UK voters should make final Brexit decision if talks with EU collapse: poll

[damascase]

5 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Further its not about what countries we deal with but what trade we can negotiate

I buy prawns from Thailand and due to EU tariffs have to pay 20% duty. A free trade agreement with Thailand could make this 0%


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

The EU started negotiations with Thailand for a free trade agreement in 2013, but the militairy takeover stopped the process.

[melvinmelvin]

52 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Can you explain to me which countries in the world the UK is stopped from doing business with by the EU? The answer is none. Germany and Italy do a great deal of business in China because they produce goods that China wants. Being in the EU is not an impediment. We have a deal currently with 27 EU countries together with another 65 countries that the EU negotiated, including Japan just recently. Leaving on no deal means that the give all those deals up and start from scratch. I don’t think that the UK will starve if there is a no deal Brexit but it will do great damage to the economy. The terms that we currently have with the WTO will change because we are a smaller country, and any deals we make will come with costs. The Northern Irish farmers union last week said a deal with the US would destroy their industry. It’s not like the day after the referendum, not that bad. We have never left the EU, that’s why. 

you  are largely right in what you say

but UK must trade on EU terms or no terms

 

UK is not free to arrange a trade deal with a 3rd country

 

3rd party trade stuff is handled by the Commission, not by member states

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

you  are largely right in what you say

but UK must trade on EU terms or no terms

 

UK is not free to arrange a trade deal with a 3rd country

 

3rd party trade stuff is handled by the Commission, not by member states

 

 

Once we're free of the shackles of Europe and the dead hand of Brussels we can get back to the great trading nation that we were, with the commitment to open borders and free trade that gave us two wars with China.

 

[melvinmelvin]

6 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Once we're free of the shackles of Europe and the dead hand of Brussels we can get back to the great trading nation that we were, with the commitment to open borders and free trade that gave us two wars with China.

 

the way things are going right now, you may reach that point sometime in 2022

 

 

[nontabury]

10 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Further its not about what countries we deal with but what trade we can negotiate

I buy prawns from Thailand and due to EU tariffs have to pay 20% duty. A free trade agreement with Thailand could make this 0%


Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

I think yours is just one of many examples,were it would be possible for the U.K to import foods at a lower price,from the rest of the world,especially Africa. Which would be good for us and more importantly good for Africa,as it would reduce their dependency on our charitable gifts.

 Strangely over the last couple of years,remoaners on these threads,have stated that should we escape the E.U. that the cost of food would increase. Of course there was no substance to their prophecies. All it did was to add, to project fear.

 

[damascase]

9 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Once we're free of the shackles of Europe and the dead hand of Brussels we can get back to the great trading nation that we were, with the commitment to open borders and free trade that gave us two wars with China.

 

‘The shackles of Europe, the dead hand of Brussels’: blame is the name of the game..................

[billd766]

2 hours ago, bomber said:

correct,another vote and iam would quite sure it would be 58-63% remain if not higher

Your figures add up to 121%.

 

Did you fail in maths at school?

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, damascase said:

‘The shackles of Europe, the dead hand of Brussels’: blame is the name of the game..................

I'm not blaming anyone.  They can't help being petty-fogging, bureaucratic red-tape zombies with the mentality of Colditz hospitality consultants. 

 

I'm just saying that once we get the gunboats back on the water the world will be a happier, freer place and everyone will thank us for our contribution to trade and prosperity, just as they did in 1856.    

 

SC

[adammike]

10 minutes ago, nontabury said:

I think yours is just one of many examples,were it would be possible for the U.K to import foods at a lower price,from the rest of the world,especially Africa. Which would be good for us and more importantly good for Africa,as it would reduce their dependency on our charitable gifts.

 Strangely over the last couple of years,remoaners on these threads,have stated that should we escape the E.U. that the cost of food would increase. Of course there was no substance to their prophecies. All it did was to add, to project fear.

 

The UK hasn't left the EU.

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, billd766 said:

Your figures add up to 121%.

 

Did you fail in maths at school?

Perhaps he meant 'between 58% and 63% in favour of 'remain'.  

Literacy is as important as arithmetic, as espoused (though not exemplified) in the 3 Rs.

 

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm confused as to why so many consider Grouse intelligent - bearing in mind most of his comments are pure insults against anyone with a different opinion??!

Get a grip

 

I never make claims to great intelligence. I have had an excellent education and I am well read.

 

I never insult individuals but you do tempt me! ????

[bomber]

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Your figures add up to 121%.

 

Did you fail in maths at school?

nope

 

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Perhaps he meant 'between 58% and 63% in favour of 'remain'. .

 

correct

Edited November 19, 2018 by bomber

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

I'm not blaming anyone.  They can't help being petty-fogging, bureaucratic red-tape zombies with the mentality of Colditz hospitality consultants. 

 

I'm just saying that once we get the gunboats back on the water the world will be a happier, freer place and everyone will thank us for our contribution to trade and prosperity, just as they did in 1856.    

 

SC

It's that awkward moment when your sarcasm is so good, people think you are being serious. ????????

[mogandave]

Get a grip
 
I never make claims to great intelligence. I have had an excellent education and I am well read.
 
I never insult individuals but you do tempt me! [emoji6]

Still waiting...,

[AlexRich]

31 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

I'm losing hope, yes. Not that I ever had much for the majority of Remoaners on here, yourself included of course, but with a little luck mine and my fellow Brexiteers' hopes for a proper outcome might be reinvigorated in coming weeks, we shall see. In the meantime, glad I'm entertaining you if nothing else. ????

 

Obviously I gave up on changing anyone's mind a loooong time ago.

 

Here’s a prediction on your “proper outcome” if May’s plan (or an amended version) fails to get through Parliament:

 

1) MPs looking at a “no deal” outcome have to look over the edge of the Brexit cliff.

2) ERG group will be willing them to jump along with themselves.

3) The majority of MPs, cross party, who do not want this, force a vote in Parliament for a second referendum.

4) Brexit dream falls apart, public vote to stay in the EU.

 

You talk about the 17.4 million as if it was a winner takes all vote and everybody else, some 48 million, have just to join the suicide pact. The problem is that you can’t force no deal on everybody else, what May has done is tried to offer something for all. You get your Brexit, and you get the opportunity to agree final terms over two to three years without messing up the UK economy. By wanting everything you will end up with nothing at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[billd766]

4 minutes ago, StreetCowboy said:

Perhaps he meant 'between 58% and 63% in favour of 'remain'.  

Literacy is as important as arithmetic, as espoused (though not exemplified) in the 3 Rs.

 

I have a feeling that I may have had a brain fart just then as it has been a long day since I got up at 05:15 and it was still dark.

[bomber]

BJs 3 water cannon vehicle's which he ordered after the london riots were sold at auction today for £11k each,they cost £110,000 each and were never used,stick that stat on the side of ya double decker Boris.

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, mogandave said:

 

Still waiting...,

 

Ha!

 

patience is a virtue. Enjoy the anticipation!

[StreetCowboy]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

It's that awkward moment when your sarcasm is so good, people think you are being serious. ????????

It's that awkward moment when you realise that honest integrity might be mistaken for sarcasm.

 

Just kidding, nobody's going to make the mistake of thinking guys like Farage or Mogg are driven by honest integrity.  They can just afford bigger cruel jokes at the expense of more people than can you or I.

[bomber]

3 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Here’s a prediction on your “proper outcome” if May’s plan (or an amended version) fails to get through Parliament:

 

1) MPs looking at a “no deal” outcome have to look over the edge of the Brexit cliff.

2) ERG group will be willing them to jump along with themselves.

3) The majority of MPs, cross party, who do not want this, force a vote in Parliament for a second referendum.

4) Brexit dream falls apart, public vote to stay in the EU.

 

You talk about the 17.4 million as if it was a winner takes all vote and everybody else, some 48 million, have just to join the suicide pact. The problem is that you can’t force no deal on everybody else, what May has done is tried to offer something for all. You get your Brexit, and you get the opportunity to agree final terms over two to three years without messing up the UK economy. By wanting everything you will end up with nothing at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

and the pound gains 15% and tens of thousands of jobs are saved,seems a decent enough outcome for the sake of a few thousand polish spud bashers hanging about for a few years

[AlexRich]

4 minutes ago, bomber said:

BJs 3 water cannon vehicle's which he ordered after the london riots were sold at auction today for £11k each,they cost £110,000 each and were never used,stick that stat on the side of ya double decker Boris.

 

It amazes me that people look at that clown and think he’s the guy to deliver Brexit ... I wouldn’t trust him to deliver pizza.

[StreetCowboy]

1 minute ago, AlexRich said:

 

It amazes me that people look at that clown and think he’s the guy to deliver Brexit ... I wouldn’t trust him to deliver pizza.

He's a keen cyclist, but I'm not sure he could follow a road map.

I don't think  he's one for listening to instructions. 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

I repeat, E.U. Citizens owe the British tax payer 1.3 Billion £ +.

Regarding the debt from Australia, that includes British citizens, who after completing their University education then depart the U.K for warmer climates. Very similar to many University graduates, who come to live and work in Thailand. This of course is all down to the Question,should university education be free.

While I don’t condone want they do. I certainly think that once Again the British tax payers are being taken for a ride by the E.U.

And why are British tax paying citizens discriminated against? Just a fraction of this money could pay for the 100% +50% that British, Tax paying ex - pats must pay.

Please Candide, if you are British, think about the interest of your fellow citizens, first and foremost.

 

 

1.3B is chicken feed

 

Why are you so hung  about money?

[StreetCowboy]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

I repeat, E.U. Citizens owe the British tax payer 1.3 Billion £ +.

Regarding the debt from Australia, that includes British citizens, who after completing their University education then depart the U.K for warmer climates. Very similar to many University graduates, who come to live and work in Thailand. This of course is all down to the Question,should university education be free.

While I don’t condone want they do. I certainly think that once Again the British tax payers are being taken for a ride by the E.U.

And why are British tax paying citizens discriminated against? Just a fraction of this money could pay for the 100% +50% that British, Tax paying ex - pats must pay.

Please Candide, if you are British, think about the interest of your fellow citizens, first and foremost.

 

 

Do any British citizens owe money to any other European states?

How much, in aggregate?

 

Will leaving the EU make it easier ti recover the GBP 1B?

 

Do any citizens of non-EU states owe the British government anything?

Is the proportion of unpaid debt higher per capita for EU or non-EU visitors?

 

 

 

[candide]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

 

I repeat, E.U. Citizens owe the British tax payer 1.3 Billion £ +.

Regarding the debt from Australia, that includes British citizens, who after completing their University education then depart the U.K for warmer climates. Very similar to many University graduates, who come to live and work in Thailand. This of course is all down to the Question,should university education be free.

While I don’t condone want they do. I certainly think that once Again the British tax payers are being taken for a ride by the E.U.

And why are British tax paying citizens discriminated against? Just a fraction of this money could pay for the 100% +50% that British, Tax paying ex - pats must pay.

Please Candide, if you are British, think about the interest of your fellow citizens, first and foremost.

 

 

I guess we refer to the same article

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/820072/Scandal-foreign-EU-students-owe-Britain-1-2-BILLION-student-loans-university/amp

It is a bit strange as the link suggests it comes only from EU students but in the article it concerns students from the whole world.

Anyway, as mentioned by another poster it has nothing to do with EU status as students from any country can get a student loan. It's 100% a UK law issue.

[StreetCowboy]

20 minutes ago, Grouse said:

1.3B is chicken feed

 

Why are you so hung  about money?

Its not about the money.  Young people have enjoyed themselves at my expense, as if they were on a student grant.

[Grouse]

6 hours ago, nontabury said:

It was mostly the USA that built up Europe after WW2.

And since that time, again it’s been the USA who have financed the defence of Europe. 

Compared to Finland who at one time fought with NAZI Germany against the Allies. And who have since the end of WW2 relied on NATO to defend them, without Finland paying towards the costs. Free riders.

Incorrect. Fake news actually. I respect your stance on Brexit but there are limits. I will demolish your post if necessary using depleted uranium facts 

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

Most probably the lack of man and women power plus a doubling up on material resources and the cost of starting and Army of xxx,xxx people and all the infrastructure that goes with it.

 

NATO HQ is in Brussels and to run 2 organisations with much the same targets and ideas will be expensive, There are only 5 countries contributing 2% of GDP into NATO now and to start a new EU military from scratch means that the 27 EU countries will have to stump up even more of their GDP.

 

Just assuming the plan gets off the ground, what will the new Army do all day that isn't already being done by NATO.

 

Putin must be laughing his socks off.

The ultimate weapon we have is civil society. Putin can not compete. His people would DEARLY love to be in the EU but can not. In these days of social media and the internet, any threat from Russia is bust.

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Incorrect. Fake news actually. I respect your stance on Brexit but there are limits. I will demolish your post if necessary using depleted uranium facts 

I thought Finland fought with the Allies against USSR and Germany?  

It was before my time, so I'll have to rely on you older chaps, but as I understand, when Germany attacked Russia, the Allies abandoned Finland and joined the Russian side.  I suppose it depends on perspective

 

SC

 

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, StreetCowboy said:

I thought Finland fought with the Allies against USSR and Germany?  

It was before my time, so I'll have to rely on you older chaps, but as I understand, when Germany attacked Russia, the Allies abandoned Finland and joined the Russian side.  I suppose it depends on perspective

 

SC

 

The 20th century history of Finland is fascinating. Some great documentaries on YouTube. The Finns did indeed side with the NAZIs at one point against the USSR. But you should read the history.  (And listen to Sibelius at the same time!)