why they are inconsistent and appear very ad-hoc.

 

2.  You can stay overseas in the same location for up to 2 years (not working), as long as you can show ties to Australia and show that is your normal home, and that you will be returning to it, and the ATO will easily accept that you are a tax resident (if that is what you want). However, after 2 years absence and staying at the same place the ATO 'default' is that you have become a non-resident.  However, even given that, if you regularly return and as above, can show it is your home and you have ties and commitment and will be returning, and you dont stay at the same location for more than 2 years, you can easily get up to 5 years being mainly overseas (as long as not working) and still be a tax resident - but it is case by case.  After 5 years it becomes hard to remain a tax resident but it can be done.  When researching all this years ago I do recall one bloke who did it for over 5 years and remained a tax resident, because he maintained his premises and his ties (family friends etc), and never rented out his home (friends family stayed there), he returned 1-2 times each year, and he never stayed anywhere for more than two years at a time (and only ever rented).  He did that to maintain the tax free threshold as he was generating income in Australia that was taxable.   I was going to take that path until I decided it was easier for a lot of reasons, for the wife to migrate to Aust and get residency/citizenship/passport/pension etc. and for me to be living here (am in Aus now) for several years before I was OAP eligible, and that we always maintain a home is Australia, and we stay at her family's 'holiday' home in Thailand (that we buy) when we visit in the future for 6-24 months at a time.

 

3.  CLink and Immigration do not use the same rules for residency.  CLink is a lot 'harder' and will look to remove residency very quickly, but Immigration keeps your residency forever (unless you renounce it etc.).

 

[4MyEgo]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

I'm a bit confused over the tax thing, please advise if I have it correct:

 

1/ Considered as a resident in Australia, I get a part age pension. My taxable income is the AP plus earnings on investments in Australia. I am taxed with the Senior Citizen's tax offset and also get franking credits.

 

2/ Considered as a non-resident, I still get a part age pension. I am not taxed on the AP;  however, I am taxed at 32.5 cents on the dollar and don't get any franking credits on any Australian investment income.

 

If I am considered non-resident, why would I want to be investing in Australian businesses?

The links below should assist:

 

This one is for Australian Residents: https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/investing/in-detail/investing-in-shares/refunding-franking-credits---individuals/

 

This one is for Non Residents: https://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=13

 

To answer your last question, from my understanding of the advice on the ATO website, as a non resident if you buy shares in the Australian share market, you do not pay tax on fully franked shares, i.e. shares that have already have had the tax taken out when you are paid your dividend, and there is no capital gains tax payable as a non resident who holds shares in Australia, however as an Australian Resident there is tax payable on any gains.

 

Hope the above assisted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4MyEgo]

20 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Three things I think might be beneficial regarding being a resident for tax purposes:

 

1.  The rules were not written for someone retiring and living overseas for all/part of any taxataion year. They were written for people who are working and earning (taxable) income.  If you look at all the examples on the ATO web site previously mentioned, they are for peope who are working.  But the ATO uses those 'rules' for people who are overseas retired/visiting and are generating income from/in Australia.  That is why they are inconsistent and appear very ad-hoc.

 

2.  You can stay overseas in the same location for up to 2 years (not working), as long as you can show ties to Australia and show that is your normal home, and that you will be returning to it, and the ATO will easily accept that you are a tax resident (if that is what you want). However, after 2 years absence and staying at the same place the ATO 'default' is that you have become a non-resident.  However, even given that, if you regularly return and as above, can show it is your home and you have ties and commitment and will be returning, and you dont stay at the same location for more than 2 years, you can easily get up to 5 years being mainly overseas (as long as not working) and still be a tax resident - but it is case by case.  After 5 years it becomes hard to remain a tax resident but it can be done.  When researching all this years ago I do recall one bloke who did it for over 5 years and remained a tax resident, because he maintained his premises and his ties (family friends etc), and never rented out his home (friends family stayed there), he returned 1-2 times each year, and he never stayed anywhere for more than two years at a time (and only ever rented).  He did that to maintain the tax free threshold as he was generating income in Australia that was taxable.   I was going to take that path until I decided it was easier for a lot of reasons, for the wife to migrate to Aust and get residency/citizenship/passport/pension etc. and for me to be living here (am in Aus now) for several years before I was OAP eligible, and that we always maintain a home is Australia, and we stay at her family's 'holiday' home in Thailand (that we buy) when we visit in the future for 6-24 months at a time.

 

3.  CLink and Immigration do not use the same rules for residency.  CLink is a lot 'harder' and will look to remove residency very quickly, but Immigration keeps your residency forever (unless you renounce it etc.).

 

Onya Elvis, more or less what I said in an earlier reply, but yours is more detailed.

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, 4MyEgo said:

The links below should assist:

 

This one is for Australian Residents: https://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/investing/in-detail/investing-in-shares/refunding-franking-credits---individuals/

 

This one is for Non Residents: https://www.ato.gov.au/Forms/You-and-your-shares-2018/?page=13

 

To answer your last question, from my understanding of the advice on the ATO website, as a non resident if you buy shares in the Australian share market, you do not pay tax on fully franked shares, i.e. shares that have already have had the tax taken out when you are paid your dividend, and there is no capital gains tax payable as a non resident who holds shares in Australia, however as an Australian Resident there is tax payable on any gains.

 

Hope the above assisted.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it did. However, I'm a bit cheesed off if I was classed as a non-resident, I would not get that lovely tax refund on the franking credits. If I was king of Australia, the first thing I would do is execute 90% of the bureaucrats. Not the original meaning of decimation, but OK by me.

[ELVIS123456]

10 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Yes it did. However, I'm a bit cheesed off if I was classed as a non-resident, I would not get that lovely tax refund on the franking credits. If I was king of Australia, the first thing I would do is execute 90% of the bureaucrats. Not the original meaning of decimation, but OK by me.

What are you gonna do with the other 10% of the useless incompetent a****les??

 

[Lacessit]

Just now, ELVIS123456 said:

What are you gonna do with the other 10% of the useless incompetent a****les??

 

Tell them they'll join the other 90% if they don't shape up.

[stud858]

Just watched the news.  Barnaby and Abott givving Malcolm some feedback. God, I love it so much.  So amusing to see em go at each other. 

What I wish for more than anything is for Tony to come back as PM 

 

It's ok to dream,.

[Bagwain]

13 minutes ago, stud858 said:

Just watched the news.  Barnaby and Abott givving Malcolm some feedback. God, I love it so much.  So amusing to see em go at each other. 

What I wish for more than anything is for Tony to come back as PM 

 

It's ok to dream,.

<deleted> You have got to be kidding. That idiot had toooo many times under the cloth of a priest or 2!!! 

[stud858]

Just read our lovely neighbours Nz are stopping foreigners from buying homes.  So since Australians.can buy Thai homes I hope Australia doesn't do the same because Thailand may do the same. Or even worse.  Confiscate homes.  Hoh!

 

[moojar]

6 hours ago, stud858 said:

Just read our lovely neighbours Nz are stopping foreigners from buying homes.  So since Australians.can buy Thai homes I hope Australia doesn't do the same because Thailand may do the same. Or even worse.  Confiscate homes.  Hoh!

 

Australians can buy Thai homes?  You mean condos? 

 

I've only read one article on the NZ changes, but it sounded similar to the Thailand rules: 

Quote

The bill will still allow foreigners to buy new apartments in large developments and multi-storey blocks. Existing homes remain off limits to non-residents, but people from Australia and Singapore will be exempt from the ban, due to free-trade rules.

https://www.canberratimes.com.au/world/oceania/new-zealand-to-ban-foreigners-from-buying-homes-20180811-p4zwwi.html

 

Good stuff I think - I hope we do similar. 

[moojar]

Interesting article re ATO data matching, might be relevant to recent discussions.  

Quote

The ATO is fed information from different institutions and then they do a data match with the tax return.

Quote

“We are increasingly using data and technology, to identify any missing income in your tax returns... "

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/tax/what-to-do-if-you-get-this-letter-from-the-ato/news-story/f2d3b44b40acb2832099c5003b5d8ad5

 

Govt departments are big IT users, and they have systems called 'data lakes', which are what they sound like - data is collected / dumped in, then they go fishing / data mining.  I imagine the ATO data matching would be utilising something like this, with feeds from Centrelink, Immigration, ASIC, etc. 

[moojar]

9 hours ago, stud858 said:

Just watched the news.  Barnaby and Abott givving Malcolm some feedback. God, I love it so much.  So amusing to see em go at each other. 

What I wish for more than anything is for Tony to come back as PM 

 

It's ok to dream,.

He was amusing.  Opposed everything when opposition leader, no matter what.  Then got all pissy when he was PM and Labor returned the favour.  

[4MyEgo]

10 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Yes it did. However, I'm a bit cheesed off if I was classed as a non-resident, I would not get that lovely tax refund on the franking credits. If I was king of Australia, the first thing I would do is execute 90% of the bureaucrats. Not the original meaning of decimation, but OK by me.

If they didn't class you as a non resident, I suppose you could keep declaring yourself as an Australian resident on your tax return as most others do, it's just going to be a bummer, if and when they audit you before you croak it. So it's a matter of weighing up the risks and eventually I think they will do away with this.

 

Personally I like to sleep as night.

[Nemises]

Thought you knew all there was to know about Australia? Think again.
This 3 part series now showing on the BBC may interest you.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01xzcwd

[4MyEgo]

26 minutes ago, moojar said:

Interesting article re ATO data matching, might be relevant to recent discussions.  

https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/tax/what-to-do-if-you-get-this-letter-from-the-ato/news-story/f2d3b44b40acb2832099c5003b5d8ad5

 

Govt departments are big IT users, and they have systems called 'data lakes', which are what they sound like - data is collected / dumped in, then they go fishing / data mining.  I imagine the ATO data matching would be utilising something like this, with feeds from Centrelink, Immigration, ASIC, etc. 

Not that this bothers me in the slightest, although it just goes to show how sophisticated their systems have become, so it's interesting that they can get this information from AirBnB platforms, some people might say whatever happened to our privacy under the Privacy Act.

 

One would assume AirBnB wouldn't be privy to give out such information unless it was a court order, however, I suppose if your advertising your property for rent with the address, it's out there isn't it, and that's where the data gets cross referenced, hmmm, some owners might try to telling AirBnB to withhold their addresses in the future until a property is booked, or AirBnB might take this on its own if it starts losing business over this, i.e. a street/road will be shown, but not the actual number of the property.

 

Gonna be a few pi$$ed off tax avoiders being red faced....."busted" !!! 

 

The ATO said it would examine the information provided by the online platforms like Airbnb to identify taxpayers who had left out rental income and over-claimed deductions. In 2016

 

I remember years ago, mates that were landlords trying to keep it quiet with their renting their properties against my advice, i.e. times have changed boys, things are not like they were when your mum and dad did this, computers are matching data, the ATO would match up details from the Rental Bond Board, electricity, gas departments data bases when they were auditing someone.......i.e. Dear Mr Landlord please explain why the utilities are no longer in your name as far back as XZY and we also note that you lodged a rental bond with the Rental Bond Board on behalf of the tenant Ms ABC, please contact our department to discuss....that was back in the 1980's, the technology today is far more superior, i.e. a computer picks up an address and inputs that information into government agency computers and brings up a name, the income tax report is checked to see if there is any income derived from rentals, and if not,

Bingo !!!

 

We all have to be careful, because one day if we let one loose in public, the scent might be picked up and with facial recognition becoming more and more part of our society, we might be publicly shamed over a loud speaker...lol  

 

[stud858]

Regarding Australian electricity prices. The problem is selling the state run power to private.  The only way is to buy it back and run it for the people.  Agreed? I watch the news and see so much Cooky talk.  Policy this policy that.  Plan this plan that. Agreement this agreement that. 

Peeing in the wind.  Fun for a child but I can tell you one thing for sure.

GO SOLAR and do it yesterday. 

[ELVIS123456]

6 hours ago, moojar said:

He was amusing.  Opposed everything when opposition leader, no matter what.  Then got all pissy when he was PM and Labor returned the favour.  

But he is right (again) and hopefully he will get Turnbull and his mob thrown out before the next election. 

 

I had always assumed that the Libs/Nats would always do the right thing by those that had worked and paid taxes all their life - and that Labor/Greens would always look after those who were on welfare (and newbies to the country).  What has become clear is that while Lab/Greens still look after their own, the Libs and Nats under Turnbull has abandoned their traditional base and now see us as an 'expense' and are looking for ways to reduce their budget costs by taking away our OAP entitlements, and also changing things on Super to also save costs. If anyone wants a list of those negative changes I suggest you seacrh google - there has been plenty over the last few years.

 

And there has been even worse attempted by the Libs/Nats (like OAP at 70) but thankfully Labs and Greens in the Sernate have blocked them. Hate to say it, but the old adage that the Libs/Nats only look after the 'big' end of towe is very clearly their preferred strategy going forward with Turnbull in charge.  If Turnbull stays on the Libs/Nats will probably lose the next election.  And they will definitewly have lost my vote - for the first time since 1983.