Transferwise, OFX.com or withdrawing via Visa Debit Card

[bbi1]

I've seen many people here highly recommend Transferwise as the best, which also seems to be recommended by ING Bank also in some parts of the world. In Australia ING recommends OFX.com for international transfers. I've checked out these sites and have no idea why peeps here recommend them so highly:

 

1. Transferwise - AUD $1,000 gets you 23,647.92 baht (TransferWise fee 0.6% of the amount that's converted + $ 4.50 AUD)

2. OFX.com - AUD $1,000 gets you 23,780.15 baht ($15 fee, if transferring more than $10k then no fees)

3. Visa's Exchange Rate - 23,555 Thai Baht = $1,000.098190 Australian Dollar - https://usa.visa.com/support/consumer/travel-support/exchange-rate-calculator.html/?amount=23555&fee=0.0&exchangedate=08%2F25%2F2018&fromCurr=AUD&toCurr=THB&submitButton=Calculate+exchange+rate

 

For me it seems that Visa's exchange rate is low as you get the least amount of baht. If using an ATM you would also get charged between 200-220baht ATM fee, plus $2.50 bank fee in your home country, basically about $11 in fees.

 

Transferwise is the 2nd best, but OFX.com seems to be the winner for the best rate out of the three. No idea why I've never seem OFX.com mentioned here but Transferwise has been many times. Does anyone know if there's any other places out there that provides better rates than this?

 

Edited August 25, 2018 by bbi1

[Pib]

The mistake in your analysis above is your are quoting exchange rate from OFX's public website which only reflects FX market rates....it does NOT reflect the rate you will actually get once opening an OFX account...it does not reflect their "customer" rate which will be lower.   See circled note below from their public website...see 1st snapshot. 

 

 OFX is one of these money exchange services who will not give your their actual rates unless you ask for a quote or open an account.

 

I have an OFX account and can tell you their customer rate for USD to THB ranges from approx 1.4% lower that FX market rate for a BIG transfer and around 2.1% lower.   I wanted to give you an example of their actual customer rate for AUD-THB but since the FX market is closed I can't get a rate....see 2nd snapshot below from their website while I'm logged onto my account....will try to remember to look on Monday.  And I've never initiated a transfer with them after opening my account because their customers rates are not that good.

 

And the reason ING recommends OFX is because ING and OFX have formed a business relationship.

 

Snapshot 1:  Below are NOT the OFX rates you will get...below is only FX market rates...you can only see OFX customer rates once opening an account with them.

 

 

2nd Snapshot when I tried to get a AUD-THB customer rate.  Unless the FX markets are open you can't get any or accurate "customer rates" from OFX.   However, with Transferwise you can get rates on your account 24/7.

Edited August 25, 2018 by Pib

[AtoZ]

You are mistaken

 

1) You can't compare rates during weekend - as noted by the user above

 

2) You can't really compare rates of Transferwise or OFX unless you actually use them - the rates are indicative even when you send them the money. They request extra to cover fluctuations until the transaction is settled. Then they refund what is left

 

If I check my Transferwise transactions in the past

 

A

Transferwise

1045.5 AUD -> 25,000 THB

Visa would be on the same day

1,040.6 AUD -> 25,000 THB

 

B

Transferwise

1011.43 AUD -> 24,000 THB

Visa would be on the same day

1,004.4 AUD -> 24,000 THB

 

Visa/Mastercard is always cheaper than any other alternatives, then it depends on possible atm/bank fees.

 

[bbi1]

3 hours ago, Pib said:

OFX is one of these money exchange services who will not give your their actual rates unless you ask for a quote or open an account.

 

I have an OFX account and can tell you their customer rate for USD to THB ranges from approx 1.4% lower that FX market rate for a BIG transfer and around 2.1% lower.   I wanted to give you an example of their actual customer rate for AUD-THB but since the FX market is closed I can't get a rate....see 2nd snapshot below from their website while I'm logged onto my account....will try to remember to look on Monday.  And I've never initiated a transfer with them after opening my account because their customers rates are not that good.

 

And the reason ING recommends OFX is because ING and OFX have formed a business relationship.

Thanks for both your comments. Would be interested in seeing the true OFX rates compared to Transferwire's rates if you can post them on Monday.

[bbi1]

5 minutes ago, AtoZ said:

You are mistaken

 

1) You can't compare rates during weekend - as noted by the user above

 

2) You can't really compare rates of Transferwise or OFX unless you actually use them - the rates are indicative even when you send them the money. They request extra to cover fluctuations until the transaction is settled. Then they refund what is left

 

If I check my Transferwise transactions in the past

 

A

Transferwise

1045.5 AUD -> 25,000 THB

Visa would be on the same day

1,040.6 AUD -> 25,000 THB

 

B

Transferwise

1011.43 AUD -> 24,000 THB

Visa would be on the same day

1,004.4 AUD -> 24,000 THB

 

Visa/Mastercard is always cheaper than any other alternatives, then it depends on possible atm/bank fees.

 

Thanks.  So it looks like Visa/Mastercard has the best rates in the market, but only by about $5 to $7, not taking into account any ATM fees.

[AtoZ]

5 minutes ago, bbi1 said:

Thanks.  So it looks like Visa/Mastercard has the best rates in the market, but only by about $5 to $7, not taking into account any ATM fees.

You can save by withdrawing large amount in Kbank over the counter ... 150k THB max for 200 THB fee

 

Or get Citibank AU and using their ATM in Bangkok for free

[Pib]

I'll give you some tonight from a comparison I did around a month ago in comparing Transferwise, OFX, Bangkok Bank ACH, Visa and Mastercard for various amounts on specific date. Due to OFX's lower customer exchange rate they came in last. I have the comparison in a spreadsheet...but it's on my computer at home and I'm away from home right now.

[Chivas]

23 minutes ago, AtoZ said:

You are mistaken

 

1) You can't compare rates during weekend - as noted by the user above

 

2) You can't really compare rates of Transferwise or OFX unless you actually use them - the rates are indicative even when you send them the money. They request extra to cover fluctuations until the transaction is settled. Then they refund what is left

 

If I check my Transferwise transactions in the past

 

A

Transferwise

1045.5 AUD -> 25,000 THB

Visa would be on the same day

1,040.6 AUD -> 25,000 THB

 

B

Transferwise

1011.43 AUD -> 24,000 THB

Visa would be on the same day

1,004.4 AUD -> 24,000 THB

 

Visa/Mastercard is always cheaper than any other alternatives, then it depends on possible atm/bank fees.

 

 

I have no idea where you are getting your information from lol. Transferwise lands at interbank rates and with no landing fee either from the thai bank

Visa/Mastercard will not be always cheaper

[KhunBENQ]

37 minutes ago, AtoZ said:

Visa/Mastercard is always cheaper than any other alternatives, then it depends on possible atm/bank fees.

Yes it depends and practically untrue.

 

I just compared the rate/fees of a TW transfer that I initiated on Thursday with a fictional VISA Europe ATM withdrawal on the same day.

 

With the 220 Baht ATM fee the (best case) 30000 Baht ATM withdrawal would have cost me 805.06 Euro (30220 Baht at a rate of 37.5376 [VISA Europe on Thursday]).

 

Sending the same amount (805.06) would have earned me 30240 Baht on Transferwise.

(TW fee is 3 Euro base fee and 0.5% after that for Euro to Baht, rate was 37.93992)

 

And that is the best case comparison for ATM withdrawal.

The ATM looses way off for higher amounts due to the worse VISA rates and the multiple fee.

AND my home bank does not charge a foreign exchange fee for ATM withdrawal as many do.

In latter case the ATM withdraw would look even worse.

Edited August 25, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[KhunBENQ]

As I have zero experience with OFX I can't comment on that.

[AtoZ]

6 minutes ago, KhunBENQ said:

I just compared the rate/fees of a TW transfer that I initiated on Thursday with a fictional VISA Europe ATM withdrawal on the same day.

 

With the 220 Baht ATM fee the (best case) 30000 Baht ATM withdrawal would have cost me 805.06 Euro (30220 Baht at a rate of 37.5376 [VISA Europe on Thursday]).

 

Sending the same amount (805.06) would have earned me 30240 Baht on Transferwise.

(TW fee is 3 Euro base fee and 0.5% after that for Euro to Baht)

 

And that is the best case comparison for ATM withdrawal.

The ATM looses way off for higher amounts due to the worse VISA rates and the multiple fee.

 

Where you get the numbers?

 

https://www.visaeurope.com/making-payments/exchange-rates

 

30,220.00 Thai Baht = 801.94 Euro

 

And I already said I DON'T count the atm fees as it depends on circumstances. I never pay the 220 THB fee, my bank refunds it.

[KhunBENQ]

11 minutes ago, AtoZ said:

30,220.00 Thai Baht = 801.94 Euro

 

And I already said I DON'T count the atm fees as it depends on circumstances. I never pay the 220 THB fee, my bank refunds it.

OK sorry, I clicked the wrong date.

The outcome would then be very close.

 

I don't argue against ATM withdrawal if your home bank still reimburses the 220 Baht. As far as I know all banks in Germany have stopped this (mine surely).

 

I did the same in the good old times (AEON ATM with no fee withdrawal up to almost 100k or home bank reimburses fee).

Edited August 25, 2018 by KhunBENQ

[AtoZ]

1 minute ago, KhunBENQ said:

I don't argue against ATM withdrawal especially if your home bank still reimburses the 220 Baht. As far as I know all banks in Germany have stopped this (mine surely).

Don't know about Germany banks

 

No matter your nationality you can get Schwab debit card (which reimburses atm charges) if you have their Hong Kong Investing account 

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, AtoZ said:

You can save by withdrawing large amount in Kbank over the counter ... 150k THB max for 200 THB fee

 

Or get Citibank AU and using their ATM in Bangkok for free

Which Kbank branch do you recommend? I actually went to one yesterday and they told be that branch it can't be done. Need to go to Emquartier or Paragon. They (the branch that can't be used) also told me the limit is either 25k or 50k over the counter, also they said there's no fees over the counter. Even if it was 150k THB limit then the ING Aussie card limit would come into place of $2,200, therefore around 50k THB would probably be the max that could be taken from the counter, but then ING charges 2.5% international transaction fees too apparently.

 

Unfortunately don't have a Citibank AU card or bank account. Been using the Citibank branch ATMs at Asoke for a few years but with an ING card it costs 200 baht each time, and now Citibank at Asoke lowered their max limit from 50k to a max limit of 30k since a few months ago which sucks ?

Edited August 25, 2018 by bbi1

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

I'll give you some tonight from a comparison I did around a month ago in comparing Transferwise, OFX, Bangkok Bank ACH, Visa and Mastercard for various amounts on specific date. Due to OFX's lower customer exchange rate they came in last. I have the comparison in a spreadsheet...but it's on my computer at home and I'm away from home right now.

Ok thanks, will await the comparision ?

[Chivas]

I gave up trying to obtain cash using a counter withdrawal even when having my own bank SCB with book in hand as "encouragement".....BB blankly refused likewise

Always redirect to ATM

[Pib]

2 hours ago, bbi1 said:

Thanks for both your comments. Would be interested in seeing the true OFX rates compared to Transferwire's rates if you can post them on Monday.

 

2 hours ago, Pib said:

I'll give you some tonight from a comparison I did around a month ago in comparing Transferwise, OFX, Bangkok Bank ACH, Visa and Mastercard for various amounts on specific date. Due to OFX's lower customer exchange rate they came in last. I have the comparison in a spreadsheet...but it's on my computer at home and I'm away from home right now.

 

Here you go....exchange rates as of 3 Aug 18 8:30am...exchange rates from Transferwise, OFX, Visa, and Mastercard exchange rate pages. Various amounts from 500 USD to 15K USD were used.    Rates are "customer" rates....what the is really given by each.  Visa and MC amounts assume use of a no foreign transaction fee card which also reimburses ATM fees. 

 

If this was a horse race which represented most baht in your account for the least charge to you after fully evaluating exchange rate "and" fees, then the race finish would be as follows

1.  Mastercard

2.  Visa

3.  Transferwise

4.  OFX

 

[Pib]

Although a can't give an OFX customer rate for AUD-THB today since OFX doesn't give an exchange rate on some currencies pairs when the FX market is closed, I can give you a right now comparison say for a 1000 AUD--SGD (Signapore dollars) comparison.

 

Notice the OFX customer exchange rate is around 1.5% lower than Transferwise.   Even with no OFX direct fee their lower exchange rate in comparison to the Transferwise exchange rate plus fee makes Transferwise the winner.

 

OFX Customer Rate 25 Aug/4:45pm

 

Transferwise Customer Rate 25 Aug/4:45pm

[KhunBENQ]

More numbers desired

To compensate for my miscalculation above I went into the VISA Europe and Transferwise sites with the current rates (and fees) as of AUG 25, 2018.

I used three example amounts which refer to the max withdrawal at a Thai ATM:

30000, 60000, 90000 and 120000 Baht.

These amounts are best case for ATM users who don't get the fee reimbursed.

 

25 AUG 2018, 19:30h (Transferwise rates can vary every other moment but are garanteed as soon as you initiate)

All examples THB -> EUR.

 

Transferwise (rate 37,90444), requested payment incl. fee as per TW site ("low cost transfer"):
30000   ->   798,44
60000   -> 1593.84
90000   -> 2389.27

120000 -> 3184.69

 

VISA Europe (37.5376363134) incl. Thai ATM fee:

30220 ->     805.06
60440 ->   1610.12
90660 ->   2415.18

120880 -> 3220.23

 

Thai ATM fee reimbursed (selected home banks):
30000 ->     799.20
60000 ->   1598.40
90000 ->   2397.59

120000 -> 3196.79

 

Transferwise low cost transfer (direct debit or instant transfer) from Germany takes less than 24 hours.

[KneeDeep]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:03 AM, Chivas said:

I gave up trying to obtain cash using a counter withdrawal even when having my own bank SCB with book in hand as "encouragement".....BB blankly refused likewise

Always redirect to ATM

 

You need a credit card.

Many branches flatly refuse debit cards for over the counter withdrawals....and even when Siam Commercial Bank do allow it, they may add an 180 Admin Fee.

So credit card at another bank, then to transfer it to SCB if you don't want to carry it by hand.

Edited August 26, 2018 by KneeDeep

[Pib]

On 8/25/2018 at 1:45 PM, bbi1 said:

Thanks for both your comments. Would be interested in seeing the true OFX rates compared to Transferwire's rates if you can post them on Monday.

Here is a OFX and Transferwise exchange rate comparison Monday/27Aug/9:45am.   Actual customer rates are used.   This is important as many money transfer services, like OFX, only show the FX market rate on their public website (worm on the hook type approach); it does not show their actual customer rates once you open an account with them.  However, Transferwise is different in this respect as you get the FX market rate and the rate they show you, with or without an account, is the same.

 

When evaulating a money transfer service you must price out both exchange rate and any direct fees.   A lower exchange rate is basically an indirect fee.  So even if a service does not charge a  direct fee their exchange rate will be where they make their profit....is an indirect fee....money out of your pocket into their pocket. 

 

As you will see below OFX lower exchange fee equates into a very healthy indirect fee....much higher than Transferwise's direct fees.  When exchange rates and direct/indirect fees are costed-out, Transferwise is the better deal.

 

AUD             OFX Rate       TW Rate      Difference %   Equivalent Indirect Fee in AUD

1000           23.3450          23.84326     2.1%                  21

3000           23.4126          23.84326    1.9%                   57

5000            23.4426         23.84326    1.7%                   85

10000         23.4833         23.84326     1.5%                  150

15000         23.5072         23.84326     1.4%                  210

25000         23.5299         23.84326     1.3%                  325