Thai govt 'must urgently tackle teacher debt crisis'

[nahkit]

4 hours ago, Tchooptip said:

I did not bother to answer this (wilfully?)  ignorance comment since the only goal was to try to make everyone laugh by ridicule all that is Thai?

No, its there in the op if you can read:-

 

" If unable to clear their debts in one single payment, recipients need pay only the interest until they die, after which their outstanding debt is cleared with money from a funeral fund to which all members are required to contribute Bt1, or by applying their own life insurance death benefits.  "

[Redline]

So they are blaming the government because they made loans too appealing ?

It is fair to require insurance because they require it for a mortgage as well.

Every one cries when it’s time to act responsible here.

I guess it starts when you can’t fail you classes then n school?

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Absolutely,

 

But the problem is that they are so over extended they cannot afford to pay it back during their lifetime.

 

Meanwhile who WILL repay the money? 

 

The banks and loan associations cannot afford to write it off and neither can the government.

The interest rate does seem excessive,so there is surely latitude there. The banks are partly responsible and I see no reason why some can't be written off as a default. And the government simply has to take a hit as well, after all they were complicit too.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

10 hours ago, mommysboy said:

A very good question, to which I honestly don't have an answer.  Certainly, at the start of their career they are paid a pittance.  Teaching has always been a poor yet noble profession, and it was always the way to make their lives easier by receiving some recompense from the public purse by way of compensation for a long career in the public service.  This Frankenstein monster of a scheme, seems to have been constructed along those lines, but instead has been converted to the worst possible loan scheme.

 

Teachers, in particular, appear to top the 'mug list'. When one goes in to business- any business- one has to learn what profit and loss means.  Public sector workers simply seem to remain clueless most of their lives, teachers even more so.  I met many that seem to rather over inflate their worth, while expecting to be provided with all good things as a matter of right.

 

I would like to add my own question: why is it that those who most fervently advocate a life of prudence and frugality, are the least likely to follow that life themselves?

The answer to the question is simply that Teachers are also everyday normal people. They want some luxury in there lives for there hard labour and just like everyne else they would like to own there own home one day and a car. In which case major purchases like this usually requires a Bank Loan. 

 

It is really actually quite funny for me to read all these people here Preaching and Lecturing Teachers about all the wrongs of borrowing money. Yet I know that there is not one of us here who at least one time in our life weren't in some finacial difficulty. An unexpected loss of a job, over extending our credit on a nice vacation, or a mariage break-up.  What did Jesus say again about who can cast the first stone?

 

Does it surprise people here that in most of America and Europe, and I a sure Australa to, that people today are up to there eye balls in debt? That there debts far exceed there assests? Which includes Teachers there to! So why pick on Thai Teachers when all you have to do is look in your own back yard. Or yourself!    

[scorecard]

9 hours ago, connda said:

What the governments need to do is to create laws to stop banks and other lending institutions from engaging in high-risk, predatory lending practices.  Now they lend to people who don't have the ability to repay loans that they are offered by these lenders.  Banks and lenders have a fiduciary responsibility NOT to offer loans to those who are over-extended or will be unable to service the debt in the future.  This is a problem that greedy lenders created all by themselves, ie, greed trumps risk management.  That's a flawed business model.  So lenders screw up, over-extend their own balance sheets by issuing high-risk loan, and them demand that the governments become their 'enforcers'.  Sound about like mafia tactics. 

 

Should do what a few magistrates did in the early days of Bankcard in some Australian states.

 

Bank sues cardholder for unpaid cc debt, debtor confirms debt, magistrate gives a court order for repayment and a court order that debtor cannot have credit card again for 20 year and old debt paid.

 

Magistrate now demands bank show documents detailing credit check, bank lawyers say smugly 'we don't keep these records', magistrate fines bank for dereliction, etc.

 

In one famous case the lawyer for the bank tries to strongly smugly challenge the authority of the court. Magistrate quickly ends the challenge by saying 'for every cent repaid by the debtor bank must match that money cent for cent and donate the lot to a list of children's charities. Banks got the message quick smart, started proper credit assessments, and kept records and stopped giving multiple new cards to poor risk customers. 

[Trouble]

14 hours ago, colinneil said:

So you advocate making thousands of children homeless?

The banks need to stop lending money to people who have not enough income to pay back.

You are correct in that banks need to stop loaning money to people who can't pay it back.  But this problem is endemic everywhere.  Students here in the US want loan forgiveness and some in politics seem to favor this.  Every time governments try to help people with programs they screw it up and cause bigger problems.  These teachers are supposed to be teaching the young to be smart and it is themselves who are stupid enough to take loans they can't repay.  Look a credit card debt.  People everywhere spending money they don't have on things they can't afford.  

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

The answer to the question is simply that Teachers are also everyday normal people. They want some luxury in there lives for there hard labour and just like everyne else they would like to own there own home one day and a car. In which case major purchases like this usually requires a Bank Loan. 

 

It is really actually quite funny for me to read all these people here Preaching and Lecturing Teachers about all the wrongs of borrowing money. Yet I know that there is not one of us here who at least one time in our life weren't in some finacial difficulty. An unexpected loss of a job, over extending our credit on a nice vacation, or a mariage break-up.  What did Jesus say again about who can cast the first stone?

 

Does it surprise people here that in most of America and Europe, and I a sure Australa to, that people today are up to there eye balls in debt? That there debts far exceed there assests? Which includes Teachers there to! So why pick on Thai Teachers when all you have to do is look in your own back yard. Or yourself!    

Well you certainly haven't read any of my other postings! But anyway...

 

Indeed, only last week BBC (UK) reported that personal debt levels have now reached record highs. I do think there are 2 sides to the coin, and most people only want to hear the one about financial irresponsibility.  Now, I do believe that we live in an age where people seemed to have forgotten financial prudence.  However, for me the problem is that we are coming to the end of a financial system that perhaps served us adequately last century, but not this.  Quite simply, people are getting poorer, and what was considered an ok job a couple of decades ago now won't even cover the bills.

[mommysboy]

52 minutes ago, Trouble said:

You are correct in that banks need to stop loaning money to people who can't pay it back.  But this problem is endemic everywhere.  Students here in the US want loan forgiveness and some in politics seem to favor this.  Every time governments try to help people with programs they screw it up and cause bigger problems.  These teachers are supposed to be teaching the young to be smart and it is themselves who are stupid enough to take loans they can't repay.  Look a credit card debt.  People everywhere spending money they don't have on things they can't afford.  

Well you speak some good old fashioned common sense imo, but don't you think governments and big business are not somewhat complicit in all this? Also, the numbers of people in poverty in most countries seems to be growing; is this all due to their personal incompetence?

[Shiver]

There's no unemployment here, because of things like teachers being guarantor for loans to students to fund their purpose as a teacher.

 

Why doesn't the loan company just give it away direct, cut out the students, and let them educate themselves rather than pay for schooling from someone that doesn't understand how to make a ">0" contribution to society themselves.

 

If they kept money out of the equation and had knowledge to impart, they would get by just fine from 'appreciation gifts' of food and shelter.

 

This is not just Thailand, but a very significant proportion of the planet.  Many variants of the same issue.

 

 

[kannot]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

The interest rate does seem excessive,so there is surely latitude there. The banks are partly responsible and I see no reason why some can't be written off as a default. And the government simply has to take a hit as well, after all they were complicit too.  

and those 80% who did pay off the debts at the full interest rate  ?? get a refund do they?

[kannot]

3 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Yet I know that there is not one of us here who at least one time in our life weren't in some finacial difficulty

speak for yourself.

[mommysboy]

59 minutes ago, kannot said:

and those 80% who did pay off the debts at the full interest rate  ?? get a refund do they?

I'm not sure 80% have- the only ways to pay off are in one lumpsum of the principle loan, or die. I don't suppose those 6 feet under will come back and complain?.

 

But quite possibly yes, because this is most likely a very dodgy scheme.  Those really in trouble, were loaned far too much money- the banks were complicit in that imo.

 

You are in business so know the score- everyone has to factor in bad debts.  And you have to suck it up when you make a mistake.  I don't see why the banks should be excluded from this basic axiom- in fact them least of all. 

 

 But basically, all parties are at fault and all should pay.

Edited July 30, 2018 by mommysboy

[Rhys]

... part of the process, and the trap of want...  some live within their means and some.. well there is another day as they believe...

[mommysboy]

3 minutes ago, Rhys said:

... part of the process, and the trap of want...  some live within their means and some.. well there is another day as they believe...

Cane and Abel again?

 

I guess there's some truth in everything. 

Edited July 30, 2018 by mommysboy

[lamyai3]

14 hours ago, Redline said:

So they are blaming the government because they made loans too appealing ?

It is fair to require insurance because they require it for a mortgage as well.

Every one cries when it’s time to act responsible here.

I guess it starts when you can’t fail you classes then n school?

In the West they'd have been done for misselling. 

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

In the West they'd have been done for misselling. 

Precisely, but you know the old acronym: altogether now.......

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 hours ago, kannot said:

speak for yourself.

Well quite frankly, I don't beleive for a second that you in all your life never had any financial difficuties from anything that may have happened to you in your life. So Boo Hoo to You!

 

Unless of course you were born rich? Which in that case you shouldn't be commenting on poor people who had to borrow money to make ends meet. 

[GOLDBUGGY]

11 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

Should do what a few magistrates did in the early days of Bankcard in some Australian states.

 

Bank sues cardholder for unpaid cc debt, debtor confirms debt, magistrate gives a court order for repayment and a court order that debtor cannot have credit card again for 20 year and old debt paid.

 

Magistrate now demands bank show documents detailing credit check, bank lawyers say smugly 'we don't keep these records', magistrate fines bank for dereliction, etc.

 

In one famous case the lawyer for the bank tries to strongly smugly challenge the authority of the court. Magistrate quickly ends the challenge by saying 'for every cent repaid by the debtor bank must match that money cent for cent and donate the lot to a list of children's charities. Banks got the message quick smart, started proper credit assessments, and kept records and stopped giving multiple new cards to poor risk customers. 

Can't see how the bank lost in this judgement and as you say or think. 

 

First of all the Debtor now can't have a Credit Card again for 20 years but still has to pay off his old debts first according to the judge and your statement. That to me is severe punishment to the Debtor. Ever try to rent a car or hotel room, or buy something through the Internet, without a Credit Card? It can be done but it is not easy.

 

Second the bank takes the debtor to court because he is not paying them anything on money owned to them for a Credit Card Debt. Judge orders Debtor to pay up, but instead of the bank getting this money they weren't getting anyway, they need to now donate this money to charity. 

 

Bid Deal! Banks are donating money to charity organizations all the time and for years. So this cost them nothing and they can use this money as a Tax Break. But the Debtor can't have a Credit Card for20 years and is ordered to pay back every cent. If I was him I would rather that this judge was not my judge if it was me who was the Debtor.  

[dorchester]

• Has this effected the math teachers as well?

[GOLDBUGGY]

9 hours ago, kannot said:

and those 80% who did pay off the debts at the full interest rate  ?? get a refund do they?

The Majority, or most of this 80% who paid off there debts, were Phase 1 to Phase 4 Debts. With Phase 4 Debt being the highest and a maximum Loan of 200,000 Baht. It is because these Loans were considered quite low, the borrower did not have to take out additional Default Payment Insurance.

 

Most of the debts in trouble now are the higher end ones, and Phase 5, 6, and 7. Where Phase 5 is 600,000 Baht, Phase 6 is 1.2 M Baht, and Phase 7 is 3 M Baht. It is because these Loans are quite high that the Banks make the borrowers take out Default Insurance. So on a 600,000 Baht Loan the borrower has to pay an additional 34,000 Baht for Default Insurance.

 

This additional 34,000 Baht they must pay, on top of there Loan, plus Interest, represents about 6% of the total Premium, or money borrowed. That is hight! I recall a long time ago on my first house I to had to buy Mortgage Insurance, and that worked out to be about 1.5%. 

 

In my own personal view, I see the banks are screwing them dearly. Charging them 8% for a Loan, while in the West you can still get a Mortgage for under 4%, and on top of that another 6% Premium on the Money borrowed as additional Insurance, is next to Highway Robbery. So maybe some Governement Agency should take a look at this and make changes if needed.     

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

The Majority, or most of this 80% who paid off there debts, were Phase 1 to Phase 4 Debts. With Phase 4 Debt being the highest and a maximum Loan of 200,000 Baht. It is because these Loans were considered quite low, the borrower did not have to take out additional Default Payment Insurance.

 

Most of the debts in trouble now are the higher end ones, and Phase 5, 6, and 7. Where Phase 5 is 600,000 Baht, Phase 6 is 1.2 M Baht, and Phase 7 is 3 M Baht. It is because these Loans are quite high that the Banks make the borrowers take out Default Insurance. So on a 600,000 Baht Loan the borrower has to pay an additional 34,000 Baht for Default Insurance.

 

This additional 34,000 Baht they must pay, on top of there Loan, plus Interest, represents about 6% of the total Premium, or money borrowed. That is hight! I recall a long time ago on my first house I to had to buy Mortgage Insurance, and that worked out to be about 1.5%. 

 

In my own personal view, I see the banks are screwing them dearly. Charging them 8% for a Loan, while in the West you can still get a Mortgage for under 4%, and on top of that another 6% Premium on the Money borrowed as additional Insurance, is next to Highway Robbery. So maybe some Governement Agency should take a look at this and make changes if needed.     

Masterly posting.  

 

Moreover, and imo, as far as I can see the spokesman on behalf of those in trouble is merely asking for fairness.  They are not requesting that the debts be cancelled.

 

It seems to many people want to write their own version of the story, presumably so they can justify their 'hang em high' postings.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Masterly posting.  

 

Moreover, and imo, as far as I can see the spokesman on behalf of those in trouble is merely asking for fairness.  They are not requesting that the debts be cancelled.

 

It seems to many people want to write their own version of the story, presumably so they can justify their 'hang em high' postings.

I like most of your posts but your a bit naive, of course they want their debts cancelled. Unlike you i feel if you borrow far too much and bought stuff with it you will have to pay back. Unlike you i believe in own responsibility you seem to hate banks and feel that they or the government should pay. Guess what if the government pays we all pay for others their faults.

 

People who do manage their debts good get shafted while bad behavior gets rewarded. Talk about living in a strange world. First living the high life with borrowed money and then not paying back and having others pay for you.. well done sets a good example. 

Edited July 31, 2018 by robblok

[GOLDBUGGY]

7 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Masterly posting.  

 

Moreover, and imo, as far as I can see the spokesman on behalf of those in trouble is merely asking for fairness.  They are not requesting that the debts be cancelled.

 

It seems to many people want to write their own version of the story, presumably so they can justify their 'hang em high' postings.

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

Except maybe the Masterly Positng?

[cmsally]

Is it possible that the later phase loans , which were larger, were taken out to pay off the earlier phase smaller loans. If so it would mean that smaller loans were only paid back as more money was borrowed! 

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

I like most of your posts but your a bit naive, of course they want their debts cancelled. Unlike you i feel if you borrow far too much and bought stuff with it you will have to pay back. Unlike you i believe in own responsibility you seem to hate banks and feel that they or the government should pay. Guess what if the government pays we all pay for others their faults.

 

People who do manage their debts good get shafted while bad behavior gets rewarded. Talk about living in a strange world. First living the high life with borrowed money and then not paying back and having others pay for you.. well done sets a good example. 

There is nothing mentioned anywhere where is says these Teachers want there Debts Cancelled. So maybe read again and post where it says they do. 

 

It is easy for me to see that you are the Naive One. I always feel that to get to understand somebody elses situtation, you need to walk a mile in there shoes. 

 

It is so easy for you to go back home to a Bank and get a fare Mortgage for under 4%. With your Government keeping a watchful eye on this and Banks. But what if you lived in a society where all banks would only give you a Mortgage at double the rate, and 8%, or not at all? Plus on top of the double mortgage, you also had to pay an additional 6% for Default Mortgage Insurance? 

 

So do you continue to pay rent the rest of your life with constant rental increases, and not the luxury of owning your own home? Or do you try to swing things the best you can, so you have your own place to call home?

 

Like I said, it is easy from the outside looking in, but not so easy being on the inside and looking out.   

[GOLDBUGGY]

9 minutes ago, cmsally said:

Is it possible that the later phase loans , which were larger, were taken out to pay off the earlier phase smaller loans. If so it would mean that smaller loans were only paid back as more money was borrowed! 

With some 400,000+ Teachers, I am sure some of this happened exactly this way. Just like some people we know who borrowed money from one Credit Card, to make Minimum Payments to the other Credit Card Companies. In so doing not decreasing there payments or debt levels owed. 

 

But we also know that this type of borrowing is not sustainable and soon the cat is out of the bag. We also know this is few and far between the average borrowers. As the Post says, many Teachers are losing there Houses, which they must have purchased through a Loan to be able to have this happen. 

 

No! People are not perfect! I am sure like everyone else some borrowing was done on things they did not absolutely need at that time. But for House or Car, you pretty well need a bank Loan to buy it these days. With Housing Prices constanly going up, by the time you saved the money to buy the house, the price would be double.  

 

I knew one guy well that when it came to any major purchase or appliance, he bought it on Credit. Not just a House or Car, but a Sofa, Refrigerator, Stove,TV, Furniture, Car Maintenance and Fuel, and you name it. Used Cash only for paying his Minimum Payment on Bills charging 18% Interest, and fun times and vacations. That was My Father! Who taught me to never be in debt if I can help it.   

[wealthychef]

I must be the only one here thinking this:  why does education put people in debt?  A civilized society should give education free to all citizens, especially teachers.  They should not need student loans.  When your citizens are educated your society benefits enormously. 

And when they rape their student, they should go to jail,  but that's another subject I guess.  

 

[robblok]

53 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

There is nothing mentioned anywhere where is says these Teachers want there Debts Cancelled. So maybe read again and post where it says they do. 

 

It is easy for me to see that you are the Naive One. I always feel that to get to understand somebody elses situtation, you need to walk a mile in there shoes. 

 

It is so easy for you to go back home to a Bank and get a fare Mortgage for under 4%. With your Government keeping a watchful eye on this and Banks. But what if you lived in a society where all banks would only give you a Mortgage at double the rate, and 8%, or not at all? Plus on top of the double mortgage, you also had to pay an additional 6% for Default Mortgage Insurance? 

  

So do you continue to pay rent the rest of your life with constant rental increases, and not the luxury of owning your own home? Or do you try to swing things the best you can, so you have your own place to call home?

 

Like I said, it is easy from the outside looking in, but not so easy being on the inside and looking out.   

Yea right.. thing is i seen many of these people far more then you ever have as I worked with people like that who got in over their had back home. So if you think I have no clue, think again. I worked with a company that helped people who were into debt. It was almost always caused by overspending on luxury items.

I guess you havent read the news about the 1,5 million new cars bought ? The cause is overspending living without their means and now they want others to finance it. 

 

Go back home.. I had a mortgage here at the prices you mentioned so tell me how do I not know. When you take a debt you check if you can afford it if not you don't take it. Its that simple. 

 

Your sentiment about a home.. I would only buy a home within my means and most Thais don't buy homes because they are real transient. Not many put down real roots as their jobs can move a lot. 

 

Like i said.. if you can't pay don't buy a new car ore an expensive home. Why don't you pay for them if you feel so badly for them.  I feel that people should live within their means and if they don't tough luck for them. These teachers had more salary as the average Thai so what does that say ? 

[pornprong]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I like most of your posts but your a bit naive, of course they want their debts cancelled. Unlike you i feel if you borrow far too much and bought stuff with it you will have to pay back. Unlike you i believe in own responsibility you seem to hate banks and feel that they or the government should pay. Guess what if the government pays we all pay for others their faults.

 

People who do manage their debts good get shafted while bad behavior gets rewarded. Talk about living in a strange world. First living the high life with borrowed money and then not paying back and having others pay for you.. well done sets a good example. 

"Personal responsibility" is right wing code for "everyone should suffer and die but me."

 

Of course all of these evil, selfish, greedy teachers borrowed all of this money to buy luxury items like cars, iphones and the latest fashions..........none of them were faced with medical or legal or education bills, none of them were struggling to raise families in one of the worlds most unequal societies, none them took out loans to help out struggling family members get by.  

 

Nope, they were all just living the "high life".

 

Repeat - "Personal responsibility" is right wing code for "everyone should suffer and die except me."

 

Some reading for those amongst us with with a brain (and heart) two sizes too small:

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/mind/poor-people-may-make-bad-decisions-but-you-would-too-if-you-had-no-money/news-story/6f62db36a1eccc1b7d17d5b93321d20c

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/poverty-uk-money-debt-borrowing-regualtors-credit-banking-poor-people-households-a8266261.html

http://addictinginfo.com/2012/10/14/welfare-queen-myth-must-die/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/16/government-policy-poor-people-debt-benefits-universal-credit

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jan/16/quarter-of-uks-poorest-households-are-getting-deeper-in-debt-ifs-warns

 

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, pornprong said:

"Personal responsibility" is right wing code for "everyone should suffer and die but me."

 

Of course all of these evil, selfish, greedy teachers borrowed all of this money to buy luxury items like cars, iphones and the latest fashions..........none of them were faced with medical or legal or education bills, none of them were struggling to raise families in one of the worlds most unequal societies, none them took out loans to help out struggling family members get by.  

 

Nope, they were all just living the "high life".

 

Repeat - "Personal responsibility" is right wing code for "everyone should suffer and die except me."

 

Some reading for those amongst us with with a brain (and heart) two sizes too small:

 

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/mind/poor-people-may-make-bad-decisions-but-you-would-too-if-you-had-no-money/news-story/6f62db36a1eccc1b7d17d5b93321d20c

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/poverty-uk-money-debt-borrowing-regualtors-credit-banking-poor-people-households-a8266261.html

http://addictinginfo.com/2012/10/14/welfare-queen-myth-must-die/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/16/government-policy-poor-people-debt-benefits-universal-credit

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2018/jan/16/quarter-of-uks-poorest-households-are-getting-deeper-in-debt-ifs-warns

 

Yea if you feel so much for them pay for them. 

 

I mean 1,5 million cars bough the first half year.. many on credit.. nah.. overspending is not a problem.

 

There might be a small percentage of people who had legal or educational bills but that is not the majority of people who get in debt. 

 

Oh and left wing speech for sharing burden is that the lef wing rabble will say people should share the burden and then they point at someone else who has to pay.. but not them.. no never them. 

 

Those who pay of their debt, they never get help.. being good will not result in help (living within your means saving  means no help).. only when you screw up overspend  you get help. So bad behavior gets rewarded.. so left wing. 

 

 

Edited July 31, 2018 by robblok