Must Read British cave diver slams Elon Musk’s submarine idea as nothing more than PR stunt

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Yep, Vern is a hero. But he could be a little more gracious. I think Musk truly thought he could help. And no one outside of the divers knew the configuration of the cave.

 

So maybe his sub would've been useless but give Musk credit for trying. He's not so dumb as to try to insert himself into a life and death crisis only for the PR.

I agree entirely. He got up and did something when he really didn't need to bother at all.

 

I really don't like the Musk bashing that I'm seeing. It's pure ugly.

[hgma]

Lets concentrate on the gladiators who made this rescue possible.

[Westering]

Even if Musk's rescue canister could be taken all the way in (and I don't think it could) it's not self-propelled; divers have to lug it through those passages up slopes and down. I don't think the round-trip taking it in to the survivors and back out again would be easy or quick. Keep in mind, only one kid at a time can be transported out in it. On the first day the round-trip was said to be about 11 hours but 4 boys were brought out during the course of that day. Using Musk's "solution" it would have taken at least 44 hours to get 4 boys out. On the last day they got it down to a 7 hour round trip and they got 5 survivors and all the rescuers out during that day. They had a relay with the survivors moving through the cave simultaneously; a system that worked with remarkable efficiency. With the Muskpod it would be a one-at-a-time 35 hour effort to get 5 survivors out. Everybody knew the rain was coming and time was limited.

Hard to believe Musk is any sort of engineer at all. He's seems more of a PT Barnum style promoter.

Yes, good thing they didn't interrupt the operation to give this guy a chance to try his toy.

[TumblinDice]

Check your criticism at the door Vern. I'm sure Elon Musk needs no PR advertisement & was only offering to be of help if needed (much like you were). He was not familiar with the cave passageways & given that at first it was not advisable to dive the boys out, a mini sub may have been useful. 

Now lets see how many times you brag about being involved & slapping your own pr recognition on the bar for bragging rights. Seems your already at it.

Edited July 14, 2018 by TumblinDice

[dorchester]

A interview with CNN,god what a joke of a news organization

[Hummin]

@canopy

 

Bother to make any comments now? 

[Artisi]

8 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Yep, Vern is a hero. But he could be a little more gracious. I think Musk truly thought he could help. And no one outside of the divers knew the configuration of the cave.

 

So maybe his sub would've been useless but give Musk credit for trying. He's not so dumb as to try to insert himself into a life and death crisis only for the PR.

Come on now, a quick read of a few posts, look at a few sketches depicting the cave layout even a 5 year old kid could tell you the sub was completly useless. 

No credit due.

 

[Mikey421]

There you have it, the truth.
 
They genuinely don't consider themselves as heroes. The rest of the world does.

Most real heroes don’t ask for praise, their work stands as their reward.


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[Tompa]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

He was encouraged by Rick Stanton to continue, though their communications appeared to stop once the rescue mission started. 

 

Probably not so useful to him if he's already living here and on yearly visa extensions. 

Someone might have already posted this,,

 

[canopy]

25 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Bother to make any comments now? 

 

It is a shock to hear Vern say the sub wouldn't fit when the design was driven by Dick Stanton's (co-leader of the dive rescue team) specifications. So did Stanton deliberately mislead Elon or not have accurate information? Seems unlikely and the emails have been released by Elon to defend the design as being completely practical.

 

Why is Vern so livid with Elon? Why would he say "He can stick his submarine where it hurts"? Why would he say it wouldn't have made it past the first 50 meters when Elon himself was walking around in the cave past 50 meters? And Vern claiming Elon was told to leave the cave quickly does not make sense when Elon was granted entrance unless of course it was Vern himself who did the asking. So on one side you have Elon who consulted the experts in Thailand to make a suitable design and cared enough to show up in person. On the other side a profanity laden rant from a very respectable person.

 

[Johnnyondaspot]

10 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Well, that was a fairly frank discussion of what was possible and what was a waste of time. Good job that experienced people were listened to, rather than pander to fantasy and PR gimmicks. It is really sad that the genuine heroes of the story have played their role down, while some others will use a life or death tragedy for promotion, with no idea of what was even halfway feasible. Thank You, Vern, for setting things straight.

 

11 hours ago, Hummin said:

Auch ?

 

Respect

 

[Johnnyondaspot]

6 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

Lordie, Musk's one of the most successful entrepreneurs on the planet, Tesla, Space X, ... Of course, when you're pushing the envelope on engineering you're going to run into issues.

 

Little people like you and me have little problems, billionaire businessmen have really big ones. Little people have internet forums to vent their frustration with their little lives, billionaires can deploy thousands of engineers to fix a bug and then retreat to a yacht to unwind.

 

Life ain't fair. Deal with it.

No truer words typed.  (Simple people = Simple minds)

[Kinnock]

I hope the movie version shows how a self serving businessman used a crisis to run a PR stunt.

Many local businesses gave equipment, food and other supplies to the operation - and I didn't see them trying to get cheap advertising.

 

But with removal of the subsidy in China on his coal powered, self crashing cars, I expect him to go bankrupt soon anyway.

Edited July 15, 2018 by Kinnock

[BobBKK]

I'd be more worried if Stanton, who led the rescue, had said this not a local farang. Thank you for taking part Mr. Unsworth but I'd suggest you zip it and not ruin the respect you have received.  

 

Thank you Elon for trying to do something to help and good luck with SpaceX. You are a genius in Tesla mold. 

 

 

[Johnnyondaspot]

1 minute ago, BobBKK said:

I'd be more worried if Stanton, who led the rescue, had said this not a local farang. Thank you for taking part Mr. Unsworth but I'd suggest you zip it and not ruin the respect you have received.  

 

Thank you Elon for trying to do something to help and good luck with SpaceX. You are a genius in Tesla mold. 

 

 

Amen.

[Kinnock]

11 minutes ago, Johnnyondaspot said:

This is Musk's response...

 

So how did the mail, which so colourful reflects the heartfelt concerns of the magnanimous genius, become public? Who made the press statements? Why was a video of trials in a swimming pool made public during the rescue?

 

All just expensively managed PR fluff - like putting cars in rockets.

[BEVUP]

Nothing no one knew

His bag would of been better, if practical 

[Hummin]

I just want to say both type of people is necessery to push the limits for the better, but still it is two different types and backgrounds. 

 

I just guess it was not the time and place for Musk to show up, and use his mediapower! Good idea if only option and if it would fit in the passages, and the kids had to stay there 3-4 months. Then they would have time to test it properly. 

 

Edited July 15, 2018 by Hummin

[Mikey421]

This was Musk's response...
 

I wasn’t talking about Mr. Musk, I was referring to the SEALs and the cave divers who conducted the recce and the rescue efforts.


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[shenanigans997]

Yeah, I’m not understanding this guy slamming EM in the media at all, especially if he’s an expierenced cave diver or a diver involved in rescues. 

 

The number one issue would be panic and spitting out the reg and heading for a surface that doesn’t exist.  Had the rain continued which was expected, most if not all of the cave may have been flooded requiring several hour trips underwater.  Changing out a tank in zero visability means taking out the reg in the dark and putting in another and setting the tank back in some position, nearly impossible for the inexperienced, even with assistance. They will panic at some point. 

 

They are are extremely fortunate the rain stopped and the water level came down like it did so they only needed to do shorter interrupted dives.  Musk nor anyone else should have presumed this, hence the work on the sub.  It was noted the sub could not turn corners, well neither could the gurney rig the kid came out in and it was roughly the same size.

 

The reality is, had it kept raining that sub may have been the only longshot at saving their lives and it is quite foolish for an expirenced diver to say otherwise.  Clearly there was no perfect solution given the variables, I consider it irresponsible to call out any attempt at creating a method of rescue. I can’t help wonder who might have wanted attention more in this case.  Rescue personnel shun the media and most certainly would never be critical of any attempt to assist however ineffective it may end up being. 

 

 

[BEVUP]

3 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Then they would have time to test it properly. 

Would never have worked, as mentioned

[monkfish]

Oh dear such a pity its an unprofessional thing to say makes the British divers look bad.

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[shenanigans997]

32 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'd be more worried if Stanton, who led the rescue, had said this not a local farang. Thank you for taking part Mr. Unsworth but I'd suggest you zip it and not ruin the respect you have received.  

 

Thank you Elon for trying to do something to help and good luck with SpaceX. You are a genius in Tesla mold. 

 

 

Stanton left the caves without even acknowledging the media, from the very beginning Unsworth sought out the media.......that’s about all anyone needs to know. 

[Kinnock]

4 minutes ago, monkfish said:

Oh dear such a pity its an unprofessional thing to say makes the British divers look bad.

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It's an honest and forthright opinion.  Another British trait.

 

[monkfish]

British trait give me break? It's rude and unprofessional comment and drags the whole Brit team down.

It's an honest and forthright opinion.  Another British trait.

 

 

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[Hummin]

29 minutes ago, BEVUP said:

Would never have worked, as mentioned

Well, with that attitude, we would never drill after oil and gas, or go to the space in the first place! 

 

I said if time was not an factor, it could have been worked out with an device, and I give Musk credit for doing something, and not just sit and wait! There is no bad ideas when you have situations like this!

 

I have been part of complicated operations and expeditions, where poeple have doomed every idea we had, and Im still walking and talking!   Some would say to much, but I could care less about that. 

 

The impossible just take longer time! 

 

However I admire the british divers and everyone else taking part and not to forget the decission makers, who obvious did the right thing there and then. 

[Mickmouse1]

Failing to offer genuine help right at the beginning, I thought he will send a private jet to whisk the kids to Moscow to watch the W.C Final??

[happy chappie]

There you go,when I was calling him a fraud and 21st century delorean I got some crap of some of the other members,now he's been exposed.i said he was only going to get in the way of an operation that had nothing he could help with.

[yellowboat]

14 hours ago, Jonathan Fairfield said:

Mr Unsworth explained that because the submarine was 5ft 6 long and rigid it would have been unable to go round the obstacle and tight passageways inside the cave.

Though this man's contribution saved lives, it sounds like Musk just go it wrong and like others, he gave it a try.  He deserves the benefit of the doubt.  Sadly every notable tweets now a days. 

 

I will say that I find the Silicon Valley boys who contemplate WWED, "what would Elon do", nauseating.    Musk since starting the global monopoly paypal, has received numerous government handouts for his current businesses.   For being the driving force behind paypal and showing up in Thailand, he deserves credit.   For SpaceX and Tesla, not so much. 

[Dianna]

Thanks, I think he was trying to help in good faith.