Merkel calls for European solidarity to tackle illegal migration

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Don't know about 'ignored', but obviously underestimated the potential impact on the EU. However, back in 2013 Germany had already commenced an intake of Syrian refugees, approx 12,000. Haven't looked up the specific funding shortfalls in the period 2011 - 2015, but even today donor funding requests by the UN for Syrian refugees is still massively underfunded.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-funding/u-n-warns-of-critical-gap-in-syrian-refugee-aid-this-year-idUSKCN1IW220

 

On the upside Germany is in the top five counties for annual UNHCR funding, as is the EU.

 

 

 

 

 

Fair enough. My view is that while laying it all on Merkel is bogus and obviously politically motivated, the same goes for exempting her from responsibility. Like it or not, she was a major driving force in shaping Europe's response (for better and worse) to the crisis.

[roobaa01]

the same mantramerkel, junker etc.. have been voicing for several years without results as simple minds and talking heads produce only red tape. the real world displays italy, austria, hungaria, denmark, sweden, poland, slovakia, czech republic, slovenja, croatia closing its borders. the political tide is changing like in sweden on the 9.9.18 where now the failed red green policy was voted out .

 

wbr

roobaa01

[transam]

Bit late init...?  

[simple1]

1 minute ago, Morch said:

 

Fair enough. My view is that while laying it all on Merkel is bogus and obviously politically motivated, the same goes for exempting her from responsibility. Like it or not, she was a major driving force in shaping Europe's response (for better and worse) to the crisis.

Personally I am trying to put matters into perspective with as you say 'bogus' efforts for total blame. not trying to whitewash Merkel. Merkel has admitted her judgement was at fault politically with permitting the wave through for Syrian asylum seeker and some other refugee policy matters.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/angela-merkel-refugees-germany-lost-control-crisis-would-turn-back-time-a7320726.html

[billd766]

20 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The suggestion is not ‘tell[ing] the whole of the EU to fling the doors open’.

 

You made that accusation up (AKA you told a porkie).

 

Look up these links and make your own mind up.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/12193876/Angela-Merkels-historic-error-on-immigration.html

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-German-Counselor-Angela-Merkel-invite-a-million-immigrants-to-live-in-Germany

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugee-policy-of-chancellor-merkel-divides-europe-a-1053603.html

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/912583/Angela-Merkel-open-door-refugee-policy-Germany-news-greece-bailout-europe-migrant-crisis

 

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-10/angela-merkel-influence-refugees-open-borders-balkan-route

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/29/angela-merkel-refugee-crisis-drown

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Look up these links and make your own mind up.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/12193876/Angela-Merkels-historic-error-on-immigration.html

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-German-Counselor-Angela-Merkel-invite-a-million-immigrants-to-live-in-Germany

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugee-policy-of-chancellor-merkel-divides-europe-a-1053603.html

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/912583/Angela-Merkel-open-door-refugee-policy-Germany-news-greece-bailout-europe-migrant-crisis

 

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-10/angela-merkel-influence-refugees-open-borders-balkan-route

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/29/angela-merkel-refugee-crisis-drown

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

Non have anything to do with the subject of the OP and Merkel’s call for a EU wide response to illegal immigration.

 

Read the OP.

Edited September 13, 2018 by Chomper Higgot

[welovesundaysatspace]

21 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Look up these links and make your own mind up.

Nowhere does any of the articles provide any evidence that Merkel invited anyone or opened doors for anyone. There are international laws, and you have to abide them even if you don’t like it. If anyone opened any doors then it’s the people and countries who decided those laws, but then those laws are there for a reason, and Europeans/Germans should know these reasons best. It’s disgusting to see people from countries that have started wars and/or been subject to it complain when their countries provide the same help to others that their fellow countrymen received before. 

Edited September 13, 2018 by welovesundaysatspace

[Chomper Higgot]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Nowhere does any of the articles provide any evidence that Merkel invited anyone or opened doors for anyone. There are international laws, and you have to abide them even if you don’t like it. If anyone opened any doors then it’s the people and countries who decided those laws, but then those laws are there for a reason, and Europeans/Germans should know these reasons best. It’s disgusting to see people from countries that have started wars and/or been subject to it complain when their countries provide the same help to others that their fellow countrymen received before. 

What those ranting against the decisions Merkel fail to address is, it was not Merkel that created the refugee exodus, it was not Merkel that drove the refugees towards Europe, leaving these people stranded on the borders was not an option that was without consequences.

[Morch]

29 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What those ranting against the decisions Merkel fail to address is, it was not Merkel that created the refugee exodus, it was not Merkel that drove the refugees towards Europe, leaving these people stranded on the borders was not an option that was without consequences.

 

There were consequences either way. Some would say that the consequences of letting the refugees/migrants/asylum seekers/whatever in were bad as well. Weighing the consequences of either choice is probably something people see differently, based on how they were effected and/or on their political views.

 

And then there could be differing views as to how things were actually handled, which I think even Merkel wouldn't describe as optimal (to put it mildly).

 

In more ways than one, this crisis yet again showed that the EU is not quite "there" when it comes to unity, cooperation and coordination. And from another angle, demonstrated why such are needed. Whether this will be utilized to promote the idea of the EU or as a tool to disrupt it, is a good question. Right now, naysayers are more vocal - but hard to say this represents a coherent majority as far as all issues and problems related to the EU are concerned.

 

 

[citybiker]

Merkel's arrogant autocratic leadership may also be her downfall.

Requesting for solidarity from being the root cause (Germany specific) is laughable.

Despite the domino affect, appears to be ignorance & denial by default.

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[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Look up these links and make your own mind up.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/angela-merkel/12193876/Angela-Merkels-historic-error-on-immigration.html

 

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-German-Counselor-Angela-Merkel-invite-a-million-immigrants-to-live-in-Germany

 

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/refugee-policy-of-chancellor-merkel-divides-europe-a-1053603.html

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/912583/Angela-Merkel-open-door-refugee-policy-Germany-news-greece-bailout-europe-migrant-crisis

 

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-10/angela-merkel-influence-refugees-open-borders-balkan-route

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/29/angela-merkel-refugee-crisis-drown

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/angela-merkel-defends-open-border-migration-refugee-policy-germany/

The problem arose (IMO) because, Merkel's 'refugee' policy failed to distinguish between genuine refugees and illegal/economic immigrants - BEFORE allowing them into eu countries.

[metisdead]

Posts containing unattributed content have been removed as being in violation of fair use policy. If you do not post a link to substantiate your claims your posts will be removed.

[simple1]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

The problem arose (IMO) because, Merkel's 'refugee' policy failed to distinguish between genuine refugees and illegal/economic immigrants - BEFORE allowing them into eu countries.

Suggest you research the Dublin Regulation and why the rules were not enforced by EU countries with external borders in 2015, before solely blaming Merkel. Dubs Amendment may also be of interest

[puck2]

OMG, please start raining brains in this thread (somebody said once, when many biased preconceptions have been published).

 

Why do I say this? With a few (positive) exceptions nearly all writers are not blessed with some knowledge, but full of biased opinions (against Merkel).

 

I miss in the statement of the OP that the reason for Merkel's „call“ was the failure of the Dublin Regulation. III. Please read and understand it, before writing stupid comments again.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

 

<----------->

One of the principal aims of the Dublin Regulation is to prevent an applicant from submitting applications in multiple Member States. Another aim is to reduce the number of "orbiting" asylum seekers, who are shuttled from member state to member state. The country in which the asylum seeker first applies for asylum is responsible for either accepting or rejecting the claim, and the seeker may not restart the process in another jurisdiction.

-<------->

 

The general rule was „the first Member State where finger prints are stored or an asylum claim is lodged is responsible for a person's asylum claim.“

 

If this regulation would have been implemented according to the European concept then especially the Mediterranean states (Greece. Italy, Spain etc) would have been hit seriously, not able to deal with the big number. Following this Dublin Regulation, Germany nearly would be free of refugees. It was Merkel/Germay breaking this Regulation by accommodating the overwhelming number of refugees, for whatever reason.

 

But nearly all EU members broke the Dublin Regulation, too. They refused to accept their part of refugees documented in this Regulation. (Main exception Sweden). Now the blind posters in this threat would like to tell me/us the opposite of „pacta sunt servanda“ (agreements must be kept).

 

Maybe (and I doubt maybe) some posters will recognize now Merkel didn't do it in her or Germany's interest (alone). Surely, Merkel was not free of mistakes in the refugee problem. That she recognized now there should be a tougher attitude against refugees/migrants is a reaction to her former mistake, but also an idea for a good and fair regulation.

 

The problem in the EU seems to be solidarity = working together when it concerns responsibility (and not egoism like financial interest).

 

From an objective viewpoint, the refugees belong to all those states who started/fabricated/participated in the Iraq War (the Vietnamese would say: the American war). Wasn't Britain also a member ??? (And Merkel not).

[Retiredandhappyhere]

So, Mrs Merkel, having created the problem, now says that countries with external borders MUST give up some of their NATIONAL responsibilities.  The EU is now the MERKEL and MACRON show, although both are treading water just now.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 hours ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

So, Mrs Merkel, having created the problem

Utter nonsense. 

[ivor bigun]

The article is dated 2015. At the time Merkel was endeavouring to assist an EU fellow member, Greece, who were totally overwhelmed and could no longer apply the 1990 Dublin Protocol. Merkel only offered waive through for Syrian asylum seekers, but EU external border countries also permitted travel North for North Africans, Afghans etc. It is a fact that Syrian asylum seekers / refugees have committed a far lower rate of crime in Germany than other asylum seekers and German nationals.
 
As mentioned before the huge numbers of people seeking refuge in the EU were on the road prior to Merkel's offer. Additionally the UN had warned funding for hosting asylum seekers in countries such as Turkey and Lebanon was completely insufficient and a considerable push factor; the warnings were largely ignored.

Oh well if the Guardian says it ,it must be true,by the way how are they doing with the begging bowl,must be hard having so few readers

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[citybiker]

Utter nonsense. 

If that’s so, care to prove it?


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[The manic]

On 9/12/2018 at 11:16 AM, welovesundaysatspace said:

Oh, then please provide evidence for that. And before that, start with providing evidence for the claim that she invited someone. Truth is: there’s none. Just the typical right-wing lies blaming a scapegoat. 

Are you suggesting she did not invite a million so called immigrants to come to Europe?

[simple1]

54 minutes ago, The manic said:

Are you suggesting she did not invite a million so called immigrants to come to Europe?

I for one am. For a start the massive asylum seeker flow into EU had commenced well before Merkel comments which were in effect offering assistance to overwhelmed EU member external border facing countries. All asylum seekers under international law are entitled to seek sanctuary, but subjected to vetting for refugee status, by countries which have the necessary legal protection, policies and processing capability. Back in 2014 / 2015 a number of host countries, including Turkey, did not. It should be mentioned that Merkel has since admitted errors of judgement in that Germany was unprepared with sufficient infrastructure / resources, but at least contributed to mitigating an humanitarian disaster in places such as Greece and Hungary. However good idea to put some effort into your own research. e.g....

 

https://www.zeit.de/politik/ausland/2016-10/angela-merkel-influence-refugees-open-borders-balkan-route

Edited September 18, 2018 by simple1

[welovesundaysatspace]

3 hours ago, citybiker said:

If that’s so, care to prove it?

Ask the person who made the accusation. 

 

2 hours ago, The manic said:

Are you suggesting she did not invite a million so called immigrants to come to Europe?

I asked for evidence for the accusation. 

[DM07]

On 9/12/2018 at 4:25 PM, RickBradford said:

Merkel's notion of "solidarity" translates as "Shut up and do what we say."

No it doesn't!

It just states, that the EU SHOULD be more, than an economical construct, but also a community of values!

And "values" not in the sense of "how much gain and profit can I make", but as in "help people in need" and "take a fair share of the burden"!

 

[DrTuner]

The turncoat of the millenia, just a few years back she was happy to let half of Africa and middle East to Germany to be exploited as a low cost workforce. Too bad they didn't want to work so the cunning plan backfired and now they've got a permanent problem.

[DM07]

On 9/14/2018 at 10:14 PM, Retiredandhappyhere said:

So, Mrs Merkel, having created the problem, now says that countries with external borders MUST give up some of their NATIONAL responsibilities.  The EU is now the MERKEL and MACRON show, although both are treading water just now.

The problem was created long before Merckel even took office!

Africas countries have been ripped off, robbed of their resources, been made place for powergames etc. for decades!

Everybody who came and went left the place in more chaos then before.

Military leaders drew borders with a pencil and a ruler, not giving a #$@% for the needs, ethnicities etc of the people living in African countries.

We (as in the Western and industrialized nations, Europe, USA...) used Africa as our economical and political playground!

We want all the money and the benefits and the jobs, that our (still) imperialistic policies bring, but we want nothing of the dirt!

If there is another starvation crisis, we send a few bucks and wash our hands in the water of innocence!

We shake our heads for a little while, when we see pictures out of Dafour (still a grade A humanitarian crisis) on the News and wonder "why the Africans won't get it together" and do not even grasp, that we are (at least partly...big partly...) responsible for a lot of the suffering that is going on!

"We" are not only responsible for the wars in Syria or Yemen- we are also responsible for people, who are not able to make a simple living!

Economic migrants don't fall out of the sky!

They don't plan their immigration like you and I plan our holiday!

Refugees just don't pop up like mushrooms or appear out of thin air!

"We" created them and the problem, some of us now don't want to have nothing to do with!

This is not a German problem...even less a Merckel- problem!   

[welovesundaysatspace]

19 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

The turncoat of the millenia, just a few years back she was happy to let half of Africa and middle East to Germany to be exploited as a low cost workforce. Too bad they didn't want to work so the cunning plan backfired and now they've got a permanent problem.

And yet another lie of the far-right lacking any evidence. 

[ivor bigun]

The problem was created long before Merckel even took office!
Africas countries have been ripped off, robbed of their resources, been made place for powergames etc. for decades!
Everybody who came and went left the place in more chaos then before.
Military leaders drew borders with a pencil and a ruler, not giving a #$@% for the needs, ethnicities etc of the people living in African countries.
We (as in the Western and industrialized nations, Europe, USA...) used Africa as our economical and political playground!
We want all the money and the benefits and the jobs, that our (still) imperialistic policies bring, but we want nothing of the dirt!
If there is another starvation crisis, we send a few bucks and wash our hands in the water of innocence!
We shake our heads for a little while, when we see pictures out of Dafour (still a grade A humanitarian crisis) on the News and wonder "why the Africans won't get it together" and do not even grasp, that we are (at least partly...big partly...) responsible for a lot of the suffering that is going on!
"We" are not only responsible for the wars in Syria or Yemen- we are also responsible for people, who are not able to make a simple living!
Economic migrants don't fall out of the sky!
They don't plan their immigration like you and I plan our holiday!
Refugees just don't pop up like mushrooms or appear out of thin air!
"We" created them and the problem, some of us now don't want to have nothing to do with!
This is not a German problem...even less a Merckel- problem!   

Always the big bad west , never the fault of the poor Africans. If their country was such a treasure trove wht didnt they exploit it and have their own industrial revolution and work hard to achieve what we in the west achieved without those recources?

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[DM07]

16 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Always the big bad west , never the fault of the poor Africans. If their country was such a treasure trove wht didnt they exploit it and have their own industrial revolution and work hard to achieve what we in the west achieved without those recources?

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Here is one reason for you, buddy: gun beats spear!

Among a lot of other things!

Read a history book! Maybe your children (poor things, if you have them) have one from their elementary school!

 

Edited September 19, 2018 by DM07

[transam]

3 minutes ago, DM07 said:

Here is one reason for you, buddy: gun beats spear!

Among a lot of other things!

Read a history book! Maybe your children (poor things, if you have them) have one from their elementary school!

 

In the 1950/60's at school there was no mention of WW1 or 2....Never understood that...?

[citybiker]

I asked for evidence for the accusation. 

You dismissed it without evidence.


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[metisdead]

On 9/13/2018 at 2:56 PM, metisdead said:

Posts containing unattributed content have been removed as being in violation of fair use policy. If you do not post a link to substantiate your claims your posts will be removed.

 

Another post containing unattributed content has been removed. 

 

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed.