Some thoughts after the Chiang Rai rescue

[Brunolem]

After this very successful rescue, it feels as if a big slab of concrete had been removed from our collective chests, so that we can now breathe better and start looking back at these events in a more detached manner.

 

Here are some of thoughts from this morning: 

(Trolls please refrain from hitting the keyboard after reading the first sentence...)

 

1. Chaos theory validated?

 

According to chaos theory, a butterfly flapping its wings somewhere in the world can become the starting point of a chain of events that will eventually result in forming a tsunami at the opposite end of the world.

 

Here we have a small group entering a cave to spend some quality time, being at the origin of what has probably become the largest rescue mission in human history, involving and uniting, one way or another, the whole world!

 

Even a butterfly couldn't do that!

 

2. God, coincidences or pure luck?

 

This successful rescue would not have been possible without a succession of extraordinary "coincidences".

 

First, the coach happened to be one of the few real (former) Buddhist monk, with knowledge of meditation techniques and a superhuman mental strength.

 

Then, the children were wise and mentally strong enough to follow their coach's instructions to the letter, and remain detached enough so that their first worry right after being discovered was...what had happened to their school bags!!!

 

Then, a British cave diver happened to live close to the cave, to know the best cave divers in the world, and last but not least to be able to convince the local authorities to call the cavalry asap.

 

Then, the Chiang Rai governor, who had just been transferred to the North Pole, or something similar, for incompetence (in taking bribes) proved to be the right man at the right place at the right time.

 

Then, one of the cave diving masters also happened to be an anesthesiologist, which was precisely what was required to keep the children from panicking during their terrifying extraction!

 

I mean, what were the odds for such an aligment of stars (literally and figuratively)?

 

3. What's with the number 13?

 

Long ago, Jesus had a nice meal with his 12 apostles, which did him no good, and the meal became known as the last supper...needless to say why...

 

Closer to us, Appo!o 13 was launched at 14.13 (what were they thinking at NASA?) and ended up in a disaster...interestingly enough, those at the origin of the disaster were able to keep their calm and save the day, as did the coach in Chiang Rai...

 

Finally, I won't mention all the victims of Jason Voorhees on Friday the 13th because it's only a movie after all...

 

Considering all this, it may not be a wise choice to play the number 13 at the next lottery...

 

 

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Brunolem

[BobBKK]

 

Or the kids were just being kids and did something they knew was dangerous with their coach (who should have known better) and went into a cave that should have been locked off with better signage. Through skill, and one mans life, they have thankfully been saved. Not much luck at play there and hope Thailand learns a little more about H&S.

[Spidey]

48 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

 

Or the kids were just being kids and did something they knew was dangerous with their coach (who should have known better) and went into a cave that should have been locked off with better signage. Through skill, and one mans life, they have thankfully been saved. Not much luck at play there and hope Thailand learns a little more about H&S.

In the UK, all pots (caves) that may be hazardous (Tham Luang certainly falls into this category) have their entrances gated and locked. Some just appear as a small hole, barely large enough for a man to squeeze through but open out into much larger cave systems. These are secured by the local speleological societies and to gain access you must apply, in advance, to them and prove your capability as a potholer to enter said cave. Also, the party is logged in and out by the keyholder. Larger caves that are open to the public generally have their access controlled by the cave owner. Before entering any cave system it's normal practice to check the weather forecast for the time you plan to be in there from a reliable source (normally the Met Office). Had these basic precautions been followed, none of this would have happened. As for the coach, I can understand him not following any basic safety precautions as this isn't normal practice in Thailand. What really baffles me is why he led them 4km into the cave system, barefoot with no hard hats. If he had only gone as far as the first large cave and had his picnic there he would have easily led the party out when the water started to rise. The route they took was the same as the route used to rescue them, a route difficult enough that, even when dry, should only be attempted by experienced cavers with the appropriate equipment.

Guy was irresponsible and unthinking and seriously endangered the lives of the children in his charge. Personally, I wouldn't want to see him prosecuted as he knew no better but would ensure that he was never put in charge of children again.

Hopefully, the Thai authorities will restrict the access to all caves in Thailand (not just Tham Luang, which is what is currently proposed) but I won't hold my breath.

 

Edited July 11, 2018 by Spidey

[55Jay]

The media seizes upon events like this, dramatizing and exploiting them, each outlet raising the suspense-o-meter with increasingly breathless reporting to compete with rival brands for market share.  "Informing the public" becomes a secondary motivation; whether it's ever a primary factor, for some, is debatable.   In the after-after glow, no doubt, media will be nominating their peers for accolades and "best coverage" awards.  Books will be written.  Movies will be made with heart swelling music from Celine Dion, blasting the drama and ratings into outer space, no doubt.  Get while the gettin's good. 

 

Philosophizing by the religious/spiritual types during and after a disaster, capitalizes on the media's efforts to ratchet up emotions, then exploits the entirely predictable weakness, gullibility and chemical withdrawals symptoms, in an equally disingenuous, self-serving way.   They manufacturer doubt where there is none in order to then pose a leading question which suggest some kind of mystical, supernatural intervention, or "super human" powers and ability. 

 

The "God of the Gaps". 

[pgrahmm]

I hope the local government sets up an interview office -  appointment umbrella system.....Ombudsmen approach to protect/guide those families from the predatory vultures that are about to decend......

 

They should set a 4-6 month moratorium to let the boys/area heal & put a protective barrier around the families....

[Badrabbit]

 

Or the kids were just being kids and did something they knew was dangerous with their coach (who should have known better) and went into a cave that should have been locked off with better signage. Through skill, and one mans life, they have thankfully been saved. Not much luck at play there and hope Thailand learns a little more about H&S.

Shame about learning H&S far to late to save over 40 Chinese tourists from drowning, death means very little in this country!!

 

Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[idman]

This should never have happened in the first place. Equal blame to be shared, the coach, the boys, the staff who were not present at the cave entrance. Add in the media circus, those who just had to show up for a photo op, the unnecessary personel who did more harm than good at the outset and this was just laughable but of course, T.I.T.  so this was to be expected. Now some clown in the Tourism Ministry wants to make this cave a tourist destination???  And yes of course why not reward the boys and their coach for creating this mess by taking them to the World Cup finals??  I am glad this mess had a happy ending.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

In the UK, all pots (caves) that may be hazardous (Tham Luang certainly falls into this category) have their entrances gated and locked.

If only the entire world could be run like the UK wouldn't things be wonderful.

 

In another thread someone babbled on about a common trait of the British being their uncontrollable urge to help those in need.

 

It seems the only common trait of  the British is  a long history of masturbatory orgies of dubious self-praise and  the delusional belief that they are actually the chosen people.

 

 

 

[Badrabbit]

If only the entire world could be run like the UK wouldn't things be wonderful.
 
In another thread someone babbled on about a common trait of the British being their uncontrollable urge to help those in need.
 
It seems the only common trait of  the British is  a long history of masturbatory orgies of dubious self-praise and  the delusional belief that they are actually the chosen people.
 

 
 

What a crazy post!!

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[faraday]

3 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

If only the entire world could be run like the UK wouldn't things be wonderful.

 

In another thread someone babbled on about a common trait of the British being their uncontrollable urge to help those in need.

 

It seems the only common trait of  the British is  a long history of masturbatory orgies of dubious self-praise and  the delusional belief that they are actually the chosen people.

 

 

 

Ohhh, where are they, can I come?

 

[Spidey]

20 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

If only the entire world could be run like the UK wouldn't things be wonderful.

 

In another thread someone babbled on about a common trait of the British being their uncontrollable urge to help those in need.

 

It seems the only common trait of  the British is  a long history of masturbatory orgies of dubious self-praise and  the delusional belief that they are actually the chosen people.

 

 

 

I think you'll find that it's the Jews that regard themselves as the chosen people (and who are we to argue?).

 

Ironically, Cecil Rhodes is a distant relative of mine!

 

Never took part in a masturbatory orgy unless firing our semen up a 6' wall surrounding the outside toilets at school counts. The point of the exercise was to see who could reach the farthest up the wall. Sadly, I was never awarded first prize. Not so much an orgy, more a scientific experiment - well that's my story and I'm sticking to it! (No pun intended).

Edited July 11, 2018 by Spidey

[fantom]

Some excellent posts here though I do take umbrage with the chap who chastised masturbating Poms.

 

There is an aphorism in aviation that a superior pilot uses his superior knowledge to avoid the sort of situations where his superior skills will be required.

 

The question has to be asked, why in the face of ample available information (knowledge ) did they enter the cave (situation) resulting in the need to put the lives of hundreds of rescuers (skills) at risk.

[55Jay]

1 minute ago, fantom said:

Some excellent posts here though I do take umbrage with the chap who chastised masturbating Poms.

 

There is an aphorism in aviation that a superior pilot uses his superior knowledge to avoid the sort of situations where his superior skills will be required.

 

The question has to be asked, why in the face of ample available information (knowledge ) did they enter the cave (situation) resulting in the need to put the lives of hundreds of rescuers (skills) at risk.

The holes seem to line up frequently here. (Swiss cheese).  LOL. 

[HooHaa]

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

In the UK, all pots (caves) that may be hazardous (Tham Luang certainly falls into this category) have their entrances gated and locked. Some just appear as a small hole, barely large enough for a man to squeeze through but open out into much larger cave systems. These are secured by the local speleological societies and to gain access you must apply, in advance, to them and prove your capability as a potholer to enter said cave. Also, the party is logged in and out by the keyholder. Larger caves that are open to the public generally have their access controlled by the cave owner. Before entering any cave system it's normal practice to check the weather forecast for the time you plan to be in there from a reliable source (normally the Met Office). Had these basic precautions been followed, none of this would have happened. As for the coach, I can understand him not following any basic safety precautions as this isn't normal practice in Thailand. What really baffles me is why he led them 4km into the cave system, barefoot with no hard hats. If he had only gone as far as the first large cave and had his picnic there he would have easily led the party out when the water started to rise. The route they took was the same as the route used to rescue them, a route difficult enough that, even when dry, should only be attempted by experienced cavers with the appropriate equipment.

Guy was irresponsible and unthinking and seriously endangered the lives of the children in his charge. Personally, I wouldn't want to see him prosecuted as he knew no better but would ensure that he was never put in charge of children again.

Hopefully, the Thai authorities will restrict the access to all caves in Thailand (not just Tham Luang, which is what is currently proposed) but I won't hold my breath.

 

not the uk.

 

and you have no say regarding the coach.

thank heaven.

[grobec]

Perhaps some credible soul will launch a campaign to raise money in a trust fund in the name of the heroes to fund higher education for the boys.
The idea that THEY are special has already been established. If even one of them grows up inspired to pay back and be special for his country then this inspiring saga may serve to inspire many others as well.


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[Spidey]

29 minutes ago, HooHaa said:

not the uk.

 

and you have no say regarding the coach.

thank heaven.

Yes, in the UK.

Neither do you have any say regarding the coach, or what I say' thank heaven.

[Brunolem]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

In the UK 

 

What really baffles me is why he led them 4km into the cave system, barefoot with no hard hats. If he had only gone as far as the first large cave and had his picnic there he would have easily led the party out when the water started to rise. 

The UK is certainly not an example for the rest of the world and should better focus on its multiple internal problems!

 

What baffles you isn't baffling at all!

They were found deep inside the cave because they were forced to move that far by the incoming flood!

 

What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the TV membership...

 

People who know better, give lessons and of course consider themselves way above the riff raff...

People who follow all the rules and regulations to the letter, who never make mistakes...

People with absolutely no compassion, even for a poor guy who lost both his parents and his brother when he was 10, and that they would like to see sanctioned...

In other words abject people!!!

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, Brunolem said:

What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the TV membership...

You being a prime example?

[Brunolem]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You being a prime example?

Because?

 

I thought my initial post was balanced, certainly not nasty...yet what seems acceptable for some may appear nasty to others...

Edited July 11, 2018 by Brunolem

[Spidey]

Just now, Brunolem said:

Because?

You seem to post nothing but negative posts against other posters. Any negative post against Thais or Thailand and you're on it like a rash.

I read and post on TVF for my own amusement, constant toadying and backslapping is.....boring!

You seem to want to enforce extreme censorship. Are you a member of the military junta by any chance?

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, Spidey said:

 As for the coach...What really baffles me is why he led them 4km into the cave system, barefoot with no hard hats. If he had only gone as far as the first large cave and had his picnic there he would have easily led the party out when the water started to rise. 

"As for the coach...What really baffles me is why he led them 4km into the cave system, barefoot with no hard hats".

He led them 4kms into the cave because it was inundated by floodwater and they had no choice in order to find a safe place to wait.  Their exit (the way they had entered) was blocked by water.

[Brunolem]

2 minutes ago, Spidey said:

You seem to post nothing but negative posts against other posters. Any negative post against Thais or Thailand and you're on it like a rash.

I read and post on TVF for my own amusement, constant toadying and backslapping is.....boring!

You seem to want to enforce extreme censorship. Are you a member of the military junta by any chance?

Difficult to draw conclusions from one of my posts out of more than a thousand...

 

I don't like and want censorship, but I use to defend my positions as much as I feel, and in this specific case, I would be on the coach side whatever his nationality might be.

 

Regarding the topic at hand, I am not convinced that "amusement" is appropriate...

[toofarnorth]

12 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The UK is certainly not an example for the rest of the world and should better focus on its multiple internal problems!

 

What baffles you isn't baffling at all!

They were found deep inside the cave because they were forced to move that far by the incoming flood!

 

What pains me, even though it doesn't baffle me, is the significant number of nasty characters among the TV membership...

 

People who know better, give lessons and of course consider themselves way above the riff raff...

People who follow all the rules and regulations to the letter, who never make mistakes...

People with absolutely no compassion, even for a poor guy who lost both his parents and his brother when he was 10, and that they would like to see sanctioned...

In other words abject people!!!

I'm with you here Brunolem , all this malice against the coach , when I was about 10 yo there was a park nearby and on one side was a wooden fence , the other side were the back gardens of posh houses where we used to go scrumping , over the fence grab the Golden Delicious and back before the bloke sitting in the lounge could reach us with his hammer ,

We didn't wear gloves as protection against smashed fingers , we didn't tell our parents where the apples came from , we just did what kids did before the arrival of the nanny state.

To add to your OP list , I did wonder what if .  What if they had gone somewhere else first and left their bikes 2k away , would anyone have looked in the cave as ' They might be there '. There my 50 Satangs worth.

[Just Weird]

4 hours ago, Badrabbit said:

Shame about learning H&S far to late to save over 40 Chinese tourists from drowning, death means very little in this country!!

Shame about the Chinese owner of the Chinese company that took the Chinese tourists on the boat learning about H&S too late: the death of so many of his compatriots meant very little to him!!

[Odysseus123]

1 hour ago, Suradit69 said:

If only the entire world could be run like the UK wouldn't things be wonderful.

 

In another thread someone babbled on about a common trait of the British being their uncontrollable urge to help those in need.

 

It seems the only common trait of  the British is  a long history of masturbatory orgies of dubious self-praise and  the delusional belief that they are actually the chosen people.

 

 

 

Poor old Cecil...

Fat,unheroic, manipulative and...dead.

[Spidey]

2 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Difficult to draw conclusions from one of my posts out of more than a thousand...

I read a good number of your posts before I came to my conclusion. What I particularly took umbrage with was the rambling diatribe that formed the last paragraph of your post.

[Just Weird]

3 hours ago, idman said:

This should never have happened in the first place. Equal blame to be shared, the coach, the boys, the staff who were not present at the cave entrance. Add in the media circus, those who just had to show up for a photo op, the unnecessary personel who did more harm than good at the outset and this was just laughable but of course, T.I.T.  so this was to be expected. Now some clown in the Tourism Ministry wants to make this cave a tourist destination???  And yes of course why not reward the boys and their coach for creating this mess by taking them to the World Cup finals??  I am glad this mess had a happy ending.

"Add in the media circus, those who just had to show up for a photo op..."

What?  You'd prefer that important events such as this were not reported? 

 

The media did not "turn up for a photo op", they turned up to do their job.  And while you are hypocritically disparaging the media don't forget that you are contributing to it by posting on a media website.

[Brunolem]

4 minutes ago, toofarnorth said:

I'm with you here Brunolem , all this malice against the coach , when I was about 10 yo there was a park nearby and on one side was a wooden fence , the other side were the back gardens of posh houses where we used to go scrumping , over the fence grab the Golden Delicious and back before the bloke sitting in the lounge could reach us with his hammer ,

We didn't wear gloves as protection against smashed fingers , we didn't tell our parents where the apples came from , we just did what kids did before the arrival of the nanny state.

To add to your OP list , I did wonder what if .  What if they had gone somewhere else first and left their bikes 2k away , would anyone have looked in the cave as ' They might be there '. There my 50 Satangs worth.

For me it was not apples and hammer, but cherries and dogs...those were the good old days...

As far as I know, it was not the bikes that revealed their location, but one of their friends who knew that they were in the cave.

[Brunolem]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

I read a good number of your posts before I came to my conclusion. What I particularly took umbrage with was the rambling diatribe that formed the last paragraph of your post.

I would be surprised if you found a bias favoring Thais over farangs in my posts!

Generally, I try to avoid this issue and, from time to time, I have been accused by other members of Thai bashing...go figure...

Edited July 11, 2018 by Brunolem

[Spidey]

Just now, Brunolem said:

I would be surprised if you found a bias favoring Thais over farangs in my posts!

Generally, I try to avoid this issue and, from time to time, I have been accused by other members of Thai bashing...go figure...

Schizophrenia? 555