Must Read Trapped Thai team gets dive lessons as rescuers plan for extraction

[NoshowJones]

"Another younger boy wears the blue shirt of English team Chelsea".

 

No chance of any of them wearing the blue shirt of Scottish team Sevco.

[chrisinth]

2 hours ago, chrisinth said:

I'm also wondering that. To me it seemed that during the search phase, from the entrance to the boy's location, the searchers were faced with high water levels from the water ingress into the cave system and fighting against the current.

 

It would be logical to assume that on the way out, the current would be behind them, therefore not causing that much problem (dependent of course on the strength of said current). With the rain having held off, major water courses diverted and the water level dropping through extensive pumping (I understand at a rate of approx. 1cm per hour) the speed of the current should have slackened at least a little.

 

It would seem to me that this is approaching a good time to try for an extraction. I am sure that the SEAL's have been doing 'dry' runs, simulating the boys weight and body masses to see what is the best way to assist through the trickier parts. But, it all comes down to safety, and the physical state of the children, this has to remain the priority until the exercise is completed.

 

All the above has been said without knowledge of the cave system and the local effects of the water current, or cross-currents at various points of it's transit.

Just to add to the above, with a lot of the difficulties explained by Bill Whitehouse from the British Cave Rescue Council in a very good video clip.

 

Hopefully the link will be allowed; I was unable to rip the video clip.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-44720685/thailand-cave-rescue-what-are-the-options 

[NoshowJones]

3 hours ago, Eligius said:

Yes, you are right. Apparently, it is pretty common for Thais not to be able to swim. I hope that after this event, the Authorities will ensure that swimming lessons are a compulsory part of the school curriculum (as they were when I was a kid in England, where being able to swim was regarded as one of the most important life skills that needed to be acquired). No expense should be spared on this.

 

I wrote about this in another thread, it appears that in most parts of Thailand, especially in Isaan, there are very few swimming pools. and certainly not near schools apart from maybe the odd exceptions.

[maxcorrigan]

It's alright Prawit giving advise OK for him being half toad, easy thing to do! more serious note it seems boring a hole from the top has been discarded, so it seems the boys swimming out is the only option, which would frighten the life out of me, but being at their age it will seem like an adventure, I think it will come off OK, certainly better than waiting 4 months.

[KKr]

7 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

Why can't they couple some form of full-body wetsuit (flexible, small, and streamlined), with some form of full helmet such that the entire suit is airtight, and connect the helmet to an air source from an external tank carried by one of the seals?  With such a suit, the kids could be towed through with one seal ahead, one behind, and knowledge of scuba would be almost unnecessary.

a wetsuit has a waterfilm in it that keeps the body warm.
so if a helmet were fixed to it, the air goes up, which is fine until one needs to go head down in a passage when some problems are likely to occur.
a dry suit is not really suitable because it contains air and consequently floats, unless a lot of weights are carried and proper heavy foot covers are worn to keep the head and air up, what makes it difficult to go through passages that are to shallow to stand in. Also, tearing risks are apparently quite large especially in narrow passages.

In any case, the uplift of the air tank needs to be compensated with weights to be able to drift through passages.
I guess for the shallow and narrow passage they will use small size air tanks that are easier to manipulate, and switch back to 12 L tanks for the longer underwater crawls.

See the Good BBC video link above !!

 

Edited July 5, 2018 by KKr

[Cake Monster]

 I am sure that with some diving and swimming practice the kids will make it out OK.

Firstly they need some high nutritional food intake to build them back up. They look very skinny and withdrawn ( which is to be expected ), and the flood waters will surely have strong currents.

With the help of SEALS and other divers using a " buddy up " system with each of the lads all along the route of extraction passing them along a human chain they will be able to reach safety.

But as others have stated, level heads need to prevail from now on with no undue risk taking.

OK, if it takes a few days longer, then the press will have to wait,  as will others higher up the food chain

[KKr]

3 hours ago, chrisinth said:

Just to add to the above, with a lot of the difficulties explained by Bill Whitehouse from the British Cave Rescue Council in a very good video clip.

 

Hopefully the link will be allowed; I was unable to rip the video clip.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-44720685/thailand-cave-rescue-what-are-the-options 

thanks for posting, excellent matter of fact explanation of the options !

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

I can't believe 12 boys between 11 & 16 yrs old, need to be taught how to swim !! That's pretty shocking IMO..

Add to that teaching them how to use dive gear, swim through tight squeezes and not panic !!!

This ain't over by a long shot..

Lets just hope no more rain comes their way too soon, need to get them all out and safe..

 

 Most Thais I've met and known in my many years here have absolutely been non-swimmers.

 

Yes, they can walk in the shallow end of the pool or out into the shallow water areas of the beach.

 

But when it came to actually swimming where they couldn't touch their feet to the bottom, it's usually been a no-go.

 

[maximillian]

10 hours ago, Eligius said:

The article says 'All these survivors will have to be taught to swim ...' - so it seems that they really cannot swim, as most reports have stated from the outset.

 

In this case it isn't necessary for them to be able to swim, though it would help.

All they have to do is to be relaxed and breathe through their regulators. Everything else will be handled by the professionel divers.

[maximillian]

7 hours ago, BEVUP said:

Wont need them the current will do the job

Plus the guiding lines. They can pull themselves forward on them. And don't forget, they are not left alone. I'm sure there will be at least two SEALS with each of them.  As long as they keep calm everything will be fine.

[trainman34014]

Is it just me or have other people also got the feeling they are now trying to rush this through ?     When the kids were found they said it could be three months before they could get out but just the other day some bright spark said they could be out by the end of this week.   Now it seems they are saying they will be brought out one at a time asap before more rains and flooding occurs.

 

Have all the Foreign experts gone home now leaving the shambolic thinking Thai's to 'Mastermind' the extraction process ?     If this is so then we could still yet end up losing some lives here through incompetence !

[Sheryl]

24 minutes ago, trainman34014 said:

Is it just me or have other people also got the feeling they are now trying to rush this through ?     When the kids were found they said it could be three months before they could get out but just the other day some bright spark said they could be out by the end of this week.   Now it seems they are saying they will be brought out one at a time asap before more rains and flooding occurs.

 

Have all the Foreign experts gone home now leaving the shambolic thinking Thai's to 'Mastermind' the extraction process ?     If this is so then we could still yet end up losing some lives here through incompetence !

 

1. They will pretty much have to be gotten out within the next few days OR wait until the end of the rainy season, unless there is an unseasonal dry spell somewhere in between. Whether the first  will be possible  will depend on multiple factors: the water level, how the boys respond to dive training etc. These factors are evolving over time.

 

2. I have been following this very, very closely and have significant prior experience in large scale disaster relief (not involving caves, though, but many there are aspects that are  common to all disaster work). I see nothing "shambolic" at all in what is being done/considered, quite the contrary. Do take into account the often chaotic nature of news reporting, especially when news reports are being translated from the original Thai. While I don't have the sense of chaos in the relief work I do definitely sense a major media circus, as is typical in these situations. Reports are so frantic to have something to report, they will speak to anyone and magnify any scrap of conversation.

 

3. Foreign experts are still present in large numbers,from 7 countries,  including 2 of the 3 original British divers and 2 more Brit cave diving experts are enroute.

 

Personally I am quite impressed with the caliber of this effort to date.

[utalkin2me]

SOmetimes you think too long, you think too wrong, as the saying goes. Being too careful isn't always the best option, as counterintuative as that may be.

 

I think they need to be extracted personally. You do not need to be able to swim to scuba through the caves.