Rescuers ponder how to extract boys from flooded Thai cave as more rain due

[Jingthing]

22 minutes ago, mike324 said:

I wonder how much more room they have if water increases inside. Could they go further in? Also it would be interesting to see the scans of the tunnels. Anyone scanning the cave from above?

Good questions but I'm going to make some assumptions (always dangerous) 

 

-- It is possible for them to be flooded out from their current ledge

-- If there was an accessible place that they go even now (without diving anywhere) that was safer to stay in place, we would have heard about it by now and possibly they would have even been moved there by now.

[Formaleins]

Get those kids trained up on swimming and using SCUBA, get them out ASAP.

Just so he knows how stupid he was for taking those kids in there, they can leave the coach inside for the 4 months, along with some tapes of monks chanting to be played endlessly for the 4 months, maybe he might think twice.....or maybe even think once would be nice.

[tpazzi]

Interesting diagram of the cave's condition on this link:  

Graphic shows extraordinary route to boys trapped

 

[JAZZDOG]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

As you have said elsewhere, let us just hope that judicious assessments of the situation are made and that no unnecessary rush is entered into before the boys are ready. I am sure that every one of us here has his heart with those brave young men ...

 

Couldn't agree more, waiting for 4 months when the water will go way down certainly seems a long time / a very frustrating time, but better than losing even one of the boys because of a panic attack etc.

 

Let's face it can 7 days, even 14 days of learning to swim and learning how to use scuba equipment etc.,  and diving underwater swimming in total darkness and for a passage through hundred of meters of very past moving water, is IMHO quite risky.

 

Four months out of the perhaps 70 years of life is actually a small amount of time. No risk at all please.

 

Whatever, good luck. 

 

 

Been thinking about it and as much as I would like them out a week ago the risk of them diving out seems to great. Even if you assure 95% that still equates to any one of the boys having a much lower chance based on varying issues. By all means, put these kids thru diving school, take advantage of the rare opportunity. There can be no excuse to not have more than enough pumping capability. Like those huge pumps they use in Holland. Had they gone balls out getting more pumps it seems all the better. Worst case is wait for the rains, not handle the water and lose the kids and rescue people. Not an option so I certainly hope they have a flood proof spot and not that sand spit they are on now.

[steve73]

This link shows one of the detailed survey maps...

http://www.chiangmaicitylife.com/news/rescue-updates-teenager-football-team-found-alive-cave/

[Media1]

Here we go let the tale chasing begin.

[Thian]

I just watched a video where the divers walk in the water filled cave.

 

They need cordless drillmachines to install a good handrail. They could even install a rail to guide a cocoon which contains a boy wearing a divemask and yank that cocoon through the water guided by the rail.

[steve73]

This was posted on one of the other threads...

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-44720685/thailand-cave-rescue-what-are-the-options

[JAZZDOG]

6 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Here we go let the tale chasing begin.

It does seem that the buck stops nowhere. I really had hoped the Brits would stay around to point directions. Almost seems the window maybe closing to swim out, might be a good thing.

[tpazzi]

Here's a discussion about what experienced SCUBA divers go thru to become certified cave divers.   Not specific to this situation, but an interesting read.

If you study the maps on the link that steve73 posted, there's a section of the cave with about 1 meter clearance.   I had read in other reports that the drivers could not fit thru it while wearing their tanks.   I realize in the event of a swim-out that the kids would be escorted by experienced divers, but this is quite tricky.   Certainly not as simple as strapping on a tank and hopping into a 10 meter swimming pool.    
 
Requirements to become a certified cave diver

[visacrack]

Thanks for reminding me to put this question before DIN. I always wanted to do that but somehow never got around doing it. I'm pretty certain it's a german norm (thus DIN, or din.de). If they manage to reply within a week, ie haven't adopted the bad habits that came with the americanised robot economy (hotlines & co), I'll post their answer here one of these days. And strangely enough, there's virtually nothing about it on the internet.

 

[gerritkaew]

Maiby by use bigger pumps the water will go!!

I see a few days ago one pipe on a trailer who's having the right sise!! This would empty a pool in 20 sec and a lake in one day.  but where you leave all this water and not let it go back to the cave.....

[joecoolfrog]

2 hours ago, greenchair said:

I never thought I would say this, but they really should let the international team help. It is such a pity that 1 of the divers has been sent home. He is one of the few people that could actually lead the kids out. Did he decide to leave ?or did they politely escort him to the gate? It seems that since the boys have been found the Thais have taken full control. The result is. ...

Whilst one team was pumping water out, another unknown team was pumping water right back into the cave ?. 

The telephone line plan was discarded so now a diver must travel all the way in and out just to call the boss about what they should do. ?taking many hours. And now we see the telephone that planned to go in the bag broke and they lost it. ?

It seems the situation is fast turning to chaos. 

The aren't coming they are here. Though I won't give up hope. I'm sure those 2 brits could have Brough out a few 1 by 1. 

But someone has this idea they must all go at the same time. 

If they did 3 a day starting with the strongest it would be a lot easier all around. 

Only one of the Brits has come home , for medical checks , hardly surprising as he is 70 years old.

He got an official send off with a message of thanks so it doesn't appear that the Thais are attempting to sideline the international experts.

[Thian]

I just saw on tv that the divers need 11 hours to go to the cave and back to bring messages over.

 

Isn't it possible to make a wire between the boys and the rescueteams? They need one of these pistols which can shoot nails into concrete, this way they can make that cable in a few hours.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

International teams (plural - many of them, many countries) are helping.

 

2 of the 3 UK expert cave rescuers  are still there, advising. They do so behind the scenes, quietly, but I think having been the ones to lead the way in they have plenty of respect and credibility.. And from interviews they definitely did not think bringing them out was easy nor something that could be done at once. Explicitly said, very tricky/dangerous. As did other experienced cave divers interviewed, and as the Thai Navy seals say. Basically everyone who has actually dived it, says it is very dangerous/difficult.

 

Only 1 of the 3 UK guys  went back, medical reason.

There are 2 places along the cave that will not fit a diver with tanks. They have to take the tanks off their backs and drag them. Even as an experienced diver I would find that very hard to handle. Small dark spaces with zero visibility. No thanks. It's the Thai authorities and media that keep harping on about extracting them soon. I haven't heard one foreign expert mention bringing them out soon. If they are going to bring them out soon, they had better hurry as heavy rain is expected in only a few days. It would seem it's either VERY soon, or not until months down the road.

[visacrack]

38 minutes ago, visacrack said:

 

Ok, I think I understand how this works in the original german version, see attachment: The 41 etc there mean 4.1 m etc. And arms and spaces in the E are a 2 cm scale each.

Edited July 5, 2018 by visacrack

[tropo]

1 hour ago, tpazzi said:

Interesting diagram of the cave's condition on this link:  

Graphic shows extraordinary route to boys trapped

 

That diagram indicates the team is 3.8 miles into the cave. That's 6.08 km. That has to be wrong. I've heard 2 - 3km.

 

I've seen so many different estimates of how far into the cave they are. Can't they get that one fact straight?

[mok199]

not sure ''Ponder ''is the appropriate term...

[steve73]

Some good updates here.. (assuming the link is allowed..?)

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/thailand-cave-rescue-news-live-latest-from-tham-luang-as-trapped-football-team-wait-to-hear-of-a3878681.html

[Parsve]

4 hours ago, tr4der8888 said:

I know nothing about diving but the danger seems to be that the children panic whilst coming out - hence the suggestion they be tied up which would seem likely to cause panic.

 

Would not some form of calming medication be a better idea maybe so they sleep through the whole process?

 

Heart-rending story, be good when they are all safe.

I have seen this kind of suggestion now and then, and the answer is no. You could do it for instance at a hospital when there is a doctor that control the breathing and other circumstances all the time, but that would not be a possibility in this case. About the diving, it is a very high risk for specialized divers, what will it then be to children that not even can swim.  

[BEVUP]

I hope they have the masks in with the lads already (doesn't sound like it )

 

As for the mobile phone, what will the world think

 

There is no way they will be walking out on Saturday, & if they're thinking that it means they have left the dive to late as the rains will be there 

[Sheryl]

2 more British cave divers are en route there with a lot of gear according to this https://darknessbelow.co.uk/wp-content/cache/all/thai-rescue-update-two-more-british-cave-divers-en-route-to-tham-luang-cave/index.html

[manarak]

They should try it with a mannequin/dummy of the size of the largest person with an oxygen mask on.

[greenchair]

3 hours ago, mike324 said:

I wonder how much more room they have if water increases inside. Could they go further in? Also it would be interesting to see the scans of the tunnels. Anyone scanning the cave from above?

They are at the end of the cave 

[Tug]

I wonder how much of the journey out of the cave has an airspace that would help keep the panick impulse down its the current that worries me the most they might have to wait it out provided they have a ledge abouve the highest water level 

[BEVUP]

2 minutes ago, Tug said:

I wonder how much of the journey out of the cave has an airspace that would help keep the panick impulse down its the current that worries me the most they might have to wait it out provided they have a ledge abouve the highest water level 

Wouldn't worry about the current, that will be their savior 

They should send in 26 divers & take them out in intervals 

They will have enough oxygen if there are tanks every 25 mtrs (but make sure they all don't re supply at the same point )

[greenchair]

38 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

2 more British cave divers are en route there with a lot of gear according to this https://darknessbelow.co.uk/wp-content/cache/all/thai-rescue-update-two-more-british-cave-divers-en-route-to-tham-luang-cave/index.html

Thanks for the great information. 

I'm glad the brits are coming. 

I really think the brits will need to bring them out 

[akaika]

5 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Right, thanks.

I hadn't realised it was resting on a rock, I can't make it out. I had assumed (always dangerous!) it was on the ground. It all makes sense now.

 

The "E" markings are just to allow easy reading from a distance.  This type of marker isn't actually showing the water level above the rock (but you can see that too if it was on a rock).  Actually, there is a laser at a fixed reference (not in the picture) and this staff is raised or lowered until the receiver matches the laser reference.  Then the water is actually measured 'down' from the reference position.

 

[Media1]

10 hours ago, Eligius said:

Well said, Darksidedog. I could not have said it better. The dilemma faced by the advisers and decision-makers is a terrible one. Yet I do sincerely believe that the boys and their assistant coach will somehow be brought out into safety. It won't be at all easy - but I have hope that it can and will be done.

As you have said elsewhere, let us just hope that judicious assessments of the situation are made and that no unnecessary rush is entered into before the boys are ready. I am sure that every one of us here has his heart with those brave young men ...

There are no other options period drilling is a huge risk. Along with water from Monsoon

 AS l said immediate training and extractions.. End of story

[mettech]

It is a very perplex situation and I would think all scenarios have been brought to light? what about digging a hole the size of a casing from surface to the area where it would be safe to do so I remember somewhere in the world miners being trapped underground and the mining company used this method.

Just a say Boudha will save them helped by human.