Timing of team’s discovery in cave was matter of luck: NYT

[sledpull]

"Luck" is where preparedness meets opportunity! Congratulations to all of the tenacious first responders and everyone involved in the search! God Bless the youngsters! The British divers rock!

[Kieran00001]

12 hours ago, jossthaifarang said:

You need to think about what I said.. I'm with the mate, not against..

 

You said he was gloating, which he was not.

[jossthaifarang]

10 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

You said he was gloating, which he was not.

Read further into the thread you will find the point I was trying to make, you are getting upset just because don't get it?

[jossthaifarang]

Congratulations to each and every living soul from every country and walk of life, which was involved in the entire operation of finding the young lads, right down to the lorry drivers.. 

 

I hope someone from any nation gets them out soon..

[Rimmer]

An off topic troll post about football has been removed

 

[tingtongtourist]

12 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

If it turns out what is being reported is true the MVP of this crisis may very well be Thai. Seems the young coach being ridiculed and threatened with arrest actually didn't lead the boys into the cave. He was contacted by several of the parents when the sons didn't arrive home. He went looking for them and most likely saved all of them with wise leadership. I think we can all agree the outcome most likely would have been different without his presence there for those nine days. Might be best to say there were multiple MVPs, like about 1000.

False.

I dont know if you already see it by now, but posters in another thread explained this.

The assistant coach was already in the cave.

The parents called the HEAD coach, asking about the boys. he went to the cave and by that time it was to late.

2 different coach!

that does not explain the Thai person ( a parent i think) who claims the boys went in alone.

to many chinese whispers here but the truth will eventually come out

but let us be happy its all good news so far.

[Just Weird]

19 hours ago, oldlakey said:

These people where called in because they are the BEST why would you want or accept second best

They weren't "called in" , they volunteered. 

Where did I say that I wanted or accepted 2nd best and who are you to judge that the rest of the rescue teams are 2nd best? 

The Briton did an excellent job, obviously, but he just happened to be the first one there (they had to proceed in single file because of the conditions so someone had to be first) and found the boys by luck, not special skill or judgement, as he could not proceed any further because he had reached the end of the rope he was placing on the route. That's the reason he surfaced at that point.  That's the reason he found them, it could have been any member of that team and none of them are "2nd best".

[Just Weird]

21 hours ago, sambum said:

"part of a big rescue team of equally proficient divers."

 

Totally wrong in your "all for one and one for all" statement - why did the Thai Navy Seals ask for assistance in the first place?

 

"Brits are probably one of the best cave-diving teams," said Dinko Novosel, head of the European Cave Rescue Commission, even before the search mission proved successful.

(That is a quote from the Los Angeles Times, by the way, just in case you are another Brit knocking Yank.)

 

And the reason for Dinko Novosel saying that? :-  

"It's not the first time they have lent their expertise to an international rescue effort.Stanton, who was made a Member of the Order of the British Empire, or MBE, in 2012, previously described his most memorable lifesaving effort as the 2004 rescue of six soldiers trapped by rising floodwaters in Mexico."

 

And that is only one of his efforts - I haven't even mentioned the achievements of the other two so that is why they are acknowledged as "the best in the World" and not "just a small part of a big rescue team of equally proficient divers."

I am not trying to take anything away from their tremendous achievement of the British divers, as part of a team,  but I am not "totally wrong", I am 100% correct and accurate, they are two members of an international team.

 

Thailand did not ask for them those two divers, or any other teams to be brought in, the international teams are there because they all offered to help the Thai teams and their offers were accepted.

 

That quote from the LA Times was made because it is probably correct but that doesn't alter the fact that they are just two very experienced members of a huge team.

 

Not that it's relevant, or any of your business, but I'm British and I'm not knocking anyone involved in the rescue.  I am knocking some comments on this thread, though, wherever their authors come from.

[Just Weird]

17 hours ago, Puritan said:

If the others had been equally proficient then the best cave rescuers in world wouldn't have to travel half way across the world to show the others how it's done. Doh. No one said they did it on their own anyway. Think you have an appropriate name.

No one had to travel half way across the world, they volunteered.

 

Without taking anything away from any of the rescue team, there has been no suggestion from anywhere that the rescue would not have been successful without those two Britons. And they weren't the only ones who knew how it was done...doh!

 

"No one said they did it on their own anyway".

Many comments have been made on this forum implying that the discovery of the children was down to the two British divers.

[JoePai]

21 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

No one had to travel half way across the world, they volunteered.

 

Without taking anything away from any of the rescue team, there has been no suggestion from anywhere that the rescue would not have been successful without those two Britons. And they weren't the only ones who knew how it was done...doh!

 

"No one said they did it on their own anyway".

Many comments have been made on this forum implying that the discovery of the children was down to the two British divers.

Agree with what you say but the fact remains the Brits are the best  :

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/03/not-surprising-british-cavers-found-trapped-thai-boys-lead/

[sambum]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

I am not trying to take anything away from their tremendous achievement of the British divers, as part of a team,  but I am not "totally wrong", I am 100% correct and accurate, they are two members of an international team.

 

Thailand did not ask for them those two divers, or any other teams to be brought in, the international teams are there because they all offered to help the Thai teams and their offers were accepted.

 

That quote from the LA Times was made because it is probably correct but that doesn't alter the fact that they are just two very experienced members of a huge team.

 

Not that it's relevant, or any of your business, but I'm British and I'm not knocking anyone involved in the rescue.  I am knocking some comments on this thread, though, wherever their authors come from.

I am not prepared to nit pick or bandy words with you any more on this subject, because going by previous experience nothing will change your blinkered view. I will however say, and sorry to have to repeat this, and a number of posters agree with the point, and as the British divers' previous records speak for themselves:- 

 "equally proficient divers" - TOTALLY WRONG!!!

Edited July 5, 2018 by sambum

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, Just Weird said:

I am not trying to take anything away from their tremendous achievement of the British divers, as part of a team,  but I am not "totally wrong", I am 100% correct and accurate, they are two members of an international team.

 

Thailand did not ask for them those two divers, or any other teams to be brought in, the international teams are there because they all offered to help the Thai teams and their offers were accepted.

 

That quote from the LA Times was made because it is probably correct but that doesn't alter the fact that they are just two very experienced members of a huge team.

 

Not that it's relevant, or any of your business, but I'm British and I'm not knocking anyone involved in the rescue.  I am knocking some comments on this thread, though, wherever their authors come from.

 

No, actually you are not 100% correct and accurate, you are in fact making things up.

 

Thailand did ask for help, they requested PACOM and PACOM sent 30 of their search and rescue command personnel.

[sambum]

18 hours ago, Puritan said:

If the others had been equally proficient then the best cave rescuers in world wouldn't have to travel half way across the world to show the others how it's done. Doh. No one said they did it on their own anyway. Think you have an appropriate name.

Bravo! Totally agree with ALL of this post!

[sambum]

38 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, actually you are not 100% correct and accurate, you are in fact making things up.

 

Thailand did ask for help, they requested PACOM and PACOM sent 30 of their search and rescue command personnel.

Thank you! Just like some of his other comments! :-

Some posters just seem to write down words that look good without engaging their brains first!

 

"just a small part of a big rescue team of equally proficient divers.

Edited July 5, 2018 by sambum

[sambum]

5 hours ago, JAZZDOG said:

Make it easy for you and we can move back on topic. Combine it all and about half the size of Texas with more rain.

Yorkshire farmer showing Texan rancher round his fields. Texan rancher says "Man, call this a farm? - it takes me two days just to drive round my ranch!" Yorkshire farmer says "Eeh. by gum. lad , I used to have a car like that an' all!"

 

Sorry - off topic - just a touch of light humour in a situation that everybody should be happy about!

[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, sambum said:

Thank you! Just like some of his other comments! :-

Some posters just seem to write down words that look good without engaging their brains first!

 

"just a small part of a big rescue team of equally proficient divers.

 

Yes, they just like to shoot their mouths off, particularly the one who you were arguing with, a well known troll round here.

[oldlakey]

6 hours ago, Just Weird said:

They weren't "called in" , they volunteered. 

Where did I say that I wanted or accepted 2nd best and who are you to judge that the rest of the rescue teams are 2nd best? 

The Briton did an excellent job, obviously, but he just happened to be the first one there (they had to proceed in single file because of the conditions so someone had to be first) and found the boys by luck, not special skill or judgement, as he could not proceed any further because he had reached the end of the rope he was placing on the route. That's the reason he surfaced at that point.  That's the reason he found them, it could have been any member of that team and none of them are "2nd best".

They were there because they are the best deal with that fact fellow

As far as the second best goes perhaps I should have said why would anyone want second best just for you

The Briton did not just happen to be there they were at the front leading the way because of one reason only, they were the best for that task

[oldlakey]

7 hours ago, Eligius said:

To be fair, it is rather confusing - this 'Britain' and 'United Kingdom' thing.

Actually, Britain is England, Scotland and Wales; the United Kingdom is England, Scotland and Wales PLUS Northern Ireland.

But loads of people get this wrong!

The way things are going it might not be quite so confusing in the near future

[Puritan]

7 hours ago, Just Weird said:

No one had to travel half way across the world, they volunteered.

 

Without taking anything away from any of the rescue team, there has been no suggestion from anywhere that the rescue would not have been successful without those two Britons. And they weren't the only ones who knew how it was done...doh!

 

"No one said they did it on their own anyway".

Many comments have been made on this forum implying that the discovery of the children was down to the two British divers.

Well who did discover them if it wasn't the British divers, it certainly wasn't anyone above ground making cups of tea, of course they had support but it is an undeniable fact that the British cave rescuers found the kids.

 

[Just Weird]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

I am not prepared to nit pick or bandy words with you any more on this subject, because going by previous experience nothing will change your blinkered view. I will however say, and sorry to have to repeat this, and a number of posters agree with the point, and as the British divers' previous records speak for themselves:- 

 "equally proficient divers" - TOTALLY WRONG!!!

Having diametrically opposed views on a specific subject is not nit picking.

 

"equally proficient divers" - TOTALLY WRONG!!!

Explain how you know that?  The fact that "a number of posters agree" does not make it a fact. 

 

What do you know about the "previous records" of the RTN Seals that justifies your being able to compare them objectively with the British divers?  ⅝ of bugger all, I reckon would be about right.

[Just Weird]

6 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, actually you are not 100% correct and accurate, you are in fact making things up.

 

Thailand did ask for help, they requested PACOM and PACOM sent 30 of their search and rescue command personnel.

No, actually, I am correct as this discussion that I'm commenting on is about whether the British divers were asked to come here when they did at the start of the search.  They weren't, simple as that, they volunteered.

[Just Weird]

6 hours ago, sambum said:

Thank you! Just like some of his other comments! :-

Some posters just seem to write down words that look good without engaging their brains first!

 

"just a small part of a big rescue team of equally proficient divers.

I'm talking about the volunteer British divers, not PACOM personnel (the Britons are not part of that force) but I do understand that it may be a bit difficult for you to understand that as it involves reading and comprehension.

 

Ironically, some posters just seem to write down words that look good without engaging their brains first!

[Just Weird]

5 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Yes, they just like to shoot their mouths off, particularly the one who you were arguing with, a well known troll round here.

"...a well known troll round here".

I'm not sure who you're referring to but that's only the opinion, and a very weak cop-out, of those who have no rational argument to an opinion that differs from theirs and that makes more sense than theirs.

 

Here's an idea for you, if you think someone that disagrees with you is a troll why don't you report him, whoever he is, as trolling contravenes the forum rules?   

Edited July 5, 2018 by Just Weird

[Just Weird]

1 hour ago, Puritan said:

Well who did discover them if it wasn't the British divers, it certainly wasn't anyone above ground making cups of tea, of course they had support but it is an undeniable fact that the British cave rescuers found the kids.

 

Absolutely undeniable, you're right but you left out the very pertinent fact that they were members of an international team.  They were not working on their own and someone had to be first in line, the two British divers weren't, only one of them was, and he discovered them by pure good fortune when the line he was laying underwater ran out and he surfaced.  To use a figure of speech, that was good luck rather than good management, he had no idea that the children were there.

Edited July 5, 2018 by Just Weird

[oldlakey]

2 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Absolutely undeniable, you're right but you left out the very pertinent fact that they were members of an international team, they were nor working on their own and someone had to be first in line, the two British divers weren't, one of them was, and he discovered them by pure good fortune when the line he was laying ran out and he surfaced.  He had no idea that the children were there.

Of course not thats why they were searching for them, and eventually found them

[Just Weird]

3 minutes ago, oldlakey said:

Of course not thats why they were searching for them, and eventually found them

You really need to read about the sequence of events that led to that diver "finding" the children.  If the line that he was laying had been longer he would have gone past the children and someone else down the line would have seen them regardless of the first British diver's undoubted skills.

[oldlakey]

@ Just Weird

You are obviously having a real struggle coming to terms with the way this has unfolded up to press

There is some good news for you today though, one of the British divers has gone home

Now you wont have to worry about what he might do next

[Just Weird]

Just now, oldlakey said:

@ Just Weird

You are obviously having a real struggle coming to terms with the way this has unfolded up to press

There is some good news for you today though, one of the British divers has gone home

Now you wont have to worry about what he might do next

I'm not struggling at all and neither do I have any worries about any of the divers so why would you think that would be good news in my mind?

[oldlakey]

1 minute ago, Just Weird said:

You really need to read about the sequence of events that led to that diver "finding" the children.  If the line that he was laying had been longer he would have gone past the children and someone else down the line would have seen them regardless of the first British diver's undoubted skills.

Well its no wonder you are spitting blood how unlucky was that for you and the others who think likewise 

I think with your luck mate the second British diver would have been favourite to discover them as he was next in line

Nevermind

[sambum]

59 minutes ago, Just Weird said:

Having diametrically opposed views on a specific subject is not nit picking.

 

"equally proficient divers" - TOTALLY WRONG!!!

Explain how you know that?  The fact that "a number of posters agree" does not make it a fact. 

 

What do you know about the "previous records" of the RTN Seals that justifies your being able to compare them objectively with the British divers?  ⅝ of bugger all, I reckon would be about right.

If the RTN Seals were so good, they wouldn't have needed any help, and I am sure that if they had any previous records of achievement in cave rescues it would have been trumpeted far and wide, and they would have deemed themselves to be totally capable of handling the situation themselves. For goodness sake, man. they asked the British divers to help because they had better knowledge of that particular cave than the Thais themselves!!!

 

I reckon a previous poster got it right about you - you're going on "Ignore" and as far as this post and you and I are concerned -  

 

P.S. Just before you go on my "Ignore" list - from Sky News:-

 "The trio were were sent by the British Cave Rescue Council, who had been contacted by Thai authorities to come to the aid of the missing team."

   

Edited July 5, 2018 by sambum