UK Visit Visa Refusal for Nonsensical Reasons

[bobrussell]

Sadly every time someone gives up the poor quality of some decisions go unquestioned. 

Any applicant living with someone British 'settled' in Thailand should not really have much of a problem with a visit visa. It is, in itself a pretty good reason to return.

I have no doubt that some decisions are distinctly dodgy. My wifes best friend was refused a visit visa partly on the grounds that she might have to work to pay for the visit. Not likely as her husband is a multi-millionaire living in Switzerland (as does she!). They are 'boycotting' the UK now and I suspect this has reduced Harrod's income!

It was a bad move removing ECO's from any real form of accountability. 

[rasg]

On 8/21/2018 at 11:38 AM, mnop said:

Is it possible to ask VFS to send you an electronic copy of all the documents they submitted? It just dawned on me that while they were scanning my documents, all the papers went flying from the machine about halfway through the pile (this was in the first week they implemented in the new scanning system...). That might explain a lot. 

So there is a possibility that the visa wasn't refused for "nonsensical reasons"? Maybe the ECO didn’t have all of the information you supplied?

 

Just playing Devil's advocate here. So many complain that their visa was refused for spurious reasons or blame the system when they put a poor application together and don't fulfill the requirements . Another side of the coin is that VFS didn’t supply all of the info to UKVI that was supplied to them.

 

I'm happy that the scanning service has been suspended. I don't think that VFS would take as much care scanning and putting the info together that I did when I put my wife's applications together. No doubt that VFS had a scanner that scanned a stack of copies at the same time and it's dead easy for sheets to be missed.

[rasg]

10 minutes ago, Ipswich lad said:

OK so I posted last night how I complained to London and got it overturned you need to state all the points of refusal and explain why they was wrong here is the address I sent mine too and got the decision reversed you can also check my post on this sub forum of the letter i sent. Good luck buddy

That's really good news.

 

Can you provide a link to the letter you wrote please? Or post it here.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2018 by rasg

[mnop]

On 8/22/2018 at 6:50 PM, rasg said:

So there is a possibility that the visa wasn't refused for "nonsensical reasons"? Maybe the ECO didn’t have all of the information you supplied?

 

 

Yes you are right, I might have spoken too much out of emotion at the time of posting. However, there were several other factors that just made the whole thing look shoddy: 1) The decision was made on the very same day the case was re-escalated again, 2) VFS texted me to pick up my passport hours before I received an email from the Caseworking office in ND, and a day before a formal UKVI email, leading me to believe that this possibly wasn't checked by an ECM as is the standard process, 3) spelling and grammatical errors aside, the letter contradicted itself several times (e.g. saying I didn't meet certain appendices at the start but saying it was refused for other appendices at the end) and just didn't make any sense overall. I understand that ECOs are referred to templates to use for certain paragraphs, so this just looks like a ridiculous copy & paste letter, and 4) If they wanted to refuse me for a simple reason as what my bank statements had shown, would it really have taken them 37 working days to come to this conclusion? 

 

 

Quote

I'm happy that the scanning service has been suspended. I don't think that VFS would take as much care scanning and putting the info together that I did when I put my wife's applications together. No doubt that VFS had a scanner that scanned a stack of copies at the same time and it's dead easy for sheets to be missed.

 

Wait... what? The new scanning system implemented in June has been suspended? Also, I do believe it's highly unlikely for pages in a stack to be missed in an automatic document feeder. 

Edited August 24, 2018 by mnop

[mnop]

On 8/22/2018 at 6:48 PM, Ipswich lad said:

OK so I posted last night how I complained to London and got it overturned you need to state all the points of refusal and explain why they was wrong here is the address I sent mine too and got the decision reversed you can also check my post on this sub forum of the letter i sent. Good luck buddy

 

Thanks for letting me know! I actually did send off a reconsideration request several days ago and it seems to have reached the right department. Anyone who thinks there is nothing that can be done would be well-advised to read through this document: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/730629/reconsiderations-v10.0.pdf. I sent off a succinct yet strongly-worded letter that clearly outlined the relevant section of visitor rules, quoted the refusal letter and explained its inaccuracy in terms of my application evidence. Patience muscles are back in training... 

 

@Ipswich lad, may I ask how long it took for them to respond/reverse the decision? 

Edited August 24, 2018 by mnop

[rasg]

32 minutes ago, mnop said:

Wait... what? The new scanning system implemented in June has been suspended? Also, I do believe it's highly unlikely for pages in a stack to be missed in an automatic document feeder. 

Maybe I am wrong on that as visit visas are now decided in Delhi. I am probably mixing visit visas up with settlement visas. I'm very pleased that my wife has finished with visit visas.

[CeeGee]

Based on experience of scanning medical records for many years,missing sheets are a common problem,static,pages slightly bent,damp are a few of the common issues which will cause pages to stick together.A good scanner should have a counter which will confirm the number of pages scanned(of course you need to know the number of pages put in the machine)I have been told that the VFS scanner does not have a built in scanner but This has not been confirmed

[darren1971]

My girlfriend is sat in vfs Trendy shambles now at 3pm waiting for her 1pm appointment, based on evidence this 'process' is only going one way..... shambolic

[darren1971]

On 8/21/2018 at 2:31 AM, BKKBike09 said:

This all sounds like it should be fine. However, two months is a fairly long time to be visiting. Absolutely no reason why you shouldn't be entitled to visit for that period of time, but I suspect that this may automatically mean that your application is subject to closer scrutiny. Would you consider visiting for a shorter period, say 3-4 weeks? You say you've been working for your current employer for a year; presumably that's a legal job, ie you have a work permit, and you provided a copy of that with your application. If however you're working freelance, or on an overseas-issued contract and being paid offshore, that may be regarded differently because it would suggest that you have no specific need to return to Thailand. "I earn enough, and have enough in savings, to correspond to my stated planned expenses" - with respect, your interpretation of "enough" may differ from that of the ECO. If you earn 250,000 baht a month and have 500,000 baht demonstrably accumulated in savings, that is different from earning 75,000 baht a month and having 200,000 in savings. Please don't take offence - I'm simply playing devil's advocate here in the absence of hard data. No-one wants a refusal on file but seeing as how you've been refused, I don't see you have much to lose by reapplying. In fact you have much to gain. 

 

On 8/22/2018 at 10:21 AM, trigpoint said:

we gave up,  decided not to  reapply as our circumstances did not change, we still live together in Thailand and I go back to the UK every year on my own and return. my wife was so angry at being called a liar about making a fraudulant application for a visitor visa, when they said it was her sole intention to go and work in the UK and not return to Thailand. 

I would complain, only takes a letter. I understand how your wife feels, my girlfriend feels the same.

[darren1971]

On 8/24/2018 at 9:17 AM, mnop said:

 

Yes you are right, I might have spoken too much out of emotion at the time of posting. However, there were several other factors that just made the whole thing look shoddy: 1) The decision was made on the very same day the case was re-escalated again, 2) VFS texted me to pick up my passport hours before I received an email from the Caseworking office in ND, and a day before a formal UKVI email, leading me to believe that this possibly wasn't checked by an ECM as is the standard process, 3) spelling and grammatical errors aside, the letter contradicted itself several times (e.g. saying I didn't meet certain appendices at the start but saying it was refused for other appendices at the end) and just didn't make any sense overall. I understand that ECOs are referred to templates to use for certain paragraphs, so this just looks like a ridiculous copy & paste letter, and 4) If they wanted to refuse me for a simple reason as what my bank statements had shown, would it really have taken them 37 working days to come to this conclusion? 

 

 

 

 

Wait... what? The new scanning system implemented in June has been suspended? Also, I do believe it's highly unlikely for pages in a stack to be missed in an automatic document feeder. 

still scanning today, a lot of very bad information on here.

[darren1971]

On 8/20/2018 at 3:02 PM, bobrussell said:

Unless things have changed you can ask for a review of the decision.

https://www.gov.uk/ask-for-a-visa-administrative-review

 

This is worth doing if you have provided information and you believe the ECO has made a mistake.

If you provided the information then this s worth a try.

 

I have not seen anyone that appears to be saying the system is OK.

In principle it probably is but it is almost completely unaccountable. The Chief Inspector of Borders does not seem to believe it is OK. It is probably fine much of the time but wrong too much of the time. I do wonder if they allow too many dodgy ones through. 

 

Spelling and grammatical errors do nothing to inspire confidence and I would suggest a formal complaint once you have sorted your visa.

 

Assuming what you have said is accurate (not accusing you of anything but frustration and anger can cloud minds) then I would reapply and make it clear where you believe the ECO missed things. Don't get aggressive as the next ECO will probably not be the same one and it was not them at fault. Don't get backs up until you have got what you want.

 

The system does not stink in my opinion but having experienced the complaints process a number of times, the unaccountably of the individual ECO is where the faults generally lie.

not sure you can review visit visa application?

[rasg]

Yes you can.

[theoldgit]

not sure you can review visit visa application?

No, you can’t ask for an Administrative Review for a Visit Visa, but you can lodge a complaint if you believe that the wrong procedures were used or evidence supplied wasn’t considered, and then a similar process kicks in.

[rasg]

My bad. I thought it was called an Administrative Review. It was a toss up between an appeal and an Administrative Review and it is a complaint.?

[theoldgit]

16 hours ago, rasg said:

My bad. I thought it was called an Administrative Review. It was a toss up between an appeal and an Administrative Review and it is a complaint.

There is such a thing as an Administrative Review but, for reasons best known to themselves, the UKVI don’t allow you to request one for a visit visa refusal, you can make a complaint if you think the application was improperly assessed. They then can review the decision administratively. [emoji41]

 

[brewsterbudgen]

17 hours ago, theoldgit said:

There is such a thing as an Administrative Review but, for reasons best known to themselves, the UKVI don’t allow you to request one for a visit visa refusal, you can make a complaint if you think the application was improperly assessed. They then can review the decision administratively.

 

Complaints can be dealt with quickly.  Somewhere on this Forum is the story of how my then girlfriend received incorrect advice at VFS, resulting in her having to complete a new application for a different type of visa in the offices - and me having to pay for it, despite my strong belief that their advice was wrong.

 

The next day I complained through the complaint section on the website and within a few days I received an apology.  A month or so later, my fee was refunded.

[mnop]

They finally agreed to reconsider it on the basis of all the documents not being considered.

[Rob180]

Personally I think you should go to a reputable Visa Agent, there's only 1 in Thailand I know of recommended by the UK Govt to give immigration advice. They did my wife's Spouse Visa application in 2014, there were zero problems and it was granted in a few weeks without even 1 query. I won't name them here because not sure if it's encouraged by the Forum, but pm me if you want to know who they are.

[rasg]

39 minutes ago, Rob180 said:

Personally I think you should go to a reputable Visa Agent, there's only 1 in Thailand I know of recommended by the UK Govt to give immigration advice. They did my wife's Spouse Visa application in 2014, there were zero problems and it was granted in a few weeks without even 1 query. I won't name them here because not sure if it's encouraged by the Forum, but pm me if you want to know who they are.

Not sure why anybody would do that unless they have money to burn. If you submit a well laid out application and fulfill the criteria for the visa you are applying for a visa agent is totally unnecessary. Because you have to gather and supply all of the information you end up doing 90% of the work anyway.

 

On 8/21/2018 at 11:38 AM, mnop said:

Is it possible to ask VFS to send you an electronic copy of all the documents they submitted? It just dawned on me that while they were scanning my documents, all the papers went flying from the machine about halfway through the pile (this was in the first week they implemented in the new scanning system...). That might explain a lot. 

On 9/5/2018 at 9:36 AM, mnop said:

They finally agreed to reconsider it on the basis of all the documents not being considered.

Probably because of all your documents not being scanned when they flew everywhere?

[bobrussell]

The UK government do not recommend anyone to give immigration advice.

In the UK advisors are regulated by the OISC (or a qualified solicitor) but there is no such regulation in Thailand. The agent referred is regulated in the UK so would probably be a good place to start.