Don Meuang Airport: Enter three time times then go back to your home country!

[jackdd]

13 minutes ago, Media1 said:

They dont even read it. It will not make it passed Somchai and Pun 

Here a report of somebody who said it worked for him:

On 3/9/2018 at 4:45 PM, lazygourmet said:

As Khun Ubonjoe said: this is not a deportation but a denial of entry.

A little bit too late now, but you should have been able to have it cancelled by filling a TM 11 form to appeal against the immigration officer who stamped your passport.

That happened to me four years ago and within an hour I was welcome back to Thailand while they were still dreaming to put me back on the next flight to Brussels.

Scanned Document.pdf

 

[Media1]

15 hours ago, ganegon said:

It really seems that in DMK they are enforcing the old rule about 90 days in 180 days period by themselves, isn’t it? It is not the first report that I read talking about this. 

They need to reported in Thai to government officials

[Lovethailandelite]

The Tourist visa game is very nearly up.There will be a database of visas issued and the Embassy's and consulates will be linked in to the same system, swapping passports will hide nothing.The Thai Embassy's in London, Kula Lumpar ( A notice is posted in the Embassy there) , Paris and Beijing are about to implement the same E visa system that was first rolled out in Singapore. Information via screen shot from the London Royal Thai Embassy forum page. At this time London and Ireland are still accepting postal applications until further notice. Further information will be provided when the system changes over to E visa applications.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The Tourist visa game is very nearly up.There will be a database of visas issued and the Embassy's and consulates will be linked in to the same system, swapping passports will hide nothing.The Thai Embassy's in London, Kula Lumpar ( A notice is posted in the Embassy there) , Paris and Beijing are about to implement the same E visa system that was first rolled out in Singapore. Information via screen shot from the London Royal Thai Embassy forum page. At this time London and Ireland are still accepting postal applications until further notice. Further information will be provided when the system changes over to E visa applications.

It will take a while before places like a consulate in Laos use an E-Visa

Do embassys or consulates in Europe have a Tourist Visa limit? Never heard of it, afaik you can get as many as you want

[adammike]

49 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The form is per-consulate, and the photos and copy of passport are standard.  The rules for required additional documents (flight-tickets, bank-statement, etc) vary by consulate. 

 

In cases I am aware of, one can apply by post to the Thai consulate in one's passport-country, only while residing in one's passport-country.  If applying at a Thai consulate in a different country, one applies in-person. 

 

Some Thai-consulates have copying facilities on-site (Vientiane, Laos), others nearby.

It's what I need when I go for a 60 day tourist visa the bank details etc are for retirement and other visas,two months away from our winter is what my budget allows and a 60 visa is enough.Every year when I go for my visa I see them turning people away because they haven't got a copy of their passport or ticket it's just a reminder to take whatever they want.

[Lovethailandelite]

7 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It will take a while before places like a consulate in Laos use an E-Visa

Do embassys or consulates in Europe have a Tourist Visa limit? Never heard of it, afaik you can get as many as you want

It takes no time at all to bring a system in and online at a particular office when the system is already running. The system has already been under trial and perfected in Singapore. You will be surprised how quickly this is implemented. I guess it will be down to them how many visas they will issue against your history and if they think your living here on the incorrect visa. Certainly Singapore refuse visas pretty regularly. That's not my call. I am just relaying the information of big changes being brought in of how you will need to apply for a visa in the near future. It won't be a case of simply turning up.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, jackdd said:

6 hours ago, Bangkok Barry said:

Who are you going to appeal to?

To the Prime Minister and Minister of Interior using the form TM11 https://www.immigration.go.th/download/1486548054958.pdf

You can't appeal if denied under section 12.1 or 12.10.

[elviajero]

47 minutes ago, jackdd said:

It will take a while before places like a consulate in Laos use an E-Visa

Do embassys or consulates in Europe have a Tourist Visa limit? Never heard of it, afaik you can get as many as you want

Up until now most haven't needed to apply limits. I doubt many perpetual tourists fly back to their home country to apply for back to back SETV's.

 

It will be like everything that has gone before. If too many people started getting back to back visas from their home country the door would eventually close.

[balo]

I would think racism also is a part of the package , if you're Indian I would imagine the IO officer will be more strict than if you have a white skin , sorry but it happens.

 

[BritTim]

8 hours ago, elviajero said:

• Why do you think they don't want people living in the country using VE, but it's ok with a TR?
•  Why would they need to publish a policy that affects an insignificant number of visitors and that is hardly used?
• Why do you believe that a country is not going to give power to it's border force to deny entry to anyone that they believe is not entering for the reason given?

I do not know why they issued Police Orders in 2014 (followed up by an instruction from the prime minister to apply the rule "flexibly") that immigration should not permit back-to-back entries visa exempt as a way of staying extended periods in Thailand, but never issued anything similar for tourist visas. That does not change the fact that this was their decision.

 

I think there are plenty of immigration officials that have the same opinion as you do. Denial of entry to those with tourist visas is still very rare because the officials, whatever their individual opinions, need to find a reason under Section 12 of the Immigration Act to deny entry (I do not believe there is a secret order telling them to use their discretion).

 

As to not making a supposed instruction to immigration officials public because the numbers involved are "insignificant", I would argue that there are several criteria for denying entry in Section 12 of the Immigration Act that are rarer.

 

As to why the Immigration Act specifically states that only the Minister can arbitrarily decide to include or exclude individual travelers or groups of travelers from Thailand, I am speculating as I was not one of the drafters of the Act. It is my belief that there was most likely a fear that giving individual immigration officials that power would be an open invitation to corruption. They did not want officials saying I am going to deny you entry, but for 1,000 baht I am willing to let you in.

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, Media1 said:

They dont even read it. It will not make it passed Somchai and Pun

If they ignore it, you are automatically allowed to enter (as I recall) after seven days. However, this only applies if you are entering with a visa. No appeal is allowed if entering visa exempt.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The Tourist visa game is very nearly up.There will be a database of visas issued and the Embassy's and consulates will be linked in to the same system, swapping passports will hide nothing.

Implementing this at small honorary consulates with no IT support will not be easy. Even the online 90-day report system (much simpler, and all within Thailand) is after years not yet working in all offices. I am sure you are correct that it will eventually happen though.

[geriatrickid]

On 8/24/2018 at 11:37 PM, ubonjoe said:

There is no rule stating you have to return to your home country after having 3 visa exempt entries. Just nonsense from a rogue officer.

I don't think anything was entered in the system about you going to India in 3 weeks and then going home. They were probably just putting you entry into the system.

It is inappropriate and unfair to use the term rogue officer. Even if you accept the statements of the OP as verbatim (I do not), surely you must agree that "Visa running" is not a "best practice". A frequent visitor/long stay visitor should be using the appropriate visa.  The best advice in this case would be to obtain the appropriate visa and to not rely upon the loopholes of the 30 day entries.  He played the system, and his luck ran out. It is no secret that Thailand wishes to discourage visa runners. The OP's swipe at the Chinese who comply with the visa regulations, serves no purpose and provides a strong indicator of where the problem lies, i.e. the OP should focus on his own compliance and not concern himself with other visitors.

 

The OP should go and get a proper visa and then he can come and go as he wishes. If people put as much effort into compliance as they do in attempting to get around the  immigration regulations, they would not be sharing their tales of woe and heartache.

[Travelanimal]

Thailand should introduce a E visa similar to lines of Malaysia . Let their be leniency in getting tourist visa and properly declare the limit a person can come on tourist visa . And exempt entries .

lack of proper information is main reasons most get trouble at immigration .

if you are so concerned with people working illegally on tourist visa why not simply put a strict rule a person found working on visas other than working visas will have life ban to Thailand and any one found overstay more than 10 days also faces same punishment . Make it clear at immigration and put and sticker on back of passport to put it in mind of visitors .

With leniancy in tourist visas and strict rule against offenders it will impact in positive way . Person won’t be desperate to try illegal ways if legal ways are easy . 

With such punishment a person will think 1000 times before committing such mistake 

[lkv]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I do not know why they issued Police Orders in 2014 (followed up by an instruction from the prime minister to apply the rule "flexibly") that immigration should not permit back-to-back entries visa exempt as a way of staying extended periods in Thailand, but never issued anything similar for tourist visas. That does not change the fact that this was their decision.

More revenue. Quite a lot more. Visa exempt does not make money.

 

I remember reports where IO's had the audacity to phrase it as: "no more free for you, get visa next time", in reference to repeated visa exempt users.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2018 by lkv

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The Tourist visa game is very nearly up.There will be a database of visas issued and the Embassy's and consulates will be linked in to the same system, swapping passports will hide nothing.The Thai Embassy's in London, Kula Lumpar ( A notice is posted in the Embassy there) , Paris and Beijing are about to implement the same E visa system that was first rolled out in Singapore.

Calling it a e-visa is a misnomer. All that is being done is submitting the visa application and supporting documents online. Then you have to go to the embassy or consulate and submit everything again. Then you get the standard visa sticker.

A e-visa is submitting a application online and getting the visa by email. An example is e-visas for Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam.

There is nothing in that post by the embassy stating all embassies and consulates will be linked.

Perhaps reading the procedures on the Singapore embassy website will help. http://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matters-consular

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, Travelanimal said:

Thailand should introduce a E visa similar to lines of Malaysia . Let their be leniency in getting tourist visa and properly declare the limit a person can come on tourist visa . And exempt entries .

lack of proper information is main reasons most get trouble at immigration .

if you are so concerned with people working illegally on tourist visa why not simply put a strict rule a person found working on visas other than working visas will have life ban to Thailand and any one found overstay more than 10 days also faces same punishment . Make it clear at immigration and put and sticker on back of passport to put it in mind of visitors . 

With leniancy in tourist visas and strict rule against offenders it will impact in positive way . Person won’t be desperate to try illegal ways if legal ways are easy . 

With such punishment a person will think 1000 times before committing such mistake 

While I agree with strict enforcement of foreigners illegally taking Thai jobs, Westerners are not coming in large numbers to take low-paying under-the-table jobs.  The most common-case are English teachers - a job for which few Thais are qualified, and a native-speaker is the best choice - and many on this forum report that schools (public / govt schools, in many cases) simply refuse to provide the needed paperwork for the correct visa/extension/work-permit.  

By contrast, people from neighboring countries who work illegally in Thailand are estimated in the millions.   There is no limit on land-based visa-exempt entries for people from neighboring countries, as there is for the rest of us, which helps facilitate this.  When combined with the "low-paid worker visa" system (bought through agents at 10% of the worker's annual salary), it would appear that the use of low-cost legal and illegal labor is something the elite-class want to keep available (as is the case in my passport-country) to prevent more Thais entering the middle-class.

The best way to end this, would be to put those who hire the illegal-foreign-workers - those with the power in the equation - in prison for years per-offense for committing a form of treason against their countrymen.  The worker would also need to pay a legal price, but it should be relative to their power in the boss/worker equation.

 

In the case of Immigration and denials of entry - suspicion of illegal-working appears to be primarily an excuse, and of such thin veneer, when applied to Westerners - who are often not entering back-to-back (as would be needed to hold down a job) - that they rarely use this "reason for denial" stamp.  Recently, the denial-stamp they are using is based on the IO having knowledge - absent evidence on the subject, or even a request for evidence from the foreigner (psychic / telepathic?) - that a person's total liquid assets are insufficient to support their stay in Thailand.

[ubonjoe]

7 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

It is inappropriate and unfair to use the term rogue officer.

I think it is appropriate in this case according to this definition of rogue.

"behaving in ways that are not expected or not normal, often in a way that causes damage:"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rogue

[Media1]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

If they ignore it, you are automatically allowed to enter (as I recall) after seven days. However, this only applies if you are entering with a visa. No appeal is allowed if entering visa exempt.

So how did the previous poster get in after a 1 hour wait. The supervisor decided not to get heat from higher up l suppose.

[Media1]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think it is appropriate in this case according to this definition of rogue.

" behaving in  ways that are not  expected or not  normal, often in a way that  causes  damage:"

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/rogue

What about racist and rude

[Media1]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

Calling it a e-visa is a misnomer. All that is being done is submitting the visa application and supporting documents online. Then you have to go to the embassy or consulate and submit everything again. Then you get the standard visa sticker.

A e-visa is submitting a application online and getting the visa by email. An example is e-visas for Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam.

There is nothing in that post by the embassy stating all embassies and consulates will be linked.

Perhaps reading the procedures on the Singapore embassy website will help. http://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matters-consular

I don't believe these people know how to correctly check a passport online. So l would not worry

[jackdd]

5 minutes ago, Media1 said:

So how did the previous poster get in after a 1 hour wait. The supervisor decided not to get heat from higher up l suppose.

The person that i quoted had a tourist visa as you can see by looking at the entry stamp which he got

As somebody said before already, you can't appeal if they don't give a visa exempt, the appeal is only possible if you have any kind of visa

[Media1]

2 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The person that i quoted had a tourist visa as you can see by looking at the entry stamp which he got

As somebody said before already, you can't appeal if they don't give a visa exempt, the appeal is only possible if you have any kind of visa

But they allowed him back in correct after a 1 hour wait. Previously they were sending him to Brussels..

[Media1]

44 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

While I agree with strict enforcement of foreigners illegally taking Thai jobs, Westerners are not coming in large numbers to take low-paying under-the-table jobs.  The most common-case are English teachers - a job for which few Thais are qualified, and a native-speaker is the best choice - and many on this forum report that schools (public / govt schools, in many cases) simply refuse to provide the needed paperwork for the correct visa/extension/work-permit.  

By contrast, people from neighboring countries who work illegally in Thailand are estimated in the millions.   There is no limit on land-based visa-exempt entries for people from neighboring countries, as there is for the rest of us, which helps facilitate this.  When combined with the "low-paid worker visa" system (bought through agents at 10% of the worker's annual salary), it would appear that the use of low-cost legal and illegal labor is something the elite-class want to keep available (as is the case in my passport-country) to prevent more Thais entering the middle-class.

The best way to end this, would be to put those who hire the illegal-foreign-workers - those with the power in the equation - in prison for years per-offense for committing a form of treason against their countrymen.  The worker would also need to pay a legal price, but it should be relative to their power in the boss/worker equation.

 

In the case of Immigration and denials of entry - suspicion of illegal-working appears to be primarily an excuse, and of such thin veneer, when applied to Westerners - who are often not entering back-to-back (as would be needed to hold down a job) - that they rarely use this "reason for denial" stamp.  Recently, the denial-stamp they are using is based on the IO having knowledge - absent evidence on the subject, or even a request for evidence from the foreigner (psychic / telepathic?) - that a person's total liquid assets are insufficient to support their stay in Thailand.

But they use this information against white skin farang who probably wouldn't want to work at gun point like me lol.

[ubonjoe]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

If they ignore it, you are automatically allowed to enter (as I recall) after seven days. However, this only applies if you are entering with a visa. No appeal is allowed if entering visa exempt.

That is one person's opinion. In my opinion it is not correct.

It is based upon this from Section 22 of the immigration act. 

Quote

Appealling cases are not allowed under Section 12 (1) or (10) , but if the Minister does not have an order
within seven days beginning from the date of submitting the appeal, it is considered that the Minister has
ordered that said alien is not forbidden from entering into the Kingdom under Section 12.

Only if it was stated that the entry was being denied under those two section would it be denied. Also saying that it is not allowed since a a person does not have a visa is not correct under 12 (1). This is what it states.

Quote

1. Having no genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of passport ; or having a
genuine and valid passport or document used in lieu of a passport without Visaing by the Royal Thai
Embassies or Consulates in Foreign countries ; or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs , excepting if a visa
is not required for certain types of aliens in special instances.
Visaing and visa exemption will be under the learn and conditions as provided in the Ministerial
Regulations.

 

 

[gregk0543]

Thanks for putting your experience for others to see and be aware of.

 

In all countries in the world immigration officers or officers of the law can have their own understanding of the law which may not be the law. It is not just a Thai thing. The best example of it I ever got of this was entering into Myanmar many years ago on a 1 year visa for meditation.  The immigration officer had never seen a 1 year meditation visa and she said it did not exist even though it was in front of her. She got all excited like I might have faked it. She tried to call her superior. She couldnt get him on the phone.  I asked her to let me show her something in my passport. I had another 2 of them already used in the same passport. She still insisted there is no 1 year meditation visa.  I also speak Burmese was very polite to her but she kept on about it not existing even though it was right in front of her, 3 of them in the same passport. Eventually she stamped me in for 1 year still shaking her head and saying it doesnt exist. 

 

I have also been to Thailand with visa exempt arrivals many times 6 or 8 times every year for last 8 years.

But I have never stayed more than a few days each time. 2 weeks at most. I have done 3 border crossings by land this year already from Myanmar. 

 

They look at your overall behaviour I spend most of the time in Myanmar. I have a multientry 1 year myanmar visa. It isnt hard to see where I am living.  So if you are really using the visa exempt for what it is meant to be used for and dont look like you could be using it to live in the country and settle down then you may not have an issue.

 

I have not been asked any questions except are you living in Myanmar in all that time when I go to Thailand.

My only concern is the visa exempt number of land entries. 

 

There are approximately 3 to 4 million Myanmar nationals working and living in Thailand. I hear different numbers from different Myanmar officials. They are are necessary part of the Thai economy now. They cant get rid of them. They have very strict rules now though and employers can be jailed and fined big fines. They have introduced documentation etc. Everytime I have been at Myanmar embassy in Bkk I overhear many cases of illegals trying to get a letter from embassy to get them back to Myanmar. Or the other day one complaining that the Thai employer had held his passport and wouldnt give it back or pay him his wages.

 

Immigration officials have rarely travelled as much as you have so they dont have your experience. They are hard working people in a difficult job facing thousands of entries a day. When I stand in those queues in any country I feel sorry for them. Especially when language issues come up. Put yourself in their shoes.

 

 

[jackdd]

7 minutes ago, gregk0543 said:

Immigration officials have rarely travelled as much as you have so they dont have your experience. They are hard working people in a difficult job facing thousands of entries a day. When I stand in those queues in any country I feel sorry for them. Especially when language issues come up. Put yourself in their shoes.

The job can't be so difficult if they still have time to make up their own rules. Just stamping somebody in is clearly easier than making up a rule to refuse him entry

[Lovethailandelite]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Calling it a e-visa is a misnomer. All that is being done is submitting the visa application and supporting documents online. Then you have to go to the embassy or consulate and submit everything again. Then you get the standard visa sticker.

A e-visa is submitting a application online and getting the visa by email. An example is e-visas for Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam.

There is nothing in that post by the embassy stating all embassies and consulates will be linked.

Perhaps reading the procedures on the Singapore embassy website will help. http://www.thaiembassy.sg/visa-matters-consular

Thanks for the link but I am fully aware of how the system used in Singapore to set up the future way of obtaining a Thai visa works. If you are interested in learning more, I suggest entering into discussion with The London Royal Thai Embassy. They after all are the ones supplying the information on how this is going to work regarding a central database of information.
Have a great day.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Lovethailandelite

[gregk0543]

3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The job can't be so difficult if they still have time to make up their own rules. Just stamping somebody in is clearly easier than making up a rule to refuse him entry

Yes but they have supervisors on their case if they make a mistake so the pressure is on. And if they bust someone breaking the law maybe they can get a promotion for their smarts. So maybe they dont have incentive to just let everyone through.

[jackdd]

23 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is one person's opinion. In my opinion it is not correct.

It is based upon this from Section 22 of the immigration act. 

Only if it was stated that the entry was being denied under those two section would it be denied. Also saying that it is not allowed since a a person does not have a visa is not correct under 12 (1). This is what it states.

 

 

My interpretation is like this:

12(1) states that you need to have a valid passport and a valid visa to enter Thailand. A visa is not required if you are exempted because of a ministerial order.

A while back there was this update that back to back visa exempts should not be allowed anymore (was this a ministerial order?)

So if they don't exempt you from having a visa (which they can do if the news mentioned above was about a ministerial order) you are required to have a visa, which you don't have at this moment, so they can deny you for not meeting the requirements of 12(1) against which you can not appeal according to section 22.

 

But i don't know which reason they stamp in your passport when they deny you the visa exempt, is it 12(1) or something else? In case it's something else you could appeal against it. But it might happen that they then cancel your 12(2) or whatever denial and give you a 12(1) denial instead.

 

In case they ever deny me entry with a visa exempt and the reason they stamp in my passport is not 12(1) or 12(10) i will submit the appeal and see what happens ?