UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[tebee]

5 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

jeeez,

tebee, too many neg vibes at the start of a pleasant weekend

Sorry man!

[mommysboy]

4 hours ago, Stupooey said:

I fail to understand how your response relates to my post - perhaps you didn't read it. To reiterate, many posters have expressed an opinion that a Corbyn government would be a disaster. I profoundly disagree with that view, but I was merely pointing out that the potential for 'disaster' would only exist if such a government had absolute sovereignty, i.e. outside the EU.

Ok. I apologise.

[kwilco]

More blinkered Brexitism....

 

https://www.joe.ie/amp/movies-tv/graham-norton-perfectly-describes-british-attitude-towards-brexit-644148

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

 

yesterday and today I have read some news snippets here and there saying that the guys in Brussels (negotiators) are

close to landing a conclusion on the NI border

 

I was wondering, are there any NI people on the UK team?

or will this possible conclusion come as news to the DUPs?

 

 

[billd766]

13 hours ago, oilinki said:

Now listen very carefully as I will say this only once.

 

The whole point of co-operation and union is that it's not a zero sum game. When we work collectively, we gain more than we put in. The sum of co-operation effort is more than the sum of individuals. 

 

That is the reason why we don't have personal security guards, but we rely on city / country police to deal with the gangsters. That's the reason why we don't each own our own personal fire departments, or militaries. 

 

We form communities, let it be families, cities, countries or group of countries to push some of the common tasks to be shared by others, instead of us having to do those tasks by our selves. That's optimisation in life. 

 

On EU level this means that EU is able to do far better trade deals with other countries, than any of us could do individually. EU can do standards (which annoy some), which are approved by all of our countries. Pharmacy standards is a good example of this. Accepted once, allowed to sell in all countries.

 

Science co-operation is one example. It's worth to do the expensive research together, than have 28 smaller budget scientific groups trying to research the same subject at the same time, individually. 

 

EU protects us, individuals quite a lot. This means that the food what is sold in EU is good quality. The workers rights are not been abused. etc. etc.

 

Now that UK is leaving EU, there is a fear that for example those workers rights will be slashed in UK to make UK products cheaper compared to EU products. EU will, rightfully, not allow these products to enter our markets because to compete with the prices, we would have to reduce the workers rights the same way as UK does. 

 

EU is far more than just money for us. 

 

Then please keep your version of the EU.

 

However please try to explain to me where all the money to pay for this is coming from, how much it will cost and who will bear that cost. 

 

Yes the EU IS all about money, and control too.

 

You personally have no say in what does or does not come into the EU markets and I doubt if Finland has any control either.

 

To quote you  

 

Now that UK is leaving EU, there is a fear that for example those workers rights will be slashed in UK to make UK products cheaper compared to EU products.

 

Do you have any proof of what you have said and if the UK can make or sell goods cheaper than before, why should the EU object to that? After all cheaper goods are what most people want, but you want to keep prices high at the cost of the people living in the EU, by forcing artificially high prices when goods can be bought cheaper elsewhere.

 

BTW thank you for the snippet from Allo Allo. I enjoyed it.

[mommysboy]

Looking for silver linings from Brexit:

 

I see it as a true awakening of political awareness throughout the UK, and principally in England where it is most needed and quite possibly:

 

1. The establishment of a more mature and socially acceptable English Nationalism party in much the same vein as the SNP.

 

2. The reestablishment of a moderate Tory Party representing the broad interests of its true members (essentially centre right to mid ground), and the current majority of English people.

 

3. The consolidation of the Labour party as true Socialist Democrats also freed from some of its more radical elements.

 

 

English nationalism in my view stands for an independent England, an English only Parliament, Eurosceptism, strictly controlled immigration, modern capitalism, low tax, and less of a welfare state.  Is this a fair statement?  There is no reason why any of these views should be taboo.

 

I don't agree with it but clearly a substantial minority do, and not just masquerading in the Tory party. These people really need a platform of their own, since they are clearly usurping both the Tory Party and democracy itself in my view, eg, it has led to a situation where Brexit is being heavily determined by a small minority of voters.

 

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

12 hours ago, mommysboy said:

   Trade with the EU will not be harmed. “Our trade will almost certainly continue with the EU on similar to current circumstances…The reality is that the hard-headed, pragmatic businessmen on the continent will do everything to ensure that trade with Britain continues uninterrupted.” David Davis, speech, 26 May 2016

 

“The EU’s supporters say ‘we must have access to the Single Market’. Britain will have access to the Single Market after we vote leave”. Vote Leave, What Happens When We Vote Leave?

 

“there will continue to be free trade, and access to the single market”, Boris Johnson, The Telegraph, 26 June 2016

 

"It should be win-win for us and it will be if we vote to leave and we can maintain free trade, stop sending money and also have control of our borders", Michael Gove, BBC, 8 May 2016

 

“The idea that our trade will suffer…is silly”, Vote Leave, What Happens When We Vote Leave

 

 

 

“Many of the things they [the Leave Campaign] said were absolutely pie in the sky and if you look at any possible deal we’re going to get and compare it to what people were promised, there will be a gaping gap. Now that is a reason why people might want a second referendum,” 

 

  Sir John Major.  Former Conservative PM.

 

 

 

 

As I said in another post a few pages back would you believe what most politicians say?

 

I certainly don't. I would rather look at what they have done because that is tangible whist talk is cheap.

 

John Major was a Tory PM as was Ted Heath. Which one do you believe?

 

One politician I believed and trusted was Ted Heath and Brexit is the direct result of that.

 

 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, billd766 said:

As I said in another post a few pages back would you believe what most politicians say?

 

I certainly don't. I would rather look at what they have done because that is tangible whist talk is cheap.

 

John Major was a Tory PM as was Ted Heath. Which one do you believe?

 

One politician I believed and trusted was Ted Heath and Brexit is the direct result of that.

 

 

 

That doesn't deal with the stark issue at hand.

[RuamRudy]

29 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Looking for silver linings from Brexit:

 

I see it as a true awakening of political awareness throughout the UK, and principally in England where it is most needed and quite possibly:

 

1. The establishment of a more mature and socially acceptable English Nationalism party in much the same vein as the SNP.

 

2. The reestablishment of a moderate Tory Party representing the broad interests of its true members (essentially centre right to mid ground), and the current majority of English people.

 

3. The consolidation of the Labour party as true Socialist Democrats also freed from some of its more radical elements.

 

 

English nationalism in my view stands for an independent England, an English only Parliament, Eurosceptism, strictly controlled immigration, modern capitalism, low tax, and less of a welfare state.  Is this a fair statement?  There is no reason why any of these views should be taboo.

 

I don't agree with it but clearly a substantial minority do, and not just masquerading in the Tory party. These people really need a platform of their own, since they are clearly usurping both the Tory Party and democracy itself in my view, eg, it has led to a situation where Brexit is being heavily determined by a small minority of voters.

 

I have been trying to think of a way of saying the above without sounding insincere or condescending, but you have stated my thoughts perfectly, and more coherently.

 

English pride should not be something to be repressed or ashamed of. It's unfortunate that the St George's Cross was hijacked by the far right, but those negative aspects of it are mainly in the past. I would love to see English pride demonstrated in the same way that the Scots, Irish and Welsh celebrate the unique aspects of their culture.

 

Unfortunately the UK government is trying to homogenise us all with their sticking the Union flag on everything. This cultural whitewashing doesn't just affect the other home nations; it affects England too. An English equivalent of the SNP or PC is long overdue, I think.

[Guest]

30 minutes ago, billd766 said:

However please try to explain to me where all the money to pay for this is coming from, how much it will cost and who will bear that cost. 

 

Yes the EU IS all about money, and control too.

 

You personally have no say in what does or does not come into the EU markets and I doubt if Finland has any control either.

For me EU is more of liberties and standards of living spread through the member states. 

 

This means that the quality of products, therefore life, is equal throughout the member state. Our food products are better than for example in Asia or USA. Our livestock enjoys less stress during their lives, which naturally costs more money than treating the animals badly and filling them with antibiotics. 

 

We have also other standards, which ease up our live. Mobile roaming charges is one example of this. EU fighting against Google and other major companies to keep our citizens data safe is another. etc. etc.

 

The money to all this regulatory work comes naturally from us. To make a standard costs X amount of money. To make a standard by one country costs X, to make a standard by EU costs X/28 for our countries. That's where we save the money, when we anyway need to spend it. Individually we pay less for the same service. 

 

Individually I have very little power over EU rules. I'm one of the 500 million people in EU. I don't mind as long as EU keeps on working for my benefit. Power comes with responsibilities and I wouldn't like to take those responsibilities, unless I'm paid really really well. 

 

If I had good enough idea how some part of EU co-operation should be done, I could reach out some of my old friends who are now in position of power back in my home country. Then they could push the idea forward. I'm still waiting for my moment of epiphany ????

 

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Do you have any proof of what you have said and if the UK can make or sell goods cheaper than before, why should the EU object to that? After all cheaper goods are what most people want, but you want to keep prices high at the cost of the people living in the EU, by forcing artificially high prices when goods can be bought cheaper elsewhere.

 

BTW thank you for the snippet from Allo Allo. I enjoyed it.

One of the EU's principles is to give all it's member states and the people who live in EU countries, similar possibilities to produce products to the EU markets. 

 

This means that EU can't allow products made by 'slave labour' to enter our markets. That's why some of the tarifs (which are taxes) so high for some products. This way EU can make sure that the same standards for workers and for example animal care are enforced through the union.

 

This means that we have a better life and our animals have better life overall.

 

Yes, we pay a bit premium for some products, but as our quality of products is better, we also get paid more for our work.

 

I think the average salary in Finland is about 3000 euros or 120.000 baht per month for 37.5 work hours per week and 5 week summer holiday + other holidays. Meanwhile average salary in Thailand is perhaps 15.000 baht with 50 hours work week and far less holidays.  In EU we get much more bang for each hour we work, compared to the most of the world. 

 

I think that's pretty good deal for EU in general. 

 

With all the standards and rights for the workers, the money gained by exporting the products is distributed more equally to the people, not just to the stockholders / owners of these companies. That's also why the Nordic style of mixing capitalism and socialism works so well. 

 

We do pay more taxes than average states, but those moneys are being used to improve our current and future societies. Educate the kids well and they'll produce good products in the future. Thus they'll be inserting money to the economy and pay our pensions, roads, etc. 

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Fantasia

 

Paranoia

Well, conventional political wisdom has taken a battering over the last few years- some very surprising things have happened. 

 

Who'd have thought Labour could have run the Tories so close on what is an out and out Socialist manifesto?  Or that hard core Labour supporters would have voted for Brexit.  

 

I wouldn't rely on the past to predict the future.  We are in a new epoch and its broken rather rudely.

 

 

[My Thai Life]

It's hard to find anything that we can all agree about even in the smallest way, but maybe this comes close. Have a good weekend.

 

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

One of the EU's principles is to give all it's member states and the people who live in EU countries, similar possibilities to produce products to the EU markets. 

 

This means that EU can't allow products made by 'slave labour' to enter our markets. That's why some of the tarifs (which are taxes) so high for some products. This way EU can make sure that the same standards for workers and for example animal care are enforced through the union.

 

This means that we have a better life and our animals have better life overall.

 

Yes, we pay a bit premium for some products, but as our quality of products is better, we also get paid more for our work.

 

I think the average salary in Finland is about 3000 euros or 120.000 baht per month for 37.5 work hours per week and 5 week summer holiday + other holidays. Meanwhile average salary in Thailand is perhaps 15.000 baht with 50 hours work week and far less holidays.  In EU we get much more bang for each hour we work, compared to the most of the world. 

 

I think that's pretty good deal for EU in general. 

 

With all the standards and rights for the workers, the money gained by exporting the products is distributed more equally to the people, not just to the stockholders / owners of these companies. That's also why the Nordic style of mixing capitalism and socialism works so well. 

 

We do pay more taxes than average states, but those moneys are being used to improve our current and future societies. Educate the kids well and they'll produce good products in the future. Thus they'll be inserting money to the economy and pay our pensions, roads, etc. 

 

I chose not to use Thailand as a comparison but chose several EU countries instead to give a fairer comparison.

 

Compare Italy, Spain and Greece with Germany and Finland and tell me what equality means and what you consider slave wages.

 

http://www.worldsalaries.org/italy.shtml

 

https://www.expatica.com/new/es/employment/employment-law/wages-104545/

 

https://tradingeconomics.com/greece/wages

 

https://www.expatica.com/de/employment/minimum-wage-germany-average-salary-germany_995112.html

 

https://yle.fi/uutiset/osasto/news/average_monthly_salaries_inch_up_to_3300_euros/9199534

You are correct about Finland.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

In terms of global poverty criteria, the United Kingdom is a wealthy country, with virtually no people living on less than £4 a day. In 2012–13, median personal income was approximately £21,000 a year but varies considerably by age, location, data source and occupation.[2] There is both significant income redistribution and income inequality; for instance, in 2013/14 income in the top and bottom fifth of households was £80,800 and £5,500, respectively, before taxes and benefits (15:1). After tax and benefits, household income disparities are significantly reduced to £60,000 and £15,500 (4:1).[3]

The UK Gini coefficient for 2013/14 estimated at 0.34.[4] There were 720,000 net worth Sterling millionaires in the United Kingdom in 2015 (1 in 65 adults).[5] By contrast poorer people and people on average incomes have seen their real incomes stagnate since 2003.[6]

 

Reading those links makes some interesting reading especially the difference between the top and bottom earners.

 

One fact according to Wiki that really amazed me was this one.

 

There were 720,000 net worth Sterling millionaires in the United Kingdom in 2015 (1 in 65 adults).

Edited October 13, 2018 by billd766
added extra text

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, oilinki said:

One of the EU's principles is to give all it's member states and the people who live in EU countries, similar possibilities to produce products to the EU markets. 

 

This means that EU can't allow products made by 'slave labour' to enter our markets. That's why some of the tarifs (which are taxes) so high for some products. This way EU can make sure that the same standards for workers and for example animal care are enforced through the union.

 

This means that we have a better life and our animals have better life overall.

 

Yes, we pay a bit premium for some products, but as our quality of products is better, we also get paid more for our work.

 

I think the average salary in Finland is about 3000 euros or 120.000 baht per month for 37.5 work hours per week and 5 week summer holiday + other holidays. Meanwhile average salary in Thailand is perhaps 15.000 baht with 50 hours work week and far less holidays.  In EU we get much more bang for each hour we work, compared to the most of the world. 

 

I think that's pretty good deal for EU in general. 

 

With all the standards and rights for the workers, the money gained by exporting the products is distributed more equally to the people, not just to the stockholders / owners of these companies. That's also why the Nordic style of mixing capitalism and socialism works so well. 

 

We do pay more taxes than average states, but those moneys are being used to improve our current and future societies. Educate the kids well and they'll produce good products in the future. Thus they'll be inserting money to the economy and pay our pensions, roads, etc. 

I think you looking at the EU with rose tinted glasses

Are you aware of Posted workers issue

A new EU directive, announced in July, would limit the right of citizens from poorer member states to work in richer ones on a low salary.

France wants to overhaul the system which allows “posted” workers to be employed in other EU countries on contracts that need only guarantee the host country’s minimum wage, and allow taxes and social charges to be paid in a worker’s home nation.

France, however, has complained that central and eastern Europe gains an unfair advantage from the “social dumping” of cheap labour, arguing that posting low-paid workers hurts local jobs and erodes labour protections in higher-wage member states like France and Germany

Hungary and Poland said on Thursday (4 October) they have gone to the European Court of Justice to challenge tighter European Union rules on the employment of workers from low-pay EU states.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/hungary-poland-challenge-eus-posted-workers-reform-in-court/

Working Conditions in Europe for North Koreans Draw Political Scrutiny, Investigations

The European Union must hold its member countries accountable for labor law violations that have led to the abuse of workers from North Korea earning foreign currency for the Kim Jong Un regime, experts say. North Korea routinely sends workers abroad who labor in various industries, often for long hours and amid dangerous conditions, for little pay—most of which is sent home by their handlers to a government under international sanctions for developing a nuclear weapons program.

North Koreans are known to have worked in EU member countries Poland and Malta, where sources say they are housed in secure facilities with officials from Pyongyang who closely monitor their activities. They receive little free time and are prevented from interacting with other workers, the sources said. Remco Breuker, an expert on forced North Korean labor at Leiden University in the Netherlands, told RFA’s Korean Service that the public is well aware of human rights violations against North Korean workers in the EU, but the European Commission (EC)—which oversees the implementation of EU policies—has done little to address the problem

“Member countries think that there is no problem with employing North Korean workers because the EU allows it, and the EU insists that it cannot force the member countries to observe labor laws.”

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/special/nkinvestigation/europe.html

Modern-day slavery’ on the rise in Europe: report

https://www.politico.eu/article/labor-trafficking-exploitation-modern-day-slavery-on-the-rise-in-europe-report/

 

A brief look at Europe's tainted food scandals

1), 

1981: Spanish tainted oil -

Some 1,200 people are killed in Spain in May 1981 after being poisoned by tainted colza oil, sold as a substitute for olive oil in Madrid's suburbs. 

 1986: Mad cow disease -

1990: Benzene-tainted Perrier -

1999: Chickengate -

 1999: Coca-Cola recall 

2011: E.Coli scare

In July 2011, after 48 people die in Germany, the European Food Safety Agency slaps a temporary ban on all seeds and beans from Egypt after it blames a batch of contaminated fenugreek seeds imported to Germany 42013: Horse-meat scandal -

https://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2017/08/11/a-brief-look-at-europes-tainted-food-scandals

 

Toxic eggs expose EU’s struggle to police food safety

A snowballing scandal over a toxic insecticide found in eggs in 15 EU countries is exposing alarming weaknesses in the mechanisms for protecting Europeans from cross-border food poisoning cases.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fipronil-eggs-scandal-toxic-expose-eus-struggle-to-police-food-safety/

HOW DIESELGATE SAVED GERMANY’S CAR INDUSTRY

This is North Korea minus the labor camps,” Germany’s premier magazine Der Spiegel wrote in 2013 to describe Volkswagen, the country’s largest automaker. The statement referred to the way Martin Winterkorn, then-CEO of VW, was leading the company: no one dared to criticize his decisions, not even top executives. A climate of fear prevailed.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/19/17878730/dieselgate-saved-germanys-car-industry-vw-volkswagen-bmw-eu

 

[Stupooey]

3 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Ok. I apologise.

 

Thank you. I've been called some pretty nasty things on this thread, but a TORY!!!? That just about takes the biscuit!

[Stupooey]

36 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I think you looking at the EU with rose tinted glasses

Are you aware of Posted workers issue

A new EU directive, announced in July, would limit the right of citizens from poorer member states to work in richer ones on a low salary.

France wants to overhaul the system which allows “posted” workers to be employed in other EU countries on contracts that need only guarantee the host country’s minimum wage, and allow taxes and social charges to be paid in a worker’s home nation.

France, however, has complained that central and eastern Europe gains an unfair advantage from the “social dumping” of cheap labour, arguing that posting low-paid workers hurts local jobs and erodes labour protections in higher-wage member states like France and Germany

Hungary and Poland said on Thursday (4 October) they have gone to the European Court of Justice to challenge tighter European Union rules on the employment of workers from low-pay EU states.

https://www.euractiv.com/section/central-europe/news/hungary-poland-challenge-eus-posted-workers-reform-in-court/

Working Conditions in Europe for North Koreans Draw Political Scrutiny, Investigations

The European Union must hold its member countries accountable for labor law violations that have led to the abuse of workers from North Korea earning foreign currency for the Kim Jong Un regime, experts say. North Korea routinely sends workers abroad who labor in various industries, often for long hours and amid dangerous conditions, for little pay—most of which is sent home by their handlers to a government under international sanctions for developing a nuclear weapons program.

North Koreans are known to have worked in EU member countries Poland and Malta, where sources say they are housed in secure facilities with officials from Pyongyang who closely monitor their activities. They receive little free time and are prevented from interacting with other workers, the sources said. Remco Breuker, an expert on forced North Korean labor at Leiden University in the Netherlands, told RFA’s Korean Service that the public is well aware of human rights violations against North Korean workers in the EU, but the European Commission (EC)—which oversees the implementation of EU policies—has done little to address the problem

“Member countries think that there is no problem with employing North Korean workers because the EU allows it, and the EU insists that it cannot force the member countries to observe labor laws.”

https://www.rfa.org/english/news/special/nkinvestigation/europe.html

Modern-day slavery’ on the rise in Europe: report

https://www.politico.eu/article/labor-trafficking-exploitation-modern-day-slavery-on-the-rise-in-europe-report/

 

A brief look at Europe's tainted food scandals

1), 

1981: Spanish tainted oil -

Some 1,200 people are killed in Spain in May 1981 after being poisoned by tainted colza oil, sold as a substitute for olive oil in Madrid's suburbs. 

 1986: Mad cow disease -

1990: Benzene-tainted Perrier -

1999: Chickengate -

 1999: Coca-Cola recall 

2011: E.Coli scare

In July 2011, after 48 people die in Germany, the European Food Safety Agency slaps a temporary ban on all seeds and beans from Egypt after it blames a batch of contaminated fenugreek seeds imported to Germany 42013: Horse-meat scandal -

https://www.dailysabah.com/europe/2017/08/11/a-brief-look-at-europes-tainted-food-scandals

 

Toxic eggs expose EU’s struggle to police food safety

A snowballing scandal over a toxic insecticide found in eggs in 15 EU countries is exposing alarming weaknesses in the mechanisms for protecting Europeans from cross-border food poisoning cases.

https://www.politico.eu/article/fipronil-eggs-scandal-toxic-expose-eus-struggle-to-police-food-safety/

HOW DIESELGATE SAVED GERMANY’S CAR INDUSTRY

This is North Korea minus the labor camps,” Germany’s premier magazine Der Spiegel wrote in 2013 to describe Volkswagen, the country’s largest automaker. The statement referred to the way Martin Winterkorn, then-CEO of VW, was leading the company: no one dared to criticize his decisions, not even top executives. A climate of fear prevailed.

https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/19/17878730/dieselgate-saved-germanys-car-industry-vw-volkswagen-bmw-eu

 

 

These incidents are only relevant to the argument if you can attribute them directly to EU policies and show they wouldn't have happened otherwise. To my mind, 8 cases spread across 28 countries over almost 40 years, whilst regrettable, is hardly excessive.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

 

The advice given is good basic advice: any firm wishing to do business inside the EU will need an EU registered office. For firms merely exporting to the EU it's not necessary.

 

The last sentence is not entirely true either.

Post brexit, as a third country companies exporting to the EU where the product requires CE marking will be required to have representation within the EU. Either there own office or an agent, something not currently required but another brexit barrier to trade.

[Stupooey]

On ‎10‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:03 PM, Jip99 said:

 

 

Interestingly, speaking to several people who voted remain, they too were surprised that we were starting from scratch in sorting out a deal. More than half of those remainders are disgusted with the position taken by the EU that they would actually change their vote. 

 

 

 

 

In my previous reply, I forgot to congratulate you for coining the term "remainders" (presumably a typo!), which brilliantly describes the 15 million whose opinions are being overlooked. Much better than the ubiquitous "remoaner" insult, usually used by people who have been moaning themselves for the last 40 years.

 

In fact, I believe we can use the remainder theorem to solve the whole Brexit dilemma, as follows:

 

To show that the polynomial remainder theorem holds for an arbitrary second degree polynomial f(x)=ax2+bx+c{\displaystyle f(x)=ax^{2}+bx+c} by using algebraic manipulation:

 

f(x)x−r=ax2+bx+cx−r=ax2−arx+arx+bx+cx−r=ax(x−r)+(b+ar)x+cx−r=ax+(b+ar)(x−r)+c+r(b+ar)x−r=ax+b+ar+c+r(b+ar)x−r=ax+b+ar+ar2+br+cx−r{\displaystyle {\begin{aligned}{\frac {f(x)}{x-r}}&={\frac {a{x^{2}}+bx+c}{x-r}}\\&={\frac {a{x^{2}}-arx+arx+bx+c}{x-r}}\\&={\frac {ax(x-r)+(b+ar)x+c}{x-r}}\\&=ax+{\frac {(b+ar)(x-r)+c+r(b+ar)}{x-r}}\\&=ax+b+ar+{\frac {c+r(b+ar)}{x-r}}\\&=ax+b+ar+{\frac {a{r^{2}}+br+c}{x-r}}\end{aligned}}}

Multiplying both sides by (x − r) gives

f(x)=ax2+bx+c=(ax+b+ar)(x−r)+ar2+br+c{\displaystyle f(x)=ax^{2}+bx+c=(ax+b+ar)(x-r)+{a{r^{2}}+br+c}}.

Since R=ar2+br+c{\displaystyle R=ar^{2}+br+c} is our remainder, we have indeed shown that f(r)=R{\displaystyle f(r)=R}.

 

Where f(r) = final result

            R  = Remain

 

QED

 

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Stupooey
Posted incomplete

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Well, conventional political wisdom has taken a battering over the last few years- some very surprising things have happened. 

 

Who'd have thought Labour could have run the Tories so close on what is an out and out Socialist manifesto?  Or that hard core Labour supporters would have voted for Brexit.  

 

I wouldn't rely on the past to predict the future.  We are in a new epoch and its broken rather rudely.

 

 

It wouldn't be out of the question for some people to think that putting up with a Labour government for 5 years may be a price worth paying to get out of this mess.

After all the following government can put it all right again, that's democracy, isn't it.

[mommysboy]

Lots of unintended consequences in store (not just for Tories). Here's one of them: demoralised party fearing defeat. 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/general-election-conservative-party-candidates-shortage-theresa-may-leadership-brexit-mps-a8582296.html

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, sandyf said:

It wouldn't be out of the question for some people to think that putting up with a Labour government for 5 years may be a price worth paying to get out of this mess.

After all the following government can put it all right again, that's democracy, isn't it.

Expect the unexpected. Who knows.

 

If I had to list in order of likelihood:

 

Brexit deal voted down.

No confidence vote and general election. 

Scottish devolution. 

A Labour Government and a referendum on the deal 

Irish devolution. 

The Conservative party splits in two.

 

 

[Stupooey]

Duplicate post

 

Edited October 13, 2018 by Stupooey
Posted in error

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, mommysboy said:

Expect the unexpected. Who knows.

 

If I had to list in order of likelihood:

 

Brexit deal voted down.

No confidence vote and general election. 

Scottish devolution. 

A Labour Government and a referendum on the deal 

Irish devolution. 

The Conservative party splits in two.

 

 

 

I see,

busy year or 2 ahead for the bookies

 

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

Fantasia

 

Paranoia

Idiocy

[Grouse]

May I recommend the "3 blokes in a pub" blog series?

 

15 hours of interesting discussion and explanations.

[melvinmelvin]

44 minutes ago, Grouse said:

May I recommend the "3 blokes in a pub" blog series?

 

15 hours of interesting discussion and explanations.

 

a step up from Three men in a boat, by Jerome?

 

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

a step up from Three men in a boat, by Jerome?

 

Substantially more amusing and educational!

[kwilco]

6 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Then please keep your version of the EU.

 

However please try to explain to me where all the money to pay for this is coming from, how much it will cost and who will bear that cost. 

 

Yes the EU IS all about money, and control too.

 

You personally have no say in what does or does not come into the EU markets and I doubt if Finland has any control either.

 

To quote you  

 

Now that UK is leaving EU, there is a fear that for example those workers rights will be slashed in UK to make UK products cheaper compared to EU products.

 

Do you have any proof of what you have said and if the UK can make or sell goods cheaper than before, why should the EU object to that? After all cheaper goods are what most people want, but you want to keep prices high at the cost of the people living in the EU, by forcing artificially high prices when goods can be bought cheaper elsewhere.

 

BTW thank you for the snippet from Allo Allo. I enjoyed it.

Many people think they will be able to buy stuff around the world. heaper outside Brexit - this is of course nonsense - the EU has a buying power well over that of a single nation and also has say in quality control....

 

 

[kwilco]

there is no doubt that workers rights will be slashed and of course the quality of foods UK imports will go down as the UK desperately tries to replace the goods from EU and restock the supermarket shelves.