I just finished a 48 hour intermittent fast (IF)

[WaveHunter]

35 minutes ago, robblok said:

I almost 100% agree.

 

But about the carbs and CICO. One has to eat loads of carbs to keep producing insulin. If you eat just a normal portion of carbs you don't have that much insulin. So by eating less (means less carbs too) means less insulin.

 

I think its hard to be producing too much insulin from carbs if your at a caloric deficit. So you will lose fat the CICO way. I still believe CICO is true.. just not as mathematically as people think. The body can slow down.

 

I think best way is to eat healthy non processed foods and on a caloric deficit. The rest is up to personal preference.

 

I understand what your saying about the body setpoint and always struggling. Though as i said this time its not a struggle not even when losing weight. I think this is a good basis for when i am done losing weight. Ill eat the same way as now.. just a bit more. 

Well yeah, CICO and low carb can coincide, but I think it’s better to focus on carbs.  The reason is that if you select carbs with a really low glycemic load (I.e.: veggies for instance) you minimize insulin response and especially spikes without sacrificing too many calories.

 

The trouble with diets based primarily on CICO is that it’s pretty easy to over-do it and have an overall slowdown of the metabolism as the result.  

 

This of course becomes self defeating since a slowed metabolism will result in lower basal metabolic rate, so even though you’re consuming less calories, you’ll be burning less calories as well.  Zero sum gain, and in some instances, people actually GAIN weight even though they consuming less calories....Yikes LOL!!

 

On the other hand if you focus on low carbs and consume only those carbs with a low glycemic load, you’ll avoid insulin spikes, minimize insulin release (which allows stored fat to be accessed), feel more satiated from higher bulk, and the calories will maintain your BMR while allowing your body to burn fat as well.

 

just seems like a better way to me ????

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

On 3/19/2019 at 11:30 AM, jvs said:

I have sold many supplements,many people are looking for a shortcut,guess what,its not there.

Supplements do help certain people(athletes)not to be confused by people who work out a few times per week and go party in the weekend.

Who is the person benifitting the most?The guy who sells it!

The supplement industry has got to be one of the all time most profitable industries ever, and one for the few outright scams (for the most part) that's actually perfectly legal.  What a racket!  Aside from a multi-vitamin you take once a day, I really think all the other stuff that's sold is quite unnecessary for the average person. As you said, the supplement industry meets the demand created by lazy people looking for shortcuts to a healthy lifestyle instead of sucking it up and doing things the right way.

 

And even a multi-vitamin is only necessary because of how nutritionally bankrupt foods have become that are produced by the food industry these days!  The diet of the average person these days is just atrocious! It used to be primarily an American problem (SAD: Standard American Diet) but I see it spreading to societies world-wide.  Remember those Thai kids who were trapped in the cave up north last year?  I remember one of them being interviewed after the rescue after not eating for over a week; his greatest desire was a trip his favorite eatery; KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) LOL!  

 

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by WaveHunter

[thedemon]

On 3/19/2019 at 5:18 PM, robblok said:

I am not sure i deplete all of my glycogen stores, currently i sip some lemonade during my training (heavily diluted) To keep my energy up a bit. I also started doing (heavy / medium / light) days. 

 

I was going heavy all the time (think close to failure on my exercises). It took me a minimum of 30 minutes or more of lying down after a training session to have any power back and function normally. I think it was over training or under eating. 

 

So I just added a bit of lemonade during the training and made sure I had days I did not go that close to failure.  I was one of those people who thought that anything below 100% was slacking. 

 

Now i see myself progressing again (adding weight to the bar) and feeling normal after a workout. I still need a bit of time to recover if I have a heavy workout (close to failure) but less before.

 

I am not sure if it means i burned through all my glycogen or not.

 

I am just happy that i am still losing fat and much easier than before (other times that i needed to lose weight). Almost no hunger pangs and a far more constant shrinking of the belly. Though at times it look like it was stuck and then came down all of a sudden. (read about that too its normal).

 

I am curious if i might be finally be able to get where i want to go. I do know that the way i do it now is easier as before. 

 

Might be the berberine or the inulin / physilium husk. I am not really sure what is giving me the improved weight loss. 

 

 

I recently decided to start taking berberine ( for the insulin resistance/hypertension benefits + weight loss) at least partly influenced by some of your previous posts where you have mentioned it. I ordered capsules online.

 

Do you mind telling how you are taking inulin and psyllium husk? I presume both of them are in powder form?

 

Cheers

[VincentRJ]

4 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

And even a multi-vitamin is only necessary because of how nutritionally bankrupt foods have become that are produced by the food industry these days!  The diet of the average person these days is just atrocious!

At least I agree with this. ????

 

The reason why vitamin supplements are beneficial is because modern agricultural techniques mine the soil of a lot of minerals and micro-nutrients essential to human health. Farmers tend to fertilize the soil with just a few growth-enhancing chemicals such as phosphorus and Nitrogen, apply pesticides and weed killers which also kill micro-organisms in the soil, which would otherwise help the plants' roots take up micro-nutrients, and remove, or burn, the biomass waste after harvesting the crop so the soil gradually becomes depleted of carbon and micro-nutrients.

 

There's quite a bit of scientific research which shows that the food grown during the times of our grandfathers contained significantly higher quantities of vitamins and nutrients than modern food products. An orange grown a hundred years ago would probably have contained several times the quantity of Vitamin C as an orange harvested in modern times.

 

The problem is, most of us don't know specifically what nutrients our bodies are deficient in, and the general dietary recommendations of a serving or two of this food or that, every day, will supply a sufficient quantity of a specific vitamin or mineral, is very broad and imprecise.

 

For example, Brazil nuts are claimed to be good sources of Selenium. Some authorities claim that one Brazil nut per day is sufficient to meet the body's requirement for Selenium. Other authorities claim maybe 2 or 3 nuts. I did an internet search on the subject, and came across a serious scientific study which had tested in the laboratory the Selenium content of Brazil nuts grown in many different locations on the planet.
What they found was very revealing, but quite understandable. The Selenium content, per mass of Brazil nut, varied by a factor of 10. In other words, a deficiency of Selenium in the soil does not prevent the Brazil nut tree from growing, but it does result in the seed containing much less Selenium than other trees grown in a soil which is rich in Selenium.

 

This problem applies to all food crops to some degree, with regard to all vitamins and micro-nutrients. I take vitamin supplements on the basis that an excess in one particular vitamin is not nearly as bad as a deficiency in another particular vitamin or nutrient which is vital for good health.
 

[robblok]

16 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

The supplement industry has got to be one of the all time most profitable industries ever, and one for the few outright scams (for the most part) that's actually perfectly legal.  What a racket!  Aside from a multi-vitamin you take once a day, I really think all the other stuff that's sold is quite unnecessary for the average person. As you said, the supplement industry meets the demand created by lazy people looking for shortcuts to a healthy lifestyle instead of sucking it up and doing things the right way.

  

And even a multi-vitamin is only necessary because of how nutritionally bankrupt foods have become that are produced by the food industry these days!  The diet of the average person these days is just atrocious! It used to be primarily an American problem (SAD: Standard American Diet) but I see it spreading to societies world-wide.  Remember those Thai kids who were trapped in the cave up north last year?  I remember one of them being interviewed after the rescue after not eating for over a week; his greatest desire was a trip his favorite eatery; KFC (Kentucky Fried Chicken) LOL!  

  

 

I am caught here between agreeing and not agreeing. It clear that there are countless supplements that are totally worthless however there are quite a few that work well.

 

Nothing has ever discredited creatine, i understand you as a rider don't know the stuff but it works. It makes sure you can hold more energy in the muscles and crank out a few extra reps. The only people who don't respond to this stuff are those who eat huge amounts of red meat and fish.

 

Protein powders work, (not better then normal proteins) and are easy to take for those of us who are on a diet or want an easy way to get extra protein.

 

Fish oil, berberine, calcium / magnesium / pottasium all supplements that work. I could not work out as hard without cramps if i did not take that stuff.

 

There are other examples of stuff that work im sure I missed a few things. Then there is that large group of stuff that does not work or is under dosed ect. Think BCCAA, and others. 

 

 

[robblok]

14 hours ago, thedemon said:

 

I recently decided to start taking berberine ( for the insulin resistance/hypertension benefits + weight loss) at least partly influenced by some of your previous posts where you have mentioned it. I ordered capsules online.

 

Do you mind telling how you are taking inulin and psyllium husk? I presume both of them are in powder form?

 

Cheers

I take the inulin and psyllium husk in a protein shake. Not that its better to take it that way but its just that i need a protein shake and found it easy to combine. You can also just take a cup of water and add it.

 

It really helps me but, all these things only help and add extra benefits after your diet is cleaned up.

[thedemon]

34 minutes ago, robblok said:

I take the inulin and psyllium husk in a protein shake. Not that its better to take it that way but its just that i need a protein shake and found it easy to combine. You can also just take a cup of water and add it.

 

It really helps me but, all these things only help and add extra benefits after your diet is cleaned up.

 

Thanks for that. I'll try them both just mixed with water and see if that is tolerable.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, thedemon said:

 

Thanks for that. I'll try them both just mixed with water and see if that is tolerable.

Just be sure not to let it rest after you mixed it or it will become a solid. 

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I am caught here between agreeing and not agreeing. It clear that there are countless supplements that are totally worthless however there are quite a few that work well.

 

Nothing has ever discredited creatine, i understand you as a rider don't know the stuff but it works. It makes sure you can hold more energy in the muscles and crank out a few extra reps. The only people who don't respond to this stuff are those who eat huge amounts of red meat and fish.

 

Protein powders work, (not better then normal proteins) and are easy to take for those of us who are on a diet or want an easy way to get extra protein.

 

Fish oil, berberine, calcium / magnesium / pottasium all supplements that work. I could not work out as hard without cramps if i did not take that stuff.

 

There are other examples of stuff that work im sure I missed a few things. Then there is that large group of stuff that does not work or is under dosed ect. Think BCCAA, and others. 

 

 

As usual I kind of put my foot in my mouth LOL.  Of course, there are many supplements that are valid and beneficial; fish oil for certain (even though I hate the burps it causes LOL *), and many vitamin and mineral supplements that might be lacking in a poor diet or under-dosed in a multi-vitamin, certain anti-oxidants, and of course specialty supplements like creatine or electrolyte drinks for athletes. 

 

What I was really referring to are the bogus claims that are made for many supplements like the anti-aging or anti-cancer properties of supplements like CoQ10 for instance, or the cosmetic skin smoothing properties of topical vitamin C and certain peptides.  CoQ10, for instance, is indeed an effective anti-oxidant but the claims made by some marketers are absolutely ridiculous.

 

Every day there is some Internet guru making claims like this.  Their claims are thinly veiled in persuasive sounding, but absolutely unfounded pseudo science, and almost every time their claims are self-serving; either they are selling the product or have been paid to promote the product.  It's just deplorable!

 

These bogus claims usually go along with exorbitant and incredibly outrageous prices when marketed in a way that touts these claims, compared to the exact same supplement that is marketed as a generic product without those claims.

 

*NOTE:   Regarding burping from fish oil; I found out that if you put the capsules in the freezer, and take them frozen, that unpleasant burping after taste doesn't happen...just thought I'd throw that out there for what its' worth ????

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

Just be sure not to let it rest after you mixed it or it will become a solid. 

LOL...Gotta be careful with that stuff when disposing it down the kitchen sink!  I mixed some psyllium but didn't drink all of it and poured the remainder down the kitchen drain.  A half hour later, as I was washing dishes in the sink, I found out that the psyllium in the drain had solidified.  When I say that it solidified I MEAN IT!  I ended up having to take the drain pipe apart to get it out; it had the consistency of rubber cement!!!  I learned my lesson; ALWAYS make sure you run the water a lot after dumping it down the sink.

Edited March 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

1 hour ago, thedemon said:

 

Thanks for that. I'll try them both just mixed with water and see if that is tolerable.

Psyllium is an excellent and all-natural source of dietary fiber.  Much better than the more popular constipation products like Metamucil (which contains sugar).

 

IMHO it is the best product to keep the digestive tract "clean", and for occasional constipation.  Personally I use it on a pretty regular basis.  It is especially effective during a water fast for obvious reasons.

 

I've tried a bunch of different brands and the two I like the best are made by YERBA PRIMA and also by NOW which is a maker of lots of low cost but effective generic supplements. 

 

I think Yerba Prima is a little bit more effective because the husks are not ground as fine but some people don't like the course texture; it makes them cough when they try to drink it.  The psyllium made by NOW is ground more finely, but I think that might make it less effective.

 

It's also sold as a bulk generic online and in most health food stores, but only buy from trusted sources if you go this route...especially if the source is from China!

 

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

7 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Psyllium is an excellent and all-natural source of dietary fiber.  Much better than the more popular constipation products like Metamucil (which contains sugar).

 

IMHO it is the best product to keep the digestive tract "clean", and for occasional constipation.  Personally I use it on a pretty regular basis.  It is especially effective during a water fast for obvious reasons.

 

I've tried a bunch of different brands and the two I like the best are made YERBA PRIMA and also by NOW which is a maker of lots of low cost but effective generic supplements.

 

I think Yerba Prima is a little bit more effective because the husks are not ground as fine but some people have don't like the course texture; it makes them cough when they try to drink it.  The psyllium made by NOW is ground more finely, but I think that might make it less effective.

I buy it from Good karma to be honest I did not check if the price was good

 

https://healthfoodthailand.com/en/home/247-psyllium-husks-organic-1-kg.html

[robblok]

37 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

As usual I kind of put my foot in my mouth LOL.  Of course, there are many supplements that are valid and beneficial; fish oil for certain (even though I hate the burps it causes LOL *), and many vitamin and mineral supplements that might be lacking in a poor diet or under-dosed in a multi-vitamin, certain anti-oxidants, and of course specialty supplements like creatine or electrolyte drinks for athletes. 

 

What I was really referring to are the bogus claims that are made for many supplements like the anti-aging or anti-cancer properties of supplements like CoQ10 for instance, or the cosmetic skin smoothing properties of topical vitamin C and certain peptides.  CoQ10, for instance, is indeed an effective anti-oxidant but the claims made by some marketers are absolutely ridiculous.

 

Every day there is some Internet guru making claims like this.  Their claims are thinly veiled in persuasive sounding, but absolutely unfounded pseudo science, and almost every time their claims are self-serving; either they are selling the product or have been paid to promote the product.  It's just deplorable!

 

These bogus claims usually go along with exorbitant and incredibly outrageous prices when marketed in a way that touts these claims, compared to the exact same supplement that is marketed as a generic product without those claims.

 

*NOTE:   Regarding burping from fish oil; I found out that if you put the capsules in the freezer, and take them frozen, that unpleasant burping after taste doesn't happen...just thought I'd throw that out there for what its' worth ????

 

 

I don't have fish oil burps thankfully. 

 

I am known to put my foot in my mouth too so don't worry.

 

I get it there are countless of supplements that promise so much that don't do a thing for you. For instance I once was persuaded to try CLA some research said it worked. I did not notice a thing so not going to use it again. 

 

But I certainly will keep using inulin and psyllium husk and berberine, probably the Ashwagandha and turmeric with black pepper too. The Ashwagandha is more for keeping cortisol down after hard workouts as its catabolic. 

[WaveHunter]

15 minutes ago, robblok said:

I buy it from Good karma to be honest I did not check if the price was good

 

https://healthfoodthailand.com/en/home/247-psyllium-husks-organic-1-kg.html

You might want to try iHerb.  Prices are a little better and they sell Yerba Prima.  They also seem to sell every "western" health-related product you can imagine.

 

https://www.iherb.com/c/Psyllium-Husk

 

The only drawback with them though is they take a LONG TIME to ship items...and since they are not located in Thailand, customs will nick you on orders totaling more that 1500 baht. ????

 

Personally, I bite the bullet and order from Amazon.  God how I wish Amazon would establish a hub in Thailand LOL!

 

Edited March 21, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

6 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

You might want to try iHerb.  Prices are a little better and they sell Yerba Prima.

 

https://www.iherb.com/c/Psyllium-Husk

 

The only drawback with them though is they take a LONG TIME to ship items...and since they are not located in Thailand, customs will nick you on orders totaling more that 1500 baht ????

 

Personally, I bite the bullet and order from Amazon.  God how I wish Amazon would establish a hub in Thailand LOL!

 

The Yerba Prima is not that much cheaper compared to this one. I do use I herb for my inulin as I can't find it as cheap anywhere but there. I don't mind waiting as I always order before my last batch is done. I am quite organised.

[WaveHunter]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

The Yerba Prima is not that much cheaper compared to this one. I do use I herb for my inulin as I can't find it as cheap anywhere but there. I don't mind waiting as I always order before my last batch is done. I am quite organised.

Yerba Prima is pricey for sure but the noticeably higher quality is worth the price IMHO.

[WaveHunter]

Poor simon43...we have totally hijacked his thread "I just finished a 48 hour intermittent fast (IF)"

LOL!!!

[robblok]

1 minute ago, WaveHunter said:

Poor simon43...we have totally hijacked his thread "I just finished a 48 hour intermittent fast (IF)"

LOL!!!

I think @simon43 would be pleased we keep the tread going along. Its not about fasting only anymore. Still i think its informative for everyone who wants to learn something. 

[WaveHunter]

Just now, robblok said:

I think @simon43 would be pleased we keep the tread going along. Its not about fasting only anymore. Still i think its informative for everyone who wants to learn something. 

Agree; this is the most productive thread I've participated in here on ThaiVisa...and it seems the usual TV trolls are leaving us alone...AMAZING!

[Rinrada]

I am exhausted just reading about all this "fasting"....maybe time for a sandwich...ham,emmental and some sliced tomatos...home grown...so healthy...eh...

[simon43]

As robblok says, I'm pleased that this thread is still going and providing useful comment and information.

 

As for me, I returned to Thailand from Burma a few months ago. The exercise options in this town (Ranong) seem few (too many cars, truck pollution etc).  In 2 weeks from now I relocate to live in Bueng Kan on the Mekong River, where there is a nice riverside promenade suitable for jogging and aerobics etc.

 

I've put on a little fat since I started this thread!  But that has been intentional because my dieting really made me too thin, with gaunt and sunken cheeks. But I'm still 'looking good' as I hit 60 years old, still jogging 5 Km every morning, now eating more fruit and veg every day than before.  My resting heart rate is down around 42 now, blood pressure same as a 20 year old, chloresterol levels and other blood works great.  My stress level is non-existent....

 

Once I'm in Bueng Kan, I'm going to plan out a more long-term exercise and fitness strategy.

[WaveHunter]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

As robblok says, I'm pleased that this thread is still going and providing useful comment and information.

 

As for me, I returned to Thailand from Burma a few months ago. The exercise options in this town (Ranong) seem few (too many cars, truck pollution etc).  In 2 weeks from now I relocate to live in Bueng Kan on the Mekong River, where there is a nice riverside promenade suitable for jogging and aerobics etc.

 

I've put on a little fat since I started this thread!  But that has been intentional because my dieting really made me too thin, with gaunt and sunken cheeks. But I'm still 'looking good' as I hit 60 years old, still jogging 5 Km every morning, now eating more fruit and veg every day than before.  My resting heart rate is down around 42 now, blood pressure same as a 20 year old, chloresterol levels and other blood works great.  My stress level is non-existent....

 

Once I'm in Bueng Kan, I'm going to plan out a more long-term exercise and fitness strategy.

Resting heart rate of 42?  Wow, that's comparable to a world-class triathlete!  I guess those 5 km every morning is paying off..congrats on that for sure!  Hope you start participating on your thread again; it's been a fun thread to follow. ????

 

[simon43]

Quote

 

Resting heart rate of 42?  Wow, that's comparable to a world-class triathlete! 
 

 

 

3 years ago before I started regular exercise, my resting heart rate was about 70.  As my fitness has improved, I've watched that rate slowly reduce and reduce as my heart physically enlarged and grew stronger to pump blood around my puny body ????

 

At night, my HR drops to 35! (I monitor HR and BP every day.).  BP at rest is typically 110/65 (and I never feel faint from low BP).

 

At my age, I'm very happy with my health and fitness level. But not to assume that things won't change in the future - I have '5-star' medical insurance, just in case!.

Edited March 22, 2019 by simon43

[WaveHunter]

OK, for all of you who like a good debate...here's one!  How many pounds do you have to loose in order to loose one inch in waist circumference? 

 

I've always subscribed to the rule of thumb that it is 5 pounds for every inch (from my personal experience).  Most google searches reference 4 pounds per inch, but I just read an anecdotal study that came up with 6.1 pounds per inch!

http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2014/11/14/size-will-lose-weight/

 

And this anecdotal study is backed up by a scientific study that examined waist circumference as a function of BMI

https://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2288-12-115

 

So, I think the usual google results of 4 pounds is too low.  5-6 pounds per inch sounds right, assuming the weight loss is under 55 pounds.  If over, it seems that the number can rise up to 10 pounds per inch lost.

 

So, what do you all think?  Just think it's kind of interesting to see this documented in these studies and thought you guys might too ????

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by WaveHunter

[simon43]

I lost 9 Kg in weight (from 73 to 64 Kg = about 20 pounds).  My waist size reduced from 34 to 29 inches.  That makes 4 pounds per inch loss.

[brokenbone]

i just started another weight drop season,

strange i dont suffer hunger any longer,

my aim this time is 10-15 kg

[WaveHunter]

19 minutes ago, simon43 said:

I lost 9 Kg in weight (from 73 to 64 Kg = about 20 pounds).  My waist size reduced from 34 to 29 inches.  That makes 4 pounds per inch loss.

That's what most of the google searches indicate. I have no idea why my experience was 5 pounds (2.27 kg)/inch. 

 

But I just can't imagine how it could be over 6 pounds as referenced in those studies now that I'm really thinking about it.  I mean that's a pretty big difference when you think about it.  

 

Edited March 27, 2019 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

3 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

i just started another weight drop season,

strange i dont suffer hunger any longer,

my aim this time is 10-15 kg

That's a lot of weight.  What percent body fat are you shooting for and what's you timeframe, just out of curiosity?

Edited March 27, 2019 by WaveHunter

[robblok]

3 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

OK, for all of you who like a good debate...here's one!  How many pounds do you have to loose in order to loose one inch in waist circumference? 

 

I've always subscribed to the rule of thumb that it is 5 pounds for every inch (from my personal experience).  Most google searches reference 4 pounds per inch, but I just read an anecdotal study that came up with 6.1 pounds per inch!

http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2014/11/14/size-will-lose-weight/

 

And this anecdotal study is backed up by a scientific study that examined waist circumference as a function of BMI

https://bmcmedresmethodol.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2288-12-115

 

So, I think the usual google results of 4 pounds is too low.  5-6 pounds per inch sounds right, assuming the weight loss is under 55 pounds.  If over, it seems that the number can rise up to 10 pounds per inch lost.

 

So, what do you all think?  Just think it's kind of interesting to see this documented in these studies and thought you guys might too ????

 

Recently stepped on the scales... oooopss.. not that it means much to me. But it looks as if I still got some pounds to lose. Basically reasonably lean but the belly and sides are still not good. 

 

So I will lose a bit more around there, given myself 7 weeks for the last fat loss. Pulling out all stops. I was not feeling good today, but decided to train anyway (trying to psyc myself up now).

 

Yesterday i did some loaded carries still feel them on the side of my shoulders. 

 

I have no idea how much weight I lose per inch, this time I did not step on the scales for 3 months while my body changed. I just stepped on to see how much I was compared to last year. Problem is I still seem to gain muscle so its never sure for me to what weight I have to go to be super lean. 

 

Its usually more then i think.

[brokenbone]

On 3/27/2019 at 4:47 PM, WaveHunter said:

That's a lot of weight.  What percent body fat are you shooting for and what's you timeframe, just out of curiosity?

a month, i accept muscle drop as it becomes

easier for massage girls, chiropractors etc to fix my body when i'm skinny