CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[cusanus]

53 minutes ago, Dante99 said:

It does not seem that buying insurance is necessary.  Clearly the issue applies to only a small speicific group and there seem to be very easy alternatives to getting out of that group and into one without insurance requirements.

It's beginning to look that way. My sincere apologies to all who I've offended and for being so hysterical about the issue. 

[cusanus]

Clearly, my experiences are much different than those on the site and none of us are benefitting from my efforts. Oddly enough, a person cannot delete his/her account, so I'm kind of stuck here. If I'm wrong about that, too, please have a moderator delete the account; meanwhile, I'll end with the apology to all who may have been offended and try to keep out of it. Thanks.

[Hugh Jarse]

On 10/28/2019 at 1:42 PM, NancyL said:

You may want to wait until after November 1.  This week will be busy as people try to do their retirement extensions ahead of the October 31 deadline for health insurance.  

Went along last Thursday 31st Oct at 10.45 am and was first in the queue for an extension of stay based on marriage . Seen at 10.55am and application dealt with in c.35 mins. One minor glitch was I had a bank letter and banks statement from the day before but the passbook was not updated so had to re visit the bank. All in all a swift and courteous service without an agent. Well done to CNX Immigration.

[cnxnicho]

After receiving my extension the IO at CM made it clear that they will check the 3 months / 800K and 400K minimum next year, so make sure it does not dip below ! 

[EricTh]

8 hours ago, CMBob said:

That's what the new police order says but there have been visa agents running around saying that people with older O-A visas (ones which were issued years ago and have been annually extended based on retirement or marriage) would also have to comply with the long-stay health insurance requirements when they extended after October 31, 2019.  Yours is the first and only report (so far) that what the visa agents are proclaiming isn't true (however, likely we'll need many reports in the next month or two to hopefully confirm that no health insurance requirements are required for the prior O-A visa holders). 

 

Visa agents themselves are confused as to the new laws which is not surprising judging from the inexact definition of the requirement from immigration.

 

Judging from the posts in this forum, quite a lot of retirees have switched to visitor visa or went to other countries (Philippines, Vietnam) since July 2019 when the embassy letters were no longer accepted.

 

So you might have to wait quite a while for the other reports to come in but I don't think it will be different from mine.

 

By noon time that day, there were only around 10 people who applied for retirement visa judging from the queue number. This is a far cry from a few years ago in Promenada when more than 20 places were filled up quickly before 8 am in the morning.

[cnxnicho]

" but there have been visa agents running around saying that people with older O-A visas (ones which were issued years ago and have been annually extended based on retirement or marriage) would also have to comply with the long-stay health insurance requirements when they extended after October 31, 2019. "

 

Cannot think why visa agents would say that, umm any ideas !!

[Dante99]

9 hours ago, CMBob said:

but there have been visa agents running around saying that people with older O-A visas (ones which were issued years ago and have been annually extended based on retirement or marriage) would also have to comply with the long-stay health insurance requirements when they extended after October 31, 2019. 

The history of reports of what visa agents have said has shown that information is often unreliable.

[Momofarang]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:19 AM, cusanus said:

The spouse option is more hassle so don't do it if you don't have to. Well, that's what the IOs tell me. 

What the IOs tell you of course, as it is more work for them, and less open to corruption due to the two levels approval. My recommendation to all those who are in solid, "real", marriage would be to consider this option.

[Mapguy]

I have never in over 10 years had any Immigration officer question a fixed deposit of 800,000 that I have with Bangkok Bank which is automatically rolled over annually.  Present the updated book with the correlative bank letter, which I usually do the day before obtaining an extension of stay.  Now, of course, there is more than 800k in the account with accumulated interest.  I could withdraw the interest, if I wished, of course. I think a closer look will be taken if there is some play with the monthly limits.

 

Re taxes, the 15% tax on interest can be retrieved by application at the Department of Revenue Office.  But there is now a rather convoluted process involving Kassikorn Bank in order to get the cash.

 

By the way, if you are worried about emergency use if you are incapacitated, the Bangkok Bank (and probably others) will add a spouse (perhaps just another person) to the account as having permission to withdraw funds, and bank accounts should, of course, be noted in any will.  It is necessary for that person to accompany the account owner to the bank so that a signature can be added to the account.  This person is NOT a joint owner of the account.

 

[CharlieH]

A number of posts have been removed following an error being made in visa type.

The original post claiming information and procedure regarding insurance on an O-A visa was made in error has been removed along with any post referring to it or quoting it so as not to mislead.

The poster concerned had in fact an O visa. NOT an O-A.

 

 

 

Also, a number of other bickering posts have been removed.

 

7) You will respect fellow members and post in a civil manner. No personal attacks, hateful or insulting towards other members, (flaming) Stalking of members on either the forum or via PM will not be allowed.
 

[Dcheech]

Back at Chiang Mai Immigration to pick up re entry Visa. Wednesday arrived in line, 1401. Presented papers then shuffled off to desk 5 with ticket. Immediate service as no one was at desk. 

 

Out the door with a multiple Re Entry Visa at 1413.

[Sparkles]

20 hours ago, Mapguy said:

I have never in over 10 years had any Immigration officer question a fixed deposit of 800,000 that I have with Bangkok Bank which is automatically rolled over annually.  Present the updated book with the correlative bank letter, which I usually do the day before obtaining an extension of stay.  Now, of course, there is more than 800k in the account with accumulated interest.  I could withdraw the interest, if I wished, of course. I think a closer look will be taken if there is some play with the monthly limits.

 

Re taxes, the 15% tax on interest can be retrieved by application at the Department of Revenue Office.  But there is now a rather convoluted process involving Kassikorn Bank in order to get the cash.

 

By the way, if you are worried about emergency use if you are incapacitated, the Bangkok Bank (and probably others) will add a spouse (perhaps just another person) to the account as having permission to withdraw funds, and bank accounts should, of course, be noted in any will.  It is necessary for that person to accompany the account owner to the bank so that a signature can be added to the account.  This person is NOT a joint owner of the account.

 

I have the same situation but withdraw the interest earned each yearly term never letting the balance go below 800,000 baht. The tax refund I process through the Hang Dong Amphur tax department.

 

Last year instead of the usual cheque being sent I was advised that a new system was in play and the refund would be sent through to the Krunghthai Bank,which I believe is Government owned.

 

It gets paid into what is known as an E-Money account for which there is a "Promptcard".        The branch at Tesco on Hang Dong Rd had no cards available, knew nothing about it, but after talking to the Manager they contacted Bangkok head office and got a supply of cards through the following week. I previously had never had an account with that bank.

 

When the money was credited to me 2 weeks later I was just given cash with the card after filling out a simple form.

 

So a little messy but should be plain sailing in the future. While I the refund is a pittance like most Australians with a declining value of our Aus $ to the baht every little bit helps

[Mapguy]

Thank you, Charlie H.  Appreciate very much your monitoring information to delete really bad and incorrect posts, but that is very, very difficult to do.

 

I suggest, however, that the HUGE amount of outdated information and the multiple number of pages on this topic are very hard for people to dive into. Please exfoliate anything at least up to 2019. And I suggest strongly that the topic be relabeled to pertain JUST TO CHIANG MAI with reference upfront to other ThaiVisa topics that cover the country as a whole.  There are a couple of useful ones, as you know.

[TheFishman1]

I always mail inmy 90 day report just got it back on the bottom they wrote n Cr time include a TM47 what is that???

[TheAppletons]

11 hours ago, TheFishman1 said:

I always mail inmy 90 day report just got it back on the bottom they wrote n Cr time include a TM47 what is that???

The TM.47 is the form that one submits to file a 90 day report.  

[scottiejohn]

17 hours ago, Sparkles said:

The tax refund I process through the Hang Dong Amphur tax department.

If you don't already have one I suggest you go back to them, get your Tax number card, give that to your bank where your savings are and they should pay you your interest in full without taking the tax in future.

[Sparkles]

25 minutes ago, scottiejohn said:

If you don't already have one I suggest you go back to them, get your Tax number card, give that to your bank where your savings are and they should pay you your interest in full without taking the tax in future.

I mentioned that originally at my Bangkok Bank and the Amphur Office but that was a no go at the time. It was suggested recently that the Gov/Tax Dept prefer funds going through the Krungthai Bank.

Its no big deal for me just a trip close to where we live but thanks for tip

 

[Mapguy]

CM IMMIGRATION VISIT 7NOV2019

 

Today (Thursday afternoon) I visited Chiang Mai Immigration to gather more specific information in part to gather some information about requirements and documentation. I will post further information separately by type of visa. 

 

Today, in the late afternoon, the CM Office reported visitors as follows:

 

Today 1100+

Yesterday  1800+

This Week 10,856+

This Month  16,300+

 

Yes, it was busy at 15:00 on.  Near to closing the following queue call numbers were posted:

 

N     195

O        9  (Transfer)

S       93

T       84

RE     58  (Re-Entry)

R       (Retirement) All done for the day.  Do not know the daily quota, but there is a limit. 

 

A few codes that I recognize are noted. Some others can fill in the gaps.  Lots of 90-Day Reports and Visa extensions, I expect.  TM30s are done on the 3d floor, not handled in the main office.

 

Informally, the office was very active, if not evenly so for all needs.  The Information Desk was very busy, sometimes assisted by the commanding officer (an older woman) but usually staffed by three others (plus an intern).  One very experienced older officer fielded the most difficult questions.  He is the chief of the desk routinely.  Two more assistants were reasonably helpful but could not answer all questions.

 

Informally, listening in at the Information Desk revealed all sorts of fascinating situations and questions.  The officers sure have to field a broad variety of inquiries and problems!

 

As stated previously on this thread, the time of day, the day of the week, and days just prior to and immediately following holidays need to be considered before visiting.  Mornings tend to be busier, etc, etc. The season also matters.  This is the beginning of what is generally known as the "busy season" complicated by Loy Khratong and on the cusp of the WInter season.

[Mapguy]

NON-OA VISAS AND EXTENSIONS OF STAY (EFFECTIVE 1 NOV2019) IN CHIANG MAI

 

Implementation of new law and police orders is currently strict in CM Immigration.  Period.  End of story.  There might be major mitigation in the future — such as a “hold” on enforcement,” but no signs of that now.

 

The attached information from Chiang Mai obtained 7 November pertains to NI-OA visas whenever obtained and any extensions of permission to stay from 1 November 2019 onward "based" originally on that visa whenever obtained.  No "grandfather" clause.

 

This post is NOT based on a personal attempt to extend a permission of stay originally based upon a NON-OA visa. This information is provided after consulting with the commanding officer of Chiang Mai Immigration and the chief guru among the officers working there at the Information Desk.  The information sheet was provided by the veteran officer at the Information Desk.  You can obtain a copy of it there, if you wish.
 
There may be some current dispensation with individuals renewing new extensions of stay, such as time allowed to make necessary changes to comply with the new requirements like a 30-day period of grace within which to get your act together. That is speculative here. You’ll have to check that out. Let's hope there are further reports soon.

 

Also attached is a list of the approved TGIA insurance companies provided by CM Immigration.  it is only available in Thai, and I apologize that I have not yet taken time to translate it.  Note that 14 companies are listed.  When I last looked, not that many companies appeared on the site.  No explanation was given for that at CM Immigration.  (No reason for those officers to know, really.) This is certainly a reflection of inadequate insurance company preparation or marketing expertise, but that is not the topic in this post, nor is the reality of contacting these companies the topic here.  Nor is the worthwhile nature of these 40/400k policies.

 

So, for some, back to the planning board.  Good luck!

 

Chiang Mai Immigration Guidelines for Non-Immigrant (O-A) Extension.pdf Longstay.TGIA Accredited Health Insurance Companies 7NOV19.pdf

[deej]

Many thanks for your above report???? 

IMO.  Status quao remains

from posts  on TV .and my  own investigations etc etc

Your Grand Fathering comments  (2nd paragraph) on

retirement extensions is correct.  as no change  Or police order has been issued( requiring medical insurance)

til this point of time.

Business as usual for Retirement Extensions who hold current Non O visa is my summing up.

 

 

[Mapguy]

Anwa, no health insurance requirement with a NON-O (TGIA List or otherwise) as I understand it and confirmed by Chiang Mai Immigration. A NON-O may be granted abroad or by conversion from a tourist visa in Chiang Mai (at least 21 days remaining in its validity) in Chiang Mai). I will post the CM Immigration requirements (effective 7 November) soon.

 

I believe your AIA insurance is probably fine  on its own (and smart to have). You might double-check with your agent.

[Mapguy]

NON-O VISAS AND EXTENSIONS OF STAY (EFFECTIVE 1 NOV2019) IN CHIANG MAI

 

A NON-O visa may be obtained abroad or in Chiang Mai by conversion from a 60-Day tourist visa (obtained abroad).  For criteria abroad check the consulate where you wish to apply.  For Chiang Mai, the procedure and documents required are attached. This information was obtained from CM Immigration on 7 NOV 19.  It was previous amended (in ink) by CM Immigration and, I believe in reading it, has been followed by officers for some time.  For any further information, I suggest you contact CM Immigration directly or an agent, if that is your (expensive) preference.

 

I am guessing that any extension of permission to stay done thereafter would follow the same criteria currently used for an extension generated from a NON-OA visa, but without any health insurance requirement. That can be learned at the time of the conversion.NON-O Conversion Retirement 11:19.pdf

[Mapguy]

HOT NEWS!!

 

TGIA GUIDELINES POSTED VERY RECENTLY AND GUIDANCE FROM THE US CONSULATE THAILAND

 

Heretofore there has been an onerous requirement regarding the eligibility of foreign-based (non-TGIA-listed) companies to cover the health insurance requirement.  Here's the good news:
 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa

 

[See the long-stay TGIA web site for Thai companies listed]

 

The GOOD news for many is that valid health insurance underwritten by a foreign company satisfying coverage minimums is acceptable for up to one year.  After that, insurance must by purchased from a TGIA-listed company.

 

There does not seem to be any information available as to what constitutes appropriate documentation.  This might depend on CM Immigration rules.  My unconfirmed guess is that a certificate of insurance noting satisfactory 40IP/400OP minimums for the period needed would be sufficient.

 

There have been reports elsewhere that some Immigration offices are also accepting such coverage but only permitting stay in Thailand up to the expiration date of the policy in hand after which it would seem that a TGIA-listed accredited company policy must be presented in order to stay.  in Thailand.

 

Further good news is that a spouse not old enough (50 years of age) for a will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” visa. This does not require health insurance. Marriage license required.

 

As of this date, there are only 12 accredited companies listed on the TGIA site.  Two of the 14 companies apparently accredited [See list posted above] have not yet been listed.  Furthermore, there are numerous posts made on many media that the Thai Insurance companies are generally poorly geared up to sell policies and some are seriously deficient in the English language.  Anyone want to guess how many of such policies will have a legally-binding English translation?! 

 

Also note age limits to qualify for initial coverage and for renewability.

[Mapguy]

38 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

HOT NEWS!!

 

TGIA GUIDELINES POSTED VERY RECENTLY AND GUIDANCE FROM THE US CONSULATE THAILAND

 

Heretofore there has been an onerous requirement regarding the eligibility of foreign-based (non-TGIA-listed) companies to cover the health insurance requirement.  Here's the good news:
 

https://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineoa

 

[See the long-stay TGIA web site for Thai companies listed]

 

The GOOD news for many is that valid health insurance underwritten by a foreign company satisfying coverage minimums is acceptable for up to one year.  After that, insurance must by purchased from a TGIA-listed company.

 

There does not seem to be any information available as to what constitutes appropriate documentation.  This might depend on CM Immigration rules.  My unconfirmed guess is that a certificate of insurance noting satisfactory 40OP/400IP minimums for the period needed would be sufficient.

 

There have been reports elsewhere that some Immigration offices (and ports of entry) are also accepting such coverage but only permitting stay in Thailand up to the expiration date of the policy in hand after which it would seem that a TGIA-listed accredited company policy must be presented in order to stay in Thailand.  There have also been reports that expatriates arriving from overseas are also being allowed on the spot at Immigration to purchase TGIA-listed policies at Suvarnabhumi Airport.  How that would be practical is anyone's guess!

 

Further good news is that a spouse not old enough (50 years of age) for retirement will be considered for temporary stay under Category “O” requirements. This does not require health insurance. Marriage license required.  Other dependents are not yet mentioned.

 

As of this date, there are only 12 accredited companies listed on the TGIA site.  Two of the 14 companies apparently accredited [See list posted above] have not yet been listed.  Furthermore, there are numerous posts made on many media that the Thai Insurance companies are generally poorly geared up to sell policies and some are seriously deficient in the English language.  Anyone want to guess how many of such policies will have a legally-binding English translation?! 

 

Also note age limits to qualify for initial coverage and for renewability.

 

I do not know if the attached form is necessary from a foreign-held insurance company.  Seems impractical.

 

overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

[Mapguy]

Late edit to Post 1230 above with additional information:

 

 

Further information:

 

 

On 11/8/2019 at 4:21 PM, Sheryl said:

US citizens:

 

As mentioned I emailed the Embassy and much to my pleasant surprised received a very prompt response as follows:

 

"Sheryl,

 

 

Thank you very much for your email and this on-the-ground perspective.  Over the past six months, we have been engaging the Royal Thai government (RTG) to attempt to ensure that U.S. health insurance policies can be used to satisfy the new immigration requirement for health insurance for foreign retirees.  This advocacy was done by official Diplomatic Note, as well as during the recent RTG press conference announcing the policy.  During that event, the Consul General cited US veterans with TRICARE coverage specially as a population of concern in Thailand.  At least one other Embassy (the UK) cited concern as well.

 

 

The U.S. Embassy plans to continue our advocacy with the RTG regarding the option for U.S. citizens to use existing insurance – regardless of where that insurance is based – to meet the requirements.  We acknowledge there could be a difficult transition period as the Thai’s determine exactly how to implement the new health insurance requirement.  As you note, the language in the official police order is vague in some respects.  Therefore, we may have some room to navigate and improve on implementation. 

 

 

Ultimately, this is a Thai regulation and the Thai government is the final arbiter of how this regulation will be implemented.

 

 

Again, we will continue to engage with the RTP on this issue.

 

 

Respectfully,

 

 

ACS"

 

I again encourage others -- and not just Americans - to contact their Embassies as  it appears that they at least have the opportunity to engage in dialogue on the issue, which is a lot more than we do.

[TheAppletons]

17 hours ago, Mapguy said:

NON-O VISAS AND EXTENSIONS OF STAY (EFFECTIVE 1 NOV2019) IN CHIANG MAI

 

A NON-O visa may be obtained abroad or in Chiang Mai by conversion from a 60-Day tourist visa (obtained abroad).  For criteria abroad check the consulate where you wish to apply.  For Chiang Mai, the procedure and documents required are attached. This information was obtained from CM Immigration on 7 NOV 19.  It was previous amended (in ink) by CM Immigration and, I believe in reading it, has been followed by officers for some time.  For any further information, I suggest you contact CM Immigration directly or an agent, if that is your (expensive) preference.

 

I am guessing that any extension of permission to stay done thereafter would follow the same criteria currently used for an extension generated from a NON-OA visa, but without any health insurance requirement. That can be learned at the time of the conversion.NON-O Conversion Retirement 11:19.pdf

  Depends upon who you believe regarding extensions to non-Imm O-A visas.

 

  Some immigration offices are telling people who originally entered the country years ago on a non-Imm O-A visa, and who have been doing annual extensions for years from that visa at their local immigration office, that they will require Thai health insurance at their next extension.  

 

According to post #620 of the embedded thread below, (page 42 or so, it's a long thread), Chiang Mai Immigration has posted this sign:

 

 

 

[EricTh]

On 11/4/2019 at 6:28 PM, nichopaulcnx said:

After receiving my extension the IO at CM made it clear that they will check the 3 months / 800K and 400K minimum next year, so make sure it does not dip below ! 

Can you tell me which IO told you that because when I went for retirement extension this week, the IO at counter 8 (who is a middle-aged guy) didn't mention anything about this and maybe he might have forgotten.

[EricTh]

1 hour ago, TheAppletons said:

  

  Some immigration offices are telling people who originally entered the country years ago on a non-Imm O-A visa, and who have been doing annual extensions for years from that visa at their local immigration office, that they will require Thai health insurance at their next extension.  

 

 

You can't rely on some immigration officers because if you approach different officers, they might give you different answers. I was given different answers on TM30 in the past.

 

Regarding my own experience, I must apologize to everybody here because I didn't know there are two types of retirement visas (O and O-A), I always thought there is only one type of retirement visa.

 

Mine is an O-visa based on retirement and extended yearly. I got my extension after 1 Nov 2019 just this week.

 

So I can confirm based on my experience for O-visa based on retirement and extension, no health insurance is required.

 

The best is to wait for reports from the O-A visa holders based on retirement and extension to come in.

[TheAppletons]

56 minutes ago, EricTh said:

 

You can't rely on some immigration officers because if you approach different officers, they might give you different answers. I was given different answers on TM30 in the past.

 

Regarding my own experience, I must apologize to everybody here because I didn't know there are two types of retirement visas (O and O-A), I always thought there is only one type of retirement visa.

 

Mine is an O-visa based on retirement and extended yearly. I got my extension after 1 Nov 2019 just this week.

 

So I can confirm based on my experience for O-visa based on retirement and extension, no health insurance is required.

 

The best is to wait for reports from the O-A visa holders based on retirement and extension to come in.

See the sign that I attached in my post above - that's from the Chiang Mai Immigration Office, according to the person who originally posted it.

 

Also, I didn't say some "immigration officers", I said some immigration offices.

[CMBob]

46 minutes ago, EricTh said:

Can you tell me which IO told you that because when I went for retirement extension this week, the IO at counter 8 (who is a middle-aged guy) didn't mention anything about this and maybe he might have forgotten.

Presuming he could identify the given IO (which is unlikely at least by name), does it really matter?  You ought to know the rules by now and should expect that, at your next annual extension, they'll be checking to see that you maintained minimums of 800k baht for 3 months after your prior application date, 800k for 2 months prior to your next application date, and 400k for all the other months.