Nationwide [UK] Screws its Customers Overseas Even Harder

[Oxx]

Just received notification from Nationwide Building Society that:

 

Quote

"From 8 October 2018, our non-sterling transaction fee for debit card payments and ATM cash withdrawals will be increasing from 2% to 2.75%"

 

It's not that long ago that the fee was 0%.

 

And, of course, this is on top of the £1 fixed fee for using a foreign ATM (plus the outrageous charges of the Thai banks on top of that).

 

So, suppose I withdraw the equivalent of £100 in Thailand, after Nationwide fees, that's £96.25.  Convert to THB, that's 4189 baht (using VISA's current published rate of 

43.53).  Deduct the 220 baht Thai ATM fee, and you actually get 3970 baht.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, Oxx said:

Deduct the 220 baht Thai ATM fee, and you actually get 3970 baht.

Get money over the counter at a bank, no ATM fee

[topt]

2% I think is probably pretty low compared to most of the other financial institutions so you could argue you were getting away with it before......

 

I agree though if you were used to it (and the 0% rate before) then it is a bitter pill.

[Samuel Smith]

Use Transferwise...

[KittenKong]

Not everything is going backwards.

 

Natwest have just released a new credit card that has no foreign exchange weighting at all for usage or withdrawals (withdrawal fee still applies). It also has a low interest rate of 9.9%, though that doesnt concern me.

 

I also got a Starling bank debit card which currently applies no charges at all to overseas payments or withdrawals. It also pays interest on my credit balance. However it is just a debit card which makes it somewhat less attractive than a credit card.

 

I also have a Revolut card that works well, but they have introduced some sneaky usage fees, and being a pre-payment card it is intrinsically less attractive.

[Pib]

Jun 18 article on UK bank debit card non-sterling transaction fees...shows the fees charged by various banks.  Seems 2.75% and 2.99% are preferred numbers...maybe these are considered lucky numbers for banksters. 

 

https://www.lovemoney.com/bestbuys/1573/best-debit-cards-use-abroad-foreign-usage-fees-top-current-account-holiday-spending

[mekko]

Loads of ways around this - Transferwise,  Starling, N26, Monzo, Revolut, etc.. then just link your Nationwide debit card and top-up as you go. You can't escape the insane rip off local ATM fees though charge by the Thai banks. 

[alanrchase]

I struggle to understand why people don't open a Thai bank account. I transfer money free from my foreign bank and get just below the "spot rate" of exchange. 

[Kwasaki]

Ditched Nationwide years ago use visa card in Thailand and pay monthly with money from England bank a/c.

If I want cash I go to Thai bank counter with passport & UK debit card. 

Main pension paid direct to Thailand bank. 

[Kwasaki]

1 minute ago, alanrchase said:

I struggle to understand why people don't open a Thai bank account. I transfer money free from my foreign bank and get just below the "spot rate" of exchange. 

It's not free for most. 

[wwest5829]

7 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

It's not free for most. 

Agreed. I have my monthly amount transferred vis NYC Bangkok Bank Branch and it shows in my Thai Bangkok Bank in 2 business days. Both my US bank and a 200 baht fee from Bangkok Bank on the $2000 USD transfer. Brits can do the same using the London Branch from what I have been told.

Edited July 26, 2018 by wwest5829

[fxe1200]

14 hours ago, Samuel Smith said:

Use Transferwise...

....the perfect solution for every farang living in Thailand.

[mekko]

8 minutes ago, fxe1200 said:

....the perfect solution for every farang living in Thailand.

Whilst nothing is free, you can see that rate from Transferwise on GBP to THB for a bank transfer to a local bank (TW do within country deposits so no 0.5% skimmed)  is just slightly lower than today's MC interchange rate on a 0% currency card https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/consumers/get-support/convert-currency.html to get 26109.95thb would cost 600gbp via TW and 597.36gbp IF and big if you have a 0% markup debit card with no foreign ATM fees or %, and cash limit upto 600 (revolut, monzo, etc dont), and you do a counter withdrawl at a Thai bank (and dont get knocked back and no commission charge and happy to authorize that amount), then sure a card can maybe win by a tiny amount, but with all the later conditions and pissing about, then at least ten minute wait to save 2.64gbp I'm quity happy to use TW. TransferWise is awesome  

Edited July 26, 2018 by mekko

[Jip99]

51 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Ditched Nationwide years ago use visa card in Thailand and pay monthly with money from England bank a/c.

If I want cash I go to Thai bank counter with passport & UK debit card. 

Main pension paid direct to Thailand bank. 

 

 

An excellent visa card.

 

Nationwide has long since lost it's benefits for expats, since the introduction of ATM fees etc. Expensive for SWIFT transfers.

[Jip99]

20 minutes ago, fxe1200 said:

....the perfect solution for every farang living in Thailand.

 

 

+1

 

Also, the only place I know where you can fix a rate over the weekend.

[Kwasaki]

36 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

+1

 

Also, the only place I know where you can fix a rate over the weekend.

Can you apply on - line 

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Kwasaki said:

Can you apply on - line 

 

?  You mean for a transfer over the weekend ?...... Yes, live rates are offered and the Baht amount fixed - usually in your Thai bank the next working day.

 

Apologies if I misunderstood your question ...... if you meant register with TW online - also yes.

 

https://transferwise.com/register#/

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, alanrchase said:

I struggle to understand why people don't open a Thai bank account. I transfer money free from my foreign bank and get just below the "spot rate" of exchange. 

I do have a Thai bank account. In fact I have several. But I also have a UK credit card which I use extensively for online payments, purchases in other countries, purchases made in the UK when I'm there, car rental deposits and other similar things.

 

Using a UK credit card gives me significant purchase protection that simply is not available on cards issued elsewhere, particularly Thailand. My card also gives me the official Mastercard exchange rate, with no deductions (for example, a hotel I recently reserved via Booking.com was billed at 44.05B to the GBP).

 

My Thai bank accounts do not offer anything at all suitable for the above purposes, though I do use my Thai debit card for things like my Thai Spotify subscription, and local purchases of things costing more than a couple of thousand Baht.

[alanrchase]

17 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I do have a Thai bank account. In fact I have several. But I also have a UK credit card which I use extensively for online payments, purchases in other countries, purchases made in the UK when I'm there, car rental deposits and other similar things.

 

Using a UK credit card gives me significant purchase protection that simply is not available on cards issued elsewhere, particularly Thailand. My card also gives me the official Mastercard exchange rate, with no deductions (for example, a hotel I recently reserved via Booking.com was billed at 44.05B to the GBP).

 

My Thai bank accounts do not offer anything at all suitable for the above purposes, though I do use my Thai debit card for things like my Thai Spotify subscription, and local purchases of things costing more than a couple of thousand Baht.

I don't quite see your point. I have a UK debit card for online purchases but do not use it for daily living expenses. Life would be great if I only needed one bank account. 

[KittenKong]

Transferwise do charge a transfer fee of around GBP7-9 for a GBP1000 transfer.

 

The rate they would apply at the time of writing is 43.857

 

My credit card would apply a rate of 43.854, with no fee. Plus I would be getting interest on the money for several weeks before actually having to pay the bill.

 

That said, if I wanted to have THB cash for use here then my credit card would not be good value due to cash withdrawal fees and Thai ATM fees.
If I make a transfer from my UK bank to here then I pay nothing for the transfer itself, though I do pay the standard incoming fee for foreign transfers imposed by Thai banks (.25% capped at 500B), and also I will get the Thai bank exchange rate which will probably not be as good as the Transferwise rate. On the plus side, I would get an FET form and would be able to easily export the money again if needed.

 

There is also the (minor) issue of what happens if Transferwise were to go bust during a transfer. As far as I'm aware in that case the user is a simple unsecured creditor. My money is entirely safe and entirely guaranteed with both my UK credit card provider and my UK bank.

 

So it is very much swings and roundabouts, and I think there is no single best solution. A mixture of solutions is required, depending on the amount involved and the way it is being spent here.

[KittenKong]

3 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

I don't quite see your point. I have a UK debit card for online purchases but do not use it for daily living expenses.

My point was that with the right UK card you could use it very cheaply for everything here (apart from cash withdrawals), and it could also be of significant use online and elsewhere. A Thai bank account is much less useful globally.

 

As I mentioned, one would need both to get the best value.

[Jip99]

6 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

 

 

There is also the (minor) issue of what happens if Transferwise were to go bust during a transfer. As far as I'm aware in that case the user is a simple unsecured creditor. My money is entirely safe and entirely guaranteed with both my UK credit card provider and my UK bank.

 

 

https://transferwise.com/help/article/2897714/borderless-account/is-my-money-covered-by-a-financial-protection-scheme

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that is horses for courses but another factor for me is the desktop convenience vs a visit to the nearest town to make a credit card withdrawal.

 

 

The free over the counter 200,000 Baht withdrawal remains an anomaly in the world of charging for bank services.

[alanrchase]

7 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

My point was that with the right UK card you could use it very cheaply for everything here (apart from cash withdrawals), and it could also be of significant use online and elsewhere. A Thai bank account is much less useful globally.

 

As I mentioned, one would need both to get the best value.

Ok. So if you live in Thailand open a Thai bank account.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, mekko said:

Whilst nothing is free, you can see that rate from Transferwise on GBP to THB for a bank transfer to a local bank (TW do within country deposits so no 0.5% skimmed)  is just slightly lower than today's MC interchange rate on a 0% currency card https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/consumers/get-support/convert-currency.html to get 26109.95thb would cost 600gbp via TW and 597.36gbp IF and big if you have a 0% markup debit card with no foreign ATM fees or %, and cash limit upto 600 (revolut, monzo, etc dont), and you do a counter withdrawl at a Thai bank (and dont get knocked back and no commission charge and happy to authorize that amount), then sure a card can maybe win by a tiny amount, but with all the later conditions and pissing about, then at least ten minute wait to save 2.64gbp I'm quity happy to use TW. TransferWise is awesome  

And they now have a Borderless Card, which you can load up with almost any currencies you like. Works like a dream.

[peterb17]

2 hours ago, alanrchase said:

I struggle to understand why people don't open a Thai bank account. I transfer money free from my foreign bank and get just below the "spot rate" of exchange. 

I use online banking at Barclays - send in £ - arrives at my Kbank account the next day - has been totally reliable .

Barclays charges a flat rate £8 fee for the service . Not bad at all and very easy. 

[KittenKong]

9 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

https://transferwise.com/help/article/2897714/borderless-account/is-my-money-covered-by-a-financial-protection-scheme

I believe that information only relates to their borderless accounts. I dont think that actual transfers are covered to the same extent.

[KittenKong]

8 minutes ago, alanrchase said:

Ok. So if you live in Thailand open a Thai bank account.

Indeed, but I think one needs both to get the best value.

[KittenKong]

12 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

agree that is horses for courses but another factor for me is the desktop convenience vs a visit to the nearest town to make a credit card withdrawal.

Convenience is indeed a significant factor and I would not want to use my credit card for cash withdrawals under any circumstances.

[Jip99]

2 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I believe that information only relates to their borderless accounts. I dont think that actual transfers are covered to the same extent.

 

 

Yes, apologies.

 

I was looking for a response re protection and jumped in a bit hastily on that link ?

[mekko]

21 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I believe that information only relates to their borderless accounts. I dont think that actual transfers are covered to the same extent.

You can maintain money in your borderless account in Sterling before doing the transfer I think that would cover you, even if just for a few minutes, no reason not to have a borderless account thats emptied on topup, rather than just booking a transfer. For transfer safety though do a small 20 quid transaction first to make sure all the swift and numbers are correct, I've never had an issue with them