Earth to RCD safety check on professional worker

[Crossy]

6 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Only if you are doing automotive wiring and even then bullet and spade connections are far more commonly used.

Indeed, this is what I understand by "Scotchlock", most are definitely not suitable for mains applications.

 

 

[longball53098]

ScotchLock is a 3M brand of connectors and has been around for 50 years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/3/3m/scotchlok-tools-and-connectors?utm_adgroup=Connectors & Interconnects

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, longball53098 said:

ScotchLock is a 3M brand of connectors and has been around for 50 years,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Yeah, it's a whole range of IDCs (Insulation Displacement Connector), for telecom, automotive and (some) power (the 558 series are rated at 600V).

 

I always found them unreliable (many moons ago) when doing car wiring so I have a distrust of anything IDC for mains wiring. I'm sure they are much better now.

 

 

 

[watcharacters]

On 7/23/2018 at 10:15 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

Only if you are doing automotive wiring and even then bullet and spade connections are far more commonly used.

 

I've never seen them used in domestic or commercial electrical wiring 

 

 

Just curious,

 

Have you seen any wiring in the USA?

 

I have yet to see a bullet or spade connection that would accomodate  5 - 8 #12 gauge conductors.   but I have seen all of course.

 

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

3 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

I have yet to see a bullet or spade connection that would accomodate  5 - 8 #12 gauge conductors.   but I have seen all of course.

I'm "pretty sure" the NEC does not allow 5-8 conductors in a single connector.  How would you even attempt that?

[watcharacters]

2 hours ago, bankruatsteve said:

I'm "pretty sure" the NEC does not allow 5-8 conductors in a single connector.  How would you even attempt that?

 

I tend to doubt the NEC specifies how many wires of any size can be  installed under any size ScotchLok.

 

The NEC really isn't written like that.   It specifies minimum requirements for installations.

 

I can offer this as a guideline however, from the 3M site.

 

 

I will say I'm  pretty sure I haven't twisted 5-7  #12 AMG wires under a grey or blue ScotchLok more than a thousand or more times.  

 

My main complaint  was the lunacy of 3M to say it wasn't  necessary to twist the wires.      I called them from work one day  and said I'd like their best man to join me and show how I can change  untwisted wiring hot  and not cause an interruption, or damage for the customer.   They had no solution or suggestion.    The instructions  they give  are  for a first time application and not designed for remodel.   

 

I should have followed up but didn't.    Sadly they still post their same installation  instructions which are correct but cause  total havoc for any future modifications.

 

Trust me 5 wires easily go under a grey  ScotchLok and 8 will fit  under a blue  3M ScotchLok.    Just use 9" Lineman's pliers and be skillful.

 

I guarantee it will work.

[bankruatsteve]

Not that it matters for anything... the last NEC I was familiar with was the (I think) 1977 NEC.  I distinctly recall specification saying how many of one gauge or combination of gauge could be fit into a certain color wire nut.  I'm "pretty suref" ScotchLok was not specified and I have never even heard of it until this post.  The reason I am pretty sure about this is because it is one of two items I got called out for when the inspector came (I wired my own house and he found the only place I had put 5 12# in a red nut).  Cheers.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, watcharacters said:

 

Just curious,

 

Have you seen any wiring in the USA?

 

I have yet to see a bullet or spade connection that would accomodate  5 - 8 #12 gauge conductors.   but I have seen all of course.

What is the relevance of your question. And yes I've watched this old house.

 

The only wiring that uses the only connection called a Scotchlock I can find is used in automotive wiring. That also uses bullet and spade connections.

 

None of these that would ever be used in domestic wiring.

 

I have yet to see automotive wiring using that many wires that size apart from the earth cable or starter motor cable and they would use ring terminals.

 

Ring terminals on house wiring and ring, bootlace, spade and fork terminals are reasonably available/common on multi strand wiring for connections in/to machines.

 

FWIW I'm using bootlace terminals on most of my lighting as it has multi strand wiring. I also use these

as they are a lot cheaper than the wago connectors 

[rosst]

On 7/19/2018 at 6:14 PM, bankruatsteve said:

I'll say it again... The Thai "twist and tape" is probably a lot better than most other options here.  Why?  Because the twist makes a very good connection and that what is needed.  The tape is another subject but most tapes used should be OK.  On the other hand, the above photo shows a box overloaded no matter what kind of connections.  Should have a bigger box or two.

Agreed with the twist and tape, I objected and opted for screw connectors similar to OZ and three years down the track the insulators are all brittle and crumbling require total re-work. 

[Crossy]

On 7/25/2018 at 4:08 PM, sometimewoodworker said:

as they are a lot cheaper than the wago connectors 

Please don't use those on anything other than lighting, they melt at even reasonable loads (trust me, I know).

 

Twist-n-tape can be very good when done properly with good quality (3M) tape, I would rather use Wagos (of either type) or (again good quality) wire nuts.

[sometimewoodworker]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

Please don't use those on anything other than lighting, they melt at even reasonable loads (trust me, I know).

That is exactly what I use them for. I think that the highest power that I use them for is about 0.25A though most are under 0.04A.

 

For higher power temporary connections, screwed chock blocks for extremely temporary and testing I use a Quicktest Mains Connector,  

I'll use twist and wire nut with 3M Self-amalgamating tape if there are too many or too big wire for a chock block

Edited August 1, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[sometimewoodworker]

Rather a topical test done on Wago & copy connectors.

 

To summarise with 2 x 2.5mm  wire to get the 5 way to fail it had to be run at 154 Amps for several minutes 

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bP0qHyVAymU

[djtheoz]

I think all is sorted out now.

Crazy enough, when rewiring the earth to neutral input link inside the breaker box, i found the ass** didn't even strip the wire before putting it to the earth bar. So not a wrong connection, but no connection at all.. double bad.

Would have been an attempted murder if happened by a certified installer in my own country. But ey, amazing Thailand needs solid reasons to be amazing.

The greatest challenge to me now is how to confront 'the artist' with his crappy criminal installation work and tell him he's bad bad BAD and should leave this planet and go wash the moon. Without him losing his face, respecting cultural differences.. rrr..

How on earth can a farang do that?!!?

 

I suggested to use wire nuts but the guy answered he never uses them because they won't fit in the boxes. Hm yeah... take that!

Wago or Wieland connectors are not used here due to their relative high price. I decided to let it be. Trying to teach a frog how to play chess is nothing for me..

 

Well. All and all I should have installed all of the electrics myself. Like many other construction aspects in our little project.
 

A woman nearby was fried by her non-earthed washing machine last month.

Villagers found her in her house, 4 weeks later. "She fell and died.."

Uhuh. Nobody talks about the electrocution, nor the reasons behind it.

 

Word of appreciation for all your comments.

You saved our lives ! Kwab khun mak