Peasandmash Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 "A rescue diver says the easiest way to get the Thai soccer team out of the cave is to drug them" <deleted>??? I'm heading for that cave in Sankamphange.. Please let this rescue diver know I've fallen and can't get out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tolsti Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, Wullie Mercer said: How about they prepare a drill rig onsite and drill a "pilot" hole and they can better estimate how the ground is for drilling a big hole. 600-800 metres in lime stone should not be a big problem these days. Also as a bonus it will give access to a good air supply just in case it is a long wait in there, brought on by illness or water problems. Are you a bit slow? They have been drilling for days. The difficulty is estimating where to drill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpazzi Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, crankshaft said: The question is....how did they get 5k into the cave? The area where they are now is near what is known as Pattaya Beach. Those familiar with the cave say it is most likely to remains dry when the rest of the cave system floods. Once they realized they were trapped, it was the logical place to try to get to to wait out the flood. This was known to the rescuers and it was their objective to get there to try to locate the lost hikers since this was the most likely place where they could be found alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crankshaft Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, Tongjaw said: Uber, Tuk Tuk or Grab taxi maybe? If you read the story and you will find out that it wasn’t flooded when they entered Wow...I did not know that Uber/tuk tuk/taxis drove into caves with parts so narrow that person had only enough room to literally crawl through and scale walls to get to the next passage... you sir are a genius....thanks for the enlightenment... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpazzi Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 3 hours ago, gamini said: I really can't, understand why nobody has suggested using oxygen rebreather's. The apparatus is small and, light and the tanks are small too. They would hold enough oxygen for over two hours use. There would be no air bubbles which could affect any visibility. They are normally not used for the diving because oxygen is toxic at over 30 feet depth. But water in the cave is very shallow, so there would be no problem. The problem isn't the equipment available, per se, although there is one place along the extraction route where the divers need to take the tanks off in order to navigate a small opening. (I don't know if a diver with a rebreather would fit thru it) The main problem is the strength, and direction, of the water currents,. The experienced rescue divers, who presumably are reasonably strong swimmers, are needing to use ropes to pull themselves against currents on the swim out. Reports say none of the children know how to swim (and of course they have no experience using diving gear in dark, tight conditions). It is reasonable to take some time getting them prepared for the ordeal. The current situation here is to try to pump out as much water as they can before the levels begin to rise again. The more they can lower water reduces difficulty of the the extraction. As long as the pumping is reducing the water level, then the best option is to wait in place and take advantage of the time to train up the kids, stock supplies, and prepare guide ropes along the route. The time to assess progress and decide if a swim out is viable will be when the re-fill rate begins to exceed the pumping drain rate. (or when weather forecasts indicate that this is imminent.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccarty Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 We have offered a commercial/military solution that will take multiple stage SRP systems with ex-military, now commercial divers and commercial diving systems. It may also not be 100% fail safe, but likely is. To continue on as a SCUBA rescue, blood on your hands is guaranteed from the info we can see. The offer is still out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eaglekott Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 5 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Frankly, I just can't understand how or why the group, apparently led by their coach, would have felt the need or desire to travel so far into this underground labyrinth. Maybe they got lost and thought it was the way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wullie Mercer Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, tolsti said: Are you a bit slow? They have been drilling for days. The difficulty is estimating where to drill. Have never read anything about a drill phase. there are radio/sonic transmitters that if deployed inside on site will pin point where to drill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natway09 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 They could easily bring in an oxygen tent, where they could exercise in & sleep in. If they still do not have wire supplied electricity someone is remiss. The hygiene situation " should "have been sorted on the first rescue day, Medication, special minerals & vitamins can be administered . Let's have no more loss of life because "someone" says, get them out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anto Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, jmccarty said: We have offered a commercial/military solution that will take multiple stage SRP systems with ex-military, now commercial divers and commercial diving systems. It may also not be 100% fail safe, but likely is. To continue on as a SCUBA rescue, blood on your hands is guaranteed from the info we can see. The offer is still out there. Whats an SRP. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Why can't they use dynamite ? In the old days miners drilled holes into the rock and packed them with dynamite , then they would be able to open the tiny passages. I guess there are some risks by using this method , but it seems to me every method they choose to follow can be risky . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tongjaw Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, crankshaft said: Wow...I did not know that Uber/tuk tuk/taxis drove into caves with parts so narrow that person had only enough room to literally crawl through and scale walls to get to the next passage... you sir are a genius....thanks for the enlightenment... And you obviously aren’t even close to being a genius, you can’t even understand a joke comment. You must be a real hit at parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starky Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, CGW said: "positive action combined with positive thinking results in success" Not your mantra is it? ? Guess thats what the US thought in Vietnam. This isn't rainbows and lollipops time. I dont profess to have the knowledge or level of expertise of those that actually are on site do but I am sure if they thought it was feasible it would already be being discussed. What's your level of expertise as far as cave diving rescue goes? Or do you just cross your fingers click your heels and think there's no place like home... keep your mantras for a seminar buddy this is the real world. Clown Edited July 7, 2018 by starky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGW Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 2 hours ago, tolsti said: Are you a bit slow? They have been drilling for days. The difficulty is estimating where to drill. Obviously I am a bit slow ? Please enlighten me with a link to where you know this "fact" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny2017 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, CGW said: Obviously I am a bit slow ? Please enlighten me with a link to where you know this "fact" I've not seen anything where they've started drilling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 11 hours ago, rooster59 said: They have since been trapped on a muddy shelf at Noen Nom Sao, which is about five kilometres from the mouth of the cave They just can't get the distance straight, as though a kilometer or so is a trivial detail. I've seen 2 - 3km, 6km and now 5km. Anyone for 4km? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DILLIGAD Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 They just can't get the distance straight, as though a kilometer or so is a trivial detail. I've seen 2 - 3km, 6km and now 5km. Anyone for 4km? I believe this is exactly what Mr SpaceX is going to help with!Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said: 56 minutes ago, tropo said: They just can't get the distance straight, as though a kilometer or so is a trivial detail. I've seen 2 - 3km, 6km and now 5km. Anyone for 4km? I believe this is exactly what Mr SpaceX is going to help with! I just saw 4km in another report. Regarding round trip time for the rescue divers - I've seen everything from 3 hours to 10 hours (5 hours each way) and more. Edited July 7, 2018 by tropo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) I have a feeling this operation is being hindered by a "too many cooks" problem without sufficient organization - too many people running around in a haphazard fashion. We can't even get solid information about what is actually going on.... For example, many reports are stressing that the air quality is dropping in the cave to as low as 15% oxygen. Other reports, by British divers, are saying that the air quality in the cave is OK. Others are reporting that airlines have been installed. Some reports stated that telephone lines had been installed. Others said they are in the process of trying to install telephone lines. If they are going to install phone lines, they had better be careful where they lay them as the divers could easily be entangled in them. One report mentioned that someone tried to dive in with mobile phones, but they got wet. Who would believe a mobile phone can pick up a signal 1km below the surface in the mountains? Edited July 7, 2018 by tropo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yrag Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Not going to be easy....No... Need to go now....God Speed Not going to be easy.mp4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lokie Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Well I couldn't do any of that $ h iT , they would have to drug me or knock me clean out, I would be freaking out if in a tight spot thinking could get stuck and drown - no thanks. I just hope they all get out safely and no one else gets injured or worse... Godspeed! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tropo Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 11 minutes ago, yrag said: Not going to be easy....No... Need to go now....God Speed Not going to be easy.mp4 1 Now try that again with most of the tunnels flooded and using scuba gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny2017 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 1 hour ago, tropo said: They just can't get the distance straight, as though a kilometer or so is a trivial detail. I've seen 2 - 3km, 6km and now 5km. Anyone for 4km? Let's see. 2 - 3 km= 2.5 now + 3 + 6 : by 3 = 11.5. Divided by 3 = 3.8333333333333 km. Agreed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yrag Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 16 minutes ago, Lokie said: Well I couldn't do any of that $ h iT , they would have to drug me or knock me clean out, I would be freaking out if in a tight spot thinking could get stuck and drown - no thanks. I just hope they all get out safely and no one else gets injured or worse... Godspeed! That's exactly what one of the divers recommend...i agree...mild sedative...less drama 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 (edited) 25 minutes ago, jenny2017 said: Let's see. 2 - 3 km= 2.5 now + 3 + 6 : by 3 = 11.5. Divided by 3 = 3.8333333333333 km. Agreed. Creative. Got your "answer" now work backwards? Edited July 7, 2018 by lvr181 correction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyClifton Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 Quote Boys continue diving training as concerns over health emerge Aren't there concerns for being in the filthy water too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny2017 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 28 minutes ago, yrag said: That's exactly what one of the divers recommend...i agree...mild sedative...less drama The right dosage of Diazepam ( Valium) should do the trick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny2017 Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 13 minutes ago, lvr181 said: Creative. Got your "answer" now work backwards? A rhetorical question, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatVern Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 13 hours ago, DILLIGAD said: The time to take them out is when the cave diving experts say it is safe and not before. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ah... I think clearly we are in a much better position to determine the best time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxcorrigan Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 11 hours ago, lvr181 said: A terrible situation for all. But only those in-charge with specialist advice (some of that may be conflicting) can make the decision. Get them out now, if they can, and risk some loss of life, or leave them in the cave for a longer period of time and still risk some loss of life. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. Finger pointing and blame will happen , either way. Maybe the King can make the decision on advice of the Government because he will be immune (I think/hope) from any repercussions. So is uncle Tu with his blanket amnesty! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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