Rise in human rabies deaths blamed on poor quality vaccines

[mogandave]

If only we could get the gun-lovers and dog-haters together.

We could sell tags...

[Nickymaster]

5 hours ago, Dutchjohn said:

I'm sure glad you're not my neighbour.

Me too!

[Myran]

4 hours ago, Ginner said:

This is a Buddhist country. They believe EVERY living animal has a right to life.

.  

Then why aren't all buddhist Thais vegetarians?

[AdamTheFarang]

19 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

"...I have been informed by many officers in local administrative organisations that as of now, they have not received the new 10 million lots of imported rabies vaccines that Livestock Development had promised to distribute to the entire nation earlier this year. They were forced to use old vaccines to immunise local dogs and cats,” Thiravat said..."

 

Good to know the government is keeping up on this (sarcasm alert)

 

"...The problems this year are caused by agencies failing to perform their duties, he said. Instead of admitting their shortcomings and asking for assistance, they keep insisting that the situation is under control..."

 

This sounds like putting your head in the sand, and is impossible in Thai culture (sarcasm alert).

 

"...But Wiriya Kaewthong, the director of the Livestock Development Depart-ment’s Disease Control and Veterinary Services Bureau, said the vaccine problems are not solely the responsibility of his department..."

 

This sounds like he is trying to pass the responsibility, and that is impossible in Thai culture (sarcasm alert).

 

This report does not fill me with confidence...

 

 

How do you say "I will take responsibility" in Thai?

[Happyman58]

Well, they bought old subs why not use old vaccines. I would say the money that was supposed to be used to buy new vaccines got lost somewhere. Happens a lot here lol

[The Deerhunter]

On 8/15/2018 at 7:51 AM, Nickymaster said:

Don't be surprised if one day you find yourself in a very unfortunate situation. Karma is a B

No.  Karma is not a <deleted>.    It is superstitious B.S.

[dave moir]

On 8/15/2018 at 4:42 AM, leeneeds said:

I have seen so many dead dogs left on the road after being hit or fallen from pickups,

no care or responsibility taken by their  owners, (great carers they are) soi dogs that continue to harass and bite innocent kids and still the dogs are left to roam the streets unchecked, The cost of vaccination and the duty should not be on local administrators, but the owners them selfs, 

dying of rabies is not FATE!

 

Street dogs don't have owners!

[The Deerhunter]

17 hours ago, ThaiFelix said:

If I remember correctly  "many people thought the problem was solved" because the govt made announcements saying it was all under control!!  What happened?? 

 

Sounds like the usual announcements such as "No prostitution detected in Pattaya"!!

 

For a country so concerned about losing face this govt seems to accomplish it every time it opens its mouth.

But never mind.  If they do lose face they will fall back on that other Thai mantra.  "It was someone else's fault."

Never admit fault.  Never say sorry. Do any thing, even kill, to prevent loss of face; but, then run to a temple and say someone else did it.  (I think living here has made me quite cynical about people that I used to admire when I was only a tourist.).  Reality us painful.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts, troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[geriatrickid]

On 8/14/2018 at 10:14 PM, Get Real said:

So, I guess you are the only one that understands all about this, and at the same time connected to a Soi Dog foundation. You do see that makes you blind to the facts, right?

There is no benefit in having a population of stray dogs in a modern society. You can discuss this as long as you want, until you heart for this annoying population of pure filth contempt.

I have also said that I rasied and have 2 dogs myself, and have great respect for animals that are well taken care of. That is not the case with soi, and stray dogs.

As you are so enlightened on this subject everytime it emerges. Can you please provide 3 positive effects of a stray dog population.
(Do your best now, and don´t produce rubbish that can be torn down by using ordinary common sense)

I have nothing to do with Soi Dog, although I have donated in the past. Nor do I speak on its behalf. My position in this matter is based upon established and accepted public health practice. The facts that I will set out are uncontested and are how public health officials are trained. An established and maintained feral population of domestic animals (e.g. cats or dogs) will keep out other feral animals from establishing a territory. In plain language the outsiders are chased off.  Through catch and release the feral population is vaccinated and neutered. Sick or injured animals are  appropriately cared for. The public health and veterinary literature all support this strategy.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 10:22 PM, Khun Paul said:

While I understand that Rabies comes from  dogs, The ineffective way and the THAI CULTURE of refusing to cull SOI Dogs is also part of the reason . My friend was bitten by a SOPI Dog and to ensure he was not infected he went through a painful course and expensive as well of Rabies Injections .

Had the relevant AUTHORITY dealt with the SOI dogs on his estate, he would not have been bitten. 

Now should when bitten SUE the Local authority or just sue the Thai Government whose incompetence in  this matter is beyond logical reasoning. 

Dogs owned and fed and cared for by people are OK but these SOI dogs, breed and are in fact quite dangerous in some instances. A national effort to cull and get rid of these dogs would certainly lower the risk to HUMANS of a Rabies infection. 

Which is more important Humans or Dogs ( AKA Thai Culture )   ??????

A cull alone solves nothing because new animals will arrive to take over the  vacated territory, and they will quickly breed. Populations increase when there is no competition. Keep in mind that  dogs and cats are but one of the reservoirs of the disease. Thailand still has a large agrarian component and farm animals can and do serve as reservoirs of disease. Cattle can  become infected.  Understand too that rabies is not stagnant it can be carried across borders. Surin has the highest incidence. It is also located in a cross border disease reservoir. Without  a near 100% vaccination rate in Surin, there will always be hot pockets of  infection.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 10:22 PM, lvr181 said:

Well, they didn't, did they? 

Actually, the results in Thailand are still excellent. In fact they are still statitistically at the top of the performance chart. Singapore and Malaysia are rabies free. 17 or so cases of rabies in total, while tragic for the victims, is not really a crisis within the general population. You  know what a crisis is? The number of people dying in car crashes every day, and the number is greater in one day than the annual total of Thailand's rabies deaths. Some perspective is called for.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 10:58 PM, tigermoth said:

Until the soi dogs and all dogs running free outside the owners property are exterminated they will never get rid of people dieing of rabies. Why do the authorities put dogs lives before human lives????"?

Hysterical claims such as yours are why some views are dismissed with a  condescending guffaw. The authorities have not put  dog lives before human lives. They do however, have limited budgets. A few rabies deaths , while unfortunate cannot be allowed to consume large amounts of available funds when there are thousands dying from other preventable infectious diseases such as parasites, TB, HIV and pediatric diarrhea. Are you aware that this week more children will die of diarrhea related rotavirus infection, than will have died of rabies in the past 3 years? Again, the word perspective is appropriate for this matter. The rabies outbreak is manageable and not a crisis at this point, so cool it, and worry more about the person coughing next to you as that person is more likely to be infected with incurable TB than you are of being infected  with rabies.

 

On 8/14/2018 at 11:05 PM, Catoni said:

        Before flying to southeast Asia.... I had my Rabies Pre-Exposure vaccination shots in Canada with vaccine produced in one of the best western companies recommended by the CDC and WHO.     

     A short while ago... just to make sure of its effectiveness over time... I had my titers checked.... and they are at an excellent level.  

            If bitten by a rabid animal... I would need only a further two shots of vaccine.. and I would not need the sometimes very hard to find Human Rabies Immune Globulin....  which can also cost a few thousands bucks in some places... 

           Not sure I would trust vaccines from some unknown Chinese company.. ...  Nope... don't think I would. 

The vaccine you used in Canada was most likely the same one I was using when I was in the field, the Sanofi Pasteur   Imovax vaccine. It is an amazing creation. The master strain is sourced from the Wistar Institute, in the USA. It it is grown  in human tissue. The virus is then harvested from infected human diploid cells,  concentrated and is inactivated and freeze dried. It is then reconstituted when needed. It has an unparalleled  success record.

Most people are unaware but  the MRC-5 cell strain used for the vaccine started with fetal lung cells from an aborted fetus. Dr. Hayflick was the brilliant scientist who discovered that vaccines were more effective when derived from  human cells.

The reason why some of the other rabies vaccines do not work as effectively are because they are derived from chicken or duck embryo sources.  The USA, Canada and Europe all use the human cell sourced vaccine.

 

I bet no one here was aware that the most effective vaccines are derived from the cell tissue of two aborted fetuses, the cells of which  have been on a reproduction spurt for some time. 

Edited August 16, 2018 by geriatrickid

[mindfulness]

... idle around wait until numbers get higher, boom ! UN / World Health organisation throws money to a struggling situation. 

[puck2]

I remember China had some pharmaceutical/vaccine scandals. Among them vaccines against rabies. I wouldn't be surprised if the concerned companies sold these „fake“ pharmaceuticals to Thailand, cheaply of course.

Google: rabies scandal in China

Example:  BEIJING (AP) — Chinese state media say a total of 15 people have been detained in a growing scandal over the faking of records by a rabies vaccine maker. ….......

https://apnews.com/700f27d25e8d4118979f9781750ebe25

[sandyf]

7 hours ago, dave moir said:

Street dogs don't have owners!

Quite, but many on this thread are not interested in some of the basic facts. The Thai government is between a rock and a hard place having been badly criticised in the international press by the likes of Dame Judi Dench, do people really think they are going to stick their neck out again by culling the dogs. With the vaccination project they have adopted a low profile approach which will take time. The plan is in operation, the government vet came to our house, we have around 50 cats and 8 dogs, he ran out of vaccine and had to come back. The vet was telling us that the soi dogs are a real problem due to the lack of owners and they are looking into how to tackle it, first priority was to deal with domestics as they have greater contact with humans.

People complain about the problem getting worse but do they ever think to wonder why, dogs have been around since time began, there should be thousands of them about. Years ago they were rounded up and disposed of until people started complaining about the methods being used, you can satisfy some of the people etc etc.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[lvr181]

13 hours ago, sandyf said:

Quite, but many on this thread are not interested in some of the basic facts. The Thai government is between a rock and a hard place having been badly criticised in the international press by the likes of Dame Judi Dench, do people really think they are going to stick their neck out again by culling the dogs. With the vaccination project they have adopted a low profile approach which will take time. The plan is in operation, the government vet came to our house, we have around 50 cats and 8 dogs, he ran out of vaccine and had to come back. The vet was telling us that the soi dogs are a real problem due to the lack of owners and they are looking into how to tackle it, first priority was to deal with domestics as they have greater contact with humans.

People complain about the problem getting worse but do they ever think to wonder why, dogs have been around since time began, there should be thousands of them about. Years ago they were rounded up and disposed of until people started complaining about the methods being used, you can satisfy some of the people etc etc.

I can only guess that Dench has never had to put up with the conditions that are currently affecting Thailand (and maybe others) with dog problems. People "in ivory towers" comes to mind.

 

And I do like animals but some people do not care enough about their pets (or animals under their control) and therefore this can impact negatively on others. BE RESPONSIBLE. 

 

And for those who do not keep up with the latest news, be wary about buying vaccines from China.

[sandyf]

2 hours ago, lvr181 said:

I can only guess that Dench has never had to put up with the conditions that are currently affecting Thailand (and maybe others) with dog problems. People "in ivory towers" comes to mind.

 

And I do like animals but some people do not care enough about their pets (or animals under their control) and therefore this can impact negatively on others. BE RESPONSIBLE. 

 

And for those who do not keep up with the latest news, be wary about buying vaccines from China.

Your first point is spot on and trying to embarrass the Thai government is not a solution to anything.

The real problem is dogs that have no owner so any comment about responsibility is a bit meaningless, particularly on this forum. My wife and her sister run a voluntary sanctuary for unwanted cats and they also take dogs off the street. All the animals are treated at the vets at their own expense.

What many do not seem to realise that when it comes to rabies cats can be as big a threat,if not greater, dogs invariably develop the disease and die, cats can carry the virus throughout their life.

[bubblehead]

On 8/15/2018 at 6:02 AM, jak2002003 said:

The dogs are growing in number in my street.  Used to be 3 or 4.  Now last night my 2 dogs were barking constantly.. so I went outside to see what the fuss was about.  Outside out gate pulling apart the neighbours rubbish bags were 11 dogs of all sizes.  Went out to scare them off... but they just started barking and growing at me, so I had to retreat.  

 

Here in Thailand the dog problem is just like any other problem.  Easier and cheaper for the people just to burry their heads in the sand and ignore it.  

So your 2 dogs were out barking constantly annoying the neighbors too!!!

[Catoni]

22 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

I have nothing to do with Soi Dog, although I have donated in the past. Nor do I speak on its behalf. My position in this matter is based upon established and accepted public health practice. The facts that I will set out are uncontested and are how public health officials are trained. An established and maintained feral population of domestic animals (e.g. cats or dogs) will keep out other feral animals from establishing a territory. In plain language the outsiders are chased off.  Through catch and release the feral population is vaccinated and neutered. Sick or injured animals are  appropriately cared for. The public health and veterinary literature all support this strategy.

 

A cull alone solves nothing because new animals will arrive to take over the  vacated territory, and they will quickly breed. Populations increase when there is no competition. Keep in mind that  dogs and cats are but one of the reservoirs of the disease. Thailand still has a large agrarian component and farm animals can and do serve as reservoirs of disease. Cattle can  become infected.  Understand too that rabies is not stagnant it can be carried across borders. Surin has the highest incidence. It is also located in a cross border disease reservoir. Without  a near 100% vaccination rate in Surin, there will always be hot pockets of  infection.

 

Actually, the results in Thailand are still excellent. In fact they are still statitistically at the top of the performance chart. Singapore and Malaysia are rabies free. 17 or so cases of rabies in total, while tragic for the victims, is not really a crisis within the general population. You  know what a crisis is? The number of people dying in car crashes every day, and the number is greater in one day than the annual total of Thailand's rabies deaths. Some perspective is called for.

 

Hysterical claims such as yours are why some views are dismissed with a  condescending guffaw. The authorities have not put  dog lives before human lives. They do however, have limited budgets. A few rabies deaths , while unfortunate cannot be allowed to consume large amounts of available funds when there are thousands dying from other preventable infectious diseases such as parasites, TB, HIV and pediatric diarrhea. Are you aware that this week more children will die of diarrhea related rotavirus infection, than will have died of rabies in the past 3 years? Again, the word perspective is appropriate for this matter. The rabies outbreak is manageable and not a crisis at this point, so cool it, and worry more about the person coughing next to you as that person is more likely to be infected with incurable TB than you are of being infected  with rabies.

 

The vaccine you used in Canada was most likely the same one I was using when I was in the field, the Sanofi Pasteur   Imovax vaccine. It is an amazing creation. The master strain is sourced from the Wistar Institute, in the USA. It it is grown  in human tissue. The virus is then harvested from infected human diploid cells,  concentrated and is inactivated and freeze dried. It is then reconstituted when needed. It has an unparalleled  success record.

Most people are unaware but  the MRC-5 cell strain used for the vaccine started with fetal lung cells from an aborted fetus. Dr. Hayflick was the brilliant scientist who discovered that vaccines were more effective when derived from  human cells.

The reason why some of the other rabies vaccines do not work as effectively are because they are derived from chicken or duck embryo sources.  The USA, Canada and Europe all use the human cell sourced vaccine.

 

I bet no one here was aware that the most effective vaccines are derived from the cell tissue of two aborted fetuses, the cells of which  have been on a reproduction spurt for some time. 

      geriactrickid.....yes... it was Sanofi Pasteur IMOVAX I got in Canada.  Three shots required.  I got the Rabies vaccine shots in 2012 before my first trip to southeast Asia in 2013... (along with lots of other vaccination shots... Hep A & B and Japanese Encephalitis,Typhoid, and others...including Dukoral...which I highly recommend.)  

   My record shows first IMOVAX shot I received was February 21, 2012...second shot February 28, 2012, and third shot I got March 27, 2012.  

   I had my titers checked for Rabies not long ago and they are still at a very high effective level in 2018...no booster required.....   IMOVAX must be effective for a great many years.   Like you said... an amazing creation..   I'm glad I got it..     Take care geriatrickid..

[Catoni]

On 8/15/2018 at 12:15 PM, Myran said:

Then why aren't all buddhist Thais vegetarians?

      As a Theravadan Buddhist, you are not to eat meat from an animal specially killed for you personally.  Lots of Buddhists, including many Mahayanan Buddhists,   eat meat...  especially in countries like Nepal and Tibet..  

    There is no Theravadan rule to not eat meat all together...    Choosing vegetarianism is a personal choice. 

   Lord Buddha did not forbid the eating of meat.   You can be a good practitioner of the Dhamma Vinaya and still eat meat. 

[Cereal]

On 8/15/2018 at 7:55 AM, bsdthai said:

Bad Vaccines? Corruption?......

 

The only real problem here is the rapid dogs roaming around. Its the only way to get a grip on this disease but commonsense isnt a thai trait. Just blame others.

And this is why you can't stop this problem. The dogs are just too dang rapid. You can't catch 'em.

[bheard]

87.33 % of rabies infected animals are dogs. That will then translate into mostly stray dogs. That´s just another shiny button on the shirt for pro-shooting down the whole bunch of them.

They should all be eliminated of course, not just 87.33% of them. 87.33. Brings to mind the height of Doi Inthanon - the height of which is claimed on a carved wooden sign at the summit to an accuracy of one tenth of a millimetre . . .

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