CHANGE? USA Income verification for retirement visa extension Chonburi/Jomtien

[ubonjoe]

49 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

For me, my affidavit matches my previous year's annualized income (multiple sources), as reported on my 1040, divided by twelve. I have supporting documents: 1099-R, 1099-SSA, and of course a tax return. But who knows if Immigration will accept those documents.

 

I do not move 65,000 THB every month from the U.S. to Thailand. My local bank balance(s) range from 350,000 to 900,000 throughout the year. I can maintain 800,000, but I just need to plan for that, especially if it has to be seasoned for 90 days.

Everything you listed would be accepted. If the 1099-SSA shows the equivalent of 780k baht annual income that alone would be enough. Or the one thing you did not mention is the notice you get from the SSA in December informing you of your benefits amount for the coming year. The amount that is shows on it is what I put on my income affidavit.

You do not have to move all of the 65k baht into the country every month. The amount you put on your affidavit would be your gross income.

[bkk6060]

42 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

What supporting documentation do you have on hand when you apply for an extension of stay? Has it ever been asked for?

 

I think that many of us are just trying to understand what forms of supporting documentation might be acceptable? 

 

For me, my affidavit matches my previous year's annualized income (multiple sources), as reported on my 1040, divided by twelve. I have supporting documents: 1099-R, 1099-SSA, and of course a tax return. But who knows if Immigration will accept those documents.

 

I do not move 65,000 THB every month from the U.S. to Thailand. My local bank balance(s) range from 350,000 to 900,000 throughout the year. I can maintain 800,000, but I just need to plan for that, especially if it has to be seasoned for 90 days.

 

 

Who knows what supporting documents might be acceptable, since it is not a current requirement to present anything but the letter.

 

But hey, change it and require the world I do not careless. Have no problem what ever they want I can provide as I meet the requirements easily.

[glegolo]

2 hours ago, Get Real said:

I guess the most easy thing is for everybody to prepare for beeing future-proof. Checklist regarding money below:
 

• Income letter if needed
• Clear bankstatements showing the hard proof

This has been long coming. Everybody knows that, and there is no reason to act surprised. The rules clearly state the amount you are required to have yearly or recieve monthly to be able to live on certain visas or extensions in Thailand. It´s nothing new. The ones that have been faking their amounts on income letter that always been ccepted are in for reality-check, and will be exposed or have to clear up their situation. The ones that have been honest and living by the actual rules, will still have a worry-free life. It´s nothing strange with that, and it will not be unfair in any way either.

Yes you are of course right in what you are saying.. But it is the very many of those who lies that makes it so much harder for the rest of us,,, that today do not have to worry abour proof here and there.

 

But it is like the old greeks once said already for 2.500 years ago;  "The laws in a society, mirrors the character of it´s citizens....."

 

glegolo

Edited July 13, 2018 by glegolo

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, glegolo said:

But it is the very many of those who lies that makes it so much harder for the rest of us,,, that today do not have to worry abour proof here and there.

I think you might find that there are not all that many people who "lie" as your post states. I find your claim an exaggeration with no proof to back it up.

If you have had to show the proof once to get one then it should not be that hard to show it one more time when you apply for an extension.

[Time Traveller]

If you've ever had to do a US tax return, you'll quickly know that money coming into a bank account, in no way resembles your actual "income" for tax purposes. Therefore, the only proof of income is your annual tax form

Edited July 13, 2018 by Time Traveller

[Get Real]

36 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you might find that there are not all that many people who "lie" as your post states. I find your claim an exaggeration with no proof to back it up.

If you have had to show the proof once to get one then it should not be that hard to show it one more time when you apply for an extension.

Actually, I this case I must agree with glegolo. Only around where I stay, there is actually about 3-4 persons I know well. I also know that they do not have the means for living in Thailand on their respective retirement extensions if push comes to show. That is about 10-12% of all the foreigners that live permantently in the same area.

Ok, if that can be considered much or not it´s of course an individual judgement. Not saying that you are wrong, it can be just around here it is an over represented group.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Actually, I this case I must agree with glegolo. Only around where I stay, there is actually about 3-4 persons I know well. I also know that they do not have the means for living in Thailand on their respective retirement extensions if push comes to show. That is about 10-12% of all the foreigners that live permantently in the same area.

Ok, if that can be considered much or not it´s of course an individual judgement. Not saying that you are wrong, it can be just around here it is an over represented group.

I agree with you too, I mean the US does not check a thing so it might be a crime... but that is not important at all if there is no real enforcement (no further checking). So even though it there is a penalty its a non issue as there are no checks. If immigration checks they wont notify the US goverment about the breach of the laws, just refuse the extension. So its a relative safe way to cheat.

 

I too have heard from a few Americans that i know that they just make up an amount and be done with it. Anyway its up to the Thai immigration to sort it out. I think if the abuse becomes too high they will make up new rules for sure.

[Carib]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I think you might find that there are not all that many people who "lie" as your post states. I find your claim an exaggeration with no proof to back it up.

If you have had to show the proof once to get one then it should not be that hard to show it one more time when you apply for an extension.

I am sorry ubonjoe, but I don't agree, of course it is hard to back it up without being a snitch, personally i know a few americans who do lie and some of them are even stupid enough to braq about it. 

Even the fact that a topic like this and the other one running causes a bit of a stir says enough me thinks. 

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, robblok said:

I agree with you too, I mean the US does not check a thing so it might be a crime... but that is not important at all if there is no real enforcement (no further checking).

It certainly not a crime for them not to ask for a verification of the income. There is no Thai law that says they have to. For the US the consular section is not allowed to verify anything according to regulations they work under.

FYI the US embassy and consulate are not the only ones that do not ask for proof. There are several others that do not ask for proof for the same reason.

[Get Real]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

I agree with you too, I mean the US does not check a thing so it might be a crime... but that is not important at all if there is no real enforcement (no further checking). So even though it there is a penalty its a non issue as there are no checks. If immigration checks they wont notify the US goverment about the breach of the laws, just refuse the extension. So its a relative safe way to cheat.

Thanks! Here is the deal. That the US/Embassy do not check is not a crime according to the US laws. They are not obligated to check that the information they comfirm is actually true and can be proven. The only thing they do is put their stamp to it. The US citizen is still the one that is solely resposible for the information. Therefore he can actually be charged by his own embassy and country for providing false information to be stamped by the embassy.

The problem here is also that if Immigration would like to check if the information on the created income letter is true or false, the US laws will put a stop to that. They do not have access or the authority to make such a request of information. Therefore their only chance to have a slight possibility to check if the information provided in the income letter is true, is to ask for bank statement to act as proof of the given amount. Anyhow, I will suspect that it all leads to nothing, due to that the bankstatement will also be possible to falsify, and after only get it stamped by the US embassy.

[robblok]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It certainly not a crime for them not to ask for a verification of the income. There is no Thai law that says they have to. For the US the consular section is not allowed to verify anything according to regulations they work under.

 FYI the US embassy and consulate are not the only ones that do not ask for proof. There are several others that do not ask for proof for the same reason.

I mean its a crime to swear to a false statement. (crime of the expat doing so)

 

[robblok]

2 minutes ago, Get Real said:

Thanks! Here is the deal. That the US/Embassy do not check is not a crime according to the US laws. They are not obligated to check that the information they comfirm is actually true and can be proven. The only thing they do is put their stamp to it. The US citizen is still the one that is solely resposible for the information. Therefore he can actually be charged by his own embassy and country for providing false information to be stamped by the embassy.

The problem here is also that if Immigration would like to check if the information on the created income letter is true or false, the US laws will put a stop to that. They do not have access or the authority to make such a request of information. Therefore their only chance to have a slight possibility to check if the information provided in the income letter is true, is to ask for bank statement to act as proof of the given amount. Anyhow, I will suspect that it all leads to nothing, due to that the bankstatement will also be possible to falsify, and after only get it stamped by the US embassy.

Yes that is what i said, the US embassy does not check it at all.. and yes they can be charged but it wont happen as the US does not check it and the Thai immigration if they check it and find out that there is no proof won't signal the US embassy about this. So basically there is almost no risk in doing so besides not getting your extension if they do check. 

 

 

[bkk6060]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes that is what i said, the US embassy does not check it at all.. and yes they can be charged but it wont happen as the US does not check it and the Thai immigration if they check it and find out that there is no proof won't signal the US embassy about this. So basically there is almost no risk in doing so besides not getting your extension if they do check. 

 

 

You are correct.

I guess a possible risk is if someone has some sort of legal issues and they do a background on his obtaining a Visa.

Pretty remote possibility, but one never knows.

[Carib]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

Yes that is what i said, the US embassy does not check it at all.. and yes they can be charged but it wont happen as the US does not check it and the Thai immigration if they check it and find out that there is no proof won't signal the US embassy about this. So basically there is almost no risk in doing so besides not getting your extension if they do check. 

 

 

There is the risque for those who are skint, and have always lied. What will they do now to proof that they are eligible for an extension if asked for supporting evidence ? 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Carib said:

There is the risque for those who are skint, and have always lied. What will they do now to proof that they are eligible for an extension if asked for supporting evidence ? 

The risk is that they don't get a visa, but they would not have gotten that visa anyway without a false statement. Immigration will only deny the visa (maybe put a mark down for next time for extra checks). 

 

Anyway just pointing out the weaknesses in the system nothing more. 

[mtls2005]

For those who have to provide documentation of the 65,000 THB/month "income", and if the Embassy does not provide the affidavit option, what documents do you provide? How are these authenticated such that they are acceptable to Thai Immigration?

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

For those who have to provide documentation of the 65,000 THB/month "income", and if the Embassy does not provide the affidavit option, what documents do you provide? How are these authenticated such that they are acceptable to Thai Immigration?

That varies for each embassy or consulate that does it. For some it is just bank statements for proof while others want proof of a pension or both.

Some countries also do not them or will only do them for state pension income that they can verify.

[JLCrab]

32 minutes ago, Get Real said:

<snip>
The problem here is also that if Immigration would like to check if the information on the created income letter is true or false, the US laws will put a stop to that. They do not have access or the authority to make such a request of information. <snip2>

What US laws?

[jmd8800]

Simply put the income affidavit breaks down to this:

1) the person makes a statement, in this case income per month) and swears that this statement is true.

2) the embassy/consulate 'notarizes' that the person making this statement is who they say they are.

 

 

[Get Real]

21 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

What US laws?

The ones regarding disclosure and confidentiality of a US citizens pension or private income. Even in the US, this is very hard to get information about for many instances and companies that would really need it.

[ubonjoe]

Another inflammatory post has been removed. A repeat may result in a formal warning.

Edit: And some baiting and bickering posts that need to end as well.

Edited July 13, 2018 by ubonjoe

[55Jay]

Curious about Embassies that require their citizens to provide proof of the amount claimed on the income affidavit. 

 

Do these Embassies actually check and verify each and every affidavit back in the home country?   Does anyone actually know?

 

Realize all won't be the same, but I have questions about how it's done, and by whom. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by 55Jay

[JLCrab]

The UK Embassy - Bangkok says re Consular Letter Confirming Pension/Income for Retirement Visa

 

We will provide your letter within 10 working days

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671934/Pension_04_01_2018.pdf

[glegolo]

48 minutes ago, 55Jay said:

Curious about Embassies that require their citizens to provide proof of the amount claimed on the income affidavit. 

 

Do these Embassies actually check and verify each and every affidavit back in the home country?   Does anyone actually know?

 

Realize all won't be the same, but I have questions about how it's done, and by whom. 

What concerns Sweden, they demand an original document from the swedish gouverment, or pension-institute or whatever income-institure or company it is,,, confirming the income in question.

 

I do not think the embassy actually check this original document. So YES a driven IT-guy probably can get away with falsify a income-document I think.

 

But our embassy do NOT accept a random swedish guy, popping up there promising this and that, and swearing to this and that.

 

glegolo 

 

[Thailand J]

40 minutes ago, glegolo said:

What concerns Sweden, they demand an original document from the swedish gouverment, or pension-institute or whatever income-institure or company it is,,, confirming the income in question.

 

I do not think the embassy actually check this original document. So YES a driven IT-guy probably can get away with falsify a income-document I think.

 

But our embassy do NOT accept a random swedish guy, popping up there promising this and that, and swearing to this and that.

 

glegolo 

 

 

US embassy notarize the affidavit. The letter clearly says the income has not been verified.

 

Why do YOU have so much problem with that???

“People often grudge others what they cannot enjoy themselves.”~ Aesop

 

 

 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

The UK Embassy - Bangkok says re Consular Letter Confirming Pension/Income for Retirement Visa

 

We will provide your letter within 10 working days

 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/671934/Pension_04_01_2018.pdf

In my experience, you post it off EMS on Monday, you get it back by EMS before the weekend - 5 days tops. They also email you when it's been issued, typically the same day they receive your paperwork.

 

Since I am not a pensioner (yet), they accept original bank statements as well as downloaded and printed copies of them.

Edited July 13, 2018 by NanLaew

[JLCrab]

So apparently the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs has no worldwide policy that it will not attest to the authenticity or veracity of the information contained in any document presented to it in Thailand or anywhere else.

 

The US Department of State does. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by JLCrab

[ubonjoe]

More baiting and bickering posts have been removed. Time to end it.

[JLCrab]

I do not make the rules for US Department of State policy. I just follow the rules as best as I can.

 

And it gets wearisome to have to listen to the drone of You Americans cheat. What you Americans do isn't fair. You Americans can just lie and make up any number you want. Why should you Americans have it different from anybody else. Etc.

 

Whether some actually do this or not, plenty do not. They state their incomes honestly.

[Thaidream]

As I have pointed out several times already-Thai Immigration does from time to time require additional information from certain applicants that is out of the ordinary from the usual procedure.

 

As UJ has already stated- it has nothing to do with the  Nationality of the applicant. It  could be the officer wants to rule out an issue; it could be the IO is in a bad mood; it could be the IO doesn't like how you talked to him; It could be for any sundry reasons.

 

The solution- Provide any necessary documentation and proof if asked..  Most people give their incomes honestly whether they are from America or Armenia.