Don Meuang Airport: Enter three time times then go back to your home country!

[devaram]

I was detained yesterday at Don Meuang Airport because my last entry to Thailand was 30 days exempt at Suvarnabhum then I got one 30 day extension and one border run to mae sai Then I went to Malaysia and came back to Bangkok just hoping to stay for three weeks before going to India.

The agent said "oh you got an extension you have to see my supervisor". She didnt even look at my previous visas and long history of visa running.

I was taken to the office and the supervisor said without really commenting on my long history simply IN MY COUNTRY YOU CAN CAN COME THREE TIMES THEN YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO YOUR HOME COUNTRY. YOU GOT 30 DAYS THEN EXTENSION THEN MAE SAI NOW WHEN ARE YOU GOING BACK TO YOUR COUNTRY?

I sort of begged (which I am ashamed of) to stay for 3 weeks so I can go to India then I would go back to America.

She then had the dude at the computer write into the system that I would go to India in three weeks and then go back to America then I was given a 30 day stamp and allowed to go.

I wonder does that mean they would check when I leave that I have a ticket for India/America? Or does it mean simply they would have evidence and fuel to deport me if I came back without having been to US?

 Is not getting a new passport at a US embassy the same as going back in terms of checking in ? How is it different?

Disturbing experience but my ass has been kicked out of here and the game is over. Time to leave but I am a bit confused as the rules seem to change every month and every airport and embassy has a different rule. One thing is clear no more visa running in Thailand. They view visa runners as scum. After all now they have billions of Chinese tourist who needs visa runners? What is not clear is can one use Bangkok as a transport hub to stay  in other countries in the region which is all I have been doing for 3 years but with a few extensions here and there? The word extension came up allot. They really don't like it if you got an extension. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tanoshi]

And your previous history was 'Visa exempt' entries?

 

Getting a new passport won't solve anything, it will still link to entries from your old passport.

Time to start getting a Visa for the purpose of your reason to stay.

[ubonjoe]

There is no rule stating you have to return to your home country after having 3 visa exempt entries. Just nonsense from a rogue officer.

I don't think anything was entered in the system about you going to India in 3 weeks and then going home. They were probably just putting you entry into the system.

[JackThompson]

If you have been in Thailand for awhile, is always best to enter Thailand using a Tourist Visa.  Visa-Exempt entries are given at the discretion of Immigration.  As you have discovered, IOs at that (and some other) airports hate people who "stick around too long" - and no one knows what "too long" is, so the treatment received by a foreigner is arbitrary.

 

50 minutes ago, devaram said:

IN MY COUNTRY YOU CAN CAN COME THREE TIMES THEN YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO YOUR HOME COUNTRY.

This is a lie, but lying by supervisors is typical at both Bangkok airports and the Poipet land-border crossing.  That is a new lie, btw - recently, they have been inventing some limit of "days in country" over an inconsistent period of time, then giving a refusal stamp referencing a part of the statute which has no reference to time-in-country (since there is no legal limit).

 

48 minutes ago, devaram said:

I wonder does that mean they would check when I leave that I have a ticket for India/America? Or does it mean simply they would have evidence and fuel to deport me if I came back without having been to US? 

When leaving - definitely no issue.  Only the "permitted stay" date is legally binding. 

 

When returning at some point in the future, I don't think we know for sure if they have some sort of "comment" record in their database which they could check, then compare to what you actually did.  As long as you don't enter by air or Poipet, it is unlikely to matter.  I would definitely come on a Tourist Visa, in any case.
 

51 minutes ago, devaram said:

Is not getting a new passport at a US embassy the same as going back in terms of checking in ? How is it different?

A new passport will not alter the record in Thailand-immigration regarding your entry/exit history.  Generally, the only advantage to a new passport is with regard to obtaining Tourist Visas at consulates in the region - but, it would also remove the ability of them to see your stamp-history of other countries, and they seem to examine every stamp when I enter.  In the case of the USA, citizens do not get an entry-stamp at some entry-points, and never an exit-stamp.

 

55 minutes ago, devaram said:

I am a bit confused as the rules seem to change every month and every airport and embassy has a different rule. 

One thing is clear no more visa running in Thailand. They view visa runners as scum.

Some airports are run by people who do their jobs dishonestly, and seem to view foreigners, in general, as scum.  Those who "stick around too long" are particularly hated. 

 

The consulates make up their own rules for how many visas they will give per-passport.  Some have no limit, but may require showing things like a bank-balance, room-rental, and a flight/bus/train ticket out within 60 or 90 days of when you apply for it.  Others have a limit, but this is reset with every new passport.

 

As long as you have a valid Tourist Visa, do not enter by air or via the Poipet/Aranya land-crossing, and you carry 20K Baht worth of cash to show (if asked), you very unlikely to have any problems entering Thailand.  Many people have been doing this for years, and continue to do so without issue.  It is simply a matter of getting Tourist Visas, and entering at locations (most) that follow the actual rules (not made-up rules).

 

1 hour ago, devaram said:

After all now they have billions of Chinese tourist who needs visa runners? What is not clear is can one use Bangkok as a transport hub to stay  in other countries in the region which is all I have been doing for 3 years but with a few extensions here and there? The word extension came up allot. They really don't like it if you got an extension. 

As per above, "extension" seems to mean "foreigner who sticks around" in the minds of some - but they are just BS-ing.  Unfortunately, at the airport, they can BS you right into a detention-cell, and force you to book a last-minute flight out of the country - so best to just avoid the risk by not entering there. 

 

If you goal is travel in the region, I would use another country as the hub.  Vietnam, Cambodia, and The Philippines will be happy to help you spend money in their country for as long as you want.

[devaram]

Thanks for your intelligent  and informed comments guys! I feel better now!

[adammike]

25 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

If you have been in Thailand for awhile, is always best to enter Thailand using a Tourist Visa.  Visa-Exempt entries are given at the discretion of Immigration.  As you have discovered, IOs at that (and some other) airports hate people who "stick around too long" - and no one knows what "too long" is, so the treatment received by a foreigner is arbitrary.

 

This is a lie, but lying by supervisors is typical at both Bangkok airports and the Poipet land-border crossing.  That is a new lie, btw - recently, they have been inventing some limit of "days in country" over an inconsistent period of time, then giving a refusal stamp referencing a part of the statute which has no reference to time-in-country (since there is no legal limit).

 

When leaving - definitely no issue.  Only the "permitted stay" date is legally binding. 

 

When returning at some point in the future, I don't think we know for sure if they have some sort of "comment" record in their database which they could check, then compare to what you actually did.  As long as you don't enter by air or Poipet, it is unlikely to matter.  I would definitely come on a Tourist Visa, in any case.
 

A new passport will not alter the record in Thailand-immigration regarding your entry/exit history.  Generally, the only advantage to a new passport is with regard to obtaining Tourist Visas at consulates in the region - but, it would also remove the ability of them to see your stamp-history of other countries, and they seem to examine every stamp when I enter.  In the case of the USA, citizens do not get an entry-stamp at some entry-points, and never an exit-stamp.

 

Some airports are run by people who do their jobs dishonestly, and seem to view foreigners, in general, as scum.  Those who "stick around too long" are particularly hated. 

 

The consulates make up their own rules for how many visas they will give per-passport.  Some have no limit, but may require showing things like a bank-balance, room-rental, and a flight/bus/train ticket out within 60 or 90 days of when you apply for it.  Others have a limit, but this is reset with every new passport.

 

As long as you have a valid Tourist Visa, do not enter by air or via the Poipet/Aranya land-crossing, and you carry 20K Baht worth of cash to show (if asked), you very unlikely to have any problems entering Thailand.  Many people have been doing this for years, and continue to do so without issue.  It is simply a matter of getting Tourist Visas, and entering at locations (most) that follow the actual rules (not made-up rules).

 

As per above, "extension" seems to mean "foreigner who sticks around" in the minds of some - but they are just BS-ing.  Unfortunately, at the airport, they can BS you right into a detention-cell, and force you to book a last-minute flight out of the country - so best to just avoid the risk by not entering there. 

 

If you goal is travel in the region, I would use another country as the hub.  Vietnam, Cambodia, and The Philippines will be happy to help you spend money in their country for as long as you want.

The Amsterdam consulate requires for a 60 day visa, passport,copy of photo page in passport,copy of flight ticket/schedule,two passport photos and a filled in visa application that you download and print out and €30 cash.they have zero copying facilities.Is that not standard practice? You can apply by post .

[Travelanimal]

THe more visa exempt entries the more the trouble . It’s better to avoid these entries on passport when planing to live Thailand every now and then

[devaram]

"It is simply a matter of getting Tourist Visas, and entering at locations (most) that follow the actual rules"

And what would those locations be?LOL

You mentioned not fly in so even suvarmabhum is not by the rules?

By the way I flew in to avoid the terrible treatment and conditions at the sadao border ( they literally scream at you) but apparently as long as you show 20k  its more basic than Don Meuang?

[ganegon]

It really seems that in DMK they are enforcing the old rule about 90 days in 180 days period by themselves, isn’t it? It is not the first report that I read talking about this. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by ganegon

[elviajero]

18 hours ago, devaram said:

"It is simply a matter of getting Tourist Visas, and entering at locations (most) that follow the actual rules"

And what would those locations be?LOL

You mentioned not fly in so even suvarmabhum is not by the rules?

By the way I flew in to avoid the terrible treatment and conditions at the sadao border ( they literally scream at you) but apparently as long as you show 20k  its more basic than Don Meuang?

If you are going to try and stay long term as a tourist you will risk questioning/hassle wherever you try to enter.

 

IO's have discretional power to deny entry to anyone staying longer than required for tourism, so it doesn't matter what "rules" they quote, if they don't want to let you in they can legally, and within the rules, deny entry.

 

Avoid using visa exempt entry, and that will reduce the chances of questioning/denied entry. 

[Bangkok Barry]

Base yourself somewhere else to travel the region and spend your money there. Foreigners are tolerated but not really wanted in Thailand. They may be wise to the fact that if you stay for any length of time you lose the rose-coloured glasses that two-week tourists wear and see what a fcuked-up country it is. And they don't like that.

[Media1]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:37 AM, ubonjoe said:

There is no rule stating you have to return to your home country after having 3 visa exempt entries. Just nonsense from a rogue officer.

I don't think anything was entered in the system about you going to India in 3 weeks and then going home. They were probably just putting you entry into the system.

Correct another IMO cowboy.  You are permitted 3 entries a year if l remember correctly. And there was no note on computer LOL.

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, Media1 said:

You are permitted 3 entries a year if l remember correctly. And there was no note on computer LOL.

There is certainly no written limit on visa exempt entries by air of any kind. 

There is no provision to enter such info in immigration system as far as I know.

[BritTim]

7 hours ago, elviajero said:

IO's have discretional power to deny entry to anyone staying longer than required for tourism,...

You often state this. It is true for visa exempt entries. However, I have never seen anything official that suggests this is true for those entering with tourist visas. You seem to believe there is a secret Ministerial Order giving officials that power, but have never explained why such an order would need to be secret.

[Media1]

13 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is certainly no written limit on visa exempt entries by air of any kind. 

There is no provision to enter such info in immigration system as far as I know.

Yes but your only allowed 3 tourist visas a year right

[3421abc]

People need to stop doing visa runs by air. 

There is no limit of how many times you can come in but the immigration officer will tell you whatever he wants. It is useless to argue w them. 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

44 minutes ago, Media1 said:

Yes but your only allowed 3 tourist visas a year right

There is no limit on how many tourist visas you can get in a year. The only limit is how many you can get at one embassy or consulate.

[Media1]

10 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

There is no limit on how many tourist visas you can get in a year. The only limit is how many you can get at one embassy or consulate.

Ok

[bluesnake]

They make up their own rules, and anyway they can reject you even if you don't break any rules. Everything is at the discretion of the immigration officer. 2 weeks ago I went to Poipet and was refused entry for VOA because "You cannot out-in on the same day", even though I have done this many times in the past. Had to go back to Cambodia, they wanted me to re-pay 1,000 to cancel the exit stamp, which I refused and was stuck in no-man's land for a while, until some top officer finally decided to give me a pass for free. Then I had to go to Siem Reap to buy a flight to BKK. At Siem Reap they almost didn't let me fly because now I had less than the 20k cash because I had to pay for the flight and taxi, etc. Arriving at Don Muang, they flagged me right away, and I was brought in front of the top female officer, which told me I have too many stamps in my passport, and that I can stay in Thailand 180 days per year max. I said I never heard of this rule, but she seemed angry that I tried to argue, and said "This is my country, I know the rules". I was interviewed extensively on what I am doing here, had to show my bank book, my return flight to home country. But she kept saying it is 180 day max, and hinted that now she will have to send me back to home country. Now I thought the party was over. But I tried to keep the conversation going, so I asked her what are my options then if I cannot stay on tourist visas ? She said must return to home country, or find thai wife, or make the Elite Card but it is expensive. I joked, yes, expensive, but less expensive than a wife. And she finally smiled and relaxed a little. Then after me showing some interest to make this Elite Card, she finally thought I was honest enough and said that she is giving me a last chance, and let me go with a 30 days stamp. But that was seriously close to deportation, and I am sure that, if my attitude had been a little bit angry or less cool, I would have been deported. So please guys, stop saying that there is no such rules or whatever, it doesn't matter if there is or not, everything is at the discretion of the officer.

[The Theory]

On 8/25/2018 at 10:17 AM, devaram said:

They view visa runners as scum.

They definitly don’t think that, but they do think that visa runners are illegal workers or involve in illegal businesses. 

They are just enforcing the law. Nothing new. 

[jimn]

I dont have any facts to back this up. It appears from reading posts on here recently that DMK seems to have a number of rogue officers that appear not to follow the rules. I would give it a miss and fly into BKK in future but have all the usual requirements to hand. Flight out, 20,000 THB and if possible a hotel booking. Should not be required but have them just in case.

Edited August 26, 2018 by jimn

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

You often state this. It is true for visa exempt entries. However, I have never seen anything official that suggests this is true for those entering with tourist visas. You seem to believe there is a secret Ministerial Order giving officials that power, but have never explained why such an order would need to be secret.

Whether you enter under the Tourist Visa Exempt Scheme or using a Tourist Visa you are entering for tourism. The only difference is 30 or 60 days.

 

I don't believe there is a secret anything. I know for a fact that the Immigration Act gives the power to TIB to deny entry to whoever they want with the approval of the Minister.

 

They clearly aren't and don't want to deny people -- in any number -- entering with a Tourist Visa so there is no need to announce anything. It is a different policy to VE enforcement which has set defined limits. It is also clear based on their reported actions that IO's are judging long term tourists on a case by case basis, and rarely deny entry.

 

• Why do you think they don't want people living in the country using VE, but it's ok with a TR?
• Why would they need to publish a policy that affects an insignificant number of visitors and that is hardly used?
• Why do you believe that a country is not going to give power to it's border force to deny entry to anyone that they believe is not entering for the reason given?

[elviajero]

19 minutes ago, jimn said:

I dont have any facts to back this up. It appears from reading posts on here recently that DMK seems to have a number of rogue officers that appear not to follow the rules. I would give it a miss and fly into BKK in future but have all the usual requirements to hand. Flight out, 20,000 THB and if possible a hotel booking. Should not be required but have them just in case.

It appears the "rogue officers" at DMK have some 'rogue mates' at BKK so flying into BKK isn't necessarily the solution.

 

Anyone staying long term as a tourist could come across an IO at any border that will be doing their job based on the "rules" and their orders at that border, and in particular the inconsistent enforcement of their discretionary powers.

 

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, BritTim said:

You often state this. It is true for visa exempt entries. However, I have never seen anything official that suggests this is true for those entering with tourist visas. You seem to believe there is a secret Ministerial Order giving officials that power, but have never explained why such an order would need to be secret.

 

Anyone in a uniform has power, whether 'officially' or not. And what are you going to do if they say A but B is the rule? Call the police? Who are you going to appeal to? Any official can do whatever they want and will be backed up by others of their kind, for obvious reasons. And if you argue the least they will do is look through you as if you don't exist.

[brian1314]

As of 31st December 2016 Thailand limit visa exempt entries at land border to TWO per calendar year, but all countries under visa exempt get 30 days. The day you arrive is counted as first day. A valid Tourist Visa allow 60 day stay and a valid Non Immigrant Visa allow 90 day.Apr 9, 2018

Google it

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, brian1314 said:

As of 31st December 2016 Thailand limit visa exempt entries at land border to TWO per calendar year, but all countries under visa exempt get 30 days.

The discussion is about entries by air not by land.

[Suradit69]

2 hours ago, brian1314 said:

As of 31st December 2016 Thailand limit visa exempt entries at land border to TWO per calendar year, but all countries under visa exempt get 30 days. The day you arrive is counted as first day. A valid Tourist Visa allow 60 day stay and a valid Non Immigrant Visa allow 90 day.Apr 9, 2018

Google it

This has nothing to do with the discussion. The people posting in this thread are well aware of everything you copied and pasted.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by Suradit69

[jackdd]

4 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Who are you going to appeal to?

To the Prime Minister and Minister of Interior using the form TM11 https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1486548054958.pdf

[Media1]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

To the Prime Minister and Minister of Interior using the form TM11 https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1486548054958.pdf

They dont even read it. It will not make it passed Somchai and Pun

Edited August 26, 2018 by Media1

[JackThompson]

On 8/25/2018 at 12:01 PM, adammike said:

The Amsterdam consulate requires for a 60 day visa, passport,copy of photo page in passport,copy of flight ticket/schedule,two passport photos and a filled in visa application that you download and print out and €30 cash.they have zero copying facilities.Is that not standard practice? You can apply by post .

The form is per-consulate, and the photos and copy of passport are standard.  The rules for required additional documents (flight-tickets, bank-statement, etc) vary by consulate. 

 

In cases I am aware of, one can apply by post to the Thai consulate in one's passport-country, only while residing in one's passport-country.  If applying at a Thai consulate in a different country, one applies in-person. 

 

Some Thai-consulates have copying facilities on-site (Vientiane, Laos), others nearby.