Trouble with 5 KVA Diesel Genset

[Crossy]

4 minutes ago, Artisi said:

You should be able to source a stand alone tank which you could mount on the wall at some convenient spot and run a fuel line to the pump. 

Good for a longer run time too.

 

Alternatively, I've used this stuff in the past on classic bike tanks https://www.mandp.co.uk/petseal-ultra-tank-sealant-260ml.htm  not sure if it's good for diesel and I've not seen it here.

 

 

 

 

[carlyai]

Look what just arrived. A new fuel tank for the genset.

All good, but, being cunning I told the sender not to send it express and not to write ' petrol tank for diesel engine or similar', just present and addressed to my wife.

It came express and 'petrol tank for diesel motor' on the declaration. Thanks. Tank cost $A 50 and extras about A$ 100.

Communications must be another one of my weak points. [emoji21]

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[carlyai]

I Googled Thailand fuel tanks etc but couldn't find anything, so ordered a tank from overseas as I didn't think my local corner store pump shop would have one.
So got the tank yesterday and today buying some fuel line for the tank at my local pump shop and just casually asked if they they had a tank, and as expected they said no, but they have an extensive set of reference manuals and could order one for B 800!

The word I here used for this is 'book lie". Not sure if it's Phu Tai, Issan or Thai, but I think it means a very stupid person.


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[Crossy]

I never fail to be amazed at what is in-stock or available from our local specialist stores.

 

There's a small group of farm machinery places in the back of Rangsit Market. I have never failed to get what was needed from carburetors, fuel taps, bearings and pull cords to "mysterious rubber things". The little old lady always finds the (often genuine branded) part lurking somewhere in the organised chaos. Need a propeller for your long-tail? They have them too in two and three blade.

 

I assume you've ordered the manual (I'll bet it's in Thai but there will be pictures and diagrams).

 

[carlyai]

@Crossy sorry I've stuffed up and written some stuff about the fuel tank for this thread in this thread ' Chinadoing 5kva genset'.
Don't know if you want to combine them both or ban me?

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[johng]

The word I here used for this is 'book lie". Not sure if it's Phu Tai, Issan or Thai, but I think it means a very stupid person.

Depends if she laughed while saying
"book lie"
= you silly sausage you !

If no laughing ,then more towards the
"very stupid person" (or silly sod) [emoji1]

[carlyai]

Depends if she laughed while saying
"book lie"
= you silly sausage you !

If no laughing ,then more towards the
"very stupid person" (or silly sod) [emoji1]

No...that's what I called myself.
My lovely owner/lady at the tractor shop is too nice to say that to me, then when I told her I paid $150 altogether ($50 unit and $100 freight +) and she said B800 I went boohoo and she said 'don't cry it's all right'.
Nice people.

As Crossy said, these stores look deceptive, but when you venture in the back, they stretch for a long way.

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[Crossy]

6 hours ago, carlyai said:

@Crossy sorry I've stuffed up and written some stuff about the fuel tank for this thread in this thread ' Chinadoing 5kva genset'.
Don't know if you want to combine them both or ban me?

2

I have (hopefully) moved the fuel tank comments to this thread.

 

We'll keep the other for your task of making it auto-start ?

 

This one:-

 

 

[carlyai]

I've got the genset back together after replacing the fuel tank etc. etc.

It runs well, but at 225 V. I can't seem to adjust the mechanical screw stop to get the machine to run at 220 V. It's either 225 V or 200 V (approx). I was adjusting the horizontal threaded piece at the bottom of the fuel switch.

There is another mechanical adjustment with a vertical spring that slides into 3 or 4 different holes. If I move this spring to the next hole to the left it could lower the engine speed and voltage. Well that's my theory.

Trouble is I can't get the spring out of the hole it is in to re-position it, so I'm going to have to take out the bolt in the middle of the assembly to move the spring one hole.
Trouble is there is another spring inside the assembly and when I remove the bolt it will probably all fly to pieces and be difficult the re-assemble.

Should I just leave well alone and have the regulated output at 225 V, or try and adjust the spring position?

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[bankruatsteve]

1 hour ago, carlyai said:

Should I just leave well alone... 

 

YES!  Generators tend to drop a bit in voltage with increasing load anyway.

[sometimewoodworker]

20 hours ago, carlyai said:

Should I just leave well alone and have the regulated output at 225 V, or try and adjust the spring position?

Leave well alone. I don't know any appliances that are bothered by a very slight over voltage. Now if you were getting 250 V and up then yes it would be a problem or 180 V and under. 

[carlyai]

Leave well alone. I don't know any appliances that are bothered by a very slight over voltage. Now if you were getting 250 V and up then yes it would be a problem or 180 V and under. 

Yes I left it alone. Might come back to it one day.

Just as an aside...after about 1 hour of running the output voltage starts to drop, that's at about 11 to 12 A. I find if I run it at around 8 A it's happy; a far cry from 22 A rated.

Have to watch these cheap Chinese gensets and probably de-rate by half if considering buying one.


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[Crossy]

On 8/6/2018 at 8:10 AM, carlyai said:

It runs well, but at 225 V. I can't seem to adjust the mechanical screw stop to get the machine to run at 220 V.

Changing the governor (engine speed) changes the FREQUENCY. Please get your frequency meter out and re-set to 50Hz (or 3000 RPM if you have a tacho).

 

The AVR may have an adjusting screw (could be hidden round the back) which will change the voltage.

 

220V +- 10% is 198V to 242V, pretty much any kit should be just fine if your voltage remains within this range.

[Crossy]

On 8/6/2018 at 8:10 AM, carlyai said:

Trouble is there is another spring inside the assembly and when I remove the bolt it will probably all fly to pieces and be difficult the re-assemble.

There is a technical name for this arrangement, it is called a "ping f**kit". It goes "ping", you say "f**kit".

 

[carlyai]

There is a technical name for this arrangement, it is called a "ping f**kit". It goes "ping", you say "f**kit".
 

Yes, been there, done that. That's why I was worried.

When I was young and stupider (debatable), I had a Sunbeam Alpine which I rebuilt, I'm nearly sure this is where I was introduced to that saying.

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[carlyai]

Changing the governor (engine speed) changes the FREQUENCY. Please get your frequency meter out and re-set to 50Hz (or 3000 RPM if you have a tacho).
 
The AVR may have an adjusting screw (could be hidden round the back) which will change the voltage.
 
220V +- 10% is 198V to 242V, pretty much any kit should be just fine if your voltage remains within this range.

Thanks for the info.

Question: The thing I adjusted is the mechanical screw that seems to adjust the backstop that the fuel Start/Stop toggle switch rests on. I thought adjusting that was adjusting fuel flow to the fuel pump. So the toggle goes from Stop to Run. The adjustment moves the run lever position by a very small amount. It's not connected to anything else, though has a piston, sort off extended nipple in the middle. Wondered what it was for when it has no external connections.

So if this is the governor adjust, it adjusts the frequency and voltage output?

When I initially was looking into bleeding the injector system, I found that it was just vibrating around as the lock nut had vibrated lose.



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[Artisi]

18 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Yes, been there, done that. That's why I was worried.

When I was young and stupider (debatable), I had a Sunbeam Alpine which I rebuilt, I'm nearly sure this is where I was introduced to that saying.

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Rebuilding a Sunbeam Alpine would certainly be  a good introduction along with things like damm and bugger and who in their right mind fxxxing designed this. 

[Crossy]

5 minutes ago, carlyai said:

So if this is the governor adjust, it adjusts the frequency and voltage output?

Probably an idle stop for when the engine is used for "something else". When your manual comes you should be able to tell us ?

 

Changing the engine speed will change the frequency and (as a result of a simple AVR) probably the voltage. Get both within 5% and you're (mostly) good.

 

Remember that other engineering adage, "if it 'aint f**ked, don't fix it", it's working, leave it alone. 

[carlyai]

Rebuilding a Sunbeam Alpine would certainly be  a good introduction along with things like damm and bugger and who in their right mind fxxxing designed this. 

Mine had an overdrive, that when engaged went wirrrr...click click bang or something like that; and didn't seem to do anything. When I pulled it to pieces there were bits of metal and things all loose and moving around. Explained the noise.
Had a huge thrust bearing on the clutch and pulled that gearbox and clutch off a few times and couldn't find anything wrong. Eventually on another look the trust washer was worn.
Looked nice when I sold it. Bit uncomfortable for parking in the cemetery.


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[Artisi]

48 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Mine had an overdrive, that when engaged went wirrrr...click click bang or something like that; and didn't seem to do anything. When I pulled it to pieces there were bits of metal and things all loose and moving around. Explained the noise.
Had a huge thrust bearing on the clutch and pulled that gearbox and clutch off a few times and couldn't find anything wrong. Eventually on another look the trust washer was worn.
Looked nice when I sold it. Bit uncomfortable for parking in the cemetery.


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My toy/s were Triumph TR3a, I have owned 3 in total over about 40 year span. The last one being the best - 1958 model, fully rebuilt by others (thankfully) big bore engine, Webber carbs, and high lift cam, suspension mods etc. went like an rocket, never extended it fully (too old in the head by this stage) but think it would have topped 120mph +, unfortunately had part with it prior to moving to Thailand.

Any sports car of that era were too cramped for too much cemetery action. 

Memories. 

[carlyai]

My toy/s were Triumph TR3a, I have owned 3 in total over about 40 year span. The last one being the best - 1958 model, fully rebuilt by others (thankfully) big bore engine, Webber carbs, and high lift cam, suspension mods etc. went like an rocket, never extended it fully (too old in the head by this stage) but think it would have topped 120mph +, unfortunately had part with it prior to moving to Thailand.
Any sports car of that era were too cramped for too much cemetery action. 
Memories. 

Yeah tr3 tops...you had more money than me...bet you miss the tr3 now.

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[Artisi]

23 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Yeah tr3 tops...you had more money than me...bet you miss the tr3 now.

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I sure do, one for the pleasure of driving it and one for the financial game that would be realised now.

[carlyai]

I sure do, one for the pleasure of driving it and one for the financial game that would be realised now.

beautiful

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[carlyai]

Back to the genset.

I was wondering about a dummy load to test the diesel and brilliant Crossy mentioned an electric kettle in another post. So bought a cheapish one and have my power come frequency meter.

I started the genset up a couple of weeks ago, just on LED lights and fans and the freq. was 55 Hz and 226 V so will try and adjust the mechanical stops to get the freq. closer to 50 Hz and then hopefully find a an adjustment on the AVR panel to adjust the voltage.

The UPS doesn't like a supply of 55 Hz and beeps it has changed over to battery.

I have to rethink about my automatic start because although it's doable with my changeover switch, I have a single phase genset supplying the house 3 phases, so I'm not sure which phase, as yet, to monitor for a changeover.



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[Crossy]

Once you get the frequency closer (mechanical governer) the output voltage will probably be OK, 226V is no problem anyway.

 

Nothing to stop you monitoring all three phases using one of those 3-phase over-under units. One goes over/under and the genset starts and transfers everything.

 

EDIT A while back I designed, but never built, a 3-phase to single-phase "esential load unit". The idea was that, since the biggest form of power outage is the loss of one phase, it automagically connected the essential load to whichever phase was still working. I may resurrect it as a project. You could use that to delay starting the genset until all three phases are out of tolerance.

[Artisi]

13 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Once you get the frequency closer (mechanical governer) the output voltage will probably be OK, 226V is no problem anyway.

 

Nothing to stop you monitoring all three phases using one of those 3-phase over-under units. One goes over/under and the genset starts and transfers everything.

 

EDIT A while back I designed, but never built, a 3-phase to single-phase "esential load unit". The idea was that, since the biggest form of power outage is the loss of one phase, it automagically connected the essential load to whichever phase was still working. I may resurrect it as a project. You could use that to delay starting the genset until all three phases are out of tolerance.

Sounds like a useful project to get back into. 

[Crossy]

28 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Sounds like a useful project to get back into. 

 

You could even buy one ????

 

https://novatek-electro.com/en/products/phase-selector-switch.html

 

This is a 16A version, but they do bigger ones that can also operate external contactors, no limits then ????

 

 

Nearest dealers are in India, may need to call up my Indian friends ????

 

[carlyai]

I didn't notice before, until I screwed it out on it's own, but the chromed nut at the end of the screw with the locking nut is an adjustment too. Before the chromed part looked like it was all part of the screw. It's got a screwdriver slot in it and losening the locknut and screwing it in or out changes the engine speed and now I know the frequency too. (Thanks again Crossy).

If I unlock the nut, screw in/out the large screw until I'm near 50Hz, lock the nut, then adjust the chrome screw at the end for fine adjustment, ie 50Hz.

Hope this is the way to do it.

Gotta sort out another battery first.

My test setup would make the local electricians proud.



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[Crossy]

20 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Hope this is the way to do it.

 

I reckon so ????

 

and you can make a brew whilst testing ????

[carlyai]

Just cleaning up this thread and returned after my back op. Amazing back surgery these days. Go thru a small hole above the belly button, take out a collapsed disc, jack open the space, install a bone growing media spacer, screw it all in place, smack on the bum and " off you go sunshine".

Not allowed to bend, so wifey to the front.
Started genset and freq. 55 Hz, on load, so wifey removed the governer spring and moved it to the next level, then adjusted the manual throttle stop. Good result, 51 to 52 Hz @ 220V boiling the kettle at about 7 A. I think good enough for Isaanians.

Thanks for all the help, learnt a lot. Looking back, the best part was the red Tr3's.




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