Can I be "Blacklisted" With Immigration if I obtain extension in city other than where I live?

[Dazinoz]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

That is assuming one has a home there.  Maybe this "service" comes with a fake-address / mail-drop, which is unique to every applicant? 

 

While we are allowed freedom of movement, this is only Provided Our 90-Day Reports are Accurate, which would require a TM-28 to change address, and a TM-30 to match.  So figure, for each extension, a set of these to "move" to Chonburi, then another set to "return" to Chang Mai.  That is the only way I could see it working out on paper. 

Yep, can see this. I have done the right thing last 5 years and fell short slightly this year so trying to work out best way to go about it, I definitely don't want to cause future problems for myself.

[notamember]

2 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

That is assuming one has a home there.  Maybe this "service" comes with a fake-address / mail-drop, which is unique to every applicant? 

 

While we are allowed freedom of movement, this is only Provided Our 90-Day Reports are Accurate, which would require a TM-28 to change address, and a TM-30 to match.  So figure, for each extension, a set of these to "move" to Chonburi, then another set to "return" to Chang Mai.  That is the only way I could see it working out on paper. 

people do it all the time, i know a guy who has a condo in Pattaya, did his extension  there for years. Met  girl, moved with her to Chiang Mail, rented out condo. He returns every year to re-sign new 1 year lease, re-rent or usually refurbish and re-rent his condo,

He registers his presence with a TM28 & TM30 and he does his renewal whilst he is In Chonburi as he is obliged to do and  as he has always.done

when his condo 'work' is done, he returns to CM and re-registers his 'old' address using a TM28 & TM30 in Chiang Mai

It does not raise any eyebrows in Chiang Mai and he has been asked only once and he told them

he follows the law, so wheres the problem?

[Dazinoz]

3 minutes ago, notamember said:

people do it all the time, i know a guy who has a condo in Pattaya, did his extension  there for years. Met  girl, moved with her to Chiang Mail, rented out condo. He returns every year to re-sign new 1 year lease, re-rent or usually refurbish and re-rent his condo,

He registers his presence with a TM28 & TM30 and he does his renewal whilst he is In Chonburi as he is obliged to do and  as he has always.done

when his condo 'work' is done, he returns to CM and re-registers his 'old' address using a TM28 & TM30 in Chiang Mai

It does not raise any eyebrows in Chiang Mai and he has been asked only once and he told them

he follows the law, so wheres the problem?

For me I am sure if there can be a problem it will surface.

[notamember]

1 minute ago, Dazinoz said:

For me I am sure if there can be a problem it will surface.

you are the master of your own destiny

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, notamember said:

people do it all the time, i know a guy who has a condo in Pattaya, did his extension  there for years. Met  girl, moved with her to Chiang Mail, rented out condo. He returns every year to re-sign new 1 year lease, re-rent or usually refurbish and re-rent his condo,

He registers his presence with a TM28 & TM30 and he does his renewal whilst he is In Chonburi as he is obliged to do and  as he has always.done

when his condo 'work' is done, he returns to CM and re-registers his 'old' address using a TM28 & TM30 in Chiang Mai

It does not raise any eyebrows in Chiang Mai and he has been asked only once and he told them

he follows the law, so wheres the problem?

My point was, I don't think most doing this to get extensions actually have a residence in Chonburi.  Those who do, and do as your friend is doing - with the TM-28, TM-30 in both directions, and 90-day reports that reflect his actual "where he is living" address - should be fine.

 

20 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Yep, can see this. I have done the right thing last 5 years and fell short slightly this year so trying to work out best way to go about it, I definitely don't want to cause future problems for myself.

I hear you.  I ran into corruption-roadblocks, and now use a Non-O ME Visa to avoid wading into the muck.  And in your case, the official nationwide rules don't require seasoning on the money in the bank portion of a combo application, so you are trying to find a workaround to a "made up rule" by a local office.

 

8 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

For me I am sure if there can be a problem it will surface.

If it were me, I would do what is necessary to stay, then file the TM-28 to "return" to your residence (assuming the extension is made elsewhere).  You are only doing this because some <deleted> decided to make up a rule to block your completely legit application, and your other alternatives are an even bigger PITA.

 

And even if requiring seasoning were required for combos, the head of the office has the leeway to waive this.  Instead of using that authority as designed - exactly for cases like yours - they use it to process completely-fraudulent no-money agent applications.

Edited September 2, 2018 by JackThompson

[Dazinoz]

8 minutes ago, notamember said:

you are the master of your own destiny

Yes people say that. I say BS. I don't go around trying to cause problems for my self.

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Yes people say that. I say BS. I don't go around trying to cause problems for my self.

The only time I've seen it go a bit wrong was was around my way. Two guys used the same agent 18,000 baht fee ok for 3 years then changed to another agent at 15,000. Got passports back with everything ok. Turned up to do 90 day reports and were told you can't do here, you have to go to Ayuthaya where you got your extension.

They are now back using the original agent.

[notamember]

13 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Yes people say that. I say BS. I don't go around trying to cause problems for my self.

yet here you are on a forum seeking help and advise from people who may be sympathetic but mostly have not got a clue as to how it all works, legal or otherwise and are happy to peer down from their ivory tower and issue disparaging comment upon persons who have not gazillions in the bank

people with 800,000 baht in the bank or an income letter or both   do not need an agent and will never have used one, so what do they really know about it?

They only repeat what others speculate about agents on here 

like Chinese whispers........

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, notamember said:

yet here you are on a forum seeking help and advise from people who may be sympathetic but mostly have not got a clue as to how it all works, legal or otherwise and are happy to peer down from their ivory tower and issue disparaging comment upon persons who have not gazillions in the bank

people with 800,000 baht in the bank or an income letter or both   do not need an agent and will never have used one, so what do they really know about it?

They only repeat what others speculate about agents on here 

like Chinese whispers........

Yes I am here to ask for help. Thank you for your valuable input.

 

[notamember]

1 minute ago, Dazinoz said:

Yes I am here to ask for help. Thank you for your valuable input.

 

heres some valuable input:

borrow some money to make up the shortfall and do it yourself using the combo method

if thats not possible then use an agent

[Dazinoz]

8 minutes ago, notamember said:

heres some valuable input:

borrow some money to make up the shortfall and do it yourself using the combo method

if thats not possible then use an agent

Again, conflicting stories. I am told you need 3 months, others say not. Someone quoted a police order number that says no. I read order and, unless I am reading wrong, it says I need to season. 

 

This from police order 327-2557 as quoted by a member on another thread.

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by Dazinoz

[notamember]

2 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Again, conflicting stories. I am told you need 3 months, others say not. Someone quoted a police order number that says no. I read order and, unless I am reading wrong, it says I need to season. 

 

This from police order 327-2557 as quoted by a member on another thread.

 

The law is:

all money (2 months season  first time, 3 months second year)

all pension/income letter from applicants embassy

combination of both to make 800,000 baht total

(money does not have to be seasoned for combo method)

However some immigration officers/offices make their own rules and insist it is to be seasoned

 

i know a guy who skips the seasoning period with an income letter reflecting 36.09 per month in an annuity payment with an income letter from the British embassy and has been doing it since Barry Kenyon MBE sat in the big chair in Chomtien

 

 

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

Again, conflicting stories. I am told you need 3 months, others say not. Someone quoted a police order number that says no. I read order and, unless I am reading wrong, it says I need to season. 

 

This from police order 327-2557 as quoted by a member on another thread.

 

That is- missing number 5 for the combination option.

[Dazinoz]

9 minutes ago, notamember said:

The law is:

all money (2 months season  first time, 3 months second year)

all pension/income letter from applicants embassy

combination of both to make 800,000 baht total

(money does not have to be seasoned for combo method)

However some immigration officers/offices make their own rules and insist it is to be seasoned

 

i know a guy who skips the seasoning period with an income letter reflecting 36.09 per month in an annuity payment with an income letter from the British embassy and has been doing it since Barry Kenyon MBE sat in the big chair in Chomtien

 

 

I had a few words with my existing agent and she got terse with me stating that all countries have laws and I said I should respect Thai law. I said I did respect Thai law but I don't respect individual offices and officers making their own rules. 

 

I used Stat Dec(affidavit) last year and got the same this year. But taking into account the dropped exchange rate i came in at 63,600 baht per month or 763,258 baht. I have 50,000 in a fixed deposit account but I don't think would be accepted as it is security for a credit card. My every day account has over 60,000 at the moment but usually does not have a lot as I transfer from Oz as needed.

[Dazinoz]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is- missing number 5 for the combination option.

Oooops. You are right. maybe next time I should look over the page.

[notamember]

2 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I had a few words with my existing agent and she got terse with me stating that all countries have laws and I said I should respect Thai law. I said I did respect Thai law but I don't respect individual offices and officers making their own rules. 

 

I used Stat Dec(affidavit) last year and got the same this year. But taking into account the dropped exchange rate i came in at 63,600 baht per month or 763,258 baht. I have 50,000 in a fixed deposit account but I don't think would be accepted as it is security for a credit card. My every day account has over 60,000 at the moment but usually does not have a lot as I transfer from Oz as needed.

why do you have an existing agent?

if the letter covered 800,000 last year, why have someone do it for you?

''I don't think would be accepted as it is security for a credit card.''

you don't know until you ask

''My every day account has over 60,000 at the moment ''

so use that 763,258 baht + 60,000 baht = 800, 000 +

 

you want help and advise?

ditch the agent you do not need 

she sounds less than helpful

 

[Dazinoz]

1 minute ago, notamember said:

why do you have an existing agent?

if the letter covered 800,000 last year, why have someone do it for you?

''I don't think would be accepted as it is security for a credit card.''

you don't know until you ask

''My every day account has over 60,000 at the moment ''

so use that 763,258 baht + 60,000 baht = 800, 000 +

 

you want help and advise?

ditch the agent you do not need 

she sounds less than helpful

 

I have used an agent because 1. I am Lazy, 2. I hate waiting around.

 

But I think now I will do as you suggest.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I had a few words with my existing agent and she got terse with me stating that all countries have laws and I said I should respect Thai law. I said I did respect Thai law but I don't respect individual offices and officers making their own rules. 

 

I used Stat Dec(affidavit) last year and got the same this year. But taking into account the dropped exchange rate i came in at 63,600 baht per month or 763,258 baht. I have 50,000 in a fixed deposit account but I don't think would be accepted as it is security for a credit card. My every day account has over 60,000 at the moment but usually does not have a lot as I transfer from Oz as needed.

The 50k baht you have may be accepted by immigration unless the bank writes the letter to show it is held as collateral for a credit card.

[notamember]

3 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

I have used an agent because 1. I am Lazy, 2. I hate waiting around.

 

But I think now I will do as you suggest.

my work is done, i am out of here

[Dazinoz]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 50k baht you have may be accepted by immigration unless the bank writes the letter to show it is held as collateral for a credit card.

I will try.

 

[jmd8800]

If I am understanding this correctly: 1) if someone relies completely on 800,000 THB in the bank the money needs to be seasoned. 2) if someone relies on a combination of income and bank deposits in Thailand the money in the Thai bank does not need to be seasoned.

 

So the question is: If someone has an income of say $100 per month from outside of Thailand then the balance of the 800,000 THB could be money deposited in a Thai bank 'unseasoned'. Is this correct? Would interest income from foreign bank accounts count as income?

 

 

[ubonjoe]

18 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

If I am understanding this correctly: 1) if someone relies completely on 800,000 THB in the bank the money needs to be seasoned. 2) if someone relies on a combination of income and bank deposits in Thailand the money in the Thai bank does not need to be seasoned.

 

That correct according to written rules. But some offices want it to be in the bank for 3 months prior to the date of application,

18 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

So the question is: If someone has an income of say $100 per month from outside of Thailand then the balance of the 800,000 THB could be money deposited in a Thai bank 'unseasoned'. Is this correct? Would interest income from foreign bank accounts count as income?

That would be possible but that is the exact reason immigration has been telling people it has to be in the bank for 3 months. It is meant to be the reverse with income higher than the money in the bank.

Any income from outside the country can used to meet the income requirement.

[jmd8800]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

That correct according to written rules. But some offices want it to be in the bank for 3 months prior to the date of application,

That would be possible but that is the exact reason immigration has been telling people it has to be in the bank for 3 months. It is meant to be the reverse with income higher than the money in the bank.

Any income from outside the country can used to meet the income requirement.

Thanks for explaining this. This seemed like a pretty big loophole of the kind of thing that immigration is trying to address.

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, jmd8800 said:

Thanks for explaining this. This seemed like a pretty big loophole of the kind of thing that immigration is trying to address.

Immigration just saying that 3 months is needed is a little harsh and going overboard with. They should of said that the income had to be greater than the money in the bank instead. Or even a percentage had to be from income (80% for example) or it would have to be in the bank for 3 months.

[Dazinoz]

UPDATE:-

 

Visited an agent this morning that was recommended to me by a member on here.

 

Checked all my paperwork and, yes, my income as stated on my Stat Dec is insufficient at todays exchange rate. Short around 50k. My fixed deposit account of 50k can not be used because immigration requires that the letter issued by the bank states that the funds are used as a security deposit and hence not regarded as fluid. Checked my everyday account and I have sufficient funds but not seasoned for the three months. I then produced the police order I posted above (including point 5) and they said that is fine but Chiang Mai immigration require the 3 months. 

 

So we then discussed my options and I did hint at using one of the ones from another province that don't require deposit or income. The agent said that is ok to do but would need to do every year as, in their wisdom, Chiang Mai immigration have taken a dim view of this and then make future extensions difficult.  She made a point a few times that CM immigration were strict with everything. I asked about proof of income declared on the Stat Dec and she said that at the moment its only Americans that they asking that of. What have you naughty Americans been up to? 

 

Anyhow they asked me to leave all the paperwork and said they would check with immigration. They phoned me about 2 hours later and said they had talked to a "very nice" IO and if I wanted to proceed to come back immediately and do the paperwork. So I hope to have the appointment tomorrow and get same officer and hence my extension.

 

Will update tomorrow if anyone interested.

[jmd8800]

3 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

UPDATE:-

 

 

 

Will update tomorrow if anyone interested.

Are you kidding?  1/2 of Thaivisa Forums is interested.

 

Thanks for the valuable info.

[sirineou]

3 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

UPDATE:-

 

Visited an agent this morning that was recommended to me by a member on here.

 

Checked all my paperwork and, yes, my income as stated on my Stat Dec is insufficient at todays exchange rate. Short around 50k. My fixed deposit account of 50k can not be used because immigration requires that the letter issued by the bank states that the funds are used as a security deposit and hence not regarded as fluid. Checked my everyday account and I have sufficient funds but not seasoned for the three months. I then produced the police order I posted above (including point 5) and they said that is fine but Chiang Mai immigration require the 3 months. 

 

So we then discussed my options and I did hint at using one of the ones from another province that don't require deposit or income. The agent said that is ok to do but would need to do every year as, in their wisdom, Chiang Mai immigration have taken a dim view of this and then make future extensions difficult.  She made a point a few times that CM immigration were strict with everything. I asked about proof of income declared on the Stat Dec and she said that at the moment its only Americans that they asking that of. What have you naughty Americans been up to? 

 

Anyhow they asked me to leave all the paperwork and said they would check with immigration. They phoned me about 2 hours later and said they had talked to a "very nice" IO and if I wanted to proceed to come back immediately and do the paperwork. So I hope to have the appointment tomorrow and get same officer and hence my extension.

 

Will update tomorrow if anyone interested.

 best of Luck

[notamember]

15 hours ago, Dazinoz said:

UPDATE:-

 

Visited an agent this morning that was recommended to me by a member on here.

 

Checked all my paperwork and, yes, my income as stated on my Stat Dec is insufficient at todays exchange rate. Short around 50k. My fixed deposit account of 50k can not be used because immigration requires that the letter issued by the bank states that the funds are used as a security deposit and hence not regarded as fluid. Checked my everyday account and I have sufficient funds but not seasoned for the three months. I then produced the police order I posted above (including point 5) and they said that is fine but Chiang Mai immigration require the 3 months. 

 

So we then discussed my options and I did hint at using one of the ones from another province that don't require deposit or income. The agent said that is ok to do but would need to do every year as, in their wisdom, Chiang Mai immigration have taken a dim view of this and then make future extensions difficult.  She made a point a few times that CM immigration were strict with everything. I asked about proof of income declared on the Stat Dec and she said that at the moment its only Americans that they asking that of. What have you naughty Americans been up to? 

 

Anyhow they asked me to leave all the paperwork and said they would check with immigration. They phoned me about 2 hours later and said they had talked to a "very nice" IO and if I wanted to proceed to come back immediately and do the paperwork. So I hope to have the appointment tomorrow and get same officer and hence my extension.

 

Will update tomorrow if anyone interested.

how much is she charging you for her influence?

[Dazinoz]

38 minutes ago, notamember said:

how much is she charging you for her influence?

More than my last agent but a LOT less than I would if I went through one of the agents that don't need bank deposit or income proof. I am using this time because it might be the case of not what you know but who you know.

[notamember]

5 minutes ago, Dazinoz said:

More than my last agent but a LOT less than I would if I went through one of the agents that don't need bank deposit or income proof. I am using this time because it might be the case of not what you know but who you know.

so how much for her influence for you to use your own money/letter at CM?

from what you say i guess she is not loaning you 800,000 baht like the other agents?

Edited September 4, 2018 by notamember
spelling