Tourist Schengen Visa for Thai girlfriend. Spain vs other countries.

[Mai Mee Tang]

Hello lads,

 

My first post here, so please be patient with me. I will try to provide all the relevant information.

 

I'm going back to my home country, Spain, in October for 3-4 weeks holidays and I would like to take my Thai girlfriend with me.

 

I've been reading about the amount of documents which need to be provided by her to the Spanish Embassy (BLS Agency) and also about the many inconvenients found when dealing with them (I do know how tiring can be to deal with my country's bureocracy). I've also read it could be easier to request the very same Visa to other countries within EU, like the Netherlands, and we would buy the tickets to get into the EU via this specific country and afterwards fly to Spain.

 

The problem in here relies on how she can prove she will come back to Thailand after our holidays, as she:

- Has no property.

- Has no kids.

- Has no regular job. Working on Internet without contract or regular income.

- Is not studying at any school/university at the moment.

- She has no previous Visas. She just did 2 travels out of Thailand (Singapore and Vietnam), both with me during this year.

- She has not much money in the bank, around 20.000 baht.

 

I will support economically her travel, expenses, etc. And we can prove, via the rental contract of the condo, we have been living together for the last 6 months.

 

What do you think is the best approach to get her the tourist visa on the first attempt? Request it via Spain Embassy or another country within EU?

 

If the Visa gets rejected, is she having a red stamp on her passport? Does this mean second attempt will get harder?

 

Thank you in advance,

 

-.Mai Mee Tang.-

 

 

[bkkbarnstormer]

It can be done but will most likely depend on your situation. Do you have a work permit and long term extension of stay in Thailand? If so, you should provide full details of your Thai based employment, bank statement showing your salary. Also include lots photos of the two of you together including Singapore and Vietnam, as well as with her/your family if any available, and at your condo. 

 

There is no red stamp in a passport for visa rejection. 

 

You can can use an agency but many agencies charge crazy prices and offer little benefit vs a well organized application. 

[cedel]

Mai mee tang: Chok dee... Good luck but without either a guarantor in the EU that earns at least 1400€ monthly and is willing to take the risk to guarantee she will not stay in EU after 3 month (the guarantor can have to pay all the expenses of detention, her flight ticket, as well as 1 or 2 return flight for policemen to fly with her to make sure she goes back.. Also eventual hospital costs etc.. That can reach easily 10000 or 15000€...)..

Or she needs to have a regular last 3 months bank statement with average 800-1000 baht daily income and enough money to pay for her expenses while in EU... 

Without regular job and /or property, I guess it will be impossible to get her visa unless you or a friend can "guarantee" her (even if you have enough money in the bank but DO NOT EARN AT LEAST 1400 €net, you are not allowed to guarantee her) 

[maesai]

My Thai partner was told by a visa agency in CM that if he can show a bank deposit of around 300,000 baht, he should be able to get a visa for France. He is not employed, but has an internet based business and owns some land and a house. They said if he is declined for the visa, there will be no charges from the agency. We plan to give it a try next year.

[keithcresswell]

I got a visa for my Thai girlfriend to Spain by applying through the French embassy. We travelled to Paris first, stayed 3 nights and then flew to Spain. She had very little money in her bank so I did a supporting letter inviting her as I'm an EU citizen (British) and explaining that I would be covering all costs. This probably would not work once Brexit kicks in.

[pipbcn]

nothing to do with the Spanish embassy.

the only way is once you are back in Spain, apply for an invitation letter

https://www.policia.es/documentacion/no_comunitarios/car_requisitos.html

[khunPer]

Tn theory a Schengen Visa should be the same requirements in all Schengen countries, however in Spain you might have accommodation and can be a guarantor, whilst applying for Visa from other Schengen countries might be more strict about proof of accommodation, might consider you as tourists.

 

The odds you have described are not too favorable, proof of a job and higher amount in the bank would probably help. When I brought my Thai girlfriend to Schengen, they wanted proof of minimum 50,000 baht in her account – a shared Thai account with two names was also accepted – but that was some years back, so probably more today.

 

The last time my girlfriend and I visited Schengen, and her 4th visit (all with me), I was no longer permanent resident (moved to LoS), and my girlfriend was therefore considered a tourist, even I was guarantor, and requiring confirmed prepaid hotel bookings, and a complete day-by-day agenda.

 

We was seeking Visa in my home country's embassy (in Bangkok), even we would spend most of our time in other Schengen countries. Visa application might be slightly different from country to country, even Schengen-rules should be considered to be identical.

?

[LukKrueng]

On 8/25/2018 at 2:18 PM, Mai Mee Tang said:

we would buy the tickets to get into the EU via this specific country and afterwards fly to Spain.

 

afaik you don't have to fly to the actual country that granted you the visa. The accrual rules say that you should apply for a visa from the country you visit first OR the country you'll spend the longest time in. In any case, no such information is printed on the visa and the immigration officer in Europe only cares that you have a valid visa in the passport. you can simply show flight booking to wherever you tell them you are going (in any case you are not supposed to actually buy the ticket before you get the visa). I've done it several times in the past - applying through a country I had no plans to visit just coz it was easier and faster to apply than it would have through the country I actually visited.

as far as your gf goes, she really doesn't have much to offer to show she won't overstay her visa or work in Europe.

[Donutz]

Check the schengen sticky topic near the top of this forum. Some if the replies here are not entirely correct.

 

First of all your girlfriend is the applicant.  So it's primarily all about her. You take a back seat in this. She will have to satisfy the embassy staff that she is likely to return to Thailand and not do anything silly such as overstating or working. She will have to show that the trip is affordable,  the plans are genuine etc. If you act as a sponsor it's just that.  Its still primarily about her.

 

The Financial requirements ( for financial sponsorship or if the applicant has sufficient funds themselves) are different for each member state.

 

You need to apply at the country that is your main destination.  Only if there is no clear main destination, then you can apply at the Schengen embassy of first entry.

[Donutz]

On 8/26/2018 at 5:12 AM, bkkbarnstormer said:

It can be done but will most likely depend on your situation. Do you have a work permit and long term extension of stay in Thailand? If so, you should provide full details of your Thai based employment, bank statement showing your salary. Also include lots photos of the two of you together including Singapore and Vietnam, as well as with her/your family if any available, and at your condo. 

 

There is no red stamp in a passport for visa rejection. 

 

You can can use an agency but many agencies charge crazy prices and offer little benefit vs a well organized application. 

Regarding stamps, they shouldn't be used anymore since the VIS database has been active all around the world by all.Schengen embassies. UK visa authorities also have access to this database . Member states us this to keep track of applications, this in order to prevent vida shopping etc.

 

The EU instructions for Schengen embassy staff from 2010 say this:

 

------

4.5.2. How should an admissible application be treated? 
If the application is admissible, the stamp indicating that the application is admissible (Annex 
13) shall be placed in the applicant's travel document (see point 4.5.3 below) and the further 
examination shall be carried out. (..)

 

If the application is admissible, the stamp indicating that the application is admissible should 
be placed in the applicant's travel document (see point 4.5.3 below), the application file 
should be created in the VIS and the further examination shall be carried out.

 

4.5.3. When and how to use the stamp indicating that an application is admissible 
Legal basis: Visa Code, Article 20 and Annex III 
Before the in-depth examination of the application, the "admissibility" stamp – in the uniform 
format – shall be placed on the first available page of the travel document that contains no 
entries or stamps. The date of the application, the type of visa applied for ("C" or "A"), and 
the code of the Member State where the application has been lodged shall be added manually, 
if they are not fixed by the stamp. 
No additional data may be added in the stamp and the stamp only signifies that an 
application has been lodged and has been considered admissible. 
The "admissibility" stamp shall be used until the VIS has become fully operational in all 
regions.

-----

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/visa-policy_en

 

So stamp or no stamp, the traveller is recorded in a database for all EU/EEA countries to see.

[ncc1701d]

On 8/27/2018 at 8:10 AM, LukKrueng said:

afaik you don't have to fly to the actual country that granted you the visa. The accrual rules say that you should apply for a visa from the country you visit first OR the country you'll spend the longest time in. In any case, no such information is printed on the visa and the immigration officer in Europe only cares that you have a valid visa in the passport. you can simply show flight booking to wherever you tell them you are going (in any case you are not supposed to actually buy the ticket before you get the visa). I've done it several times in the past - applying through a country I had no plans to visit just coz it was easier and faster to apply than it would have through the country I actually visited.

as far as your gf goes, she really doesn't have much to offer to show she won't overstay her visa or work in Europe.

I don’t think it’s “or”. You have to apply to which country you will be in the longest. But you can still enter via a different country to that.

 

another post said French Schengen wants to see B300,000 - if that true my tgf is in big trouble. Will be applying in the next few weeks for a French one and she doesn’t have that. I do, but my being Gaurentor doesn’t seem to make any difference.

[LukKrueng]

7 hours ago, ncc1701d said:

I don’t think it’s “or”. You have to apply to which country you will be in the longest. But you can still enter via a different country to that.

my point was that once you get the visa you can visit all schenegen countries, not only the countries mentioned in the application. No one check if yoy actually visited the country through which you applied for the visa. So you can look for a country that is easier for visas and apply there. Once you have the visa just go to any country you want. In one case when I planned a visit to France I found out that the French embassy had some procedure requirements that made it more difficult for me. I applied to the German embassy instead. Once I got the visa I haven't set foot in Germany in that visit. another time I was traveling to 3 different countries spending 1 night in one, 5 nights in a second and 10 nights in the 3rd. According to the rules I should have applied through the 3rd but I applied through the 2nd as it was the fastest and easiest. I hope I made my point clearer this time. 

[Jip99]

On 8/26/2018 at 11:59 AM, keithcresswell said:

I got a visa for my Thai girlfriend to Spain by applying through the French embassy. We travelled to Paris first, stayed 3 nights and then flew to Spain. She had very little money in her bank so I did a supporting letter inviting her as I'm an EU citizen (British) and explaining that I would be covering all costs. This probably would not work once Brexit kicks in.

 

 

That would not have worked if you had applied via BLS Spain or VfS Italy. They would not accept me as sponsor because we are not married.... I had to put 120,000 Baht in my GF's bank account.

 

(You will still be a British citizen after Brexit !!)

Edited August 29, 2018 by Jip99

[keithcresswell]

22 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

That would not have worked if you had applied via BLS Spain or VfS Italy. They would not accept me as sponsor because we are not married.... I had to put 120,000 Baht in my GF's bank account.

 

(You will still be a British citizen after Brexit !!)

Correct, I'll still be a British Citizen: but not an EU citizen!! 

[Mai Mee Tang]

Thank you all for your comments and advice!

Just to provide some feedback, my gf applied for the Schengen Tourist Visa last friday to NL embassy via VFS and today we have received her passport with the granted Visa at home.

To prepare all the documentation, it took us some time, money and work but finally we succeed without any Visa agency.

[Mai Mee Tang]

my point was that once you get the visa you can visit all schenegen countries, not only the countries mentioned in the application. No one check if yoy actually visited the country through which you applied for the visa. So you can look for a country that is easier for visas and apply there. Once you have the visa just go to any country you want. In one case when I planned a visit to France I found out that the French embassy had some procedure requirements that made it more difficult for me. I applied to the German embassy instead. Once I got the visa I haven't set foot in Germany in that visit. another time I was traveling to 3 different countries spending 1 night in one, 5 nights in a second and 10 nights in the 3rd. According to the rules I should have applied through the 3rd but I applied through the 2nd as it was the fastest and easiest. I hope I made my point clearer this time. 

Just wondering if this is checked when a new Visa is requested, I mean if you requested the visa to one country and after that never visit this country, will this be checked in the future if you request another Schengen visa, as far as I know they request to show former Visas on the passport and all the stamps for entry and exits on the same passport. So I would say it is pretty easy for the embassy to check if you followed the itinerary you show them on first place, at least if you really got into the EU via their country.

[LukKrueng]

50 minutes ago, Mai Mee Tang said:

On 8/29/2018 at 6:47 AM, LukKrueng said:

my point was that once you get the visa you can visit all schenegen countries, not only the countries mentioned in the application. No one check if yoy actually visited the country through which you applied for the visa. So you can look for a country that is easier for visas and apply there. Once you have the visa just go to any country you want. In one case when I planned a visit to France I found out that the French embassy had some procedure requirements that made it more difficult for me. I applied to the German embassy instead. Once I got the visa I haven't set foot in Germany in that visit. another time I was traveling to 3 different countries spending 1 night in one, 5 nights in a second and 10 nights in the 3rd. According to the rules I should have applied through the 3rd but I applied through the 2nd as it was the fastest and easiest. I hope I made my point clearer this time. 

Just wondering if this is checked when a new Visa is requested, I mean if you requested the visa to one country and after that never visit this country, will this be checked in the future if you request another Schengen visa, as far as I know they request to show former Visas on the passport and all the stamps for entry and exits on the same passport. So I would say it is pretty easy for the embassy to check if you followed the itinerary you show them on first place, at least if you really got into the EU via their country.

No, it is not checked. In Europe there are no passport stamping when traveling from one country to another so basically they have no way of checking it.

The reason they want to see previous visas and in/out stamps is to see that you already got visas in the past (will usually be easier to get second / 3rd and so on visas than it would be for the 1st time) and the in/out stamps is for the in/out of Europe to see that you didn't overstay your previous visa

[Mai Mee Tang]

No, it is not checked. In Europe there are no passport stamping when traveling from one country to another so basically they have no way of checking it.
The reason they want to see previous visas and in/out stamps is to see that you already got visas in the past (will usually be easier to get second / 3rd and so on visas than it would be for the 1st time) and the in/out stamps is for the in/out of Europe to see that you didn't overstay your previous visa

I know they is no inmigration between Schengen countries and then no passport stamping :)

So, based on your experience, you had no issue when requesting a new Schengen visa even in the previous one the in/out stamp of Schengen was from a different country than where your previous visa was issued? Did you apply twice in the same embassy or did you change to a different one?

Thank you in advance!

[LukKrueng]

10 minutes ago, Mai Mee Tang said:

I know they is no inmigration between Schengen countries and then no passport stamping ?

So, based on your experience, you had no issue when requesting a new Schengen visa even in the previous one the in/out stamp of Schengen was from a different country than where your previous visa was issued? Did you apply twice in the same embassy or did you change to a different one?

Thank you in advance!

Several times in same embassy (even though some of the trips didn't involve that country) and at least once in another embassy

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

No, it is not checked. In Europe there are no passport stamping when traveling from one country to another so basically they have no way of checking it.

There are sometimes checks within the Schengen Area, only last month my wife and I were travelling by train from Hungary to Austria, during the journey Austrian Immigration Officers boarded the train and carried out a passport check on all passengers.

The officers had portable devices which enabled them to check passengers against the EURODAC Database. 

[Mai Mee Tang]

There are sometimes checks within the Schengen Area, only last month my wife and I were travelling by train from Hungary to Austria, during the journey Austrian Immigration Officers boarded the train and carried out a passport check on all passengers.
The officers had portable devices which enabled them to check passengers against the EURODAC Database. 

I guess with a valid Visa this should lead to no problem at all, right?

While in Schengen within the dates allowed in the Visa, we shall expect no problems, shall we?

[LukKrueng]

2 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

There are sometimes checks within the Schengen Area, only last month my wife and I were travelling by train from Hungary to Austria, during the journey Austrian Immigration Officers boarded the train and carried out a passport check on all passengers.

The officers had portable devices which enabled them to check passengers against the EURODAC Database. 

Never happened to me, but I never traveled between Schengen countries by train, only by car. Still - did they stamp passports of non Europeans? 

Anyway - I was never asked about previous travels and if I actually visited the country I got the visa from

[theoldgit]

27 minutes ago, Mai Mee Tang said:

I guess with a valid Visa this should lead to no problem at all, right?

While in Schengen within the dates allowed in the Visa, we shall expect no problems, shall we?

We've never ecounterd a problem even though passports are fairly often checked these days.
Entering Schenghen, or most other countries, even with visa doesn't guarantee admission as you still have to satisfy the Border Officer that you're a genuine visitor.

[Mai Mee Tang]

We've never ecounterd a problem even though passports are fairly often checked these days.
Entering Schenghen, or most other countries, even with visa doesn't guarantee admission as you still have to satisfy the Border Officer that you're a genuine visitor.

Any advice in regards that? Shall we prepare again all the papers shown to the Embassy?

[theoldgit]

1 hour ago, Mai Mee Tang said:

1 hour ago, theoldgit said:

We've never ecounterd a problem even though passports are fairly often checked these days.
Entering Schenghen, or most other countries, even with visa doesn't guarantee admission as you still have to satisfy the Border Officer that you're a genuine visitor.

Any advice in regards that? Shall we prepare again all the papers shown to the Embassy?

Most Schenghen Consulates suggest that you carry copies of the evidence used when applying for a visa, we normally carry the basics but have never been asked for more than evidence of a flight home.

[ncc1701d]

Thanks to all posters, this has been a useful thread.

 

Tgf is applying via French embassy end of this month. Will update our (her) progress.

Edited September 23, 2018 by ncc1701d

[wimpy]

On 9/23/2018 at 1:49 PM, ncc1701d said:

Thanks to all posters, this has been a useful thread.

 

Tgf is applying via French embassy end of this month. Will update our (her) progress.

Curious if this worked for you?

[ncc1701d]

On 10/19/2018 at 1:54 PM, wimpy said:

Curious if this worked for you?

So... the process as with all these sorts of things is a pita. The embassy has outsourced the application procedure to a company called TLS (fr.tlscontact.com)

 

You need to follow each step meticulously. There’s an online form, an (almost) identical paper form (just enough differences to make you confused enough to have to call and ask what’s going on. For example we only needed single entry, but the online form only allows you to put multiple entries). But they give checklists to go through, so that’s good. Calling them is a process. I’m not living in Thailand and rather than calling and being put on hold, they ask for your telephone number and they call you back at their convenience (same day). So that means you either have to be in Thailand to receive the call or trust that your gf will get through everything that needs to be covered. I love my tgf, but jesus... she just doesn’t think the same way I do when it comes to asking questions. 

 

Next is getting all the paperwork. We had no one in France inviting us or any relatives that could vouch for her, so we had to use the hotels. That took a while for them to send our itinerary. (which means you have to book hotels, flights etc. and know what you’re doing and just hope they give her the visa. No stress involved there st all... ????)

 

You have to get travel insurance. All straight forward just time consuming. I made the mistake of just getting for our planned days, and the visa reflects those exact days of the travel insurance. Now we want to extend only one day and I’m not looking forward to how to do that... so don’t be a tight arse like me and get more days than you need.

 

Here’s the the best part... just when you think you’ve done everything online, know that you can get all the paperwork they want, you then submit the online details so that you can make a booking with tls in BKK. So far in the whole process they’ve only asked for - and have been absolutely specific about - do we have relatives or people we know IN France. Not out of France, but in France that can act as referees or whatever. We don’t. Not once did it ask for details on if you are travelling with anyone, their details etc. I would supply all my details anyway to show when she takes all the paperwork to tls, but it didn’t ask for them and no where to put those details anyway. It would be wrong to put my details in the part where it asks for a French referee because... I’m not. Until, of course, AFTER you submit the date to make a time for submitting everything and there’s no way to change the application or booking date (without pleading with them on the phone) - in big warning letters it says something like “make sure you have put all the details of the person you are travelling with IN the application” ????????. 10 phone calls later they said not to worry just submit everything when you come. 

 

then it comes to going to the tls office to submit everything. I wasn’t there when she did this, so the below is all based off what I could figure out that happened.

 

there’s two ways of doing it, the free way and the vip way (B1,600). Other than they give you fruit and coffee, Not sure it’s easily distinguishable between the two, as the free way lady said she will help my gf get everything in the correct order to submit and make sure she has everything. While that tls lady was nice and friendly enough, she didn’t understand all the paperwork my gf had brought in. (She has her own business, so had a different set of paperwork to bring in then someone who has an employer). Even though I had written a letter explaining our entire trip, why we were going, where we were staying and booking confirmations for 7 different hotels for our holiday, my own bank statements and job etc, she wanted to have my gf listed as a guest at the hotels I’d booked. So instead of argueing the point, gf just said “ok” and left. 

 

So then it was a mad rush to get the hotels to put her name specifically on the bookings and we were now running out of time, as the embassy says it could take 21 days to get your passport back. The hotels I’m staying at hadn’t asked for her name when making the booking, just that it was a room for 2. So that was a process (some hotels wanted her passport copy and blah blah - things I didn’t even need when making the booking myself...). So I would recommend putting your gf’s name in the hotel booking when you make it. Part of the journey we are staying at Airbnb - tls said we needed the owners details (it was a consortium owned property, the guy who made the listing lived in the Netherlands or somewhere like that, the consortium was a French company etc etc. royal pita). She had to make a new booking - but that was a week away and there was no way she was going to get her passport back in time so another round of begging on the phone to come in earlier (basically had to pay the B1,600 which we were going to do anyway, but now basically had to). Finally got done and I told gf to go directly to the vip area, pay the B1,600 and get them to look over everything and that she was to submit everything whether they liked it or not. 

 

Vip area had a photo booth to make photos (because you know no matter how good you do it elsewhere, there’s always something wrong with it). Vip also has free photocopying and printing for when you have forgotten something which is good. 

 

Submitted on a Monday, got an email it was ready to be picked up on Wednesday ???? so much for freaking out about 21 days. Hope all this helps.

 

If anyone has info on getting extensions to Schengen Visa (whilst in France), that would be helpful. I’m hoping it’s just pay for the extra travel insurance and go to some local office to get it done. Anything I’ve searched online is for people with the maximum 90 days tourist visa trying to get an extension. Gf has about a 2 week visa and wants to extended a day, so not really the same.

 

 

 

[wimpy]

1 hour ago, ncc1701d said:

So... the process as with all these sorts of things is a pita. The embassy has outsourced the application procedure to a company called TLS (fr.tlscontact.com)

Thanks for all that great info. I have no idea where we will be staying when we move on from France to Italy. Think it might make sense to make a fully refundable hotel reservation, in my partner's name, for the entire length of stay. Then cancel it once the visa is issued.

[Donutz]

On 9/21/2018 at 12:17 PM, Mai Mee Tang said:

Thank you all for your comments and advice!

Just to provide some feedback, my gf applied for the Schengen Tourist Visa last friday to NL embassy via VFS and today we have received her passport with the granted Visa at home.

To prepare all the documentation, it took us some time, money and work but finally we succeed without any Visa agency.

So she applied as a regular tourist  (incase of a durable relationship akin to marriage she could have applied for a free visa under the relaxed EU family member rules, but from your original post I assumed your relationship is still fresh, less then say 12 months or 6 months cohabitation, so that wouldn't have worked). 

 

She didn't provide evidence of 34 euros per day (to show she is financially solvable to pay for the duration of the trip), instead you acted as a sponsor. The Dutch have a sponsor/host form for this purpose but usually they require the sponsor to have this form signed by the Dutch municipality or the Dutch embassy, along with the sponsor showing sufficient and stable income (100% Dutch  minimum wage for a fulltime job, about €1600 before taxes). So how did you deal with that bit? 

 

A list of the documents you provided would be nice. The Dutch MFA told me they stopped being relaxed about missing documents so it would be useful to see what you as a non-Dutch person did to sponsor her etc.