Some thoughts after the Chiang Rai rescue

[Langsuan Man]

16 minutes ago, DavidAlexander said:

I can only assume the Thia Immigration gestapo will now swoop in and ask for proper visas and work permits from the foreign experts who came to help. Sorry guys, but rules are rules....

I am surprised that the "officials" didn't try and stop any experts from coming in the first place. 

 

Let's not forget the disgrace of the tsunami when Thailand refused the assistance of a US Hospital ship that was near by on it's way to an exercise in Japan , as well as the visa and work permit fiasco cited by the above poster 

[CanuckThai]

Another unsung hero...  

[Antonymous]

5 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

What do you mean "stateless" they are Thai children, what have I missed? can you explain please? are they Burmese?

 

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

I thought this was well known, but it seems to have been put aside during the rescue. I'm certain that the Thai authorities do not want it to come into focus. Foreign media hasn't picked it up until today, but I am hoping that they will run with it now.

 

Ek the asst coach is stateless, as are Dul, Mark and Tee. I know of these four but read somewhere that there are a couple more. Founder of the Wild Boars Club Nopparat has told this to AFP.

 

There is a story in the 'other newspaper' about it today, which I didn't know about when I posted my comment above.

 

"The issue of the boys in the cave should give Thailand a wake up call... to grant the stateless nationality," said Pornpen Khongkachonkiet of Amnesty International Thailand.

[chickenslegs]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

I didn't know that...could you elaborate, or provide a useful link?

This UNHCR report is a good summary.

 

http://www.unhcr.org/news/latest/2016/11/5836af624/overcoming-statelessness-thailand-case-time.html

[JAZZDOG]

11 hours ago, 55Jay said:

The media seizes upon events like this, dramatizing and exploiting them, each outlet raising the suspense-o-meter with increasingly breathless reporting to compete with rival brands for market share.  "Informing the public" becomes a secondary motivation; whether it's ever a primary factor, for some, is debatable.   In the after-after glow, no doubt, media will be nominating their peers for accolades and "best coverage" awards.  Books will be written.  Movies will be made with heart swelling music from Celine Dion, blasting the drama and ratings into outer space, no doubt.  Get while the gettin's good. 

 

Philosophizing by the religious/spiritual types during and after a disaster, capitalizes on the media's efforts to ratchet up emotions, then exploits the entirely predictable weakness, gullibility and chemical withdrawals symptoms, in an equally disingenuous, self-serving way.   They manufacturer doubt where there is none in order to then pose a leading question which suggest some kind of mystical, supernatural intervention, or "super human" powers and ability. 

 

The "God of the Gaps". 

Then there are realist who can objectively look back on an operation and determine what went right and wrong so mistakes can be avoided in the future. This never goes over well with the crowd that spews accolades freely when things go right but are also the first to throw the hangman's knot over a limb when things go south.

 

Let's look at what lined up positively to affect the outcome;

-The coach who looked after the kids

-Vern the Brit cave expert who lived locally who knew the expert divers

-The weather which cooperated in the later portion of the rescue

-The tireless work of all the people on the ground

 

Let's look at what could have gone better and could have been critical if the weather had not cooperated and the anticipated rain materialized. The Governor who was in charge overall seems like a nice enough fellow and all but he has little or no experience in crisis management and is merely a government bureaucrat in a small rural area. Management and control in a crisis this large requires the best and brightest and a person experienced in logistics. Like Apollo 13 he doesn't need to be an expert in all systems, he needs to be able to delegate to the best in all fields of required expertise. 

 

Had the rains came as expected and God forbid lives were lost all questions would point towards why were the kids not brought out earlier during the lull in rainfall. Those questions would lead to was everything done possible to dewater that cave and the question is no. Just as the diving was outsourced so should have been the dewatering. Not until July 5 did the Thai government seek technical advise from the India firm KBL Limited , the foremost authorities on dewatering. Critical time was wasted, photos showing 3-4" pipes attempting to dewater a huge cave. The pumps adequate to do the job still haven't arrived from the Netherlands. The logistics broke down which is often the case when any bureaucracy is involved, not exclusive to Thailand.

 

The lesson learned is pretty clear and that is in times of crisis such as this that Governments, which historically are no good at crisis management, should as early as possible seek out the best experts in Control, logistics and first responders no matter were they come from. In this case we were fortunate the weather cooperated.

 

[whaleboneman]

10 hours ago, Spidey said:

I think you'll find that it's the Jews that regard themselves as the chosen people (and who are we to argue?).

 

Ironically, Cecil Rhodes is a distant relative of mine!

 

Never took part in a masturbatory orgy unless firing our semen up a 6' wall surrounding the outside toilets at school counts. The point of the exercise was to see who could reach the farthest up the wall. Sadly, I was never awarded first prize. Not so much an orgy, more a scientific experiment - well that's my story and I'm sticking to it! (No pun intended).

I'm afraid I know too much about you now to ever take you seriously.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, whaleboneman said:

I'm afraid I know too much about you now to ever take you seriously.

Good man. It would indeed be a serious error of judgment to ever take me seriously.

[tryasimight]

7 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

What do you mean "stateless" they are Thai children, what have I missed? can you explain please? are they Burmese?

 

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

Most were yes 

[cyberfarang]

13 hours ago, 55Jay said:

The media seizes upon events like this, dramatizing and exploiting them, each outlet raising the suspense-o-meter with increasingly breathless reporting to compete with rival brands for market share.  "Informing the public" becomes a secondary motivation; whether it's ever a primary factor, for some, is debatable.   In the after-after glow, no doubt, media will be nominating their peers for accolades and "best coverage" awards.  Books will be written.  Movies will be made with heart swelling music from Celine Dion, blasting the drama and ratings into outer space, no doubt.  Get while the gettin's good. 

 

Philosophizing by the religious/spiritual types during and after a disaster, capitalizes on the media's efforts to ratchet up emotions, then exploits the entirely predictable weakness, gullibility and chemical withdrawals symptoms, in an equally disingenuous, self-serving way.   They manufacturer doubt where there is none in order to then pose a leading question which suggest some kind of mystical, supernatural intervention, or "super human" powers and ability. 

 

The "God of the Gaps". 

My thoughts exactly. I was going to post something similar, but could not have put it so well.

 

True, definitely a lot of hyped up sensationalism to get the most out of this. Wouldn`t surprise me to see cave boy mugs, pens, tee-shirts and video games being sold in the stores soon. In reality, if those boys would have been killed in a land slide, traffic accidents or met their ends in any other less dramatic ways, I doubt if it would have even have made the headlines. But the public love of this type of drama and the media will do their best to keep the drama running until they have thoroughly played it out. 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

personally am upset that they keep saying 12 THAI STUDENTS when 3 of them are stateless, with out thai id cards or identities, but coming from Burma

PLUS the coach is stateless as well;

 

Perhaps they will grant them citizenship and allow them to become  Thai citizens and also the other 480,000 stateless people residing currently in Thailand