New topic (about guns)

[Henkjan2]

Recently i read (almost) the full 19 pages of the gun-topic from 2012-2013. I could not reply a post in this topic; it seems to be closed. But as i have a relevant question about guns I would like to start again. 

 

First off all is this the wright sub-topic to post about guns, fire arms? I'm a newbie on this forum.

Thanks!

[Crossy]

This forum is fine for discussion of gun ownership in Thailand.

 

Such an old thread would be archived by now and may contain outdated information, best to start a new one.

 

 

[Henkjan2]

Thank, i will try to be short and clear as possible. 

 

My Thai wife (50) bought a respectable piece of land just north outside of Bangkok city, where the land is not so expensive. She wants to build a second (large) business here; sale of construction material also house/appartment building company. Also building on this land 7 worker homes and a poolvilla for us with guesthouse later on.

 

 Unfortunately the main and very good worker (who lived on the premises) left for a funeral and didn't come back. He was needed for farming in Isaan for now. 

 

As the terrain was now unguarded thieves stole a lot of material that was already stocked in the warehouse. It makes me furious now that i am in Netherlands. My wife is now anxious to go there especially in the dark evening of course.

 

 So i thought of buying a German Shepard guard dog, but i think it is just to much work and hassle to maintain.

 

Then, Googling, i came to read the 2012 gun-topic on here.

 

I was once trained in the Dutch army to handle a handgun (UZI), also a standard handgun. For the rest i didn't touch them as they are forbidden in this European country. But once learned will not forget. 

 

Now i am going next month to a shooting range in Bangkok with my wife and here 2 daughters (23 + 18). If she/they handle well we can probably buy a gun on her name (as good reason for buy).

 

I believe i am pretty sain and responsible. I'm not shooting Thais who come unattended on the land. Maybe i would consider a real 100% thief a warning shot, maybe a shot on the legs to stop him. I would not kill someone over a bag of cement wright?

 

Now my question is how do you feel about this? Please tell me what country your from and your concerns or otherwise a simple yes or no will do. Thanks !!

 

 

[Henkjan2]

Here a small update. My wife did not really respond to my "shooting range invitation", but i think she doesn't really like it.  

 

In fact she got the Turbo on now; a new worker (picture) who is living temporary on the land as a guard!

 

Also other workers are making 3 fences and all the ironwork upon the wall. She says next month, when i come,  thats all finished and safe. We can already live there.

 

So for me i think the pressure to buy a handgun, firearm is off. Will see how it developes ... 

 

Picture 2:  will give an idea of the walliron. The front wall and left side wall need 3 gates and about 2 x 100 meter/yards of ironing. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The manic]

I enjoy shooting and asked recently about opportunities in Pattaya. Didn't get a responses.  I shoot when I can and recently in Surin hired a side arm from the army who were offering training and target practice.

[Aussieroaming]

Best to hire a watchman i would have thought

[Ahab]

You should not buy a gun (I am a pro-gun American). Your talk about "just shooting someone in the leg" shows you know nothing about the use of deadly force and have no business with a gun for self defense. My father taught me as a very young boy to only point a gun (loaded or unloaded) at things I either wanted to shoot or things I needed to kill. If you point a gun at another human being it should only be because your life, or the life of another is in danger and only the use of deadly force can remove the danger. Under stress it is hard enough to hit center of mass let alone shoot to wound, also what if your leg shot hits an artery? He could still bleed out. Also as others have stated what would your situation be if you fired a gun (warning shots or at someone) with a legal gun, that is not in your name (but belongs to your wife).

 

Hire a guard,  buy some dogs or both.

[The manic]

20 minutes ago, Ahab said:

You should not buy a gun (I am a pro-gun American). Your talk about "just shooting someone in the leg" shows you know nothing about the use of deadly force and have no business with a gun for self defense. My father taught me as a very young boy to only point a gun (loaded or unloaded) at things I either wanted to shoot or things I needed to kill. If you point a gun at another human being it should only be because your life, or the life of another is in danger and only the use of deadly force can remove the danger. Under stress it is hard enough to hit center of mass let alone shoot to wound, also what if your leg shot hits an artery? He could still bleed out. Also as others have stated what would your situation be if you fired a gun (warning shots or at someone) with a legal gun, that is not in your name (but belongs to your wife).

 

Hire a guard,  buy some dogs or both.

You don't even need to keep a dog.  Just feed a few strays around the perimeters of your property. But you are so correct about your point about accuracy.  A warning shot in the air maybe but a side arm is only usefully accurate at about 15 meters with a static target. Blasting away in the dark to hit a leg is fantasy.  Another alternative is to move to a safer urban environment.....such a Pattaya..

.

[Henkjan2]

Bad news unfortunately again, according to statistics succesfull thieves come back ... and they did.

 

A loading dock door was crushed an iron bars were stolen aswell as workers tools. Police informed and they seem to have a lead, but still that may be nothing. 

 

So the gunrange testshooting is live again and confirmed now by my wife and her 18+ kids.

 

 http://www.bangkokshootingrange.com/gun_package.html

 

Unfortunately the police did not give document clearance to buy a gun, but i have this now arranged via friends ... 

 

Next month i will be there and we will stay on the premises,  maybe lucky to catch some thieves? 

 

 

[user343434]

I usually go to chon buri army camp shooting range as its open on sunday for civilians. 

S&W .38 incl 50 rounds 1500baht 

there are always sitting some fellow with a pelicase full with other specialties for rent, but they ask quite a number for the fee and ammo.

 

[Bang Bang]

To the OP:

To put it bluntly either you are naive or stupid or both. Ahab's pointed out the immediate danger of killing someone. Here's what could happen even if you don't.

 

Let's say you are a sharpshooter and manage to wound a would-be thief with a leg shot. Is this person a lone opportunist? Unlikely. More probably part of a gang that needs to fund a drinks/drugs/gambling/women lifestyle. So you've just seriously pissed off a bunch of local brutes. Your life won't be worth 2 satang if you plan to live in the vicinity after.

 

Newton's Third Law of (Control your) Emotions for Expats: To every action of an expat against a local there will be an opposite reaction a 100 times worse.

[canopy]

Creating the conditions for a deadly shootout is a poor solution. Instead what you need to do is setup security cameras that have sim cards and send pictures anytime someone shows up there. It sounds as if the thieves are comfortable and spend a lot of time getting stuff which is great. This system will allow the police to arrive in time to bust them before anything gets stolen and throw the book at them.

 

[wildewillie89]

Didn't a Thai guy just get charged for shooting people trying to steal his durians?

Buying a gun isn't hard for Thai people. Pay relevant officials and you will have one (even police and other officials have to pay unless they know them). But is that really the point? Buying a gun after going to a shooting range once? 

Shooting to wound? NYPD hit rate is 18%, but you (seems you haven't been around guns recently) reckon you can hit someone in the leg to wound them. Think you have been on the video games a bit too long. You are kidding yourself and will hit a completely innocent passerby or yourself...just as your wife and her daughters will.

German Shepherd will be useless unless you spend a lot of money training them. Many (not all) are show dog lines in Thai. There is one breed of dog that would stop thieves in Thai (regardless of what weapons they come with), but doesn't seem like you are capable of owning it or fencing the yard to have it. 

CCTV and hiring security would be your best bet. 

Edited August 6, 2018 by wildewillie89

[mogandave]

 
Next month i will be there and we will stay on the premises,  maybe lucky to catch some thieves? 
 
 

I would think it lucky if they did not come back.

You sound like you want to shoot someone....

[kevvy]

and if they have a gun .. what then... When you carry a gun,

it is easier  to harm somebody, or kill somebody, in a moment of anger 

[NCC1701A]

I thought a farang can't own guns in Thailand.

 

Did I get bad info?

 

 

[watcharacters]

 

Is it permitted to use deadly force  to protect against property loss?

 

[user343434]

How long it takes to handle a gun properly (easy for you, load and shoot, what you hit isn't important but the sh*t you are in then.. 

 

and how long takes it to train a dog or better two.

 

I got myself 2 scar-faced street-dog Puppies, Bang Kaew Shepard mix I estimate.

They are a bit stubborn at the beginning, but when you make them a comfortable home, get a scooter with a side car (they will love it and you)

and train them every day 15 min just the basics or as I use to say: 

 

My doggies rules:

 

- A hand of a stranger will feed you? Get the whole hand and stay off the food.

 

- Does a stranger carry something from your turf, block the door and keep him on the ground (unfortunately Thai dogs don't mind the difference of someone carries something in or carries something out, like a Lazada Courier, a misunderstanding that kept the poor guy 6 hrs laying in the sun on the lawn)

 

- Mum yells for help just go ballistic and make no Prisoners at all, but if mum is laughing screaming and brother Ae throws her into the pond have fun and join the game. They can well separate from serious fear or fun.

 

- somebody approaches you with a raised stick and a bang (Firework will do) might be shocking but after a while they

switch to teamwork, move to be no target, show teeth, growl and let the brother come from behind, then go both ballistic.

 

Last most important:

If you go out with daddy or mum in the public, there is no enemy, no treat and all in the Pub or the house you visit are nice people. Stalking is fine as learned, attacking only on command.

But be aware if you command the dog ATTACK it can count as using a gun!!

If they do it on their own on your turf its counting as a guard dog and the thiefves are fair Game!

 

More work than buying a gun but sure keeps you out of any trouble.

The Policeman who came to rescue the DHL Courier was stunned as i told him to turn the phone on loud.

One word and the poor fellow was free..

Only problem, after one week he popped up with a quite nasty looking flea carpet from the street and asked me if I could train "his" new dog. I told him not every dog of the street has the potential.. 

 

Better get a puppy of the street, invest 1500 baht for cleaning and vaccination and it will turn over into a great thankful friend. Just watch a group of dogs, the Alpha Puppy are clear to point out after a few days watching. You spotted one feed him for a few days, let him get closer to the car and when he jumps in one day on his own, you drive both home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Henkjan2]

Thanks Will, i understand your point, but i dont think that will work for us. I had a Shepard as a houseguest actually in NL who was trained to protect a family. Supersharp dog, but just so much work to handle. 

 

For now doing concrete elements work (that cannot be stolen) and trying not to think about g u n s .

[The manic]

On 8/7/2018 at 5:00 PM, See Will said:

How long it takes to handle a gun properly (easy for you, load and shoot, what you hit isn't important but the sh*t you are in then.. 

 

and how long takes it to train a dog or better two.

 

I got myself 2 scar-faced street-dog Puppies, Bang Kaew Shepard mix I estimate.

They are a bit stubborn at the beginning, but when you make them a comfortable home, get a scooter with a side car (they will love it and you)

and train them every day 15 min just the basics or as I use to say: 

 

My doggies rules:

 

- A hand of a stranger will feed you? Get the whole hand and stay off the food.

 

- Does a stranger carry something from your turf, block the door and keep him on the ground (unfortunately Thai dogs don't mind the difference of someone carries something in or carries something out, like a Lazada Courier, a misunderstanding that kept the poor guy 6 hrs laying in the sun on the lawn)

 

- Mum yells for help just go ballistic and make no Prisoners at all, but if mum is laughing screaming and brother Ae throws her into the pond have fun and join the game. They can well separate from serious fear or fun.

 

- somebody approaches you with a raised stick and a bang (Firework will do) might be shocking but after a while they

switch to teamwork, move to be no target, show teeth, growl and let the brother come from behind, then go both ballistic.

 

Last most important:

If you go out with daddy or mum in the public, there is no enemy, no treat and all in the Pub or the house you visit are nice people. Stalking is fine as learned, attacking only on command.

But be aware if you command the dog ATTACK it can count as using a gun!!

If they do it on their own on your turf its counting as a guard dog and the thiefves are fair Game!

 

More work than buying a gun but sure keeps you out of any trouble.

The Policeman who came to rescue the DHL Courier was stunned as i told him to turn the phone on loud.

One word and the poor fellow was free..

Only problem, after one week he popped up with a quite nasty looking flea carpet from the street and asked me if I could train "his" new dog. I told him not every dog of the street has the potential.. 

 

Better get a puppy of the street, invest 1500 baht for cleaning and vaccination and it will turn over into a great thankful friend. Just watch a group of dogs, the Alpha Puppy are clear to point out after a few days watching. You spotted one feed him for a few days, let him get closer to the car and when he jumps in one day on his own, you drive both home.

 

 

 

 

 

 

A remarkably rich fantasy life. Probably better just to move to a low crime area such as Pattaya!

[Nyezhov]

As a civilian, I've got 55 years of gunning under my belt and in the USA carried a Browning High Power or a 1911 primarily for 40 years.i still carry a pocket pistol on occasion.

 

I estimate that I have a minimum of 1000 rounds a month dowm range over those 40 years. You calculate that. I have formal training. I used a gun once in self defense. It sucked.

 

You want to have or carry a gun for self defence? Then you need to make sure:

 

1. You do it legally

2. You get training

3. You practice. That means a minimum of 1000 rounds a month.

[mogandave]

1,000 rounds a month minimum? How long does that take and how much does it cost with a 1911?

So you only did the minimum?

[Nyezhov]

12 minutes ago, mogandave said:

1,000 rounds a month minimum? How long does that take and how much does it cost with a 1911?

So you only did the minimum?

No I used that as a low estimate. Like in the 1990s I was doing about 5000 plus a month.....when you buy milsurp or wholesale it's cheap.

 

For example, At one point in the late 80s, I managed to snag 50000 rounds of 9mm at 03 a round. 5 guys kick in and boom, ya got 10,000 rounds....

 

Not even counting that for many years I was a reloader and could pump out a ton of .45.....

 

And I won't even add the rounds I fired off with rifles and machine guns. At one point you could buy WWII 8mm surp at .01 a round and spend all day cranking an MG34.....

 

Sometime I got crazy. I went through a phase where I had to shoot, combat style, all sorts of obsolete pistols and revolvers such as SAAs, Webley, Nagan, lugers, Broomies.....

 

Try doing Rhodesian Drills with a Broomie 55555

 

Ps....a BHP runs 13 rounds in the mag. In my prime I could run a mag out in 20 seconds or so and put them all in the kill zone Rhodesian style at 7 meters....

 

 

Edited August 11, 2018 by Nyezhov

[mogandave]

I thought most ranges frown on rapid fire.

I think a couple clips a month is plenty to maintain familiarity.

[Nyezhov]

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

I thought most ranges frown on rapid fire.

I think a couple clips a month is plenty to maintain familiarity.

Most outdoor ranges do. And I was a range officer at one time and could shoot at times I wanted.

 

Maintain familiarity is one thing, Making sure you are trained is another

[digbeth]

for about 60-80,000 baht and the waiting period and red tape until you can get a licence to buy gun and keep on the property, you can hire security guards for many months, until your building material is completely built

[canopy]

Why on earth would anyone consider a dog which presents its own set of problems and limitations when you can easily throw the thieves in jail using a simple, cheap security camera? This is not medieval times. We live in the 21st century and you can choose something better than any gun or dog. A camera is like having someone there 24 hours a day 7 days a week that never sleeps, keeps perfect footage of everything that happens, and instantly gets the authorities. And the camera will do this perfect job every day of the year for free. This is just too good, too cheap, and too easy for some of you apparently and you need to think of dumber ideas.

 

[mogandave]

Why on earth would anyone consider a dog which presents its own set of problems and limitations when you can easily throw the thieves in jail using a simple, cheap security camera? This is not medieval times. We live in the 21st century and you can choose something better than any gun or dog. A camera is like having someone there 24 hours a day 7 days a week that never sleeps, keeps perfect footage of everything that happens, and instantly gets the authorities. And the camera will do this perfect job every day of the year for free. This is just too good, too cheap, and too easy for some of you apparently and you need to think of dumber ideas.
 

Yes, that’s what I want, a videotape to give to the police of someone raping my wife and daughter while I’m away for work...

[canopy]

20 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

Yes, that’s what I want, a videotape to give to the police of someone raping my wife and daughter while I’m away for work...

 

 

Dumb approach. That's why it is so important to get a camera with a sim card. Because once they are gone, forget it. The beauty of the camera approach is the police arrive as the thieves are breaking in / loading their truck with your stuff. And you have footage of the whole thing. So of course this approach is just too good, too cheap, and too easy for most people. So they continue to think of inferior ideas that cost more, are clumsy, and not as effective.

 

[starky]

On 8/7/2018 at 9:23 PM, NCC1701A said:

I thought a farang can't own guns in Thailand.

 

Did I get bad info?

 

 

Nope that's correct, we used to be able to get firearms licenses as well but as of last year no new licenses for firearms will be issued to falangs. What a lot of gun nuts do is get their missus to get a firearms license then buy her a gun even though they are not allowed to shoot, carry or even have it in their possession it makes them feel all warm and fuzzy just having it around.