CHANGE? USA Income verification for retirement visa extension Chonburi/Jomtien

[tropo]

7 hours ago, glegolo said:

It is a beutiful fantasiless guess that you make for my part. We have already seen in this thread alone, that there are in fact quite a number of liars among you guys, so tone down  a bit with your guesswork..

 

glegolo

Where are you from? Do you have to show proof to your embassy? I'll bet you do, otherwise, I don't see why you'd be on this bandwagon.

[tropo]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

... and without suggesting it is anyone posting on here, it is also persons who do not have the 'proof' docs to submit to their embassy to receive an extension of stay income letter who are saying: But if I wuz a Yank, I could just lie!

Who is saying that? Give me an example on this forum? It would be a very stupid thing to say.

[JLCrab]

What''s stupid about it? Why should someone who has the docs for UK or Sweden complain?

[poanoi]

2 hours ago, tropo said:

The problem with your theory is that it's not only about pensions. Many have investment income and other sources of income besides pensions. The minimum age to get a retirement extension is 50. How many 50 - 60 years olds collect pensions?

 

... and I'll put money down that people from countries that have to jump through hoops to prove income to their embassies are the ones getting most upset about the others that use stat decs.

i socialized almost exclusively with yanks for 10+ years,

those with pensions did generally not have any additional

income, altho one of them did, a gogo bar in US mind you ?

anyway, almost all of them lied to their embassy on the affidavit,

mostly because it was needed, the vast majority could not meet

requirement. one of them because a mix of convenience

and principals, he wouldnt be arsed with the pension

+ bank combo, and now that i think of it,

many of my american friends were early army veterans retired,

that is to say, they had made it to 50 but not 65,

and taken the army pension

[marcusarelus]

E-6 retires after 20 years is about 1,000,000 baht per year in my experience. 

[glegolo]

47 minutes ago, poanoi said:

i socialized almost exclusively with yanks for 10+ years,

those with pensions did generally not have any additional

income, altho one of them did, a gogo bar in US mind you ?

anyway, almost all of them lied to their embassy on the affidavit,

mostly because it was needed, the vast majority could not meet

requirement. one of them because a mix of convenience

and principals, he wouldnt be arsed with the pension

+ bank combo, and now that i think of it,

many of my american friends were early army veterans retired,

that is to say, they had made it to 50 but not 65,

and taken the army pension

UbonJoe and the rest of you,,, another one in agreement.. , you see now how correct I was.....

 

glegolo

[tropo]

5 minutes ago, glegolo said:

UbonJoe and the rest of you,,, another one in agreement.. , you see now how correct I was.....

 

glegolo

And you know for a fact that all of them didn't have any additional sources of income? You're really stretching for justification for calling most US and Australian ex-pats liars.

[glegolo]

8 minutes ago, tropo said:

And you know for a fact that all of them didn't have any additional sources of income? You're really stretching for justification for calling most US and Australian ex-pats liars.

No absolutely not all of you, but the ones that actually lies..... But too many seems to be in complete denial and rather attacks the messenger, rather than accept the problem....

 

glegolo

[Phuket Man]

Of course a lot of them lie.

It would be rather naive to think otherwise.

Given the opportunity I probably would as well. ?

[tropo]

 

3 minutes ago, glegolo said:

No absolutely not all of you, but the ones that actually lies..... But too many seems to be in complete denial and rather attacks the messenger, rather than accept the problem....

 

glegolo

Why do you think there's a problem?... and why would someone else lying on their stat dec affect you or anyone else?

 

Even in the case that a certain expat fell short of the required amount and overstated his income, it wouldn't be difficult to invent some way to receive the shortfall and make it official. Income documents cannot be verified by the Thai Immigration Officials and in most cases would be meaningless... which would leave the best method of verification showing actual money coming into Thailand... but even that can be fudged. A stat dec (affidavit) IS the best way, and smart government embassies realize this. A lot of people work around the 800 baht in the bank method. There is NO 100% foolproof method.

 

I'm sorry that your government makes you jump through hoops. You should petition them to change their procedures.

[bkk6060]

Any male in his 60's from a developed country who cannot meet the 2k a month or lesser, the combination needs to do some self evaluation rather then blaming Thailand for its requirements.

In reality they have had over 40 years to figure it out, but so many have not.

I understand there can be circumstances that cause financial hardship, but I bet it is mostly lack of planning,  poor judgement, bad decisions and waste.

A shame.

[glegolo]

8 minutes ago, tropo said:

 

Why do you think there's a problem?... and why would someone else lying on their stat dec affect you or anyone else?

 

Even in the case that a certain expat fell short of the required amount and overstated his income, it wouldn't be difficult to invent some way to receive the shortfall and make it official. Income documents cannot be verified by the Thai Immigration Officials and in most cases would be meaningless... which would leave the best method of verification showing actual money coming into Thailand... but even that can be fudged. A stat dec (affidavit) IS the best way, and smart government embassies realize this. A lot of people work around the 800 baht in the bank method. There is NO 100% foolproof method.

 

I'm sorry that your government makes you jump through hoops. You should petition them to change their procedures.

It is the second or third time you are using the word "hoopes". We do not at all see this as an hinder to obtain original-vouchers..... We go online, loging into the website of the pension-institute, or whatever gouverment institution, and print out our income. Bring it to our embassy...

 

If you wish to call that "hoppes",, then it is up to you, but we just laugh and fullfill our obligations. The problem that you do not see, is that "people" outside the bubble you call USA, actually sees what is going on, and the effect will be that all of us will suffer, and have to show both this and that to the thai Immigration.. Don´t you really understand that???

 

glegolo

Edited July 18, 2018 by glegolo

[HampiK]

You never can know what income others have. Even when you say all of my buddies have x-amount this not mean that this is the average!

 

Why?

Because most people life in an environment which they meet people from a similar background (money wise as well). It's not common, that a person who spend 500'000 baht or more has a lot of friends who spend 30'000 baht a month. As how they can meet? they have completely different day activities.

[Thailand J]

25 minutes ago, glegolo said:

It is the second or third time you are using the word "hoopes". We do not at all see this as an hinder to obtain original-vouchers..... We go online, loging into the website of the pension-institute, or whatever gouverment institution, and print out our income. Bring it to our embassy...

 

If you wish to call that "hoppes",, then it is up to you, but we just laugh and fullfill our obligations. The problem that you do not see, is that "people" outside the bubble you call USA, actually sees what is going on, and the effect will be that all of us will suffer, and have to show both this and that to the thai Immigration.. Don´t you really understand that???

 

glegolo

 

 

 

Your embassy letter does not guarantee the accuracy of your declared income anyway, it is just as good as the American Embassy letter, nothing more.

 

Is it that difficult to show the IO what you have shown to your embassy?

 

Please stop complaining about the same thing, unless you can change it.

 

 

[Thailand J]

may be you can learn to live with it.

[garyk]

I've been in Thailand for 10 years. Getting extensions for 8 years. Personally I could care less. I would never move 800,000 baht into a Thai bank. My SS is not but 1750/mo. and my dividends make up the rest of the requirement. But, Thailand is a pain in the neck to get retirement extensions. Even with the letter. 90 day reports? It is a joke IMO.

There are many countries that actually want retirees living their!

Personally I think the 65,000 baht rule is a joke. Thailand is a cheap country to live in. I have been to Mexico extensively, just back from Colombia. The cost is higher their than Thailand and the retirement rules are much easier to meet.

The only difference I see is the women. They are easy and plentiful in Thailand. If not for the easy women, Thailand would be a shit hole for retirees period.  

Thailand is overstocked with tourists, bars, and money is flowing. Thailand does not want retirees!

The only ones that want retirees in Thailand are the women.

Edited July 18, 2018 by garyk

[tropo]

2 hours ago, glegolo said:

It is the second or third time you are using the word "hoopes". We do not at all see this as an hinder to obtain original-vouchers..... We go online, loging into the website of the pension-institute, or whatever gouverment institution, and print out our income. Bring it to our embassy...

 

If you wish to call that "hoppes",, then it is up to you, but we just laugh and fullfill our obligations. The problem that you do not see, is that "people" outside the bubble you call USA, actually sees what is going on, and the effect will be that all of us will suffer, and have to show both this and that to the thai Immigration.. Don´t you really understand that???

 

glegolo

Statutory declarations or affidavits have been used by many embassies for decades. Please explain how that is making anyone suffer? Have you personally suffered any harm other than intense envy? ... and please concentrate... it's not only the USA that uses this particular method for income verification. 

 

Also, as you fail to grasp, it doesn't have to be pension income. It can income from investments or rental income too. It could even be savings that you draw from... 

 

Also, I didn't use the words "hoppes" or "hoopes"... I used "hoops". That's the process that YOU have to go through rather than just rocking up and signing a statutory declaration. If you're happy with the hoops, why continually harp on about how other people that don't have hoops to jump through must be liars.

Edited July 18, 2018 by tropo

[watcharacters]

4 hours ago, poanoi said:

i socialized almost exclusively with yanks for 10+ years,

those with pensions did generally not have any additional

income, altho one of them did, a gogo bar in US mind you ?

anyway, almost all of them lied to their embassy on the affidavit,

mostly because it was needed, the vast majority could not meet

requirement. one of them because a mix of convenience

and principals, he wouldnt be arsed with the pension

+ bank combo, and now that i think of it,

many of my american friends were early army veterans retired,

that is to say, they had made it to 50 but not 65,

and taken the army pension

 

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

E-6 retires after 20 years is about 1,000,000 baht per year in my experience. 

@ marcus

Since you may be a recent new member,   you should understand that  the truth and facts are never allowed as a reason for not posting something.

 

The single rarest thing in SouthEastAsia is the plain truth.

 

Edited July 18, 2018 by watcharacters

[glegolo]

10 minutes ago, tropo said:

Also, I didn't use the words "hoppes" or "hoopes"... I used "hoops". That's the process that YOU have to go through rather than just rocking up and signing a statutory declaration. If you're happy with the hoops, why continually harp on about how other people that don't have hoops to jump through must be liars.

Already answered previously.....

 

glegolo

[KhunFred]

A 1099 document ought to be the "hard proof" that they need. I get one of those every year and so do all retired Americans. It's difficult to imagine that this would not be sufficient, but then we ARE talking about Thailand. ?

[bkk6060]

6 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

A 1099 document ought to be the "hard proof" that they need. I get one of those every year and so do all retired Americans. It's difficult to imagine that this would not be sufficient, but then we ARE talking about Thailand. ?

Can easily be scanned and changed.

[KhunFred]

49 minutes ago, garyk said:

 

There are many countries that actually want retirees living their!

Personally I think the 65,000 baht rule is a joke. Thailand is a cheap country to live in. I have been to Mexico extensively, just back from Colombia. The cost is higher their than Thailand and the retirement rules are much easier to meet.

 

I mostly agree. I have been to Colombia and Costa Rica and their requirements are lower, plus they have universal health care systems that gringoes can buy into. You have nothing like that in Thailand and are unlikely to ever have it. I wouldn't want to be locked into only having 65000 baht to live on. I make a bit more but many things could deplete ones income. I am not sure the costs in Mexico and Colombia are higher. I stayed with a former Pattaya expat for ten days down there and he swore that I could probably get by just as well or cheaper. The health care alone would have made it worth doing, but I have no intention of learning Spanish or any other language, Thailand won on the ease of getting by with only English.

[KhunFred]

1 minute ago, bkk6060 said:

Can easily be scanned and changed.

It is also available online. That CANNOT be scanned and changed if they go to the SS site.

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

I mostly agree. I have been to Colombia and Costa Rica and their requirements are lower, plus they have universal health care systems that gringoes can buy into. You have nothing like that in Thailand and are unlikely to ever have it. I wouldn't want to be locked into only having 65000 baht to live on. I make a bit more but many things could deplete ones income. I am not sure the costs in Mexico and Colombia are higher. I stayed with a former Pattaya expat for ten days down there and he swore that I could probably get by just as well or cheaper. The health care alone would have made it worth doing, but I have no intention of learning Spanish or any other language, Thailand won on the ease of getting by with only English.

Actually I lived cheaper in Colombia than in Thailand. But, for arrivals in Bogota, Cali, etc. It can be pricey. Once I got in the Valley and out of the big cities I was ok. Really same in Thailand. 

I had no problem with getting by in Colombia with only english. In Thailand I know a little Thai so very easy for me. 

IMO Thailand is bursting at the seams with tourists, expats. It is insane. 

I plan on doing some serious soul searching before renewing my visa for Thailand. It is to far from my home in Texas. And the rules for retirement are a pain in the neck.

 

[NanLaew]

3 hours ago, glegolo said:

The problem that you do not see, is that "people" outside the bubble you call USA, actually sees what is going on, and the effect will be that all of us will suffer, and have to show both this and that to the thai Immigration.. Don´t you really understand that???

When you put it like that, no. I STILL can't see why another guy being economical with the truth has ANY impact on you being honest and thus affecting your stay in this blighted realm.

 

Thai immigration SIMPLY wants to see proof of income. Each country has a different way of providing that. But in the end, be it a sworn affidavit or a downloaded statement from an official government pension service, Thai Immigration STILL reserves the right to seek further provenance. You and I, along with many forum members have been around the block long enough to know that what applies to the guy ahead of you in the immigration queue does not have ANY impact on what the same IO is going to seek from you. Same as the IO choosing to break your balls will have any impact on the application from the guy who follows you.

[KhunFred]

20 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

You and I, along with many forum members have been around the block long enough to know that what applies to the guy ahead of you in the immigration queue does not have ANY impact on what the same IO is going to seek from you. Same as the IO choosing to break your balls will have any impact on the application from the guy who follows you.

This is why I dress in my best when I go to Immigration, Long trousers, shirt with a collar and leather shoes (with socks).

They can make it hard on you if you anger or displease them in any way. They are well aware of their power and will not hesitate to use it.

[KhunFred]

47 minutes ago, garyk said:

Actually I lived cheaper in Colombia than in Thailand. But, for arrivals in Bogota, Cali, etc. It can be pricey. Once I got in the Valley and out of the big cities I was ok. Really same in Thailand. 

I had no problem with getting by in Colombia with only english. In Thailand I know a little Thai so very easy for me. 

IMO Thailand is bursting at the seams with tourists, expats. It is insane. 

I plan on doing some serious soul searching before renewing my visa for Thailand. It is to far from my home in Texas. And the rules for retirement are a pain in the neck.

 

I stayed in Pereira. Quite a distance from Bogota but no lack of great restaurants and beautiful, available women. They had some odd rules on mobile phone ownership but I was told that the residency rules for retirees were a breeze. The guy I stayed with was a Vietnam veteran who had previously lived in Pattaya for about five or six years.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, glegolo said:

Already answered previously.....

 

glegolo

You did not explain why it is causing you so much distress, and why it is causing problems for you and others. In fact, you mentioned that you and other people will "suffer". That's pretty extreme. Care to elaborate?

[tropo]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

It is also available online. That CANNOT be scanned and changed if they go to the SS site.

With sufficient skills, most things can be changed and edited. Do you think an officer at the Immigration office will know all the countless different income forms from many different countries in many different languages?

[tropo]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

This is why I dress in my best when I go to Immigration, Long trousers, shirt with a collar and leather shoes (with socks).

They can make it hard on you if you anger or displease them in any way. They are well aware of their power and will not hesitate to use it.

That's totally unnecessary. I'm saying this to help other people who may suffer some stress when a member suggests that one should wear long trousers, a collared shirt, and leather shoes when visiting the Immigration office in Jomtien, in order to get good service.

 

I've been using this office for 12 years. I have never had a problem with a clean T-shirt, dress style shorts (or cargo), and casual (non-leather) shoes with no socks (shorts with socks is not a good look IMO). In fact, if I look around in there, I feel overdressed. I could dress down a notch and still get good customer service there. On average I need to visit the office 6 times a year, with an extra visit if I need a residence certificate or re-entry permit. It's a very relaxed atmosphere there. It's full of tourists, many who look like they just came from the beach. It might be different at other offices in other locations, but Pattaya is a unique place where different rules apply.

 

What's next? A suit and tie?

Edited July 18, 2018 by tropo