Defamation/set-up in Thailand concerns

[TRichards]

Hello all at Thaivisa, 

 

I have a current concern and would appreciate some viewpoints. I used to live in Thailand and left two years ago following divorce from a Thai lady. I've booked to return to Thailand for the first time since then for a Christmas holiday in a few months time. 

 

I've received several strange emails in recent days from someone claiming to be my ex-wife's new partner, who appears to have a grudge against me. I don't know his nationality but his English appears to be native. I deleted and thought nothing more about them apart from the most recent, received yesterday. This email claimed that he had been defamed by me on the internet, that the words had been reported to the Thai police, and that I'll be arrested at the airport for questioning if I ever return to Thailand. I've spent the past 36 hours pondering what this is all about.

 

I don't know who he is or what this grudge is about, but it's presumably linked to my ex-wife and is either a bluff or a set up. A friend I spoke to earlier today suggested that he could have defamed himself on a website somewhere using my name and reported it to the Thai police. Could it be as simple as that?? He may even have had access via my ex-wife to an old 12call simcard registered in my name and used that to do it, if that makes any difference (IP addresses etc).   

 

As the hours have passed I've grown increasingly worried. The last thing I want for my Christmas holiday with my new partner is to be detained by the police on arrival in Thailand. Should I take this seriously? Is there anything I can do before arriving at Christmas to check if it's a genuine problem?

 

Many thanks for any opinions or advice. 

[ukrules]

They know you're coming back obviously, how ?

[cornishcarlos]

Go to Vietnam...

[KittenKong]

Sounds more like they are setting you up for some sort of scam to me.

[Laughing Gravy]

I would take a guess and it is just a guess that the person is full of wind. Probably just trying to frighten you to stay away. I wouldn't let  anyone know when your coming back to Thailand or where your staying.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Laughing Gravy

[OJAS]

Hmm, I think that I would urge you to adopt a rather more cautious approach than others have suggested. Defamation is regarded as a criminal, rather than civil, matter here in Thailand. Should your ex-wife's new partner be minded to press charges against you, you would be liable to have your passport seized upon your arrival in Thailand and, hence, unable to leave the country at least until these charges had been either dropped or dismissed. Read what happened recently to Jonathan Head (the BBC's South East Asia correspondent) in similar circumstances in the link below:-

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Head

 

[JTXR]

I guess you need to think about how acrimonious your divorce was and just how vindictive your wife might be willing to be.  Yes, it could just be a bluff to scare you into not coming back to Thailand, or to make you constantly nervous while you're here.  On the other hand, Thailand's defamation laws are such that if your ex and her new partner really want to make life hell for you, they may be able to do so, even if in the end you can prove your innocence.  If you're still in contact with your ex, maybe you could send her an email along the lines of "... You know I didn't defame anyone; why are you doing this....?", hoping for a reply that admits your innocence.

[mstevens]

I'd be tempted to reply to the email and state clearly that you have not defamed anyone and that any accusation of defamation is false.  Go on to say that anyone making a false claim about you would see a counter claim against that person.  Yes, if in Thailand someone makes a contrived claim to the police about you which subsequently proves to be false then you can sue them for that.  It's all a bit silly and such a response seems unnecessary and not the sort of thing one wants to engage in, but maybe it will shut this person up?

[Kwasaki]

7 hours ago, TRichards said:

Many thanks for any opinions or advice.

Firstly strange how you get a email just before your visit back and not before. !!

 

Was your divorce messy or amicable. ?

 

Why didn't you get a new email after the divorce.? 

 

Have you money connections still being paid from your divorce settlement. ?

 

Can you not go to a Thailand embassy and check with them to see if you have an outstanding charge against you filed at a police station.?

 

 

[LongTimeLurker]

7 hours ago, TRichards said:

He may even have had access via my ex-wife to an old 12call simcard registered in my name and used that to do it, if that makes any difference (IP addresses etc).

In which case you would be able to show that you were not in the country at the time and so it was not you using the sim card?

[faraday]

Check the Header on the email, & see if you can determine where it came from.

[TRichards]

8 hours ago, ukrules said:

They know you're coming back obviously, how ?

They don't know. I think it's a case of a jealous new partner of my ex-wife who sees me as a threat to his relationship for some crazy reason and wants me never to return. I talk with my ex wife in a friendly manner once a month or so. Perhaps he saw my latest email to her a couple of weeks ago and lost it.

[TRichards]

4 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I would take a guess and it is just a guess that the person is full of wind. Probably just trying to frighten you to stay away. I wouldn't let  anyone know when your coming back to Thailand or where your staying.

I haven't. He seems to think I'll be arrested at immigration if I ever return, so where I stay is presumably irrelevant. 

[TRichards]

2 hours ago, mstevens said:

I'd be tempted to reply to the email and state clearly that you have not defamed anyone and that any accusation of defamation is false.  Go on to say that anyone making a false claim about you would see a counter claim against that person.  Yes, if in Thailand someone makes a contrived claim to the police about you which subsequently proves to be false then you can sue them for that.  It's all a bit silly and such a response seems unnecessary and not the sort of thing one wants to engage in, but maybe it will shut this person up?

I don't even know his name. The email address is random and he doesn't use a name. I've got nothing to go on. I doubt my ex wife would tell me his name either. 

[TRichards]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

In which case you would be able to show that you were not in the country at the time and so it was not you using the sim card?

Yes I could, but it's the whole being arrested at the airport and carted off for X number of hours or days and the damage that could cause to my new relationship not to mention my holiday that I want to avoid. I've already booked return flights to Bangkok and hotels. I really don't want to have to go to Vietnam or somewhere like this if there's a simple way of finding out if there's a genuine problem.

 

I thought about applying for a Thai police clearance certificate before I go at Christmas but I suspect that only reveals convictions. Anyone know?

[chrisinth]

OP, for the minute anyway before you can further clarify the threat, do not reply to any of the emails from this sender. If it is a wind-up/setup/scam that will only tell them your email account is still active.

 

Keep the emails, all of them if you can (retrieve them from your deleted folder if possible) and have a pdf copy made of them. Carry a hard copy when travelling to Thailand. Would also have a record of random dates to show where you were; I'm assuming that the defamation claims are through social media? This could help with geo location at a later stage if digital proof is forwarded to back the claims by this person/persons.

 

There are legal companies here that can determine if a person is on a blacklist, I would imagine the same companies could check if any charges are against you. I'm sure someone will be along soon to advise on the contact details for said companies.

[TRichards]

3 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

I'm assuming that the defamation claims are through social media?

Sorry, I've no idea where they are, what they are, or if they even exist. 

[CanuckThai]

Sounds like typical Thai male mentality, accompanied with the childish chest pounding.   Keep your communication simple ...but include something like this:

[flyingdoc]

The defamation laws are bizarre, and I would recommend extreme caution.  How did anybody know of your intended return to the Kingdom, and why?

[tubby johnson]

Is he bluffing or telling the truth? One way to find out is by testing him.

 

Politely reply to him: "Hello Mr XXYYZZ, Perhaps we could meet up and discuss amicably what seems to be troubling you. I arrived in Thailand two weeks for my summer vacation and met my ex-wife (your current wife) and had a friendly chat about your attitude. (now he suspects his wife has been cheating on him ?) I had no trouble at immigration and I don't know what your defamation threats are all about (this will wind him up a little and show up his legal impotence ?). I'm currently in the neighbourhood. Please reply to me if you'd like to meet for a few beers in the evening and talk this over."

 

Remain unfailingly polite, and his replies might reveal whether he's sane and a genuine threat or just a little farang drunk in over his head in silly bluffs.

[observer90210]

Get a crooked lawyer and file a defamation case against the other party.

 

I have noticed many Thai's love to make threatful insinuations and bravely hide behind the defamation laws when criticized on public media/trip advisor etc.

[bwpage3]

You give the police way too much credit and think they have nothing to do but investigate these bogus issues? I say 100% nothing to worry about. 

 

The fact he doesn't use a name and a random email should be convincing enough this guy is just blowing smoke.

 

Probably just the fact you are in your ex-wife's life at all is bothering him.

 

A real neurotic tosser that thinks your ex-wife might still like you better than him.

 

I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep over this.

[TRichards]

11 hours ago, tubby johnson said:

Is he bluffing or telling the truth? One way to find out is by testing him.

 

Politely reply to him: "Hello Mr XXYYZZ, Perhaps we could meet up and discuss amicably what seems to be troubling you. I arrived in Thailand two weeks for my summer vacation and met my ex-wife (your current wife) and had a friendly chat about your attitude. (now he suspects his wife has been cheating on him ?) I had no trouble at immigration and I don't know what your defamation threats are all about (this will wind him up a little and show up his legal impotence ?). I'm currently in the neighbourhood. Please reply to me if you'd like to meet for a few beers in the evening and talk this over."

 

Remain unfailingly polite, and his replies might reveal whether he's sane and a genuine threat or just a little farang drunk in over his head in silly bluffs.

That sounds too much like trying to play him at his own game. I'm not twisted like that. I'd much rather simply find out if I'm on an arrest warrant list or not. There must be a way to know.  

[TRichards]

8 hours ago, bwpage3 said:

You give the police way too much credit and think they have nothing to do but investigate these bogus issues? I say 100% nothing to worry about. 

 

The fact he doesn't use a name and a random email should be convincing enough this guy is just blowing smoke.

 

Probably just the fact you are in your ex-wife's life at all is bothering him.

 

A real neurotic tosser that thinks your ex-wife might still like you better than him.

 

I wouldn't lose one wink of sleep over this.

Fair call but I'd prefer to find out the situation and be sure if I can. If this is genuine I can simply avoid Thailand. I'll lose a lot on hotel bookings but I'd hate to be arrested anywhere, especially Thailand.  

[Chou Anou]

11 hours ago, tubby johnson said:

Is he bluffing or telling the truth? One way to find out is by testing him.

 

Politely reply to him: "Hello Mr XXYYZZ, Perhaps we could meet up and discuss amicably what seems to be troubling you. I arrived in Thailand two weeks for my summer vacation and met my ex-wife (your current wife) and had a friendly chat about your attitude. (now he suspects his wife has been cheating on him ?) I had no trouble at immigration and I don't know what your defamation threats are all about (this will wind him up a little and show up his legal impotence ?). I'm currently in the neighbourhood. Please reply to me if you'd like to meet for a few beers in the evening and talk this over."

 

Remain unfailingly polite, and his replies might reveal whether he's sane and a genuine threat or just a little farang drunk in over his head in silly bluffs.

Frankly, I think everyone is for the most part taking this way too seriously...sounds like typical loser farang drunken vindictive crap one gets all the time in Thailand, with possibly the person e-mailing the OP being egged on to do it by a Thai (the ex, possibly, who knows). I don't think there's anything to worry about.

 

That said--I really love your idea in this post!!  "I'm already here in Thailand, let's meet up for a beer..." This would REALLY throw the person off guard and unnerve them. If the OP took you up on this suggestion, I doubt he'd ever hear from the guy again.

[mstevens]

14 hours ago, TRichards said:

I don't even know his name. The email address is random and he doesn't use a name. I've got nothing to go on. I doubt my ex wife would tell me his name either. 

If someone makes a complaint to the Thai police they have to do so under their name.  Their ID card or passport details are recorded and they are noted as the complainant.  An anonymous tipoff about defamation would be ignored.  So if this mystery person does go ahead and make a claim for defamation against you the first thing you would know is who they were.  Given that they have not used a name the whole thing sounds bogus.  Anyone who had a genuine case would not hide behind a nameless email.  It sounds very much like they are simply trying to scare you.  Really, I would not worry about it.

Edited July 12, 2018 by mstevens

[TRichards]

2 hours ago, Chou Anou said:

That said--I really love your idea in this post!!  "I'm already here in Thailand, let's meet up for a beer..." This would REALLY throw the person off guard and unnerve them. If the OP took you up on this suggestion, I doubt he'd ever hear from the guy again.

Thanks but I'm not bothered by hearing from whoever he is. Emails can be ignored, blocked, deleted. I'm bothered by what the Thai police may have been informed and will do upon my arrival at Suvarnabhumi. 

[TRichards]

16 minutes ago, mstevens said:

If someone makes a complaint to the Thai police they have to do so under their name.  Their ID card or passport details are recorded and they are noted as the complainant.  An anonymous tipoff about defamation would be ignored.  So if this mystery person does go ahead and make a claim for defamation against you the first thing you would know is who they were.  Given that they have not used a name the whole thing sounds bogus.  Anyone who had a genuine case would not hide behind a nameless email.  It sounds very much like they are simply trying to scare you.  Really, I would not worry about it.

There's a difference. He's under no obligation to tell me his name in these emails, and hasn't. Which most likely means he's a coward. It's unrelated to giving it to the police when reporting this alleged defamation. So yes, I'd find out his name, when potentially arrested at Christmas. That doesn't help much with trying to avoid being arrested beforehand. 

Edited July 12, 2018 by TRichards

[cornishcarlos]

Pay an unemployed dole bludger to go in your place, using your passport. Obviously a little stage makeup might be needed.

If he gets arrested at the airport, you'll know the threat is genuine ?

[mstevens]

2 hours ago, TRichards said:

There's a difference. He's under no obligation to tell me his name in these emails, and hasn't. Which most likely means he's a coward. It's unrelated to giving it to the police when reporting this alleged defamation. So yes, I'd find out his name, when potentially arrested at Christmas. That doesn't help much with trying to avoid being arrested beforehand. 

I think you are failing to look at the whole picture here.  No, he does not have to tell you his name, but look at the situation objectively: If someone made a criminal complaint about you to police then do you really think they would start sending you anonymous emails about it.  I very much doubt it.  If they emailed you at all there would be zero reason to hide behind a non de plume.  The odds that the person behind the emails has made a complaint to police about you is genuine is very, very slim.....unless there's more to the story and there's something pertinent you're not telling us!