UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[nontabury]

10 minutes ago, tebee said:

Brexit Status Update:-

 

 

Remainers: We’re doomed
Leavers: We’re doomed

Did you think of that yourself,or did you copy????

[melvinmelvin]

38 minutes ago, tebee said:

Brexit Status Update:-

 

 

Remainers: We’re doomed
Leavers: We’re doomed

 

In the Swedish msm, dn.se, it is said that the handling of the deal in Brussels does not go as smooth

as expected,

one thing is Spain making noise re Gibraltar, probably expected

but there are differences between member states re some aspects of the deal

 

 

[Basil B]

9 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

In the Swedish msm, dn.se, it is said that the handling of the deal in Brussels does not go as smooth

as expected,

one thing is Spain making noise re Gibraltar, probably expected

but there are differences between member states re some aspects of the deal

 

 

If you think it hard for May to get the deal approved by Parliament with different factions refusing to accept various parts of the agreement it is likely to be even harder for Barmier and Tusk to get agreement from 27 different member coteries wanting their own changes to the deal.

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, Basil B said:

If you think it hard for May to get the deal approved by Parliament with different factions refusing to accept various parts of the agreement it is likely to be even harder for Barmier and Tusk to get agreement from 27 different member coteries wanting their own changes to the deal.

consensus is a tricky objective to reach

but they have a few days for play

[kwilco]

Lest we forget....

 

[JAG]

10 hours ago, damascase said:

Can you name a country that at present you cannot trade with, but after Brexit you will/can?

It is not so much about which country we can or cannot trade with, rather than the terms under which we can trade with them. At present we are bound by terms decided by and imposed by a beaurocracy over which we have little control, and which is effectively unaccountable to any electorate. Those terms are very often designed to protect specific interest groups to which the UK does not belong, and as a result will impose additional costs upon consumers. 

 

CAP anyone?

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by JAG

[Grouse]

I understand that the electric Mini and the electric Land Rovers will not be assembled in the U.K. Sorry if that is common knowledge but the issue came up on #3 blokes in a pub ep19.

 

Also, the idea that not many SMEs do not trade with the EU misses the point. It maybe a small percentage but about 350,000 businesses will be harmed.

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, JAG said:

It is not so much about which country we can or cannot trade with, rather than the terms under which we can trade with them. At present we are bound by terms decided by and imposed by a beaurocracy over which we have little control, and which is effectively unaccountable to any electorate. Those terms are very often designed to protect specific interest groups to which the UK does not belong, and impose additional costs upon consumers. 

 

CAP anyone?

 

I understand that the EU already has a trade agreement in place with New Zealand. I will investigate.

 

Slightly premature....

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/may/22/eu-trade-talks-australia-new-zealand-brexit-commonwealth

 

and

 

https://www.mfat.govt.nz/en/trade/free-trade-agreements/agreements-under-negotiation/eu-fta/nz-eu-negotiating-rounds/

Edited November 20, 2018 by Grouse
Update

[Grouse]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46269755

 

DUP abstains in budget vote

 

The end is nigh

[tebee]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/we-ll-all-pay-for-the-eu-obsession-of-the-right-v3b3ttqtl?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1542646788

 

This country cannot again have an effective and creative government until we restore a consensus that politics is rightfully about many things, on most of which compromise is indispensable, rather than about one thing, deemed by true believers to be an absolute.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by tebee

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-46269755

 

DUP abstains in budget vote

 

The end is nigh

 

has LibDem expressed any views re the deal?

 

[talahtnut]

5 hours ago, tebee said:

Brexit Status Update:-

 

 

Remainers: We’re doomed
Leavers: We’re doomed

Thats the truth mate. The working class is always doomed.

In or out, only the rich will benefit.  Pax tebee.

Edited November 20, 2018 by talahtnut

[tebee]

5 hours ago, nontabury said:

Did you think of that yourself,or did you copy????

 Na - stole it 

 

Good artists copy; great artists steal

 

https://quoteinvestigator.com/2013/03/06/artists-steal/

[Grouse]

37 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

has LibDem expressed any views re the deal?

 

They have said they will vote against the deal with a view to forcing a people's vote. I will find a reference

 

mentioned here

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/15/how-will-parliaments-many-tribes-vote-on-the-brexit-deal

 

a formal decision will be made today

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/news/99964/excl-calls-lib-dem-mp-stephen-lloyd-lose

Edited November 20, 2018 by Grouse

[StreetCowboy]

4 hours ago, kwilco said:

Lest we forget....

 

As if anyone would want to go to any of those countries anyway, when you have all of Britain as your playground.

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, billd766 said:

Most probably the lack of man and women power plus a doubling up on material resources and the cost of starting and Army of xxx,xxx people and all the infrastructure that goes with it.

 

NATO HQ is in Brussels and to run 2 organisations with much the same targets and ideas will be expensive, There are only 5 countries contributing 2% of GDP into NATO now and to start a new EU military from scratch means that the 27 EU countries will have to stump up even more of their GDP.

 

Just assuming the plan gets off the ground, what will the new Army do all day that isn't already being done by NATO.

 

Putin must be laughing his socks off.

I don't know where you get your 2 organisations from, certainly not from my comments. As far as I am aware the only proposal on the table is closer co-operation between existing entities so nothing new. The UK are not included as far as the EU are concerned they are out already.

The reality is that there is very little chance of the EU ever becoming a NATO member, as it is in the WTO, the US would never allow it, as far as they are concerned division is the name of the game.

[sandyf]

Another attempt to manipulate parliament avoided.

 

Theresa May has been dealt a fresh blow after MPs forced the government to agree to publish analysis comparing the economic impact of her Brexit deal with staying in the EU.

A cross-party amendment outlining the demand was backed by more than 70 MPs from six political parties, including enough Conservative rebels to deprive the government of its majority.

Facing the prospect of a humiliating Commons defeat, ministers bowed to pressure and agreed to accept the motion.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-leave-remain-analysis-eu-theresa-may-plan-draft-latest-ministers-a8642161.html

[melvinmelvin]

14 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I don't know where you get your 2 organisations from, certainly not from my comments. As far as I am aware the only proposal on the table is closer co-operation between existing entities so nothing new. The UK are not included as far as the EU are concerned they are out already.

The reality is that there is very little chance of the EU ever becoming a NATO member, as it is in the WTO, the US would never allow it, as far as they are concerned division is the name of the game.

 

the deal contains some aspects of defence coop

 

[sandyf]

3 hours ago, JAG said:

It is not so much about which country we can or cannot trade with, rather than the terms under which we can trade with them. At present we are bound by terms decided by and imposed by a beaurocracy over which we have little control, and which is effectively unaccountable to any electorate. Those terms are very often designed to protect specific interest groups to which the UK does not belong, and as a result will impose additional costs upon consumers. 

 

CAP anyone?

 

Overall,the EU arrangements have been of significant benefit to UK consumers both in price and quality. You may believe that the UK is stronger with 60 million rather than 700 million but that is up to you.

The EU does not negotiate with certain types of government, obviously you would be happy for the UK to deal with any type of government.

The EU does not make deals with countries that do not respect its rules and regulations, obviously you would be happy for the UK to make any deal irrespective of rules and regulations.

 

The EU regulations and standards are their for a reason but to those with EU paranoia it is nothing more than unnecessary bureaucracy.

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

They have said they will vote against the deal with a view to forcing a people's vote. I will find a reference

 

mentioned here

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/nov/15/how-will-parliaments-many-tribes-vote-on-the-brexit-deal

 

a formal decision will be made today

 

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/news/99964/excl-calls-lib-dem-mp-stephen-lloyd-lose

right have heard (or seen) similar coughs from Corbyn Inc Co

 

but,

where is the formal link between voting down the deal in parliament and organizing a people's vote?

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 hour ago, StreetCowboy said:

As if anyone would want to go to any of those countries anyway, when you have all of Britain as your playground.

 

What does NF's kids dual nationality have anything to do with anything. Pathetic. Graham Hughes needs a good reality check, and to grow up, like most of his counterparts.

 

Why anyone of these whingers believe that they or anyone else can't apply for a work, tourist or retirement visa in EU nations and receive it without issue is beyond me. Operating from a point of such crazy entitlement too. It's indicative of the attitude of so many people today.

 

So, because someone is dual national and their advantages are coveted by others, does this mean that all people who are not dual national should be entitled to the same benefits? Marry and have kids with a foreign national if you want your kids to have these advantages granted to them as 'rights', OR alternatively, apply for a visa like you would anywhere else in the world. Unfuckingbelievable.

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[sandyf]

8 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

the deal contains some aspects of defence coop

 

If you are suggesting the same level of co-operation as outlined in the European military arrangement then the brexiteers must have missed that.

Military integration has been one of the most vocal aspects of the EU paranoia.

[sandyf]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

where is the formal link between voting down the deal in parliament and organizing a people's vote?

The words were  "with a view to forcing a people's vote"

There is strong speculation that if the vote on the deal fails it could lead to another referendum.

Personally I think that very unlikely unless there is a change in leader.

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

If you are suggesting the same level of co-operation as outlined in the European military arrangement then the brexiteers must have missed that.

Military integration has been one of the most vocal aspects of the EU paranoia.

I dont know anything more,

it was listed as an item under Security cooperation,

along with spook coop, anti terror, polic coop etc

 

(from a Swedish msm, no simple rag)

 

[melvinmelvin]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The words were  "with a view to forcing a people's vote"

There is strong speculation that if the vote on the deal fails it could lead to another referendum.

Personally I think that very unlikely unless there is a change in leader.

hehe,

change in leadership doesn't seem that far away

 

[StreetCowboy]

13 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

What does NF's kids dual nationality have anything to do with anything. Pathetic. Graham Hughes needs a good reality check, and to grow up, like most of his counterparts.

 

Why anyone of these whingers believe that they or anyone else can't apply for a work, tourist or retirement visa in EU nations and receive it without issue is beyond me. Operating from a point of such crazy entitlement too. It's indicative of the attitude of so many people today.

 

So, because someone is dual national and their advantages are coveted by others, does this mean that all people who are not dual national should be entitled to the same benefits? Marry and have kids with a foreign national if you want your kids to have these advantages granted to them as 'rights', OR alternatively, apply for a visa like you would anywhere else in the world. Unfuckingbelievable.

 

At the moment, my children enjoy the same rights of travel as do Nigel Farage's European children.  He would like to deny my children those rights, while his children retain theirs.  

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

31 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

At the moment, my children enjoy the same rights of travel as do Nigel Farage's European children.  He would like to deny my children those rights, while his children retain theirs.  

 

But his children would in any case, they're half German! One parent is a German national.

There are simply more pressing issues and reasons for leaving (I'm sure you'll disagree, bu there you go) that take precedence over and above your kids, my kids or anyone else's, having the automatic 'right' to live/work in an EU nation. If that is something you or they or anyone else would like to do, they can follow the procedures and apply for a relevant visa and if in the country long enough can apply for citizenship as used to happen often and still does with anyone outside of the EU coming to the UK or vise versa, Thailand included. If you want to guarantee these dual national rights for your progeny forever more, then marry / impregnate a foreign lady. ????

 

Edited November 20, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

What does NF's kids dual nationality have anything to do with anything. Pathetic. Graham Hughes needs a good reality check, and to grow up, like most of his counterparts.

 

Why anyone of these whingers believe that they or anyone else can't apply for a work, tourist or retirement visa in EU nations and receive it without issue is beyond me. Operating from a point of such crazy entitlement too. It's indicative of the attitude of so many people today.

 

So, because someone is dual national and their advantages are coveted by others, does this mean that all people who are not dual national should be entitled to the same benefits? Marry and have kids with a foreign national if you want your kids to have these advantages granted to them as 'rights', OR alternatively, apply for a visa like you would anywhere else in the world. Unfuckingbelievable.

 

To be fair, Farage arranging dual nationality for his family is of interest.

[StreetCowboy]

Just now, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

 

But his children would in any case, they're half German! One parent is a German national.

There are simply more pressing issues and reasons for leaving (I'm sure you'll disagree, bu there you go) that take precedence over and above your kids, my kids or anyone else's, having the automatic 'right' to live/work in an EU nation. If that is something you or they or anyone else would like to do, they can follow the procedures and apply for a relevant visa and if in the country long enough can apply for citizenship as used to happen often and still does with anyone outside of the EU coming to the UK or vise versa, Thailand included. If you want to guarantee these dual national rights forever more then marry / impregnate a foreign lady. ????

 

As I understand, freedom of movement is one of the key issues, one of the first freedoms that Farage would like to take away.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

26 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

To be fair, Farage arranging dual nationality for his family is of interest.

I don't really see why. So because he wants the UK to leave the EU his offspring cannot or should not take advantage of their mother's heritage? 

 

It has nothing to do with the reasons for leaving the EU. His kids are simply lucky that they are dual national - like mine is, as are my cousins. I envy their dual nationality, but again is it reason enough to stay in the EU ?  It is undoubtedly the biggest (for me the only tangible) pro of remaining in the EU - the ability to travel and work visa-free, but is it worth the multitude of cons that go along with it? Not a chance, especially when you can apply for a visa and (depending on certain criteria being fulfilled) can experience the same benefits in most regards. I imagined you'd agree with this Dick, judging by your record on here? 

Edited November 20, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker