drvin Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) Would like some guidance here. In thailand if an engagement breakup is mutual before the wedding, what is the custom and the law regarding the return of the engagement ring to the donor. The ring was bought and given in the USA where the laws are that the ring must be returned, but in Thailand, what laws would apply as the ring is in thailand now? Edited August 29, 2018 by drvin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rc2702 Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 If it is mutual I think you sacrifice the item as a gift. If she calls it off I think it's right to give it back as it's kind of a contractual symbol IMO. No idea in Los. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lungstib Posted August 29, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 29, 2018 I am under the impression that marriage in Thailand is solely a paper issued by the amphur. Dowry may be covered by tradition but engagement and a ring, as far as I know, is not part of any Thai tradition. Considering a man gives his woman this ring I would imagine any Thai woman would say, it was a gift its mine. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstevens Posted August 29, 2018 Share Posted August 29, 2018 (edited) My understanding is that if in the case of the payment of a dowry or the purchase of any "kong mun" (items of engagement) before marriage, there is no requirement on the part of the lady to return it if the man calls things off or it's called off by mutual agreement. If, however, she does something which could reasonably be considered as reason to call the wedding off, then she has to return all dowry / "kong mun" and there may be an expectation that she should pay back what she was given x2 or x3 as compensation for loss of face for what has happened Edited August 30, 2018 by mstevens 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Esso49 Posted August 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2018 Clearly a gift here. Perhaps you should consider kidnapping her ( if she is not in the US), take her back to the US where, if what you say is correct, demand the return of the ring !! Or else just put it down to experience, and next time, if you are so mercenary about giving gifts to people you love at some stage in your life, just get engaged to yourself !!! 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotpoom Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, drvin said: the return of the engagement ring to the donor A strange turned of phrase....seems you "donated" it to the person concerned? Edited August 30, 2018 by dotpoom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bkkgriz Posted August 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2018 There is no law that an engagement ring must be returned. It is treated as a gift. People with a sense of ethics would probably return the ring, but those are in short supply these days. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Are you for real You bought her a ring & now you want it back - Maybe the other people you read about that have lost a lot more will come in & advise (Oh guess what, I am one of them ), & as it was only money it means the wife NO HAVE (common phrase in Thailand ) First of all she should use a 3 x 2 bit of wood when you ask for it back 2 nd thing is she would of seen it as a gift & since being of value could hock it if needed 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecko123 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 https://www.thailandlawonline.com/thai-family-and-marriage-law/family-law-sections-marriage-and-engagement Section 1439 and 1440 appears to support mstevens post #4. I would say that if the woman calls off the engagement, she should return the ring. The over-arching principle in play here is that no one should receive undue enrichment in the process. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_smith237 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 10 minutes ago, BEVUP said: Are you for real You bought her a ring & now you want it back - Maybe the other people you read about that have lost a lot more will come in & advise (Oh guess what, I am one of them ), & as it was only money it means the wife NO HAVE (common phrase in Thailand ) First of all she should use a 3 x 2 bit of wood when you ask for it back 2 nd thing is she would of seen it as a gift & since being of value could hock it if needed None of this matters... The Op wants to know what his legal options are, if there are any. The ring could be viewed as a contract which if broken should be returned... I'm not privy to the Thai law on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 minute ago, richard_smith237 said: None of this matters... The Op wants to know what his legal options are, if there are any. The ring could be viewed as a contract which if broken should be returned... I'm not privy to the Thai law on this. & I suppose he had a Prenupt I think some people should join the real world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinbin Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, mstevens said: My understanding is that if in the case of the payment of a dowry or the purchase of any "kong mun" (items of engagement) before marriage, there is no requirement on the part of the lady to return it if the man calls things off or it's called off by mutual agreement If a woman/family claims things that are not true to enhance her 'Sin Sot' then that is fraud. Examples being she claims to be a virgin, has a Uni degree, has never been married before etc etc the 'Sin Sot' has to be repaid. You don't pay top wack for fake items. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Vacuum Posted August 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2018 I think the OP got off easy. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEVUP Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, Vacuum said: I think the OP got off easy. Yes I suppose if he built the house & bought the car after they were married then it might be worth it 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smotherb Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, bkkgriz said: There is no law that an engagement ring must be returned. It is treated as a gift. People with a sense of ethics would probably return the ring, but those are in short supply these days. In the US there some States where laws demand the ring be returned. Those States see the rings as a conditional gift for an agreed upon marriage. However, there may be exceptions; usually depending upon who cancels the wedding. If the decision to cancel the wedding were the giver of the ring, then the ring may be kept. If the decision to cancel the wedding was the recipient's or if it were a mutual decision, then the ring should be returned. However, other states say a gift is a gift. https://family.findlaw.com/marriage/what-happens-to-the-engagement-ring-in-a-broken-engagement.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger70 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Up to the Lady if she wants to give it back or trow it in the Shitter, you gave it you lose it it's Hers to do what she likes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post BritManToo Posted August 30, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted August 30, 2018 4 hours ago, drvin said: what is the custom and the law regarding the return of the engagement ring to the donor. Rings aren't in Thai culture, so there won't be any custom relating to that. However, gifts to a promised spouse are conditional on the marriage taking place, and should be returned if she changes her mind, but not returned if you change your mind. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 hours ago, BEVUP said: Are you for real You bought her a ring & now you want it back - Maybe the other people you read about that have lost a lot more will come in & advise (Oh guess what, I am one of them ), & as it was only money it means the wife NO HAVE (common phrase in Thailand ) First of all she should use a 3 x 2 bit of wood when you ask for it back 2 nd thing is she would of seen it as a gift & since being of value could hock it if needed A matter of opinion here. An engagement has been traditionally viewed as a pre marriage contract and the male seals the contract by giving a ring. The female seals the contract by accepting the ring. As it was owned by the male prior to the engagement then why shouldn't he have it back. It was his property and if she has changed her mind then she should give it back, certainly ethically if not legally. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, digger70 said: Up to the Lady if she wants to give it back or trow it in the Shitter, you gave it you lose it it's Hers to do what she likes An engagement ring is not a friendship ring. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chassa Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, car720 said: An engagement ring is not a friendship ring. This is Thailand, I've never heard of engagement rings! 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theonetrueaussie Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 If you do not go ahead and get married with either you or her calling it off, anything you gave her will be gone. Even if you went to court to get it back she can just claim you were at fault for the wedding getting called off and will be your word against hers...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony125 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 In the US it depends on the state and the circumstances if the ring is returned or not. If the guy breaks off the relationship without a good reason (cheating) then he forfeits the ring. If the girl calls off the wedding without a good reason then she is obligated to return the ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 ''the law regarding the return of the engagement ring'' Thailand not being a ''nanny'' country all i can do is laugh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombat Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 40 minutes ago, car720 said: An engagement ring is not a friendship ring. darn tootin cowboy...it signifies one step away from not giving anymore BJ's.....pmsl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger70 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 43 minutes ago, car720 said: An engagement ring is not a friendship ring. Duh, it don't matter, where I come from ,if the lady gets pissed of whatever it is an engagement or friendship, ring, a ring is a ring and she Will toss it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holy cow cm Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Good luck either way. For me I would just let it go. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon537687643 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 Such a funny thread! I mean a ... ring ?Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerkinsCuthbert Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 You gave the woman your promise of betrothal in the form of an engagement ring, now you've changed your mind and you want it back? LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight8 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 3 hours ago, Vacuum said: I think the OP got off easy. So you mean, she wasn't smart enough to take him to the cleaners, like her sisters. I agree with you. Another lesson learnt by yet another falang!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted August 30, 2018 Share Posted August 30, 2018 1 hour ago, wombat said: darn tootin cowboy...it signifies one step away from not giving anymore BJ's.....pmsl Nobody forcing you to give her BJ's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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