Thai govt 'must urgently tackle teacher debt crisis'

[robblok]

7 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Read the second part to this Post were is says (and I quote) “But now the interest rate has increased to 8 per cent,” he complained.  

 

Gosh! Now you have me chasing for your Post to prove you are wrong as you are too lazy to do that yourself or even read them. Well that was the last one I will do for you. 

 

You should also read to know who your audiance is and who you are talking about. We are not talking about University Gradutes fresh out of school and wanting a New House and Car. These Teachers we are talking about are Seasoned Teachers with many of them with years of experience. They even talk about Retired Teachers losing there Homes for Gosh Sake!

 

So Yeah! Highly Educated  Married Teachers wanting there own home should not be out of reach for them anymore than it is for them in the Netherlands. A Modest Home for 1.2 M Baht should be within there means. And Please read the Post before you comment more!.    

Other reports contradict this mate, so I am not sure about the interest percentage. You do know that there are now around 5 to 6 articles about this. These articles are contradicting themselves including the ones about the debt crisis in the BKK post, so its totally unclear what the interest percentage is.

 

So if that is the audience we are talking about then why did you mention the low starting salary that only applies to beginning teachers. Did you either do that to make a fake point or now just realize who the audience is. Seasoned teacher make 30K+ baht and with that could easily pay for a 1.2 million house that is not bad at all. That would eat up only around 9.000 bt from their salary that is just 1/3rd. Now if they want a truck that would make up an other 6-7000. So it still doable unless they have bought far more expensive things.  Don't forget just like in the Netherland many people work together couples. So you can add to that income still.

So IMHO it still looks like they took loans out far higher then they could afford. Do you want me to give the examples in the article with teachers that have far higher debt then 2 million. If you read you would have noticed that. I did not use those examples because i assumed these were the ones with highest loans not the average. That would only cloud the issue. 

 

Yes I agree a modest home of 1.2 should be in reach and would be with their salary. You seen the calculation 1.2 at 8% is max 9000 while in other articles the interest was mentioned at between 5 and 7 percent (in line with the current rates in this country). That would make the monthly payment a LOT lower. So if like you said a modest home should be in their reach and it is based on cold hard figures why is their debt a lot higher then that.... probably because they did not go for  a modest home.

 

Sure there are always exceptions divorce, sickness loss of job (though almost impossible here as a teacher). But i doubt that is the majority of those complaining about debt. 

 

As for wanting to refinance.. I am all for that if they pay 8% that is above market rate. That should be examined but if you take out a debt it states what percentage your going to pay for how many years. So its not as if they did not know what they were getting into. 

 

[robblok]

6 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

You blame the banks for that. When people stop paying debt, good customers pay. You are right, because they put in their terms they can do whatever the hell they want. 

 

That is the big mistake I feel people always make. They say, "if so and so don't pay back their debt, I have to pay more". That is true, bit you blame the banks! Not the guy who pays for his grandma's $20,000 surgery. Same situation in the insurance industries. People get the blame, but it is always the greedy corporations who deserve the blame. 

No its not the greedy corporation who is to blame (not fully). They have a amount of profit they want to make. ROI its called and to get to the profit all cost are calculated so also those that default and to make up for that others pay extra. Its a fact, same as that some of my clients charge higher prices because they know some of their clients wont pay. My clients are small businesses. So yea other people are paying when you default.

 

The only thing is in the west the banks have more duty of care then here. Though when the EX took finance they did look at ability to repay. I guess it was different for teachers.. they got easy money.

[robblok]

5 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

There should be much more pushback from society onto these banking and credit card companies.

 

I honestly do not think the average person realizes or puts the time into thinking about how bad they are sticking it to everyone.

 

First, you essentially have to have a credit score to function in society. You can't rent an apartment without a good credit score. So, right there you are forced into using their products. 

 

So everyone is forced into using their products, and guess what, they get a piece of every single credit card transaction. Did you just buy something from amazon, or purchase a flight? The cc company got 2-3% of that from the vendor. 

 

We are forced into using them, and then they collect fees every single time they are used. Just imagine getting a peice of pretty much every single transaction worldwide. Imagine if you opened a company and sold stereos, and every single person had to buy stereos from you. It sounds insane and yes, it is. It is criminal as far as I am concerned. That is just scraping the surface too. 

I don't know what you did for a job but your not an economist or have much knowledge about it. You seem to think that banking services should be free. Could you explain to me why its just a business like others.

 

Where I come from your credit score does not matter much at all they look at your income so don't act like its all the same over the world.

 

As for credit card companies and banks taking a cut from the companies that sell things on line i feel that is totally normal. Because without the banks service they would have a lot harder time to get that money. You obviously have never done any accounting of those companies. I do accounting for a lot of companies that sell stuff online. They gladly pay the 2-3% as it opens up a wider market and allows them to send their products fast.  If they had to wait for bank transfers (no 2-3%) and then check manually who paid it would be far harder. Now they have build in software that takes a lot of work away from them, that works with those credit cards.

 

We got an other system in the Netherlands called ideal you pay with your debit card but you still pay a fee but the merchant has the money straight away. Does not have to wait for money to come by bank transfer does not have to manually check incoming money (time consuming) and because it is so easy sells more. 

 

Why do you think that banks who make such systems should do so for free ? Paypal, Transferwise.. whatever you all pay a fee seems logical if you use their service. 

 

Nobody forces you to use the creditcard.. you could do a bank transfer (cheaper) but you would have to wait longer for your product and the seller would have more work. The choice is yours nobody forces you to use a credit card. I almost never use one. 

[pornprong]

11 minutes ago, robblok said:

I don't know what you did for a job but your not an economist or have much knowledge about it. You seem to think that banking services should be free. Could you explain to me why its just a business like others.

 

Where I come from your credit score does not matter much at all they look at your income so don't act like its all the same over the world.

 

As for credit card companies and banks taking a cut from the companies that sell things on line i feel that is totally normal. Because without the banks service they would have a lot harder time to get that money. You obviously have never done any accounting of those companies. I do accounting for a lot of companies that sell stuff online. They gladly pay the 2-3% as it opens up a wider market and allows them to send their products fast.  If they had to wait for bank transfers (no 2-3%) and then check manually who paid it would be far harder. Now they have build in software that takes a lot of work away from them, that works with those credit cards.

 

We got an other system in the Netherlands called ideal you pay with your debit card but you still pay a fee but the merchant has the money straight away. Does not have to wait for money to come by bank transfer does not have to manually check incoming money (time consuming) and because it is so easy sells more. 

 

Why do you think that banks who make such systems should do so for free ? Paypal, Transferwise.. whatever you all pay a fee seems logical if you use their service. 

 

Nobody forces you to use the creditcard.. you could do a bank transfer (cheaper) but you would have to wait longer for your product and the seller would have more work. The choice is yours nobody forces you to use a credit card. I almost never use one. 

https://www.smh.com.au/national/access-to-credit--a-human-right-says-the-father-of-microfinance-20141009-113j3x.html

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, pornprong said:

https://www.smh.com.au/national/access-to-credit--a-human-right-says-the-father-of-microfinance-20141009-113j3x.html

Could you just reply to posts instead of posting non relevant links ?

[Elkski]

I have been told the protesting teachers are all retired.  Because the non retired teachers can't attend protests for fear of article 44 , salary cut and or being fired if the army catches them there. Sad f in country. 

[wealthychef]

13 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

That is a good point. Especially when you consider how much money goes into defense and military equipment. In the Old Communist System University Education was provided free to the brightest students. The not so bright where able to go to Technical Schools to learn some trade. 

 

In a free democratic society, I do think the education should be provided at a lower cost, and at the very least low interest loans made available. To give out free education is not feasible in Canada for instance. One of the problems Canada has is Brain Drain. 

 

So if we educate a person for free for say 7 years, and he becomes a Doctor, one of the first things he will do is move to the USA, or Overseas, where he can earn double the money. So no pay back to the country that educated him for free.

 

 

Somehow Germany manages to do it and it benefits them.  https://www.quora.com/How-does-Germany-benefit-by-providing-free-education The truth is that it benefits a country even if only 10% of the students stay.  In Thailand, that number will be higher, I think, as Thais seem very loyal to their beloved King and country.  

 

What actually happens with free education?  You end up with more smart people living in your country.  I would say this would benefit Thailand very very much.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

9 hours ago, robblok said:

Other reports contradict this mate, so I am not sure about the interest percentage. You do know that there are now around 5 to 6 articles about this. These articles are contradicting themselves including the ones about the debt crisis in the BKK post, so its totally unclear what the interest percentage is.

 

So if that is the audience we are talking about then why did you mention the low starting salary that only applies to beginning teachers. Did you either do that to make a fake point or now just realize who the audience is. Seasoned teacher make 30K+ baht and with that could easily pay for a 1.2 million house that is not bad at all. That would eat up only around 9.000 bt from their salary that is just 1/3rd. Now if they want a truck that would make up an other 6-7000. So it still doable unless they have bought far more expensive things.  Don't forget just like in the Netherland many people work together couples. So you can add to that income still.

So IMHO it still looks like they took loans out far higher then they could afford. Do you want me to give the examples in the article with teachers that have far higher debt then 2 million. If you read you would have noticed that. I did not use those examples because i assumed these were the ones with highest loans not the average. That would only cloud the issue. 

 

Yes I agree a modest home of 1.2 should be in reach and would be with their salary. You seen the calculation 1.2 at 8% is max 9000 while in other articles the interest was mentioned at between 5 and 7 percent (in line with the current rates in this country). That would make the monthly payment a LOT lower. So if like you said a modest home should be in their reach and it is based on cold hard figures why is their debt a lot higher then that.... probably because they did not go for  a modest home.

 

Sure there are always exceptions divorce, sickness loss of job (though almost impossible here as a teacher). But i doubt that is the majority of those complaining about debt. 

 

As for wanting to refinance.. I am all for that if they pay 8% that is above market rate. That should be examined but if you take out a debt it states what percentage your going to pay for how many years. So its not as if they did not know what they were getting into. 

 

No Mate! Nothing in this Post says the Interest Rate is less than 8%. It does say that it started at 3% but got increased to 8%. If you see it written someplace else at a different rate, then prove it and find a quote. If not then please don't just invent that and say it is there when it is not. 

 

Wrong Again Mate! It was not me that mentioned the low starting wage of Teachers. That was somebody else who has a friend who was a Co-Teacher (Teacher's Apprentice) who was earning 8,000 Baht a month, and another friend who was an Administrator in the school who earns 9,000 Baht a month. I know nothing about that. 

 

But personally I would have guessed the wages are higher than this. I would think a starting wage of about 15,000 Baht a month, slowly increasing to about 35,000 Baht a month over time and a lot of experience.  So an average Teachers Wage of about 25,000 Baht a month. Expat Teachers start at about $1,000 per month, or about 35,000 Baht, and they are paid better. But I am not an expert in Teachers Wages so I stand to be corrected.  

 

But I do agree that with a salary of between 20,000 to 25,000 Baht a month they should be able to float this Loan of 1.2 M Baht.  Even when 66% of there payment goes strictly to the Interest Payment and the Principle is not Ammortized.

 

But I am still not ready to sweep all this under the rug an say tough luck. They are forced to take out Default Insurance at 6% of the Principle, in case they stop making payments or die. They also have to put there house up for collateral, So with Default Insurance and a House as Collateral, why do they need to charge such Hhigh Interest Rates of 8%? 

 

Seems to me they should be able to renegotiate this rate for a lower one, and what they are trying to do now.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 hours ago, wealthychef said:

 

Somehow Germany manages to do it and it benefits them.  https://www.quora.com/How-does-Germany-benefit-by-providing-free-education The truth is that it benefits a country even if only 10% of the students stay.  In Thailand, that number will be higher, I think, as Thais seem very loyal to their beloved King and country.  

 

What actually happens with free education?  You end up with more smart people living in your country.  I would say this would benefit Thailand very very much.  

How can you call this a Free Education System for University Students? Sure you can lower the Tuition Fees and Books at the University Level, and Subsidized Food to eat, and also provide Free Public Transportation. That helps! But this is only the Tip of the Iceberg! 

 

What you are doing when you educate these people is you are also pulling them out of the Work Force for at least 4 years, so they can study and be full time students. But during all this time they still need a place to live, food to eat, and some spending money for clothes and such. If you don't come from a rich family, which many don't, then the only way you can get this is by a Student Loan, which is not Free.  

 

Sure! What a Great Society we would live in if all Education was Free! If all Medicare was Free with no line-ups to see Doctors, or to go to a Hospital, and no waiting list for an Operation. Were People at 65 Years of age could Retire in comfort on a Governement Pension, and live the life they deserve for all the years of hard work. 

 

But we don't live in a Society like this! We live in one where nothing is Free. Whether you pay for it out of your wallet, or through your high taxes. No doubt Free Education and Medicare, and a liviable Pension would benefit any Government. The only question is, who is going to pay for that? 

[Elkski]

it would be interesting to find out how this insurance company won the contract to provide this service? What is the ROI? and salary of all employee's.   I dont know why everyone thinks teachers make so little.   I know 3 government teachers.. they make from 45,ooo-55,000/ mo and i saw a salary listing and a few were up to 60,000/mo. these were 45 to 52 yr old career teachers.. and yes starting aids who may seem like real teachers make only 5,000 until they get their government commission.   all these teachers had masters degrees and could read and write well . speaking was from little to quite good. Large vocabularies. 

IF we could just follow  all the money in this scam?

[GOLDBUGGY]

8 minutes ago, Elkski said:

it would be interesting to find out how this insurance company won the contract to provide this service? What is the ROI? and salary of all employee's.   I dont know why everyone thinks teachers make so little.   I know 3 government teachers.. they make from 45,ooo-55,000/ mo and i saw a salary listing and a few were up to 60,000/mo. these were 45 to 52 yr old career teachers.. and yes starting aids who may seem like real teachers make only 5,000 until they get their government commission.   all these teachers had masters degrees and could read and write well . speaking was from little to quite good. Large vocabularies. 

IF we could just follow  all the money in this scam?

I think most were thinking of Teachers with a 4 year B.A. Degree. As you know a Masters  Degree is harder to get and takes longer.

 

So once they have that Masters Degree it would be normal for them to want more money and be paid better for that also. If they were paid the same as a B.A. then there would be no point going further into debt to get a Masters. Would there? 

 

Also Teaching at a University Level is not the same as Teaching Grade 1 in a Farm School. But Teachers are still required to do that job to.  

[melvinmelvin]

1 minute ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I think most were thinking of Teachers with a 4 year B.A. Degree. As you know a Masters  Degree is harder to get and takes longer.

 

So once they have that Masters Degree it would be normal for them to want more money and be paid better for that also. If they were paid the same as a B.A. then there would be no point going further into debt to get a Masters. Would there? 

 

Also Teaching at a University Level is not the same as Teaching Grade 1 in a Farm School. But Teachers are still required to do that job to.  

 

maybe so, and ?

 

then the government should use taxpayers money to sort out the financial mess the teachers have created by themselves?

give me a b

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

maybe so, and ?

 

then the government should use taxpayers money to sort out the financial mess the teachers have created by themselves?

give me a b

 

I would sure like to know what you guys are reading, drinking, or smoking. 

 

Nowhere did I ever see  it written that the Teachers want the Taxpayers to pay there Debts. In fact they have made it perfectly clear what they want, and it isn't a free ride.

 

Try reading that Post here instead of that nonsense you have been reading. Or more likely never read a word of this Post and just decided to jump in.  

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I would sure like to know what you guys are reading, drinking, or smoking. 

 

Nowhere did I ever see  it written that the Teachers want the Taxpayers to pay there Debts. In fact they have made it perfectly clear what they want, and it isn't a free ride.

 

Try reading that Post here instead of that nonsense you have been reading. Or more likely never read a word of this Post and just decided to jump in.  

I read the Bangkok Post and the Nation daily, I listen to the radio and I watch the news on TV.

They ask for government intervention to assist, that means taxpayers money.

 

sod off and enjoy your own nonsense, impertinent bugger

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I read the Bangkok Post and the Nation daily, I listen to the radio and I watch the news on TV.

They ask for government intervention to assist, that means taxpayers money.

 

sod off and enjoy your own nonsense, impertinent bugger

 

 

No! When they asked for Government Intervention that means they want the Governemnt to Intervene betwen them and the Government Bank lending them the money. Which also does not mean to pay there Bills for them. That part of this definition came strickly from you and your imagination.  

 

They want the Teachers Bank to lower there Interest Rates which are currently 8%. They also want to get rid if the Default Insurance they are forced to pay for to get a loan, which currently runs at 6% of the Principle. So they are not asking for a Hand Out! They are asking to renegotiate there Loans to a better Interest Rate. No harm in that!  

[Elkski]

i know not all teachers have a masters degree. i was just adding some data points because so many underestimate teachers salaries.. these are teachers in secondary school not uni.  I am not sure what should be done with these loans...   I just think its not fair to compare someone taking our a conventional loan with limits on payments of   say 30%  of net income in your home country.    This whole complicated loan scam is way over the average Thai teachers education level IMHO  and i think the banks knew this.  I have always thought ARMS were a trap.  Some of you have no compassion at all.. maybe if you spent time with a victim of this scam your would feel different? But maybe not... 

I agree all of us who always pay on time dont get any rewards. 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Elkski

[robblok]

16 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

No! When they asked for Government Intervention that means they want the Governemnt to Intervene betwen them and the Government Bank lending them the money. Which also does not mean to pay there Bills for them. That part of this definition came strickly from you and your imagination.  

 

They want the Teachers Bank to lower there Interest Rates which are currently 8%. They also want to get rid if the Default Insurance they are forced to pay for to get a loan, which currently runs at 6% of the Principle. So they are not asking for a Hand Out! They are asking to renegotiate there Loans to a better Interest Rate. No harm in that!  

If its only an intervention on the interest percentage then I see no problem. Not if they pay 7 or 8% (but other articles state 7% as the max). I am against the goverment paying their debt. Anyway seems we found common ground. I am certainly not cold or without feeling. Just hate it if governments have to pay for this.. because who is next with their loans. As for a 6% default insurance.. that is a bit much especially if its over the principle that is a lot of money each year.

[wealthychef]

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

How can you call this a Free Education System for University Students? Sure you can lower the Tuition Fees and Books at the University Level, and Subsidized Food to eat, and also provide Free Public Transportation. That helps! But this is only the Tip of the Iceberg! 

 

What you are doing when you educate these people is you are also pulling them out of the Work Force for at least 4 years, so they can study and be full time students. But during all this time they still need a place to live, food to eat, and some spending money for clothes and such. If you don't come from a rich family, which many don't, then the only way you can get this is by a Student Loan, which is not Free.  

 

Sure! What a Great Society we would live in if all Education was Free! If all Medicare was Free with no line-ups to see Doctors, or to go to a Hospital, and no waiting list for an Operation. Were People at 65 Years of age could Retire in comfort on a Governement Pension, and live the life they deserve for all the years of hard work. 

 

But we don't live in a Society like this! We live in one where nothing is Free. Whether you pay for it out of your wallet, or through your high taxes. No doubt Free Education and Medicare, and a liviable Pension would benefit any Government. The only question is, who is going to pay for that? 

 

I guess Germany, the economic powerhouse that it is, is just squandering their money allowing all university education to be offered free.  Your arguments sound reasonable but ignore reality.  You pretend that educated citizens have zero value to society, that it's all cost and freebies to the students with no value to anyone else.  Or perhaps you really believe this.  At any rate, going to school is not as easy as you think.  And people are not as lazy and worthless as you think.  It is a benefit to society to provide education at no cost to students.  That's why we already do it from kindergarten to high school.  We could force kids to work instead of bothering to fill their heads with silly "facts."  What a waste of manpower!  

[pornprong]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

If its only an intervention on the interest percentage then I see no problem. Not if they pay 7 or 8% (but other articles state 7% as the max). I am against the goverment paying their debt. Anyway seems we found common ground. I am certainly not cold or without feeling. Just hate it if governments have to pay for this.. because who is next with their loans. As for a 6% default insurance.. that is a bit much especially if its over the principle that is a lot of money each year.

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 minutes ago, robblok said:

If its only an intervention on the interest percentage then I see no problem. Not if they pay 7 or 8% (but other articles state 7% as the max). I am against the goverment paying their debt. Anyway seems we found common ground. I am certainly not cold or without feeling. Just hate it if governments have to pay for this.. because who is next with their loans. As for a 6% default insurance.. that is a bit much especially if its over the principle that is a lot of money each year.

Yes I agree! Nobody should pay there Loans for them. But it is also important that these Loans were given on a fare basis. Forcing someone deperate for money into a corner, and saying here is a loan but you have to pay 14% (8% + 6%) is not fare when the going rate might only be 5% or 6%. What is the Mortgage Rate in Thailand anyway? Anybody?

 

Another thing that nobody surprisenly brought up, is these Teachers don't have to pay off these Loans. All they have to pay is the Interest on the Principle, which they can do until death, and the Funeral Fund pays the rest for them. Pretty good deal if you want to stay in debt all your life.  

[GOLDBUGGY]

6 minutes ago, wealthychef said:

 

I guess Germany, the economic powerhouse that it is, is just squandering their money allowing all university education to be offered free.  Your arguments sound reasonable but ignore reality.  You pretend that educated citizens have zero value to society, that it's all cost and freebies to the students with no value to anyone else.  Or perhaps you really believe this.  At any rate, going to school is not as easy as you think.  And people are not as lazy and worthless as you think.  It is a benefit to society to provide education at no cost to students.  That's why we already do it from kindergarten to high school.  We could force kids to work instead of bothering to fill their heads with silly "facts."  What a waste of manpower!  

Sorry if I gave you the impression that educated citizens have zero value to society. Quite the contray! Educated Citizens offer a huge value to any society. This is why I said Student Loans should have a very Low Interest Rate and made easy to pay back. 

 

But perhaps the part where you misunderstood me was when I said that anything that has value also has cost. That there is no such thing as a Free Education Systems because somebody along the line has to pay for this. Professors and all other Staff do not work for free. Universities require regular maintenance and upkeep. Students need to eat and have a place to sleep. 

 

So that was my main point, and not if these educated citizens add value or not. Of coursse they do! It is just a simple matter as to how much this costs and who pays for it in the end.   

[watcharacters]

 

Why do I feel no matter what's done to improve the education system in Thailand and improve the lot of Thai teachers there  will  be do little done  in the way of educating Thai students?

 

 

[5633572526]

Another debt crisis in the making. Maybe we will have to cancel a couple of those submarines.

[wealthychef]

12 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Sorry if I gave you the impression that educated citizens have zero value to society. Quite the contray! Educated Citizens offer a huge value to any society. This is why I said Student Loans should have a very Low Interest Rate and made easy to pay back. 

 

But perhaps the part where you misunderstood me was when I said that anything that has value also has cost. That there is no such thing as a Free Education Systems because somebody along the line has to pay for this. Professors and all other Staff do not work for free. Universities require regular maintenance and upkeep. Students need to eat and have a place to sleep. 

 

So that was my main point, and not if these educated citizens add value or not. Of coursse they do! It is just a simple matter as to how much this costs and who pays for it in the end.   

Ah OK so what exactly were you saying?  Were you just quibbling with the word "free?"  Of course everyone knows there is a cost.  I'm always amazed when people raise this objection.  The word "free" here means the student does not immediately pay or go into debt for their education.  

Now perhaps it's in society's interest to require they work for the state for two years afterward or before or something.  But I think giving them a student loan debt is just wrong-headed.  It profits the banks maybe but nobody else.  

[mommysboy]

On 7/31/2018 at 9:45 AM, GOLDBUGGY said:

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

Except maybe the Masterly Positng?

Sorry- I meant masterful.

[robblok]

15 hours ago, pornprong said:

Im not sure why you keep doing this, next time I will report you for going totally off topic with only images. Others have gotten a suspension for it. You either reply to a topic or you dont. I guess its a bit too much for you to actually form a reply.

 

As for your pic, why do you drag the US into it all the time, I am Dutch our welfare system and health system are far superior to that in the US. I can't help it you come from a backwards country. 

 

But if you think welfare fraud does not happen often I could point you to a few documentaries, also it shows that there is a group that does everything to stay on welfare. I guess its because welfare in my country is higher as in the USA. Its been abused a lot, I don't have a problem with genuine poor people, just with those that can work but wont. Quite a few examples from my country where people who were on welfare were forced to work.. but found all kinds of excuses not to work. Now often welfare mean that you will have to help the city with things like gardening. Guess what less people applied for welfare as they knew some sort of work would be found for them. 

[robblok]

15 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Yes I agree! Nobody should pay there Loans for them. But it is also important that these Loans were given on a fare basis. Forcing someone deperate for money into a corner, and saying here is a loan but you have to pay 14% (8% + 6%) is not fare when the going rate might only be 5% or 6%. What is the Mortgage Rate in Thailand anyway? Anybody?

 

Another thing that nobody surprisenly brought up, is these Teachers don't have to pay off these Loans. All they have to pay is the Interest on the Principle, which they can do until death, and the Funeral Fund pays the rest for them. Pretty good deal if you want to stay in debt all your life.  

Yes but that is what that 6% insurance is for to make sure the debt get paid off if the person dies. Though he has to be paying in the system for around 16-17 years for it to be break even. Longer than that and he is paying over the top... shorter he has won (but lost his life early)

[mommysboy]

15 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Yes I agree! Nobody should pay there Loans for them. But it is also important that these Loans were given on a fare basis. Forcing someone deperate for money into a corner, and saying here is a loan but you have to pay 14% (8% + 6%) is not fare when the going rate might only be 5% or 6%. What is the Mortgage Rate in Thailand anyway? Anybody?

 

Another thing that nobody surprisenly brought up, is these Teachers don't have to pay off these Loans. All they have to pay is the Interest on the Principle, which they can do until death, and the Funeral Fund pays the rest for them. Pretty good deal if you want to stay in debt all your life.  

This was the point I was trying to make earlier: effectively this is debt enslavement for the term of their life, only to be released at the point of death- death tends to do that anyway!

 

Of course this is Thailand... anywhere else then this scheme would be deemed unconscionable.