Expats who want to leave, if they could

[TRichards]

On 7/18/2018 at 5:33 AM, possum1931 said:

Maybe for some people, but for others whose family have no room to take them in, how easy is it to get a small flat or bedsit to rent if you want to go back to the UK? I remember ie, years ago there were bedsits to rent advertised in most newsagents windows, but not any more.

All online now https://www.spareroom.co.uk/

[fellig]

17 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

 I think one of the tricks to being happy here is living in either a rural area, or a smaller town. Life in Bangkok, Pattaya, and Phuket or Samui is a lower quality life than elsewhere, in my opinion. Of the four, I would choose Bangkok, which is a great city. But crowded, expensive, and alot of traffic, etc.

Kind of off-topic, but I'm curious about recommended rural areas and small towns in LOS. I've spent a few months in Chiang Mai, which I like a lot (especially a bit north of the Old City, away from most of the tourists), but don't know about other areas (other than BKK, which I'm not crazy about). 

[worgeordie]

5 hours ago, TRichards said:

I've never understood attitudes like this. You aren't comparing the countries, you're comparing the success you had at finding happiness in each. 

So are you saying I should return to UK,after 30 years living here,

and be miserable in the UK,don't understand why you think i would.

regards worgeordie

[Nemises]

Even if I wanted to, I can’t go back home (Australia) because I don’t speak Mandarin or Arabic.

[pgrahmm]

7 hours ago, TRichards said:

I've never understood attitudes like this. You aren't comparing the countries, you're comparing the success you had at finding happiness in each. 

Betting it's one & the same....

[altcarrbob]

I know where I would be happier ,and it ain't here. Yes have companion here,but its accommodation in UK that is the problem,dingy bedsit costing a fortune.Thought about Spain,cheap there too,may eventually give that a shot

Edited July 20, 2018 by altcarrbob
dup

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

So are you saying I should return to UK,after 30 years living here,

and be miserable in the UK,don't understand why you think i would.

regards worgeordie

Just came back from the UK (2-3 months ago). Been thinking about why I left again and concluded:-

It's the cold, the rain and general hopelessness of the (native) population that gets to me.

The older people are happy enough, they have somewhere to live, though worthwhile jobs have all but disappeared from the general population. The youngsters are looking at a life with no prospect of their own home, no regular employment (zero hour contracts), no savings and no pensions (apart from government jobs, all the occupational pensions have gone), and very little prospects of a lasting marriage and family.

 

In Thailand, the weather is always warm, and everyone that wants to can work and afford somewhere to live. Most of the youngsters are pretty upbeat about their futures. 

Edited July 20, 2018 by BritManToo

[worgeordie]

11 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Just came back from the UK (2-3 months ago). Been thinking about why I left again and concluded:-

It's the cold, the rain and general hopelessness of the (native) population that gets to me.

The older people are happy enough, they have somewhere to live, though worthwhile jobs have all but disappeared from the general population. The youngsters are looking at a life with no prospect of their own home, no regular employment (zero hour contracts), no savings and no pensions (apart from government jobs, all the occupational pensions have gone), and very little prospects of a lasting marriage and family.

 

In Thailand, the weather is always warm, and everyone that wants to can work and afford somewhere to live. Most of the youngsters are pretty upbeat about their futures. 

I have never been back to UK for 30 years,the culture shock would do my head

in I think,a stranger in my own land, I am quite happy to potter about here,with

nothing but a sarong and flip flops,except when I go out ,I have never had a pair

of shoes on,for years and years,ditto jacket, for the few days it's "cold" here,i

can really feel it,a winter would finish me off i think.the only thing I miss is

the British countryside.

regards worgeordie

[ginjag]

5 hours ago, fellig said:

Kind of off-topic, but I'm curious about recommended rural areas and small towns in LOS. I've spent a few months in Chiang Mai, which I like a lot (especially a bit north of the Old City, away from most of the tourists), but don't know about other areas (other than BKK, which I'm not crazy about). 

Try Udon,  near the second biggest city, climate good, having a WINTER,  rail, bus, and a big airport. Lowest cost of living areas,  super 3 bed air con, garden, near city,   7,000 baht monthly.    Immigration good,  has mega shopping mall.

[Weasel100]

Well, for a start I have to say that I do have a lot of sympathy with many of the comments above about the disappointment that often seems to overtake our dreams of a new life in Thailand. To that extent, I am glad that I'm far from being alone in my own disappointment.

Before I moved to Thailand just shy of seven years ago, I had been to this country on holiday some 13 times I think. I thought at the time I moved that I knew the Thai people quite well. I had found them friendly and mostly helpful when I was on holiday here but soon after I moved here and bought a house, I came to see the Thais for what I believe they generally are. It is possible I believe to point to a national character, some characteristic or characteristics which, generally speaking, the people of a particular country most often exhibit to some extent or other. The Germans I believe have a well deserved reputation for brusqueness if not outright rudeness, the French for being haughty and stand-offish, Australians for being a bit crude. You get the picture.

Since I moved to Thailand, I have frequently been deceived and misled. Thais have told me bare-faced lies on many occasions and I have been ripped off more times than I care to remember. This lying, deception and misleading is always related to money and it is therefore my conclusion that the very, very great majority of Thais are interested in only three things in life - money, money and money and that they really don't care how they get it, especially from all of us rich falangs. And we are in their eyes all rich and ripe for f*cking over.

Of course there are people in our home countries (I'm from Australia) who rip people off but I would suggest that where the number of liars and shysters in Australia may be say 5 per cent, the percentage would probably be closer to 80 per cent of Thais who are happy to lie to and deceive falangs to get money out of them.

Thankfully, my Thai wife is one of what I believe are the remaining 20 per cent of honest and decent Thais. We genuinely love each other very much but, even in our relationship, there is no question that what I can do to help my wife and her family financially is a part of the success of our relationship.

From time to time, when Thais try to rip me off or when they lie to me and try to deceive me to get money out of me, I get incredibly angry and start ranting about how I wish I could go back to Australia for what was, at least in some ways, the better life that I had there. But, I am emotionally committed to my lovely wife and heavily committed financially in Thailand so it is not a realistic option for me to return to Australia to live on a pension which would go nowhere near as far there as it does in Thailand.

My disappointment with Thailand is manifold. Things that are taken for granted in Australia and much of the rest of the Western world simply don’t happen in Thailand or are simply given lip service here. These things that are taken so much for granted in the Western world include:

1  consumer protection laws – they exist in Thailand I believe but few retailers know about them so that when we wish to return or exchange an item bought even from some well known retailers, we often have to have an unnecessary argument and are often told that it’s not possible
2  driver safety – Thailand is generally agreed to be the most dangerous country in the world in which to drive. Driver training and enforcement of speeding laws are practically non-existent and enforcement of drink driving and traffic laws is generally subject to bribery and corruption. The effect of this is millions of lethally dangerous drivers on Thai roads. They are often drunk, under the influence of other drugs, they drive way too fast and way too close to other vehicles and they have neither the knowledge or the desire to drive safely or responsibly
3  occupational health and safety laws exist in Thailand but, again, they rarely appear to be enforced. Hard hats are generally worn on building sites but other forms of safety protection such as ear muffs, welders’ masks and proper safety footwear rarely appear to be used. Again, it’s all a matter of lip service with no real desire to protect workers.

Let me ask you a question. How many others out there have travelled in other countries in Asia and SE Asia in the past few years? I have been to Indonesia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Burma, South Korea, Mongolia, Hong Kong and Macao (China of course) and Cambodia. Thailand is way behind many (or possibly all) of those countries in its acceptance of Western values and practices and will, in my opinion, remain much closer to the Third world than to the West unless it begins to take actions very soon such as have been taken in South Korea and Malaysia in particular. Thailand has a lot of potential but it needs to accept that Western ways, while not always the best ways, are most often better if it is to progress with the rest of SE Asia and not get left behind as has been happening here for a long time.

The greatest thing that Thailand could do to improve its chances of a prosperous future is to start taking English language training seriously. I would suggest that fewer than 10 per cent of Thais have anything more than a couple of words or phrases of English. My wife tells me that Thais are taught English in school but you’d really never know it. She also tells me that Thais generally don’t like to speak English because they’re “shy”. The whole world knows (except possibly Thailand) that English truly is the international language these days and that a knowledge of English and an ability to speak it reasonably well is the single most important thing that any country can do to assist its economic growth and its place in the world.

I wish I could be more positive about this country where I came to settle some seven years ago but there is so much that just drives me mad here that it has unfortunately detracted greatly from my enjoyment of life in Thailand.

And before anyone tells to me that I should just ***k off back to Australia if I’m unhappy here, please be honest and say that you have not had similar experiences with Thais and with Thailand which probably also at least annoy you and occasionally make you think of your former lives at “home”.

[pgrahmm]

10 minutes ago, Weasel100 said:

Please be honest and say that you have not had similar experiences with Thais and with Thailand which probably also at least annoy you and occasionally make you think of your former lives at “home”.

Have to honestly say I'm glad not to have your experiences or your overall outlook......If I did I'd constantly be swiveling my head waiting for the next anxiety attack....Not a good way to live.....

[Odysseus123]

2 hours ago, Gregster said:

Even if I wanted to, I can’t go back home (Australia) because I don’t speak Mandarin or Arabic.

That is curious...

I returned to Australia almost 12 months ago-for health care reasons-and have been treated with compassion and dignity.I certainly enjoy the multi-cultural elements of Aussie society  and spend my days talking to a rather wonderful ethnic mix...and I don't speak Mandarin or Arabic...or Bogan either.

 

 

[Weasel100]

19 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Have to honestly say I'm glad not to have your experiences or your overall outlook......If I did I'd constantly be swiveling my head waiting for the next anxiety attack....Not a good way to live.....

You're right. It's not a good way to live but it is a fact and a result of my psyche and what I perceive here in Thailand

[lannarebirth]

12 minutes ago, Weasel100 said:

You're right. It's not a good way to live but it is a fact and a result of my psyche and what I perceive here in Thailand

Attachment to outcome is a good character trait to shed while living in Thailand. It makes for a much happier life.

[fellig]

1 hour ago, ginjag said:

Try Udon,  near the second biggest city, climate good, having a WINTER,  rail, bus, and a big airport. Lowest cost of living areas,  super 3 bed air con, garden, near city,   7,000 baht monthly.    Immigration good,  has mega shopping mall.

Sounds good, thanks. Is it relatively easy to cross the Laos border?

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Weasel100 said:

This lying, deception and misleading is always related to money and it is therefore my conclusion that the very, very great majority of Thais are interested in only three things in life - money, money and money

I disagree with your conclusion.

They are happy to lie about anything, it appears to me to be the national sport. 

[BritManToo]

9 minutes ago, fellig said:

Sounds good, thanks. Is it relatively easy to cross the Laos border?

Udon, hotter than hell and twice as humid.

Laos border crossing 1,500bht or $35.

[altcarrbob]

7 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I disagree with your conclusion.

They are happy to lie about anything, it appears to me to be the national sport. 

They even lie about lying

[GarryP]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

the only thing I miss is the British countryside.

 

The only thing I miss too (but only in the spring and summer).

[Gecko123]

@Weasel100

 

I have experienced almost all of the sentiments you expressed in your excellent post. I would offer the following feedback.

 

Regarding your sense of never being able to let down your guard because someone is constantly trying to rip you off, the way I manage this problem is to verify prices beforehand, comparison shop, put stuff in writing, review specifications carefully, and get recommendations from Thai neighbors and friends about vendors and service providers. Slowly over time I think I have established a reputation locally as someone who can not be easily taken advantage of, but that's certainly not to suggest that I haven't been taken advantage of plenty of times along the way.

 

You mentioned the lack of English proficiency in Thailand, which begs the question about your proficiency in Thai. Please note that most of the above advice about how to avoid getting ripped off requires at least a basic proficiency in Thai in order to communicate what you need and what your expectations are. I also wanted to share with you that I have often been really surprised when complaining to Thai neighbors and friends about being ripped off or overcharged by how often I am told by them that the vendor has a similar reputation among Thai people for overcharging Thai people. 'Kaw khit paang' (He charges a lot) they always say, so it's not always because you're a foreigner that you're being overcharged. Not saying foreigners aren't sometimes overcharged here because they definitely are, but it's important not to go overboard in the paranoia department.

 

Regarding consumer protections, I make most of my major purchases through major retailers which have more consumer friendly return policies, and try to do research beforehand on the product I am in the market for so as not be overly reliant on the advice of the sales clerk who may have a different agenda other than helping me select the best appliance for my needs. Regarding traffic safety, agree 100% that this is a huge problem. You have to compensate for this by slowing down and driving more defensively than you otherwise would.

 

In summary, I'd say the feeling that you don't know who you can trust over here is a fairly common reaction most people have at one time or another experienced here. I guess I'm trying to encourage you by reporting that it is possible to work through that distrust and get to a place where transactions involving money are less stressful and less likely to result in feelings you've been ripped off.  My sense is that this is possible for you. The direction I would point you in is better preparation before transactions and improving your language skills so as to be better able to communicate your needs and expectations. Good luck.

 

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by Gecko123

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Gecko123 said:

Please note that most of the above advice about how to avoid getting ripped off requires at least a basic proficiency in Thai in order to communicate what you need and what your expectations are.

Or you could forget about the Thai language and just buy items that are clearly priced.

I find it easier to do all my non-food shopping at Lazada.

[poanoi]

On 7/19/2018 at 11:25 AM, spidermike007 said:

 It is hard for alot of families to get by, much less live well there. There is no competition for me. I think one of the tricks to being happy here is living in either a rural area, or a smaller town. Life in Bangkok, Pattaya, and Phuket or Samui is a lower quality life than elsewhere, in my opinion. Of the four, I would choose Bangkok, which is a great city. But crowded, expensive, and alot of traffic, etc.

senseless drivel,

i agree living in the sticks gives you nothing to spend money on,

but you only ever have to end up on the wrong side of sukumvit to experience a piss poor life with all that entail of dead boring life,

all the while saving a tremendous amount of money.

but, without gogo theres no party, and without party

theres no reason to live

[Weasel100]

17 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

@Weasel100

 

I have experienced almost all of the sentiments you expressed in your excellent post. I would offer the following feedback.

 

Regarding your sense of never being able to let down your guard because someone is constantly trying to rip you off, the way I manage this problem is to verify prices beforehand, comparison shop, put stuff in writing, review specifications carefully, and get recommendations from Thai neighbors and friends about vendors and service providers. Slowly over time I think I have established a reputation locally as someone who can not be easily taken advantage of, but that's certainly not to suggest that I haven't been taken advantage of plenty of times along the way.

 

You mentioned the lack of English proficiency in Thailand, which begs the question about your proficiency in Thai. Please note that most of the above advice about how to avoid getting ripped off requires at least a basic proficiency in Thai in order to communicate what you need and what your expectations are. I also wanted to share with you that I have often been really surprised when complaining to Thai neighbors and friends about being ripped off or overcharged by how often I am told by them that the vendor has a similar reputation among Thai people for overcharging Thai people. 'Kaw khit paang' (He charges a lot) they always say, so it's not always because you're a foreigner that you're being overcharged. Not saying foreigners aren't sometimes overcharged here because they definitely are, but it's important not to go overboard in the paranoia department.

 

Regarding consumer protections, I make most of my major purchases through major retailers which have more consumer friendly return policies, and try to do research beforehand on the product I am in the market for so as not be overly reliant on the advice of the sales clerk helping me who may have a different agenda other than helping me select the best appliance for my needs. Regarding traffic safety, agree 100% that this is a huge problem. You have to compensate for this by slowing down and driving more defensively than you otherwise would.

 

In summary, I'd say the feeling that you don't know who you can trust over here is a fairly common reaction most people have at one time or another experienced here. I guess I'm trying to encourage you by reporting that it is possible to work through that distrust and get to a place where transactions involving money are less stressful and less likely to result in feelings you've been ripped off.  My sense is that this is possible for you. The direction I would point you in is better preparation before transactions and improving your language skills so as to be better able to communicate your needs and expectations. Good luck.

 

 

Thanks Gecko
I agree with what you say and I admit that Thai language is not a strong point for me. But please understand that it is precisely because I have had so many terrible experiences in dealing with Thais that leaves me without any real desire to improve my Thai language skills. Lazy? Certainly. Understandable? I hope so.
And I also have to say that it a huge advantage for me to have my Thai wife who is obviously fluent in her own language.
It's interesting that when we met my little wife had a very different attitude to business dealings with Thais. Now, after some six years together, she gets increasingly exasperated and borders on angry with the Thais that she deals with on our behalf and who try to rip me off via her. And trust me, this happens almost all the time.
I am not a stupid person and I do my research and try to get things nailed down before I enter into business transactions with Thais. But, even when I have believed that my wife and I have a proper understanding with a Thai who is to do work for us, lies and deceptions almost always follow and it's always me who ends up being ripped off, despite my efforts to avoid that happening. 
Thanks again for your comments and your element of support for what I was trying to say in my original post.

[AYJAYDEE]

23 minutes ago, poanoi said:

senseless drivel,

i agree living in the sticks gives you nothing to spend money on,

but you only ever have to end up on the wrong side of sukumvit to experience a piss poor life with all that entail of dead boring life,

all the while saving a tremendous amount of money.

but, without gogo theres no party, and without party

theres no reason to live

the "partying" (read anesthetizing) is the only thing that makes city life bearable. sad that some people must use intoxicants to get thru life.

[BritManToo]

42 minutes ago, poanoi said:

but, without gogo theres no party, and without party

theres no reason to live

2

As long as there is beer and drugs, there's a party, nobody else required.

[Weasel100]

Sad isn't it that, for many of us, life here is only made tolerable by, variously it appears, alcohol or something stronger or masturbation.
Look, I'm not truly unhappy here or I WOULD pack up and go home. It's just that there is so much about Thai society and Thai people and the Thais' couldn't give a shit attitude that just drives me crazy. This could be a much better country if the majority of Thai people were honest in their business dealings, stopped lying all the time (and let's not have any of that crap about lying being acceptable in this culture as a face saving device - lying is lying is lying), if Government actually gave a shit about road safety, if the Police were not corrupt to the core and if Thailand had a forward looking attitude to the world and its place in it.
 

[Nemises]

I certainly enjoy the multi-cultural elements of Aussie society  and spend my days talking to a rather wonderful ethnic mix...and I don't speak Mandarin or Arabic

 

You obviously didn’t visit Hurstville in Sydney’s south or Chatswood in Sydney’s north. Back in the day both of these areas were English only speaking suburbs. Both are now “ Chinatowns” where English is no longer the majority language.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hurstville-sydneys-real-chinatown-20150218-13ia0l.html

 

 

 

 

Then of course there’s Lakemba, which is not far from Hurstville. Good luck living in Lakemba in you don’t speak Arabic.

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/ugly-reality-of-vibrant-neighbourhood-inside-australias-most-muslim-suburb/news-story/bf4af2adb1d11cf929fe15620cf63025

 

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Gregster said:

 

You obviously didn’t visit Hurstville in Sydney’s south or Chatswood in Sydney’s north. Back in the day both of these areas were English only speaking suburbs. Both are now “ Chinatowns” where English is no longer the majority language.

 

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/hurstville-sydneys-real-chinatown-20150218-13ia0l.html

 

 

 

 

Then of course there’s Lakemba, which is not far from Hurstville. Good luck living in Lakemba in you don’t speak Arabic.

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/news-life/ugly-reality-of-vibrant-neighbourhood-inside-australias-most-muslim-suburb/news-story/bf4af2adb1d11cf929fe15620cf63025

 

Sorry..I actually worked in that area as a health care professional.

 

We had about 30 languages on the list at that time..

 

Splendid eating out on the evening shifts..my favourite was  a small Vietnamese restaurant in Riverwood..or was that a Thai restaurant in Sans Souci..goodness only knows...

 

I have no interest in Australian bogans.

[Wake Up]

Some people like a nest some like to fly from tree to tree. I personally hate a nest so having the options to go when I want is key to me being happy in Thailand or anywhere. I have adult kids in USA and one grand child that I miss but they are busy with work and life. When I go see them I realize they are not young kids anymore and we raised them to be under stressful jobs and independent. Stressful jobs don’t leave a lot of time for other things like parents. I love my grandchild but don’t want to be a full time babysitter either. 

 

Thailand allows a lot of things. Cheaper furnished housing, better night life, better female companions, ease of travel from Swampy, bus service or cheap planes or cheap car travel through Thailand, better cheaper medical care for me, food and movies cheap, tv and internet cheap, mass transportation, ability to live pretty free unless you are thai. 

 

What I have trouble with are language, some expats here stuck broke and that is hard to see, Thais are generally polite and nice except for the ones that expats have changed by showing off to them the expats money availability so they look at us like atms, Thais living in the moment to the point that no savings for another day, class system stratus, Isaan parents dependent on their kids for cash, and the politics and police  I just try to ignore.  

 

Read a sign in Bangkok 

yesterday is history 

tomorrow is a mystery 

today is a gift. 

 

Pretty much says it all. 

[Nemises]

 
..my favourite was  a small Vietnamese restaurant in Riverwood..or was that a Thai restaurant in Sans Souci.
 

Riverwood (English spoken majority) and Sans Souci (English majority) are obviously fine if you speak English.

It’s noted that you didn’t visit Hurstville (majority China) and Lakemba (majority Arabic) - which were the areas referred to.