Girl, 3, suffocates in Pattani school van

[mok199]

6 minutes ago, Bangkok Barry said:

 

Even easier just to LOOK in the vehicle. That's not too difficult. Unless you're Thai, it seems.

after reading about this ,my wife told me this has happened many time in the past ,in the same scenerio...tragic just tragic...

[Aforek]

53 minutes ago, Aupee said:

No second one in the last two months. A teacher picked up a child took her to school and forgot her until she unlocked the car to go home in the afternoon

Right, one or two months ago , but happened already in other countries 

Edited August 17, 2018 by Aforek

[colinneil]

I have already posted my thoughts regarding the driver, but the childs teacher is also to blame.

When checking what children are present, why not ask where the little girl was?

Other children in the van, why did nobody ask them where the little girl was?

 

I posted on here about 3 months ago about what happened at my wifes school when a small boy went missing.

My wife as director organized teachers and pupils to look for him.

My wife went straight to the boys home to notify his parents, boys grandmother said he is not missing, his father has just taken him to Bangkok, the father took the boy from school without telling anybody.

 

My point is all schools have a duty of care, and when a young child is unaccounted for teachers should take time to find out where the child is.

[aussiee]

Why can't these vans be fitted with an air vent somewhere?

How can they be so airtight?

Many people camp in similar vans - they are not dieing

I don't get it!

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, peperobi said:

The sense of responsibility is absolutely missing.

Indeed... I think it’s in hiding with other suspects, such as accountability and consequence.

 

 

[neeray]

10 hours ago, chickenslegs said:

Quite obviously, the van driver is at fault, but not solely.

 

If a child is missing when the teacher takes roll call, surely the teacher/school admin should investigate. Just a phone call to the parents would have averted this tragedy.

 

We send our grandaughter to school every day in the minibus. We place our trust in the drivers and teachers to keep her safe. I am absolutely sickened to read (again and again) about these completely avoidable tragedies.

My sentiments exactly. In this day and age of mobile phones, I am surprised that the system you describe was not in place. My God, 3 years old. So sad.

[whaleboneman]

15 minutes ago, aussiee said:

Why can't these vans be fitted with an air vent somewhere?

How can they be so airtight?

Many people camp in similar vans - they are not dieing

I don't get it!

Air vent won't help. Windows closed in Thai heat the temperature in the van will just keep rising. People camping in vans don't sleep in them in the daytime with all windows closed or they would die too.

 

[terminatorchiangmai]

Teachers should call the parents  if a child not comes to school!

If they confirm the child is sick and home , al is good.

If they say she should be at school , start searching.

How dificult can that be ?

 

R.I.P. litle one.

Edited August 17, 2018 by terminatorchiangmai

[poohy]

14 minutes ago, terminatorchiangmai said:

Teachers should call the parents  if a child not comes to school!

If they confirm the child is sick and home , al is good.

If they say she should be at school , start searching.

How dificult can that be ?

 

R.I.P. litle one.

Common sense

responsibility,

ability to think out of the box,

complete self centeredness 

caring for others outside immediate family 

 

Simply too difficult,Its going to take  a long time if ever to change

[mike324]

a simple check list and parents signature when dropping of kids would have prevented this tragedy...but guess its a small school and most schools are not well organize

[Mises]

I doubt the poor child suffocated, there would be enough air in the van for more than 12 hours. More likely the high temperature was the issue.

[sathuluv]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

Police believe the girl was asleep while the other children got out of the van and the driver did not check as his wife normally saw them off.

So blame wife then.....

[fantom]

Given the children's ages there should have been a chaperone on the bus / van too.  Also the lack of duty of care by the school after arrival well pointed out by other posters.

[wvavin]

The peoples' brains in this country can kill peoples too!

[300sd]

Since when do 3 year old's go to school? They should never be in a school bus at that age, especially unsupervised!

 

The job of a school bus driver is not complete until the bus is checked for sleepers after each run!

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, fantom said:

Given the children's ages there should have been a chaperone on the bus / van too.  Also the lack of duty of care by the school after arrival well pointed out by other posters.

There was normally a chaperone, it was the drivers wife who is a teacher at the school but for some reason she was not on the bus that morning. There has been several good observations on here about why did the other children on the bus not wake the child? why does the school not have someone to meet each bus of a morning to ensure that this type of thing does not happen. This type of thing does not only happen here in Thailand but it also happens in some of the educated 1st class western countries. As a member of a rescue squad we used to average at least 1 call every 2 weeks to shopping centre carparks where parents (mainly mothers) locked their sleeping babies in the car while they went in shopping because it was only going to take a couple of minutes, but then they remember there is something else they need and then the shopping has extended out to about an hour while the inside temperature of their car climbs up into the 60-70 degrees with the child slowly cooking until some passerby notices the child and calls us. I am talking about the area 50 kilometres north of Sydney in Australia. It is humans that will not learn, not just Thais.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

15 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

There was normally a chaperone, it was the drivers wife who is a teacher at the school but for some reason she was not on the bus that morning. There has been several good observations on here about why did the other children on the bus not wake the child? why does the school not have someone to meet each bus of a morning to ensure that this type of thing does not happen. This type of thing does not only happen here in Thailand but it also happens in some of the educated 1st class western countries. As a member of a rescue squad we used to average at least 1 call every 2 weeks to shopping centre carparks where parents (mainly mothers) locked their sleeping babies in the car while they went in shopping because it was only going to take a couple of minutes, but then they remember there is something else they need and then the shopping has extended out to about an hour while the inside temperature of their car climbs up into the 60-70 degrees with the child slowly cooking until some passerby notices the child and calls us. I am talking about the area 50 kilometres north of Sydney in Australia. It is humans that will not learn, not just Thais.

You make a good point, and of course there are irresponsible people in every walk of life and every country on earth, it is unfair to single Thailand out - up to a point - as it does seem that there are a lot more deaths in Thailand from this exact kind of incompetence / irresponsibility than there are in the UK or the rest of the west. I can remember one quite famous case where the same thing happened in the UK (where the temperature is not usually going to be an issue, but suffocation would remain one) but since living in Thailand I can recall at least 7/8 incidences reported in as many years, less in fact & they're just the ones that make it into the papers and that I have read about.

 

I know it's worth trying to remain impartial and fair about the 'Thai' aspect of it, and I would totally agree if it wasn't for the fact that there is such a generally low level of care or attention to detail and the seemingly total lack of ability to learn from mistakes and impose some kind of procedure to ensure such things don't reoccur. It isn't that these things don't happen elsewhere, they of course do, but I find it extremely hard to believe that the same mistakes would be repeated so often in my country or yours - especially by a liable 3rd party charged with the care of children - like a school or related service - that would inevitably get destroyed legally for such negligence. When these terrible incidences / mistakes are so often repeated here, you really have to ask why that is.

Edited August 17, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[anon789561]

well i would have thought the school teachers would inform the office staff which kids didn't turn up for school and call their parents especially if they hadn't been informed of any absence prior to the school day. i thought that would be mandatory especially for kids that young. sad events and part of me feels sorry for the person that is held to blame. a few weeks ago in the UK they had a woman who forgot to drop her kid off to school and went into work with the kid still in the car. didn't even drop the kid off. it's been hot there and the kid older, 5/6 i think died. how does the mother deal with that. can't put it all on somchai IMO

[ThaiFelix]

22 hours ago, Denim said:

Mini vans should be banned from providing this service.

They should be banned from providing any service at all in this country because they have proved themselves dangerous or incompetent in whatever they are involved in  (Oh God, I must have lived here too long, I'm blaming the van??!!)

 

Rip little one.

[Russell17au]

1 hour ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

You make a good point, and of course there are irresponsible people in every walk of life and every country on earth, it is unfair to single Thailand out - up to a point - as it does seem that there are a lot more deaths in Thailand from this exact kind of incompetence / irresponsibility than there are in the UK or the rest of the west. I remember one case where the same thing happened in the UK (where the temperature is not usually going to be an issue, but suffocation would remain one) but since living in Thailand I can recall at least 7/8 incidences reported, and they're just the ones that make it into the papers and that I have read about.

 

I know it's worth being impartial and fair about the 'Thai' aspect of it, and I would totally agree if it wasn't for the fact that there is such a generally low level of care or attention to detail and the seemingly total lack of ability to learn from mistakes and impose some kind of procedure to ensure such things don't reoccur. It isn't that these things don't happen elsewhere, they of course do, but I find it extremely hard to believe that the same mistakes would be repeated in my country or yours - especially by a liable 3rd party like a school that would inevitably get destroyed legally for such negligence. 

You find it hard to believe that the same mistakes are repeated in your country or mine. Well here is a section of a report from Kidsafe Victoria (www.kidsafevic.com.au/road-safety/hot-cars) which is a small southern state of Australia:

Every year in Australia, over 5,000 children are rescued after being left unattended in a car.

Between 1st September 2016 and 31st August 2017, Ambulance Victoria responded to 1,696 callouts for people locked in cars across Victoria, with the vast majority being cases involving toddlers and babies.

So people do not learn by others mistakes and all these are publicised.

Over 5,000 rescued in Australia, how many in rescued Thailand?

Remember this man had a routine of everyday he would drive the bus to the school with his wife who would check the children but this day his wife was not there but he still kept to his routine. How many of you TVF experts have a routine that you work to and what happens if you have to change that routine suddenly? I believe that not one of you would have done any different than this driver if it was your routine. It is hard for humans to suddenly change their routine. How many of you get in your car and start it and drive out without checking to see if you have a flat tyre or that you have enough brake fluid in the reservoir because you could do a brake cylinder and lose your brake fluid overnight so you end up with no brakes because it is not your routine to do these things so you do not do them. Do not throw it all onto the driver.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

Again, you make some fair points, but it sounds dangerously like you're acting as an apologist to me too. Personal responsibility is something that is downplayed and undervalued in today's world, not just in Thailand, but across the western world so often also. And look, I never claimed to be an expert on any topic here and since you've provided me with some pretty crazy stats (I've no way of knowing whether or not they're correct tbf) that seem to contradict what I was propounding I will rephrase - perhaps I'm giving too much credit to the Aussies in terms of personal responsibility ? ?

The only issue I would have with the stats you have given is that (I'm assuming, please correct me if I'm wrong) the relevant agencies don't know how long the parent/adult had been away from the vehicle in every specific case and there is probably no way of knowing how soon they would have come back and therefore how many fatalities would have been avoided by the agents' intervention. I am really not trying to denigrate good work done by the people you're referencing, but it is very difficult to know how many of the cases would have the same outcome as this tragic case has. That perhaps, is besides the point though, the issue you raise is that adults left children unattended for long enough to cause concern, so I take your point, there.

 

Where I do think you're completely wrong is in saying that we're ALL robotic drones who go about our days the exact same way everyday and are unable to handle any kind of small shift from our routine as this guy clearly couldn't, that's insulting and a massive assumption on your behalf. This guy had a duty of care (as did his wife) to each child, end of story mate. It's hardly an upheaval or beyond a normal person's cognitive ability to give the van a quick once-over check, or complete a head count of the children, as is (or at least should be) standard - especially as his wife wasn't there to do it as normal, so how you think his culpability can be reduced because 'it's not an exact integrated part of the guys morning ritual' is beyond me, especially when it's such a paltry task to carry out and he is after all THE BUS DRIVER!!! Who's remit does it fall under if not his? And finally, I never said that all the blame should be apportioned to him, I don't believe it's the case, the teachers / admin staff at the school should shoulder some of the blame, but clearly less than the driver should. As I said in my comment earlier, his real punishment will be having the child's death on his conscience - regardless of what punitive sentence he receives and for that I really empathise with and pity him, because I am sure this wasn't a deliberate act, but on the other hand - if this was my child or yours in question, we'd both dismiss with said pity pretty quickly I tend to think, don't you?

Edited August 17, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Russell17au]

17 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Again, you make some fair points, but it sounds dangerously like you're acting as an apologist to me too. Personal responsibility is something that is downplayed and undervalued in today's world, not just in Thailand, but across the western world so often also. And look, I never claimed to be an expert on any topic here and since you've provided me with some pretty crazy stats (I've no way of knowing whether or not they're correct tbf) that seem to contradict what I was propounding I will rephrase - perhaps I'm giving too much credit to the Aussies in terms of personal responsibility ? ?

The only issue I would have with the stats you have given is that (I'm assuming, again please correct me if I'm wrong) the relevant agencies don't know how long the parent/adult had been away from the vehicle in every specific case and there is probably no way of knowing how soon they would have come back and therefore how many fatalities would have been avoided by the agents' intervention. I am really not trying to denigrate good work done by the people you're referencing, but it is very difficult to know how many of the cases would have the same outcome as this tragic case has. That perhaps, is besides the point though, the issue you raise is that adults left children unattended for long enough to cause concern, so I take your point, there.

 

Where I do think you're completely wrong is in saying that we're ALL robotic drones who go about our days the exact same way everyday and are unable to handle any kind of small shift from our routine as this guy clearly couldn't, that's insulting and a massive assumption on your behalf. This guy had a duty of care (as did his wife) to each child, end of story mate. It's hardly an upheaval or beyond a normal person's cognitive ability to give the van a quick once-over check, or complete a head count of the children, as is (or at least should be) standard - especially as his wife wasn't there to do it as normal, so how you think his culpability can be reduced because 'it's not an exact integrated part of the guys morning ritual' is beyond me, especially when it's such a paltry task to carry out and he is after all THE BUS DRIVER!!! And finally, I never said that all the blame should be apportioned to him, I don't believe it's the case, the teachers / admin staff at the school should shoulder some of the blame, but clearly less than the driver should. As I said in my comment earlier, his real punishment will be having the child's death on his conscience - regardless of what punitive sentence he receives and for that I really empathise with and pity him, because I am sure this wasn't a deliberate act, but on the other hand - if this was my child or yours in question, we'd both dismiss with said pity pretty quickly I tend to think, don't you?

This is something from CNN, when you read this you might understand a bit more of what I am talking about when I say "change of routine".

"Earlier this year, in May, a 1-year-old girl died in Tennessee after her father forgot to drop her off at her daycare before heading out of town on a business trip. He parked his car in the family's driveway with the daughter still in it, and then used a ride share service to depart for the trip. This sort of situation -- where a parent or guardian forgets a child because of a lapse in temporal memory and a disrupted routine, is very common."

The average death rate for children locked in cars in the US since 1998 is 37 per year.

So Thailand and this driver is no different to many other drivers in other countries but like you said he has to live with it. Why did the school not have another teacher meet the bus when it arrived instead of leaving 3 year olds to roam around unattended, that is the main issue here I believe.

[Cake Monster]

These sad and tragic incidents of this nature, happen all too often in Thailand.

The authorities need to start handing down lengthy jail terms for those responsible, to send a message to those that are supposed to be caring for the children.

Sleep with the Angels little baby.

 

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

21 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

This is something from CNN, when you read this you might understand a bit more of what I am talking about when I say "change of routine".

"Earlier this year, in May, a 1-year-old girl died in Tennessee after her father forgot to drop her off at her daycare before heading out of town on a business trip. He parked his car in the family's driveway with the daughter still in it, and then used a ride share service to depart for the trip. This sort of situation -- where a parent or guardian forgets a child because of a lapse in temporal memory and a disrupted routine, is very common."

The average death rate for children locked in cars in the US since 1998 is 37 per year.

So Thailand and this driver is no different to many other drivers in other countries but like you said he has to live with it. Why did the school not have another teacher meet the bus when it arrived instead of leaving 3 year olds to roam around unattended, that is the main issue here I believe.

Of course, it could happen to anyone on a bad day, I suppose. I'm not sure I would ever make such a fundamental mistake as this, however, and I still find it hard to believe that as many people - as you and these sources are indicating - totally overlook their own child's or charge's whereabouts, but if you go on the statistical evidence, which I wouldn't refute, it seems so. A cursory look shows me that there is not much if any data on the same issue in Thailand, but if the number is akin (proportionally speaking) to the overall road casualties or preventable deaths figure in Thailand (one of if not the highest, pro-rata, in the world) then it would be shocking and saddening, but perhaps unsurprising. I won't make that assumption, but the evidence, (and I do not just mean similar statistics) would indicate so. The cases I and other posters have referenced are, after all, just the ones that are documented , reported and subsequently publicised.  I still think the driver has to have the majority of the blame laid squarely at his door, and although I find this case both very upsetting and outrageous I am not attempting to attack the man personally. As I said he will be serving a life-sentence (assuming he has a proper conscience) for the consequences of his mistake. Perhaps the more pertinent question is - what can be done to ensure that not one more young life is lost in similar circumstances?  

Edited August 17, 2018 by CanterbrigianBangkoker

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

These sad and tragic incidents of this nature, happen all too often in Thailand.

The authorities need to start handing down lengthy jail terms for those responsible, to send a message to those that are supposed to be caring for the children.

Sleep with the Angels little baby.

 

It does not matter what the authorities do, they just cannot seem to be able to get the message through to the people and I am not only talking about Thailand. The figures for the US are disgusting and the same in Australia and both these countries have severe penalties for these offenses but people still leave children in cars in locked cars.

[Russell17au]

6 minutes ago, CanterbrigianBangkoker said:

Of course, it could happen to anyone on a bad day, I suppose. I'm not sure I would ever make such a fundamental mistake as this, however, and I still find it hard to believe that as many people - as you and these sources are indicating - totally overlook or forget about their own child's whereabouts, but if you go on the statistical evidence, which I wouldn't refute, it seems so. A cursory look shows me that there is not much if any data on the same issue in Thailand, but if the number is akin (proportionally speaking) to the overall road casualties or preventable deaths figure in Thailand (one of if not the highest, pro-rata, in the world) then it would be shocking and saddening, I won't make that assumption, but the evidence, (and I do not just similar statistics) would indicate so. The cases I and other posters have referenced are, after all, just the ones that are documented , reported and subsequently publicised.  I still think the driver has to have the majority of the blame laid squarely at his door, and although I find this case both very upsetting and outrageous I am not attempting to attack the man personally. As I said he will be serving a life-sentence (assuming he has a proper conscience) for the consequences of his mistake. Perhaps the more pertinent question is - what can be done to ensure that not one more young life is lost in similar circumstances?  

There is a simple solution but it never works and that is to change peoples attitude towards these things. I have quoted statistics from the US and Australia which both these countries have very severe penalties and it is always publicised but it still happens because it is impossible to get people to change their attitudes and say to themselves this could happen to me instead of the normal attitude of this wont happen to me, I will do what I want.

And there lies the problem. Attitude

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

1 minute ago, Russell17au said:

There is a simple solution but it never works and that is to change peoples attitude towards these things. I have quoted statistics from the US and Australia which both these countries have very severe penalties and it is always publicised but it still happens because it is impossible to get people to change their attitudes and say to themselves this could happen to me instead of the normal attitude of this wont happen to me, I will do what I want.

And there lies the problem. Attitude

Yep, agreed on that point.

[Crustyhk]

BS BS BS BS

 

These vans have vents in them to allow airflow. They also vent via the heater unit. If they didn't people around the world would be suffocating while sleeping in them on a daily basis. 

Unfortunately being locked in a car in Thai heat will cause heat stroke very quickly. 

 

RIP you poor little thing

[richard_smith237]

3 hours ago, Crustyhk said:

BS BS BS BS

 

These vans have vents in them to allow airflow. They also vent via the heater unit. If they didn't people around the world would be suffocating while sleeping in them on a daily basis. 

Unfortunately being locked in a car in Thai heat will cause heat stroke very quickly. 

 

RIP you poor little thing

 

Agreed... She didn't suffocate...its pretty obvious that the report meant that She died of heat stress... Awful.. 

 

 

 

[Torrens54]

On 8/16/2018 at 3:09 PM, KhunBENQ said:

Hard to keep words under control...

The girl must have died a terrible way.

 

Negligent homicide, in Germany up to 5 years imprisonment.

 

Thailand: a wai and pay for the funeral?

 

Second such case over the years read in the forum.

Lock the Lazy lout up for 20 years.